Crosswalk Laws

Submitted by manawydan-fab-llyr t3_1263rbn in newjersey

Seriously... why?

(rand ahead)

I'm sorry, I've been trying to hold this one in, but can't no longer. I admit, I like to walk, clear my head after a rough day at work. It's kind of hard when people try to run me down. And I'm not walking about the ones in the middle of a stretch of road on a 45mph road - I know well enough to just wait. I'm talking about when I'm crossing at a corner and someone comes to a stop sign and then proceeds to make a turn and attempt to mow me down. Like, fuck.

I find the biggest offenders in my neck of the woods are the ladies and gents with shields in the windshield. That's what set me off last night to rant this one. A young lady stopped for me so I could cross, and an ass in a luxury SUV blows around a corner and STOP sign in a left turn (judging from his speed) to almost take me out - my back was to him when he approached, he passed in front of me.

I yelled "hey asshole". He pulls into the Police Hq parking lot (I should have known better in retrospect), and jumps out demanding to know who I'm cursing at with his badge in his hand. I just blew him off saying he scared the fuck out of me, and kept walking.

Like fuck, can't even walk safely.

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Comments

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Rusty_Ferberger t1_je7f6lv wrote

I lived in a smaller town a while back and would always walk to stores and parks, and cars never stopped at crosswalks, cops included. I would flip the cars off, and they would flip it back. I would stop at crosswalks when I drove, and cars would honk and drive past me. Also, don't be afraid to curse at cops. They can't do shit about it.

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Action_Maxim t1_je7m82i wrote

When we were kids in a town that rhymed with Larsippany, there was a part of town where we would chuck our skateboard at cars for cutting us off. Then we got a skate park lol

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elephantbloom8 t1_je9e3si wrote

I work with a lot of cops in many different towns and have seen much. They can charge you with disorderly conduct or something similar for cursing in public. I recommend calmly filing a charge against them with their internal affairs department instead. NJ's been doing a good job lately of separating those departments and creating more accountability. I can't speak to whether or not it's working, but the cops definitely are on more alert about it that I've seen.

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Rusty_Ferberger t1_je9knch wrote

I'm pretty sure being charged for flipping of a cop is a violation of free speech.

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new_tanker t1_je9spsd wrote

Sure is. Profanity and the middle finger are indeed protected by the first amendment.

I learned that many townships and their respective corrupt municipal court judges are trying to bankroll their town's coffers by having cops arrest law-abiding for mundane and non-existent laws.

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betcher73 t1_je9lqyo wrote

Not everyone has the time, money, and/or energy to sue a police dept

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AccountantOfFraud t1_je9vc8t wrote

I'm sure there are lawyers that would do pro-bono for a slam dunk case and get some punitive damages as well. IANAL.

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betcher73 t1_jea29bp wrote

Yes, but lawyers can’t give you time and energy.

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love2Vax t1_jea708f wrote

I would love to stand in front of a judge and tell them exactly why I flipped off a law breaking cop who risked my life unecessarliy.

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elephantbloom8 t1_jead263 wrote

It should be, and I'm sure it varies from state to state, but in NJ, it's not absolute. Here's a good description of what I've seen:

https://www.mvplawoffice.com/disorderly-conduct-vs-free-speech/

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Rusty_Ferberger t1_jeatstt wrote

I am pretty sure flipping off a cop for failing to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk would not meet any of the conditions included in this article.

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elephantbloom8 t1_jeaurkr wrote

I'm pretty sure you're the only one talking about flipping a cop off. The original comment I was responding to said cursing them out.

Regardless, in NJ if they can articulate that you're in violation of this law, you'd then have to deal with that headache, right or wrong. I was commenting that, due to this possibility, it's better to remain calm and file a complaint instead. It may feel good to flip them off in the moment, but it's not worth the headache when you can achieve better results filing a complaint.

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Rusty_Ferberger t1_jeawz02 wrote

Ok....I am pretty sure shouting hey asshole at a cop for failing to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk would not meet any of the conditions included in this article.

