I hate that people are hoarding single family homes and turning them into investments, drying up the availability of homes for people who just want to buy a place to live in.

Wait why is that bad? Honest question. Wouldn't I be making it nice for renters?

Because you’re snatching up houses for your own profit and not allowing families who need a house to buy it. It’s bad for economy and the individual

Don't listen to them buy the property and rent it out. just don't hold off for higher rent get it rented as soon as possible. people's want places to live now.

If your numbers check out then why not? A lot of properties in North NJ are still overpriced and cash flowing might be an issue without putting in a big down payment. Then your ROI (+ famous NJ renting laws headaches) makes it less appealing.

Whats special about Rahway?

You’d make them pay double your mortgage, taxes and insurance, because a bank would not give them a mortgage. It’s predatory to seek profit based on economic desperation.

I would say that a few peoples opinions on Reddit should not sway what you do with your hard earned money. There are worse things you could be investing in than property in the most densely populated area in the US. Maybe if you feel a bit guilty about it, you can buy something that needs renovation, invest to fix it and then sell it again instead of renting out.

It's frustrating from a younger person's perspective because many large companies are buying up houses and renting it back for a profit. This sucks because it 1) raises rent all across the state, 2) increases the cost of homes, and 3) takes home away from people who could have brought them before the market was artificially inflated.

New Jersey is a nice place but an expensive one, and landlords don't help with that

The place is there now. It's for sale. Buying it and demanding passive income over and above the mortgage payment and maintenance doesn't magically increase housing inventory.

Exhibit A demonstrating why rents are sky high and homes are impossible to afford.

“Neighborhood is getting cute, let me help gentrify further and scoop up a house that an actual family can buy and occupy.” hm

Because you’re just making money off the renters labor. Kinda goes with being a landlord.

I don't know - I just like it. Cute little shops and restaurants and independent bookstores and coffee shops. Very diverse unlike most "cutesy" towns in NJ

You already have that landlord mindset of thinking you're providing a service. Ugh.

Rahway has a nice downtown area, great shopping nearby, the parkway and turnpike are accessible and close by, great parks, shade, sidewalks (in theory it's walkable, depending where you live), a major hub train station that has two train lines running through and depending on the train it can take 40-50 mins to get to midtown manhattan (and you're usually only waiting up to 20 mins to get on the next train in or out of NYC). Only drawback is that the schools suck and the taxes are high. Parking can be annoying too for some of the homes or apartments with no driveway or lot.

Oh that is an interesting concept. Thanks

So how does one ethically invest in anything? If I put money in the market, I'm also making money sitting on my dead ass right?

Thanks! High taxes combined with below standards schools seems like a red flag to me.

😂 I’m over here in the trenches just trying to look at a cape cod without standing on a line at an open house. Housing market is rough in jersey…

Don’t listen to all the broke babies here. Everyone has the same opportunity to buy if they want. Rent it out.

The only thing I would add is with rates the way they are now your profit margin on a single unit is probably low. If you were living in the other unit solidly worth it still.

Dam Rahway is getting cute? What part lol. It was still pretty not nice when I grew up around there

Buying stocks doesn’t include leeching off people’s labor. Renters will pay you more than your mortgage. You’ll take their money then pay your mortgage getting credit for THEIR money. You’re directly profiting off their labor by inserting yourself in the process. There’s zero upside for the renter. If you’re ethically ok with that then be a landlord. It’s a choice you need to make for yourself.

You'd be demanding parasitic profit by threatening to withhold a basic human need (shelter). It isn't just that passive income is unethical.

If you want to invest in housing ethically, build a house.

People seem to think that owning a home or renting out a home is some form of charity.

The bad guy is not the individual landlords...it's the commercial real estate groups, banks, investment firms and insurance companies.

I am ready to give up lmao

Are you going to live in the duplex?

No… everyone does not. Are you paying attention? Some people can’t even afford groceries now.

That’s right there’s no where to rent anywhere

kiddos out in full force here today lol

Hang in there!!!! Eventually…it will get better. My intention was to look at 3 open houses yesterday, all 2-3 bedrooms. Long ass lines outside the house when I pulled up. I thought to myself “nope, I ain’t fighting for a home.” And drove away…. Don’t lose hope!!

