“Keep” At no time in their life or any of their ancestors, did these guys live in an all white New England. These people are effed up

It was never all white but it was over 95% white until the last few decades. Even in 2020 the state is 92% non Hispanic white.

Their banner read New England.

That is one shit hobby.

When the first European settlers arrived it was 99% indigenous people.

All the normal disclaimers: bad things are bad. Being hateful isnt good. Dont do bad things.

That being said, these people are being charged with some form of hate crime, but not because they simply had the signs, its because they "trespassed" when they hung the sign on the highway. Allegedly, the reason they're being charged is because they didn't have a permit to hang the sign.

All the times ive seen cups smashed into overpass fencing, making words, those all had permits? Every "welcome home So and So" sign tied to the bridges? Everyone else always has permits? Are these permits "shall issue" and no one is allowed to deny you, but you still have to apply? Up until i heard about this case, i thought that anyone could just use those areas as a personal canvas.

I know its "evil hateful monsters" being " finally taught a lesson " but just imagine these people were protesting in favor of equality. What if the sign said "Make New England Diverse " ( considering NH is 60-80% Caucasian) would the townspeople still complain and get this group arrested for trespassing as a hate crime? It still meets all the prerequisites.

On a technical basis, they weren't even trespassing. Trespassing requires you to be somewhere that you arent allowed and refusing to vacate that area after being informed of such. Theyre allowed to be on the overpass. They can protest on the overpass with the message they were spreading. Where the govt says they "broke the law" was the hanging of the signs on the overpass without a permit. That sounds like a vandalism charge, not trespassing. However, a vandalism charge wouldnt seem reasonable if it would take 10 minutes and some scissors to cut down a couple zip ties or strings, so the sign wouldve had to be more permanent like graffiti to warrant that type of charge.

Regardless of the message spread, they shouldve been given the opportunity to remove the signs without issue. From what I can find, they werent given a lawful order to leave or remove the signs before the arrest. In fact, an article from Seacoastonline says that the group "'dispersed without any real confrontation' after speaking to police the night of the incident ".

While today its evil racists being brought to justice, tomorrow that same law and line of thinking can be used against any one of our political, social, economic, etc. opinions.

"Basket of deplorables" hahaha even their lawyers recognize they're pieces of shit

I don’t want to come off as I agree with this guys sentiments or values. Im just saying that New England was super white overall until the 80s.

That’s a lot of effort to defend absolute scumbags like these guys 🤔

These guys are garbage to be sure.

I'd expect that any group affixing a banner to an overpass in this manner with the sentiment "Make New England <insert group>-er" would get the exact same treatment.

The more they promote fascism, the more brown babies I will have just to spite them.

Because the principle is worth defending for the benefit of ALL of us. As i said in the lower portions of my statement, today its these people. Tomorrow it could be Sununu banning all Black Lives Matter protests because they're trespassing on city property without permission. Or Anti War protestors, Second Amendment supporters, Second Amendment detractors.

I dont care what the opinion expressed is or if i agree or disagree with what they say or do. Your speech is protected and needs to remain as such. One day, people that we disagree with will be in power; and if they can restrict where or when or what you can say, you wont be happy.

You dont do the right thing because its popular. You do the right thing, especially when everyone else doesnt want you to, because its the right thing to do. These guys may have done things with their speech that i disagree with and detest, but that doesn't mean we go and do the wrong things to them. It is specifically how we treat those we disagree with, that defines our character.

Agreed. The precedence which now has been created here could be used in the future.

Huh. Do we have to charge everyone who hangs signs from overpass fences with trespass now? I don't like what they did, but what kind of precedent does this start?

When you "well akshully" for white supremacists, it makes you look like one. At least comes off as sympathetic.

He's not unreasonable- separating the scumbag from the act is important. He brings up a lot of valid points that this is a dangerous precedent to set.

If the sign said make new england diverse, or some other message that we might agree with, would you still expect them to be charged? I wouldn't, and I firmly believe the law should apply to all acts equally, regardless of message. I find these guys detestable. But if we wouldn't charge someone with a message encouraging diversity, we shouldn't charge someone for a message discouraging it. It crosses into a first amendment issue that I'm not ok crossing into personally.

If you are doing something in protest you do so with the knowledge that you could always be arrested for your actions- dumb ass people that throw soup on painting for climate action get arrested- even if there is glass protecting it and it can just be mopped up - why shouldn't racists?

It's not a blank canvas - police don't want anyone putting stuff up on overpasses, especially those stupid cups, that is why there are laws. Any other person who did that without a permit should also be fined or arrested because it is a danger to safety if these things blow away into the windshields of oncoming traffic. That's why they have permits. It just isn't in the newspaper when those violators are fined or arrested because they aren't racists. This isn't infringing on anyone's rights. He did something stupid and bigoted. We should absolutely not let him get away with it.

