Grass8989 t1_j6xjtqz wrote
“”I didn’t come to The United States to suffer. I came here to work for my family.””
I’m really convinced, at this point, that the vast majority of the migrants have no idea what constitutes a valid asylum claim, and are actually economic migrants.
spicytoastaficionado t1_j6xqjpo wrote
The majority of them are not legitimate asylum seekers. This has been the trend going back almost a decade when economic migrants first started abusing the asylum system en masse.
For instance, the other day there was a story about migrants selling candy on trains. One of the migrants profiled was from Ecuador. While Ecuador has a lower standard of living than the U.S., it is hard to believe an Ecuadorian has a valid asylum claim going by the USCIS criteria.
misterferguson t1_j6y4g9z wrote
I saw that article. Did they specify that the Ecuadorian person was applying for asylum?
spicytoastaficionado t1_j6zk5md wrote
The migrants profiled in the article arrived in NYC by bus within the last two weeks. One of them specifically described trekking to the U.S. via Mexico and receiving aid from a shelter worker.
The migrants being bussed to NYC are those who have been released into the country by CPD as their asylum cases are pending.
They aren't here as tourists, and obviously not in the country on a school or work visa. An Ecuadorian national going through the conventional means for legally immigrating here (green card, etc.) wouldn't be selling candy on the subway while living at a city shelter.
Did they specifically say they are applying for asylum? No. But there is enough in the article to logically deduce that is how they ended up here.
Similarly to how every article about migrants at hotels don't specify if every single person there is applying for asylum, when it is pretty obvious that is the case.
[deleted] t1_j6zh6h1 wrote
[deleted]
drpvn OP t1_j6xsd6g wrote
We need to overhaul the system for adjudicating asylum claims. Claims that are facially invalid should be bounced within a month or two, rather than 4-5 years.
occasional_cynic t1_j6y6al2 wrote
Within a decade we are going to start to see developed nations withdraw from the Geneva Convention on refugees. There's no easy answers, as I find it impossible to blame the migrants, but this problem is just going to get worse, and so far the reaction of politicians has been to pretend it isn't a problem.
supermechace t1_j6yalnq wrote
There's other factors like need for population and labor pool growth that prevent politicians from being 100% against. The US should adopt a EU style approach to south America to control migration. EU still has refugees problems as it's connected to the rest of the world. But the Americas are separated by oceans so the main migration concern is limited
Meowdl21 t1_j6xt3l7 wrote
The immigrant clearly know they’re economic migrants. It’s the “advocates” that are trying to convince us they’re asylum seekers. Granted I completely support him wanting to provide for his family.
Imaginary-Bread1829 t1_j6ynlf3 wrote
I agree, no harm to him for that, but yk, there’s also a lot valid places for economic migrants. In Lebanon, the government has stolen all the money from their citizens via the banks. There’s electricity there for a few hours a day, and sometimes they even have trouble with electricity in the hospitals. People are legit having to hold up banks to gain access to their money to pay for cancer treatments, and the job market is pretty bad. It’s been insanely hard for Lebanese people to get visas or apply for asylum in the States.
I know comparing doesn’t make these migrants need it any less, but it’s frustrating when a lot of people need economic asylum, & those that get the chance, seem ungrateful or just being over the top of the sake of it, because they have advocates.
occasional_cynic t1_j6xx8e8 wrote
90%+ are economic migrants. Southern and Central America has suffered under overpopulation, corruption, and failed economies for so long that even working a menial job in the US is a better option. Then migrants and smugglers started discovering if you just claim asylum it is easier to get into the country.
Shreddersaurusrex t1_j6yc6su wrote
Then there’s the matter of the US’ interference and involvement in the destabilization of SA countries
BakedBread65 t1_j6yqozp wrote
And allowing mass migration of talented and able bodied workers from those countries is not going to help them
occasional_cynic t1_j6ydubv wrote
I mean, the Soviet Union and Cuba did a great deal more (and then there is Spanish colonialism and the lack of creating domestic institutions), but you cannot blame every problem on external factors.
Shreddersaurusrex t1_j6ye6c9 wrote
Having a holistic view of the situation is important though.
Imaginary-Bread1829 t1_j6ythu1 wrote
Understandably, but blaming other counties only simplifies a complex situation. Ireland was under British control for centuries. Even up to the 20th century, they imposed trade barriers & high tariffs. The Irish economy was awful in the 1980s, but was able to recover in the 1990s, due to government policies that benefited the country & the shift to a different-focused economy.
The best biggest factor to blame is current government corruption and the leaders those poor citizens have to lean on.
movingtobay2019 t1_j6yfl2h wrote
Not relevant to our immigration policy. Like it or not, countries act in their best interest.