The prices + rates are one disaster but the inventory is so bleak. We’ll see bc renting is just getting more and more expensive. Maybe OP can rent me their soon to be cute duplex for 2500$ a month lmao

Plus utilities…don’t forget utilities.

You’re right. Lets just round up to 3k for a 1 bedroom with shared walls. Can’t wait to move in.

What planet are you on? I already own a home, but saying everyone has the same opportunity to buy if they want is the height of delusion. Cash buyers are pushing financing buyers out of a market that's already dealing with an affordability crisis based on higher rates and low inventory.

Don't be a dickhead.

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What would be an ethical investment for OP to make instead of real estate?

You probably bought a 4 bedroom in 87 huh

The renting out of single family homes in the state is the reason why people can't buy a house to begin with. My neighbor is renting out his house because he moved to Florida to retire and the cops are literally over there at least twice a month because they're pissing off the neighbors next to them

Exactly I've had people randomly knock on my door asking if I wanted to sell my house and it's all these investment groups that are going to rent them out. It legitimately should be illegal

Just a note of caution about Rahway, be sure to look up FEMA flood zone maps... and then probably add a couple blocks onto the map.

If I ever get the motivation to sell my house and downsize, I think about some of the condos downtown there but only if it came with an off-street parking spot that wasn't at ground level.

Lol it’s not. You don’t know what they would charge for rent. Maybe a family that can’t put together a down payment on a home right now would rent it out.

I loved when I went to look at homes and all of a sudden everyone had different names for styles of homes. Looked up cape cod and understood it meant something like in the style of some older homes that were built on a small footprint so the hallways are more narrow and the rooms smaller generally speaking. We went to see a home and the agent was like this is an “expanded cape cod.” I had no idea what anything was after that.

I live in a retirement community and some idiot (who owns several units) rented a unit to hoarders. The entire patio area is loaded with trash and it seems to be growing. The inside is loaded with boxes and junk up to the ceilings. It's an eye sore and lowers the property values.

Seems that the board and management can do nothing about it.

🙄

And that's the problem with some owners as long as you as the owner is getting the rent on time you don't care how it affects the community or the neighbors that have to live with your tenants year round. I'm not saying everyone that rents a house is bad of course. But slowly but surely we are becoming a nation of renters because the housing stock is being taken up by investment groups to turn into rentals and the only thing really getting built nowadays it seems is large apartments

Even the parking garage had problems in one of those huge flooding storms in recent years. If I remember right, the entire top level of the garage near the train station pancaked down into lower levels.

Make money off the back of labor in the stock market like everybody else

It’s not bad. Ignore the whiners. There will always be a market for rentals. There will always be people who can’t buy or don’t want to buy a house. They need a place to live. People love to hate landlords (and shitty ones do exist unfortunately), but there will always be a need for them.

If you have they money/ability and the desire to do so, then go for it.

The place is empty now, so no family is living their. So 2 family renters would decrease demand by 2 families.

Hey anyone can come and buy the property. A single family owner could buy it and make it a single family home for the next 30 years. That would reduce the housing stock by one.

The market and town wants someone in their now. Paying taxes and keeping upkeep. The faster the better

it's funny cause while I hate it as well I also hate the idea of the state telling people what they can and can't make money off of just as much. imagine them telling regular people they can't sell their car for a profit within 2 years or something dumb... id love to stop all the apartment type buying but id also hate to open pandoras box

Yeah people are just conflating a lot in this thread. If there’s any change that’s needed, it’s not one person that needs to stop buying a second home, it’s the corporations relying on predatory practices to snatch up homes on a large scale to rent. That and/or foreign investors parking their money without improvement to the community.

Saying op should let someone who needs a place to live to buy it could be said about everyone who wins a bid to purchase a home. If I buy a home, and the person I beat out in the market also needed a home, was what I did unethical because I didn’t allow the other person to buy the home at a more affordable price?

People are understandably angry but OP is not nearly the core of the problem.

Are you being serious here? Have you looked at the housing market turnover in the past few years? Do you seriously think housing is just sitting around vacant and unsold, and the solution to that problem is landlords?

I’ve done it and would never do it again. The type of person you’d want looking after you nest egg has bought a nest egg or two of their own a while ago.

If they charge more for rent than they are paying on the mortgage, taxes, and maintenance, it is by definition parasitic.