To be clear, trespassing is the unlawful entry on to the land of another or the unlawful propelling of objects or other persons on to the property of another.

Hanging signs on the property of another without permission is trespassing.

While I believe that every person deserves the right to a full throated legal defense I am not super surprised they are having trouble finding counsel. The legal community in NH is pretty small and no one wants to become known in Fascist circles as the go to lawyer but someone will pop up to take it.

Remember, no one is willing to take the case for the amount of money they are willing to pay...yet.

Why even try to understand these white nazis, though? It’s so indulgent, and so disrespectful to the state/region/country. Aren’t we better than this?

Because the idea that we’re a melting pot is a super new phenomenon and to understand that is necessary to know why these sentiments and movements spring up.

No, we obviously don't. You must be able to make the distinction of why this particular act was offensive versus someone hanging an overpass sign about donating blood or not drunk driving without permission.

The issue here is the disgusting thing that they were promoting, the easiest thing for them to be charged with was trespass in the situation. But you must be smart enough to realize the issue is not that they were there but what they were promoting. Come on.

You are giving these young white dudes cover. This isn’t someone’s 98 year old grandpa who never left the state and may have an opportunity to learn something about people that don’t look like him. These are men who had to have been exposed to plenty of black and brown folks in their life, and STILL choose to see this as grievance. They are beyond redemption.

I wonder why lol

Not “everyone”. I think we can thwart literal white supremacy nazis with the legal process. Seems the very least we can do.

Damn I hope the government doesn't abuse their power on me the next time I do nazi shit.

If that were the issue then the charges need to relate to that. The problem is that's likely covered under free speach.

As it stands they are charged with trespassing. If they are found guilty then that sets a precedent where anyone who attaches a sign to an overpass fence is guilty of trespassing.

If they were found guilty of hate speach then that would be a different story.

That's not how precedent works though....

My mom always said, “Have lots of kids! Outbreed the stupid people!”

Here we go.

I would be fine with that. We don’t need signs on overpass fences and maybe if they didn’t want to get an escalator for hate speech, they should stop using hate speech.

... How much more are you going to write in defense of neo nazis?

Where are we going?

Gotta love the white supremacist apologists in this thread.

The Land of Tears

How do we get there?

You need permission from the city or state to hang a banner or sign from an overpass, that permission can be issued retroactively

By giving ear to every entitled Oppression Olympian. It's a magical place where no one is real but you.

Oh so it’s the imaginary place that white nationalists live where people believe that white christian conservatives are oppressed?

Wouldn't know.

Look around, it can't be done.

> "We agreed to take the case because apparently, no members of the New Hampshire Bar are willing to do so, likely out of fear that if they enter an appearance as local counsel, they'll be tossed into a basket of deplorables."

Partisan code phrasing. At least they know which party aligns with neo Nazis.

They could have taken the high road and said our system of justice guarantees everyone representation but they went with Republican solidarity instead.

Good people on both sides, right?

Free speech is illegal!

I remember an ACLU that defended the rights of actual Nazis. Bigger decisions should be made with your head not your heart. BTW Nazis suck, but they have rights too.

Not with that attitude!

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Oh we're forgetting the indigenous population that just got killed off by disease, warfare or just driven out. Yeah it was always white

Since that part of the continent has been a part of what is now known as the United States it’s been very white.

I'm thinking of the veterans signs actually you dick. The sign over the highway I pass every day with a heart for someone's loved one. The ones for some kid who died in Manchester and are all over the overpasses. Get over yourself. What a joke.

What I love is that they call themselves fascist but they take offense when you call them fascist.

I have as much contempt for these chuds as anyone, but this whole thing about local counsel only absolutely stinks. The crime took place about ten miles from the MA border. Those MA attorneys are local attorneys. Spare me the provincial BS: everyone in Portsmouth these days is from out of state too. The MA attorneys probably grew up closer to Portsmouth than any attorney with an office in Portsmouth. The latter are all from the NYC area, I guarantee it.

It’s not inconceivable to me that they can’t find a lawyer in such a small state who will take their case. Have any of you tried to hire any skilled labor recently? It’s fucking impossible. NH: No Hurry. I’m imagining my experience trying to find a contractor worth a damn with my freedom on the line instead, and that’s some nightmare fuel right there…

Unlike these Nazis, I think human rights are inherent and inviolable. Even these scumbags have a right to an attorney. If we deny them that right, we are letting their degeneracy degrade us further as a society. Personally, I find the parallel arguments for hate speech to be severely lacking, as words can be violence (ex: death threats), but even Nazis have human rights.