Oisschez t1_j6zyn3a wrote
It’s absolutely relevant, we can stop doing the things that create asylum seekers in the first place.
Shrugging our shoulders that “it is how it is, nothing we can do” is leading our world down too many bad paths
BATMAN_UTILITY_BELT t1_j6ylo8f wrote
Sovereignty and the rule of law are infinitely more important than a “holistic view”.
Imaginary-Bread1829 t1_j6yqm3t wrote
How did the U.S. destabilize SA countries? Economically, Latin America didn’t open up international markets until the 1980s, after the Latin American debt crisis. The continent was pretty self-sufficient. Granted, globally(it wasn’t the U.S. alone) they weren’t offered the best trading deals, but I think the lack of organized government has been worse for the people.
The governments have driven a lot of businesses out of the countries, been unable to impose an uncorrupt taxing system and mishandled a lot of government funds. I think you can blame the U.S. for a lot of global problems, but at a certain point blaming the United States is just a scapegoat for bigger internal problems that seem impossible to fix.
[deleted] t1_j6ydzpt wrote
[removed]
Rottimer t1_j6zefrp wrote
Shh, shh, shhh - we don't address underlying issues or root causes in this sub.
koreamax t1_j6zan62 wrote
Especially if you left your family back home. You can't claim to fear for your life if you're fine with leaving your children there
PuzzleheadedWalrus71 t1_j6xn96f wrote
It doesn't seem to matter that they don't know what constitutes a valid asylum claim, our government knows. If our government doesn't care, why should they?
NihFin t1_j6y6rq0 wrote
Always has been - they just claim asylum because they think the government is gullible
Ysr_racer t1_j723yql wrote
Have you seen our President?
Johnnadawearsglasses t1_j6z39s1 wrote
They have a great idea. They know that by the time this is adjudicated they will have made the money they were expecting and will go back home. The entire system is a sham.
koreamax t1_j6zatr3 wrote
Especially if you left your family back home. You can't claim to fear for your life if you're fine with leaving your children there
movingtobay2019 t1_j6yhgje wrote
That was always the case. Most asylum cases are denied.
NECOMONY t1_j6yef40 wrote
We’ve known this the whole time.
[deleted] t1_j70iupg wrote
Enlightenment.
I don’t begrudge anyone who wants to work and they are desperate to work, but it should be done legally. At the rate they’re coming it sounds like South America is Afghanistan during regime change. It may be bad, but it’s not as bad as it seems. Not great, but they have it great compared to those guys in the Sudan.
Bandejita t1_j71m733 wrote
This is not South America. This is a select few country from South America and people from Mexico and Central America.
[deleted] t1_j71me2u wrote
Venezuelan people are from South America.
Bandejita t1_j71mkeo wrote
Exactly. They are ONE country in south America. Pick on the country instead of the continent. You'll be doing us a favor down here.
[deleted] t1_j74sm93 wrote
Open your boarders and let them come south and west.
Maybe if Mexico didn’t let itself turn into a crime and drug ridden shit hole things would be better, but they just let the cartel run things.
Bandejita t1_j74tq38 wrote
Nah we accepted enough migrants. Now it's your turn. Maybe if Americans bought less drugs Mexican cartels would have less power.
atyppo t1_j77im86 wrote
Perhaps if fewer Mexican politicians accepted bribes it wouldn't be in the condition it's in. The corruption goes all the way up to the presidential level, as evidenced by the coddling of El Chapo's mother and the release of Salvador Cienfuegos.
Bandejita t1_j77j17t wrote
Perhaps if there was no money to bribe them with it would be different. But the money comes from selling drugs to the US so you guys are indirectly funding said corruption.
[deleted] t1_j74x8sq wrote
Funny.
Ysr_racer t1_j723tsh wrote
Please don't bring logic and reason into an internet discussion.
myassholealt t1_j72v5da wrote
Asylum claim is the one that gets you in the door, so of course that's what everyone is gonna try. If I was trying to migrate, I would choose the path that most increase my odds too.
Overstaying tourist visas is the easiest option, but not everyone has the means to qualify for the visa in the first place.
iknowyouright t1_j6xxckg wrote
Everyone's pissed about "economics migrants" when the most likely scenario (unless you're black or indigenous) is that everyone's ancestors to this country were a form of "economic migrant." That's the entire purported purpose of this country.
Give me your tired, your POOR, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free.
Grass8989 t1_j6xxlf1 wrote
A poem isn’t immigration policy, and claiming asylum isn’t the proper protocol for immigrating to this country for economic reasons.