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elephantbloom8 t1_jebnvrn wrote

"People accused of disorderly conduct can be filed for:
Improper Behavior – This includes engaging in violent behavior, fighting, making threats. It also addresses causing purposeful and reckless public annoyance, alarm, or inconvenience or creating a physically dangerous condition through an act of no legitimate purpose.

Offensive Language – Based on the circumstances of the individual present and the act’s setting. Generally, it addresses unreasonably loud, offensive, abusive, or coarse language used purposefully to offend those who hear it or recklessly without regard for the hearer.

If found guilty of any of these offenses, you could face up to 6 months in jail and a $1,000 fine. You will also have to pay $50 and $75 to the Victims of Crime Compensation Board (VCCB) and Safe Neighborhood Services Fund and $33 in court costs."

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Rusty_Ferberger t1_jecepng wrote

Ok. Clearly, you think giving a cop the finger or calling him an asshole is illegal. I don't. The next time a cop refuses to yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk, I will shout, "Fuck you, asshole!", and get back to you.

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elephantbloom8 t1_jechv2r wrote

Do yourself a favor and go back and reread. Maybe it'll help you to calm down once you realize that you're not understand the comments right.

Or actually, do yourself a bigger favor and try to get that chip off your shoulder. You don't have to fight the whole world and not everyone's out to get you. You'll be a lot happier.

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Rusty_Ferberger t1_jeciva0 wrote

Nah. When people can't do something as simple as yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk, I will call them out on it. I'm happy with that.

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manawydan-fab-llyr OP t1_jeegmgo wrote

Same here. I've had people nearly hit me with a cop witness this. Nothing.

I ain't afraid of cursing at cops, I am kind of afraid of myself sometimes (not helping myself in such a situation that is).

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Deslah t1_je7ebj7 wrote

It's not just New Jersey; it's the entire U.S.

Sorry, but it's basically a nation of "Oh, look at that cute little kitten!" sweethearts that turn on a dime and become the absolute worse "fuck that guy" jerks.

And I can't count the times I've almost been mowed over by bicyclers who were riding on the cross street and abruptly decided "I'm a pedestrian on wheels now" and joined the walkers in the crosswalk while still racing through on their bike.

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sutisuc t1_jec6k9h wrote

There are absolutely better places for it than NJ though. Worse places too but we shouldn’t kid ourselves and not pretend NJ has a big problem with this, especially since we are so densely populated and urbanized.

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LalaOringe t1_je7gz5m wrote

Head on a swivel at all times, and assume no one sees you or will stop if they do.

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snarfydog t1_jea2nsu wrote

Sadly this is the truth. I think I learned a lot from being an avid cyclist for many years, you really get an instinct for where cars can be coming from and where visibility sucks.

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swimswalls t1_jeazrxv wrote

This is just sound advice for a pedestrian, a cyclist, a motorcyclist, and a driver. Can't assume people out there have your safety in their minds.

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manawydan-fab-llyr OP t1_jeeh1dm wrote

Yeah I get that, I look both ways even at a one way street, but I can't always be looking behind me, which is where I have most of my near misses.

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over61guy t1_je7uwrc wrote

Cars stop for pedestrians in Princeton almost all the time. Princeton is a great walking town. Never had a close call there.

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ceeyell t1_je84lpg wrote

Jersey drivers don’t wanna hear this, but being able to turn on red is SUPER dangerous and downright hostile to pedestrians and should be illegal like in the rest of the country.

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djheat t1_je8y1ij wrote

Right on red is the default everywhere in the United States except for NYC

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SGT_MILKSHAKES t1_je9y0s6 wrote

Funny how it’s the default except in one of the US’s most walkable cities

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RafeDangerous t1_jea2x6g wrote

It's a function of density. Even if it was legal to do right on red in Manhattan, I'd never even try it, just way too many pedestrians. Other places with fewer people walking it makes far more sense. People do need to be way more attentive when they're doing it though.

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manawydan-fab-llyr OP t1_jeehnfm wrote

Which funny enough NYC has an entire section - Broad Channel - that allowed left on red last I was out there (admittedly years ago).