If they don't charge more for rent than they are paying on the mortgage, taxes, and maintenance, their existence as a landlord is pointless and they are just wasting money.

>If I buy a home, and the person I beat out in the market also needed a home, was what I did unethical because I didn’t allow the other person to buy the home at a more affordable price?

If you turn around and rent that home back to them at a profit, yes.

Fuck landlords.

You could rent out at a profit and still cost the renters less monthly than if they went with a rentals business. Also, individual landlords can be more lenient when it comes to background checks and if there is a relationship even allow for late payments.

And not all people who rent are settling because they cant find homes. Many rent because of university or temporary job assignments.

There are also people who sell homes that need major work and will not be good for first time buyers. Someome whith a buy to rent plan can bring that home back to the market.

None of that changes the fact that by doing so and collecting a profit, the tenant is paying you money to do nothing other than happen to have enough liquid capital to outbid them.

>Everyone has the same opportunity to buy if they want.

Uh, no they don't. The is how the rich get richer.

Invest in Commercial Real Estate. Too many ways to invest to list here.

Genuine curiosity here: so many people seem to think landlords are evil and predatory because they charge more in rent than they pay for mortgage/taxes/upkeep etc. Many people also either don’t want or can’t afford to buy, between down payments, desire not to be locked in to one place , whatever.

So, if you don’t want to or can’t afford to save for a down payment and buy, who is it that is supposed to be renting you a place to live, if landlording is evil?

Not trying to vilify or troll, I legit want to know who you think should be risking their capital and renting people houses?

The solution is buy whole single family blocks and knock them all down and build 5 story density 2-3 bedroom apartments. Do that till rent prices are 1000 average.

But that will never happen. A maybe possible solution is take single family homes and make them into double family. That could double the housing stock of an area within 6 to 10 months.

That's a pretty novel idea. I don't think anyone ever tried doing that in New Jersey

So....despite what everyone tells you on reddit, you won't get rich doing it.

Best case scenario, you make a month's rent in profit after covering all your expenses, note, etc. And that is a smooth year, where you have a perfect tenant that doesn't cause issues for all 12 months, need nothing that falls outside your capital budget, and the one or two minor things that pop up you handle yourself.

Other years you may blead money when unplanned stuff goes bad well before it was supposed to, and always at the worst possible time. One bad tenant (can wipe out years of profit in just a couple of months). One mistep can get your ass sued off.

You have to constantly remind yourself that you are in it for the long haul, and that is the equity, and someone else fronting a bunch of the costs allowing you to acquire that property.

Our tenants were all awesome, and we made it through the pandemic unscathed, but i know a bunch of landlords who took a bath on it, and others who re-evaluated their risk and got out\are getting out of it. On its good days its a part time job of a few hours a week (and this is just with 3 properties and good tenants). On its bad days, its hell on earth and you will question as to if its really worth it constantly.

But the short of it is:

1. Don't not expect to make money year over year on it. You will most likely run in the red for a few years before you get to break even, and even then dip into the red (ignoring equity) from time to time. Make sure you have the capital to handle that. Its not just you losing a house or tanking your credit if you fuck up, there is real liability and potentially criminality on the line.
2. A bank isn't going to write you a loan and consider rental value if you aren't occupying at least a portion of the place, and even then, its only one factor. Most won't touch you at a good rate unless you have either demonstrated a cash flow as a landlord, or have other substantial assets.
3. If you aren't even basic handy, just don't do it. Tradesfolks know they have you by the balls even more so than if it was your own house on most stuff if you can't do it yourself. Being able to say, swap a hot water heater on your own on a holiday weekend is the difference of a grand or two and not having to put up your tenant in a hotel. That leaky faucet, noisy toilet, funny lightswitch? All a couple hundred bucks a pop if you have to turn to a pro. And if you are a landlord and not doing it yourself, you are turning to a pro for liability reasons, not "jim down the street".

You seem to be living in the wrong country. May I suggest a time machine to the 1930s soviet union? They would assign you a cardboard home depending on how many people are in your family or how big a bribe you give.

They also had rationing for basic foods....

How do you factor risk into your assessment?

Its reddit so its just the loudest voices.

As i said below, if someone pays their rent on time every month, for 12 months, i make EXACTLY 1 month in rent "profit" after paying our note, taxes, insurance, accountant, and putting aside money for capital repairs. My place sits vacant for 2 months, i'm out 2 years of that profit. One tenant trashes the place, and i'm out a multiple of that, and yeah, have fun trying to collect against a person like that.