If you disagree, consider the most famous Nietzsche quote:

> Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Does anyone go around hanging signs on overpasses thinking “yes, this is perfectly legal in within my rights”? I don’t think so. They do it anyway. And if someone wants to make a stink about it, they will. If I happened upon that banner and decided to take it down, I know I might be wrong in “precedent”, but I could face the music. Or if I happened upon it and decided to cover it with a BLM or Pride or NH Fisher Cats Banner, I might do it and feel justified, but I might have to face the music for that, too. That’s life in public.

People who do the "both sides" or "slippery slope" argument when it comes to combatting racism are functionally defending and preserving the racism. Here you are equivocating racism to peaceful protests. That's insane.

The fuck is wrong with you?

Um, wut?

Yes, AND?

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What makes you think I would ever have a child outside of marriage? What makes you think my relatives would accept the idea of someone in the family having a child outside of marriage?

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They’re pieces of shit, that goes without saying, but these charges seem wicked flimsy

Haha

You’re the type of person they’ll look to to justify their beliefs. You’re acting as if New England has been some multicultural mecca for its existence when that’s not the case. You’re willfully distorting reality. They dig in further.

Boo hoo, poor little white supremacists can't find a lawyer willing to represent diahrea people.

"Acshually, I don't see what is wrong with defending free speech."

goosesteps away

They aren't defending those scum, they are highlighting the fact that the context changed how the law was applied, giving examples.

You may have missed that before you commented but they are defending all of us.

She was right!

If they did trespass while hanging that sign, find them guilty of trespassing.

But adding a charge for the content of their sign is wrong, IMO, even if it is despicable. This is a road we as a country should not go down.

I think there is a lot of ground between “multicultural mecca” and white supremacy. I think most normal and sane NH and New England and American folks are on that ground and can understand it and appreciate it and respect it. White nationalist nazis can’t. And the reason they can’t isn’t because of demographics. It’s because of fear, ignorance, and anger.

????

Making New England diverse isn’t quite in the same realm at hate charges, but cool straw man. It’s not lost on me all the ones rallying for these racists “rights” are right wingers.

> It’s not lost on me all the ones rallying for these racists “rights” are right wingers.

Feel free to review my post history- literally the only thing I align with the right on is the 2nd amendment- everything else I'm somewhere in the ballpark of Bernie.

Again- separate the message from the act. The act has to be illegal, and if it is, it should be illegal for everyone, not just the people who you agree with. A message in and of itself should not be illegal, nor should the message be the determining factor if an otherwise legal act suddenly becomes illegal.

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Lock them up for life. We don’t need this rot in our state.

The outbreeders ARE the stupid people.

lol - the lawyers aren't public defenders.

They likely have enough assets that they don't qualify for one and I don't blame lawyers in NH not taking the case unless they put up 5k-10k in a retainer fee.

I don't understand why you got down voted so hard. Were you agreeing with them?

Yup you’re right the law must be applied equally, obviously. These people are just fueled by emotion and don’t think of the consequences

Yup you’re right the law must be applied equally, obviously. These people are just fueled by emotion and don’t think of the consequences

Reddit makes no sense. The replies are petty as well. They didn't agree with any sentiment but simply said NH is mostly white. Somehow thats disagreeable

We need a list similar to the sex offender registry for these awful right wing racists.

Surprised they got caught.

Why don't they just take a plea?

Lol. You’re stupid if you want to bring a kid into this world.

NH is mostly white but that does not explain why a NH Alt Right Nazi group would hang such a banner. It’s hairsplitting to give some kid of cover, and it makes no sense.

The person simply said NH is mostly white and then got down voted while receiving rude and off base responses. It They weren't making an explanation for why the banner was posted. We all now why. Because they're racist.

The follow up comments were problematic, IMO. It’s not “simply” explaining anything.

> They likely have enough assets that they don't qualify for one

I always thought that was shit. If the state is going to charge you they should have to figure out your defense if you don't want to pay for it. Better yet, a loser pays system.

Yeah. I hate having to sound like running cover for these assholes, but a hate multiplier, if it should even exist at all, should be reserved for "real" crimes, not stupid crap like trespassing (via affixing a banner - shouldn't that be closer to vandalism anyways?). Having a system like this allows speech/expression to be penalized indirectly. We all know if they hung a BLM banner or a "Welcome back Lieutenant So and So" no one would give a shit.

Yup. 100%.

Punishing the content of a message is not a road anyone who gives a shit about freedom of speech wants to go down.