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srgause t1_je89cpb wrote

Yes! I have had way too many close calls in jersey city while walking my dogs- drivers don’t even look both ways while turning on red

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elephantbloom8 t1_je9edxm wrote

They never look right first. They only look left while rolling on through.

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small-change t1_je9rxqu wrote

They also don't look at oncoming traffic that has a left turn green arrow.

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sutisuc t1_jec6qe1 wrote

Where else is it illegal other than NYC?

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therealpetejm t1_je7u2s9 wrote

I agree with your frustration here, was walking my dog a few nights ago and gave a car a few seconds to get through the crosswalk since they were super close. After I slowed down to not be in it so they could keep going the fun happened.

As I was walking across more than halfway through a line of ambulances (not running code) were approaching and failed to stop for me, I saw the headlights out of the corner of my eye and bolted the rest of the way across with my dog. Didn't even stop to check on me, but the ambulance behind them did and I damn sure got their info. The problem was no one at the HQ was having any of my complaints and kept bouncing me around. I know these folks are underpaid and overworked, but damn it would've been funny as hell to be hit by an ambulance then taken to the hospital in the one behind it.

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OkBid1535 t1_je8vptv wrote

When I’m driving I always make sure to stop for pedestrians. It is mind boggling how many people will get annoyed at me for stopping, or how many I witness try to actually mow people down as you said.

I will say I was pleasantly surprised in long branch a few days ago, when I had to cross ocean ave on foot and three separate delivery trucks stopped for me. I was using a cross walk, not at a light. And the trucks forced everyone to stop behind them on either side of traffic to let me cross.

But I also know that was a very rare hospitable moment and sadly most drivers aren’t that courteous to pedestrians.

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Dfndr612 t1_je7h22q wrote

I always give pedestrians the right of way, there’s no issue and the law in NJ is clear.

But…at night time pedestrians crossing can be dangerous. Some areas are not well lit and people wearing dark clothing can be hard to see, especially in inclement weather.

I will add don’t just start walking. Make sure cars can see you and there is enough distance for vehicles to stop safely.

If I’m crossing the street I am not just walking into the street without looking.

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snarfydog t1_jea392t wrote

Always amazed at how I see people crossing the street completely oblivious (and not just because they are looking at their phones). Like, if you are crossing a side street next to a major street, you better have eyes on the major street as there's always a chance some idiot is going to turn without seeing you.

Also....night is bad, but dusk is worse. At night at least headlights/streetlights really illuminate things. At dusk the light is washed out, really hard to see things.

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Dfndr612 t1_jea5jth wrote

Kind of amazed that people walk head down, headphones on, and don’t look before crossing. Especially in shopping plaza parking lots.

I just don’t trust anyone driving by with my life and my ability to continue walking around. People can be distracted, on their phone, or simply be terrible drivers.

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john_browns_beard t1_jeagyan wrote

If I see someone waiting at a crosswalk and I have time to stop, I will stop and let them go 100% of the time. I'll even take the extra steps of hitting my hazard lights and blocking the middle of the lane so jackasses won't try to drive around, which has happened to me on multiple occasions.

People do make it really hard sometimes, though. Love it when someone is power walking down the sidewalk and then takes a quick 90 degree turn directly into the street with no warning and without looking.

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Administrative_Elk66 t1_je9dcdt wrote

NJ is the weirdest place I've lived for cars obeying crosswalks, in that they just don't do it. I've had cars behind me go into the opposite lane of traffic to pas when I stop at a red light and theres a pedestrian In the middle of the crosswalk. I've seen cars clip pedestrians by trying to squeeze around them when they're in the middle of the crosswalks- regular people and cops both. When I've been crossing the street WITH A CROSSING GUARD during school zone hours, cars have tried to squeeze around me to keep going. One time I was walking in Woodbridge and the announcement for the walk symbol said to be cautious, that cars may not stop. It's baffling, and there's no reason for it.