The real money is in the equity, but even then, when you consider the liability and expense and time sink a small time landlord puts in, unless they are trying to time the market and play the long game, they are better off going to AC and playing blackjack. If they are playing the long game, there are honestly plenty of things i can expect to see the same return on by just setting and forgetting it over 20-30 years.

Real estate SHOULD be just a way of diversifying your investments. Its possible to be an honest and ethical landlord, and i like to think of myself as one, but more and more i'm finding most tenants aren't willing to return the favor. You don't think i know you have 2 cats when the lease said no and you couldn't have even bothered to ask me? That the person you are dating basically lives there when the lease says no? The oil stain on the drivway came from you trying to shadetree oil change your car?

We're not talking about a business selling widgets capitalizing on an arbitrage opportunity. We're talking about housing, shelter, basic human needs.

It's like asking "how do you factor in the holding risk for water", the question you should be asking is "why the hell is there risk for this to begin with?"

I'm not talking about a business either. There are risks in buying vs renting and I'm curious how you factor that in, because the way you speak is so staunch in the present that you don't seem to factor for the future.

It's not like the house would languish on the market unless a landlord came along to buy it and rent it out. Inventory is super low, and sellers are going to naturally take the easiest buyer with the most money, so you get cash buyers unaffected by interest rates. Meanwhile, families who saved for years are losing buying power because of rising interest, thus having to save longer and missing out on a home.

Landlords are not heroes or victims.

Are you implying that landlords act as some kind of insurance?

No

From what I understand, part of the issue is the current rental market is WHY people can’t afford to buy a place, for several reasons.

First is the rush to snatch up these properties by big investment groups or even individuals looking to add rental properties to their portfolio inflates the cost of homes due to the crazy demand. People dropping tens of thousands + on top of asking price in cash for a home is not normal and your average joe can’t compete. This goes unchecked so large groups can acquire enough properties in an area that they can inflate rent prices how they see fit to an extent.

Then because of the high prices for rent which is honestly insane in parts of NJ, people don’t have extra money at the end of the month to put away and save for anything, let alone the down payment on a home. This can have ripple effects in keeping a person tied down to a job because of the inability to move, or forcing people to live so far from their place of work that they have a ridiculous commute everyday which also has its financial consequences.

Obviously someone has to rent property, but the “business” of making a profit on keeping a roof over someone’s head is out of control

FWIW I don’t think OP is being malicious or evil. Like I said someone has to rent properties and an individual owning a single extra property as an investment is likely the least exploitative way to go about it. I think bigger companies buying up multiple properties is the main problem!

I agree that big companies buying up tone of properties is a big issue.

There seem to be a lot of people who think being a landlord of any kind if exploitive, and I’m just curious how they feel the rental market should work if they have that sentiment.

Yeah, I hear you. I don’t lease property to anyone, but I think I have a decent understanding of the business model, and I don’t think most of the people who express the ‘landlords are evil’ sentiment understand that landlords are risking their personal capital (in the case of non-corporate owners) so there has to be an incentive (profit) or nobody would ever do it.

I definitely believe that there are tons of unethical landlords and tenants, too. We thought about buying a duplex or triple as an investment but I just didn’t want to deal with all the headaches, such as the things you mention above.

til anyone making a profit on anything is parasitic

this sub is just filled with antiworkers and rebubble kids lol

I 100% agree that there are people out there getting edged out of the market to buy a house, and that sucks. I’m old enough to have seen a few cycles where the real estate market ebbs and flows, and right now is one of those shitty times for buyers. Has to be completely frustrating.

It seems like there’s a significant and important role for landlords though. Many people (young people, people who move around for jobs, growing families, older folks etc) want to rent and not buy, and I was just curious what the vitriolic ‘landlords are evil’ people thought in terms of that piece of the market should be handled.

We're talking about housing here man. Basic human needs. If you want to make a profit selling hats or something, that's a different issue.

I have no issue with apartments that are meant to be apartments. I understand that there will always be a segment of the population that benefits more from renting. The issue I have is when so called average people think that they can hoard property and use it for "passive" income. Those landlords do nothing of benefit for anyone.

so home builders, lenders, repairmen, etc are all parasites too

If you'd quit putting words in my mouth, maybe you'd stop and ask yourself what tangible benefit landlords provide compared to people who actually build and repair houses.