Yes, they should face the penalty that anyone hanging ANY sign off the overpass would face. Not a special penalty for the content of the sign.

Hate speech shouldn't be a thing. Also, they could argue that Keep New England White is a policy position not hate speech.

> The issue here is the disgusting thing that they were promoting, the easiest thing for them to be charged with was trespass in the situation. But you must be smart enough to realize the issue is not that they were there but what they were promoting.

Right, and that's the problem libertarian types like me have with the whole thing. Would someone hanging a sign that said Make New England More Diverse be on the hook for $15,000 for trespassing? If no, then this violates the 1st amendment.

I'll defend freedom of speech, even for these assholes.

Exactly. Time to get all of them in trouble just to make a point of it.

As far as I'm concerned anyone who keeps downvoting well thought out comments like yours should get the fuck out of NH. They bitch and moan about The Free State Project, but if the alternative is plebbit authoritarian fucks, then I support replacing the entire NH population with Free Staters.

> It crosses into a first amendment issue that I'm not ok crossing into personally.

Exactly. Defending rights means defending scumbags sometimes. People who can't separate principle from circumstances should not be voting.

> Making New England diverse isn’t quite in the same realm at hate charges

If it undermines the lives of people already living here I could claim it's hateful. Hate speech isn't a thing in the U.S. and that's a good thing. Punishing the content of a message is a 1st amendment violation straight up.

When the pendulum swings the other way, these dicks will be the first ones to complain. Why have standards when you can have double standards?

> Hanging signs on the property of another without permission is trespassing.

In one sense the overpasses are owned by all of us. What should have happened is the cops show up and say "take that down." They take it down, and then everyone goes home.

Of all the takes I’ve heard on the internet… this is certainly one of the worst.

> It just isn't in the newspaper when those violators are fined or arrested because they aren't racists.

I doubt that, but it's possible. The case should be simple then - whatever the charge for trespassing is without any kind of a hate multiplier - same as anyone making overpass fence text out of red plastic cups would get.

> Hate speech shouldn't be a thing.

A solidly good take.

> Also, they could argue that Keep New England White is a policy position not hate speech.

A weak take, but it's true. Let in More Mexicans / Let in Less Mexicans are policy positions. Are they hateful?

If you break the law, you break the law. If he broke hate crime laws, the state should prosecute.

Keep New England white = xenophobic
Minimize immigration = policy position

The NH Civil Rights Act would disagree.

They are being punished for violating the NH Civil Rights Act.

That applies to shit like runaway slaves too. I’m saying that law shouldn’t exist / violates the first amendment.

Correct. But that law, or portions of it, is bad in my view.

Correct, but that’s punishing the content of a message, which is “bad.”

My takes cannot be the worst because I don’t have a Ukrainian flag in my profile.

Free speech isnt the same as zero consequences.

Honestly they don't need to make a federal case out of some idiots trespassing. Give them their fine and tell them to screw off. Making this kind of circus just gives them all the attention they want

It's zero direct legal consequences. It doesn't mean they can't be fired from their jobs or something.

Guess I should add nativist and xenophobic to the list. Yes hate speech by itself is protected as long as it’s not targeted harassment or threats, these dipshits are not just charged with hate speech.

And I’d prefer it if bigots, racists, and xenophobes didn’t vote, but alas, the constitution protects that right.

> these dipshits are not just charged with hate speech

True. I view this as resisting arrest - it's often a bullshit charge added on when the cops don't like you.

> And I’d prefer it if bigots, racists, and xenophobes didn’t vote, but alas, the constitution protects that right.

Exactly, respecting rights sucks sometimes.

I agree

You can’t sit here and say “these charges sound like bullshit” without everyone in the thread thinking you agree with the nonsense they (the defendants) spew on the regular

People lose sight of objectivity in circumstances like this because they are abhorrent at the end of the day

I worked for costco 16 years. Very good worker and well liked I thought by all. Covid hits us at the same time as the Black Lives matter. We Employees were told to tell any and all members who come in the store please comply with covid mask up no eat drink in the store and keep the dam 6 ft. BUT what happens is WE9 Me) the assential employee again 16 years. gets threatened by a Black man i dont know. were told walk away find a supervisor or manager. I find my Assistant general manager of the store. Long story shorter now. He had me HIDE in a room and did not address the man on the threat. he wanted his name. The Name was NOT on The MEMBERSHIP card. he let him go. I was DENIED MY own Rights to feel safe within. I could not call the police. was denied any information of the person . I am 57 years old a HOMOSEXUAL. and I ask where were My Rights. I now am jobless. what do you say of that. NOONE cares . BUT If I the HOMO did something in the store oh all hell would come down on me.

What’s your point?

Same