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Cashneto t1_jeacgvf wrote

Everyone has their heads up their own asses and think they're more important than everyone else. How else do you describe the extreme amount of tailgating to get to their destination 2 minutes earlier?

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oywiththecats t1_je9ewoh wrote

I moved to NYC over a year ago and every time I come back to NJ to visit, it’s a nightmare. Trying to cross at a light? Practically a death wish! My wife has lived in NYC for 10 years and I always have to stop her from just blindly following crosswalk signs in NJ. Just because it says you can cross doesn’t mean you can!

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Cashneto t1_jeacr7c wrote

Hell most of the time pedestrians in NYC don't even look before they cross let alone look for a sign. I kind of miss living in the city, NJ does not have a walking culture which is pretty sad.

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sutisuc t1_jec6n8h wrote

NYC is worlds better for stopping for pedestrians than NJ

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grumpystoo t1_jea3cfv wrote

There is a Youtube Channel about this very topic:

https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes

Enjoy a few hours that will infuriate you, and make you realize how things have been engineered in the US. To fix the walking and biking issue, requires pissing off all the Karen's in their oversized, kid killing SUV's.

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wasitme317 t1_je8wwqn wrote

You should have gotten his name and badge, the walked into the police Department and report his sss for

  1. Not obeying traffic laws
  2. For abuse of power.
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Dicksapoppin69 t1_je9a9xn wrote

How cute, you think that:

  1. He'd actually give it
  2. Anything would come of it if you did report him.
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wasitme317 t1_jeaszfc wrote

Actually if he identified himself as a police the must give you name and badge number

At minimum counselling from superiors

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Dicksapoppin69 t1_jeazi2d wrote

Oh they'll give it, right on the BS citation you're getting now because their ego was challenged.

Here's the counseling: "You got a complaint from some Karen. Don't worry, we ain't gonna do shit about it"

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StubbornAndCorrect t1_jeac3fz wrote

"You should have gotten arrested on false charges."

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wasitme317 t1_jeatkut wrote

What false charges. If you are reporting it than there are no charges

Get a life

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manawydan-fab-llyr OP t1_jeehzc9 wrote

Yeah, I actually considered it (as I said in OP this was right in front of HQ), except I got a bad vibe about walking into their territory with him right there. Not saying anything would happen, but I was kind of not in the mood for anything *to* happen.

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Snownel t1_je7utbw wrote

I was almost run off the road today by no less than three people head-down on their phones on the drive home, and watched a fourth almost mow down some folks walking across a red light. You couldn't pay me to walk around on the streets here

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RandyCheeseburgers01 t1_je9l9jo wrote

Yay for car-dependent surburban sprawl! (?)

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sutisuc t1_jec6s22 wrote

Except it’s also awful in our cities too

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RandyCheeseburgers01 t1_jegy9g3 wrote

I mean, how many real cities does NJ have? Hoboken/JC, Newark, Paterson, Elizabeth? That's already being generous. Hoboken and Jersey City have made strides in road safety. It all comes back to car dependency though, whether it's in the 'burbs or in the city. And the measures proven to improve pedestrian safety all involve traffic calming / road diets / making things generally worse for drivers by not prioritizing them on 100% of streets and roads.

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michaelcreiter t1_je9pr1h wrote

I was on 202 in parsippany passing tinos bbq yesterday and stopped for a guy trying to cross, the woman behind me tried passing me on the left before she saw him. smfh.

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zebrasezmoo t1_je9rd6r wrote

Legally? You have the right of way if you enter a crosswalk. Logically? I never move through a crosswalk without 100% direct eye contact. If you’re walking for health/mental health, instead of assuming people are courteous at a high-traffic intersection, it’s better for your headspace to avoid crosswalks by turning at the intersection and continue down the side street. Eventually, you will only have two directions of traffic to worry about.

I mean, you’re 100% in the right. But, fuck it, you don’t need to BE anywhere or rush around or make a point to some lunatic in a giant ass SUV… passive walking. Nameste alive.