🙄 More gentrifiers....

idk, maybe housing for people who can't afford to buy and shoulder taxes, repairs, etc

In what world do you think rent is less expensive than a mortgage, taxes, and maintenance? Where is that money coming from, genius?

It’s one thing for individuals to do, problem is the investment groups that are buying up all the inventory. Could easily cap the amount of sfh’s one entity can own

you may want to try owning a house sometime and having to deal with a 5 figure bill yourself, kiddo lol

I just paid $10k to replace our A/C two years ago, "kiddo". No landlord required.

Are you going to explain how a landlords magically make housing cost less to maintain and somehow conjure up a profit in doing so?

You’re saying only places built specifically as apartments should be rented?

In a scenario where average people can’t buy houses and rent it out for passive income/ equity, who owns the homes that get rented out? Assuming not everyone who wants to rent wants to rent an apartment - some people (like me before I bought) want to rent a house.

At this point it's obvious that whatever argument I make, you're going to advocate for landlords. We can just agree to disagree. I'm tired of seeing communities turned into all rental neighborhoods by individual landlords and investment groups. I hate that airbnb and other short term rental companies have prevented families from putting down roots in towns that are quickly being priced out of reach. I don't know how to solve the issue without massive government oversight or a guillotine, but I know which method is more satisfying.

I'm just lucky that I was able to buy last year before rates shot way up, in a town I've long loved. There are a lot of small time landlords in my town, renting homes to people for considerably more than what my mortgage costs. It's not great.

I just think landlords have a role in the overall market, as not everyone wants to rent a small apt or buy. It’s not really ‘advocating’ as much as it is just accepting the reality of the housing market and that people have preferences. Unethical landlords that try to screw people out of every dime possible are not what I’m talking about - fuck those people. But renting, in general, doesn’t need to be evil. Maybe limits on rent increases, like they do in some cities, would be in order throughout the country.

As far as airbnb and the like, I feel like short term rentals in residential areas are destroying neighborhoods by creating blocks of houses with transient occupants. I don’t have all the answers, in terms of what to do about it, but those types of arrangements should be addressed, IMO.

IN NJ!!! That’s how I know you’re not a person in this situation, you have zero point of reference. Buy house then tell me how much cheaper it is.

You’re clearly out of the loop. Maybe do a little research, try to have a full understanding of the market past and present, then come back and comment in an informed way.

Rahway cute??

Fuck landlords

Just to add on this, FEMA flood maps are due for a change very, very soon. They should be out already. IDA did a number on everything, and out of an abundance of caution I'd add 2 feet, at least to everything, as crazy as that sounds. NJ Hazard Mitigation plans are due 2025, and they'll need up-to-date maps to prepare them. So it should all be coming down the pike.

Yeah, sucks to think there's something else that would potentially hold up buying a home now.

Which part of Jersey?

Great idea. Highly recommend. Building wealth is always smart. Hire a management company to do repairs, etc.

Lol right .. I grew up there and my parents still live there . Cute is not a word I would associate with Rahway .

How many $10k repairs did you do at places you were renting

completely agree

Bergen and Passaic 😂😂

Good luck! I moved away from there because of traffic and it was just getting way too expensive. A tiny cape cod I used to live in Fair Lawn sold for close to $600k at the end of last year. House was a dump in my opinion...so sad. Had so many issues. I have relatives who paid 75k for a cape there in the 80's. It's ridiculous!

Eat shit imo

Stop calling people kiddo! You sound like a dick head

The homes aren’t worth that price and I’m not going to participate. I’ll sit and wait. If I’m paying 600k, I want move-in ready, 5 bedroom house. Not a 2 bed, 1 bath with wood paneling walls, a dryer from the 80s, pink bathrooms and checkered linoleum in the kitchen. 😝

... are you trying to imply that landlords in NJ specifically pay more in expenses than they get in rent? Is every landlord in NJ just a rube then?

How should I know? The landlord doesn't tell me how much he spends on repairs, I just throw gobs of money at him and hope he's not ripping me off.

But if he's still in business, chances are I've paid more than he's spent on repairs.

I hear you. Wish I could move back up there. Maybe one day.