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TenCentCherryCoke t1_jecbr9e wrote

I walk 3X every day and was nearly run down in a quiet cross walk a few weeks ago by a guy that suddenly pulled away from the curb in a black SUV to turn right but only looked left as he blew the stop sign. I was already in the crosswalk to his right. How he stopped without hitting me I’ll never know. He got out to apologize. He was a cop in a ‘ghost’ car.

Two weeks later, while out walking at 5:45 AM on a Sunday morning I crossed the street to avoid someone walking a familiar large unruly dog. A cop stopped me about 150 later chastising me for not crossing at the corner. I told him that I needed to avoid the dog. He continued his lecture, and I decided to walk away.

He followed, stopped me again, demanded to see ID and his backup arrived. I told all 3 cops to fuck off and kept walking. I’ve never had any use for cops, several were on the take in my family’s old ‘business’ and IMO now at 70 years of age ACAB.

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manawydan-fab-llyr OP t1_jeegfzx wrote

You know, I've always been impartial to cops, but since I've hit middle age and seeing more and more act like dicks, I'm starting to feel the ACAB vibe.

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SnooWords4839 t1_je80t3w wrote

You should have been your response and walk into the police station to talk to his supervisor! It is a state law to stop for people in the crosswalks!

Time to tell your town they need more signage for crosswalks!

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sutisuc t1_jec33iv wrote

NJ is insanely bad with this especially in our urban areas like Newark and Jersey city. Meanwhile I’ve been in much less dense/urban areas of other states (particularly California) and they’re much better about stopping for pedestrians

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Anothercoot t1_jec8x64 wrote

Almost every time i stop for the crosswalk rt 46 netcong i get beeped at by someone behind me.

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BF_2 t1_je7wqp4 wrote

Carry a stout walking stick and strike any part of the car you can reach as he drives by. When he stops, immediately charge him with assault with a deadly weapon, assault with intent to kill, reckless driving, and anything else you can think of to add to the complaint.

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OttoBaker t1_je7zxji wrote

I frequently walk to places in my area, and have considered carrying a squirt gun filled with gak-like fluid so I can tag non-stoppers. I like your stick idea.

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manawydan-fab-llyr OP t1_jeeignu wrote

Yeah, just enough to be an annoyance to clean, but not do damage. Nice idea.

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AccountantOfFraud t1_je9w9g5 wrote

Make a variation of the gunblade in Final Fantasy just with a stick and a gross fluid water gun.

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manawydan-fab-llyr OP t1_jeeidwy wrote

Not gonna lie... I used to habit once in a while while working to walk in Manhattan of just tapping a fender when someone did this shit. Until a guy got out of a livery cab and tried with an NYPD camera right there (he even pointed to it as evidence of me damaging his car - with an open palm - OK, dude), then proceeded to try and pummel me. Fortunately I was a runner at the time.

It did remind me though, just like in a car itself, you don't know what the person in the other car is thinking.

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op00to t1_jeam4kr wrote

You will never gain anything by yelling at motorists as a pedestrian. The only thing you can do is walk defensively.

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[deleted] t1_je7v014 wrote

[deleted]

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Motivator9931 t1_je7zxk1 wrote

>At Jersey unmarked corners, pedestrians must yield to vehicles

Vehicles are required to yield to pedestrians at both marked and unmarked crosswalks. Marked are self-explanatory, but an unmarked crosswalk is any intersection that doesn't have a sign that prohibits crossing.

We also don't have jaywalking laws per-se. You can cross outside of crosswalks/intersections (e.g. crossing in the middle of a 1 lane road), but the pedestrian is required to yield to vehicles and they can be ticketed for failure to yield.

https://nj.gov/oag/hts/pedestrian.html

https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/pedsafety/crosswalks.shtm

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[deleted] t1_je8235f wrote

[deleted]

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Motivator9931 t1_je82tmv wrote

>The driver of a vehicle must stop and stay stopped for a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk, but shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection.

Marked crosswalk, vehicle stops.

Unmarked crosswalk, vehicle yields to pedestrians.

Anywhere else, pedestrian yields to vehicles.

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