As nice as it would for us to be able to absorb the entire worlds poor population, it’s not feasible.
iknowyouright t1_j6xyf39 wrote
Downvote all you people want, but we had no real immigration policy until the Chinese exclusion act, which was based on racism, and then the country-specific immigration quotas, which targeted undesirable populations (notably, those countries just happened to be where the majority of Jews had immigrated from, almost completely halting Jewish immigration to the states).
If your ancestors came before the 1880s they were almost guaranteed to be "economic migrants" but there was no law stopping them from coming. So now in 2023 we look with disdain on people coming for the exact same reasons because....reasons.
Grass8989 t1_j6y00c3 wrote
They also weren’t provided with housing in hotels, medical care, and three meals a day in 1880.
iknowyouright t1_j6y0e7q wrote
How dare we become more humane as the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the world.
The last time these "economic migrants" stopped coming our produce was rotting in the fields. Be grateful you don't have to do the backbreaking, underpaid labor that keeps this country running and instead get to look down on the people that do.
spicytoastaficionado t1_j6y3zju wrote
>The last time these "economic migrants" stopped coming our produce was rotting in the fields. Be grateful you don't have to do the backbreaking, underpaid labor that keeps this country running and instead get to look down on the people that do.
You do realize this is a terrible justification for mass migration, right?
I remember Kelly Osbourne made the same argument about how illegal immigrants are needed in this country to clean toilets.
It is also a de facto endorsement of specifically illegal immigration, since that underpaid labor you support them doing is underpaid because the people performing the jobs can't legally work.
Viewing the value of migrants in this country as solely a source of cheap, often illegal labor, is pretty racist.
It is 2023.
Be better.
Be an anti-racist.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_j6y6xu8 wrote
Always cracks me up when liberal/progressives end up advocating for slavery
>”we need illegals to do illegal labor (that also harms unions) in unregulated labor markets where they can be treated illegally because they’re not able to obtain help through the system and the employers know that.”
Illegal immigrant manual labor is the closest thing to slavery that we still have
iknowyouright t1_j6y5sye wrote
You’re just shoving words in my mouth and calling me a racist.
Plenty of LEGAL immigrants work in almost every labor-intensive industry in this country. That’s our history and current economic reality and pretending it’s not isn’t anti-racist.. If you think I mean illegal immigrants being disposable labor, you can fuck right off. My family is comprised of migrants who came to this country to make a better life for themselves.
You’re also skating the point that US-borne citizens look down on the migrants keeping this country running. Entire industries in this country depend on immigration (not just illegal immigration). And there’s plenty of ways legal migrants get fucked over - looking at the entire HB1 visa program.
So what? You want to send all these people packing instead of letting them come here and build a better life? That’s your idea of being anti-racist? Deport them?
spicytoastaficionado t1_j6yhgte wrote
Be better.
Xenophobia and advocating workplace exploitation will not solve the migrant crisis.
Your racism is heartbreaking and disturbing on multiple levels. These are human beings; not just disposable sources of cheap labor!
iknowyouright t1_j6yjvwt wrote
Just go ahead and ignore everything I wrote and ignore actual reality. I’m assuming you’ve never worked manual labor jobs like I have with actual real migrants, annd with my own family, and your exposure to this entire situation is through the internet. Have a good day.
Solagnas t1_j71yqgv wrote
"140 years later and things are different"
Yeah no shit.
spicytoastaficionado t1_j6y2kgh wrote
>is that everyone's ancestors to this country were a form of "economic migrant."
Yes, once upon a time, people immigrated to this country as economic migrants and declared themselves as such.
Not sure what that has to do with modern-day economic migrants exploiting the asylum system in 2023.
Pointing to how something used to be is not a valid reason for exploiting current laws.
​
>Give me your tired, your POOR, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free.
It is almost like immigration policy is more nuanced than a poem written on a statue gifted to us by the French, who by the way, have a stricter immigration system than we do.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_j6y6dc6 wrote
Going to an untamed new world (literally the New World) where no functioning infrastructure/jobs/cities/towns/roads exist, where you an almost 0% chance of dying by old age, is no economic immigration. It was conquest (for better or for worse, and in the traditional sense of the word).
Also a poem written in 1883 and added to the statue in the 1900s is not how immigration policy work. The poem means literally nothing from a legislative view.
Your take is so historically illiterate that it’s genuinely sad. Please read a book. https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/united-states-history-primary-source-timeline/colonial-settlement-1600-1763/
iknowyouright t1_j6ychtx wrote
Genuine hilarious you think there weren’t towns and cities and an economy run by the indigenous, or that you think Jews escaping the destitution of the Pale of Settlement is the same as British colonial troops orchestrating genocide for conquest.
Please read a book.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_j6yojyq wrote
Pretty much every Iroquois, Algonquin, and any other eastern / mid Atlantic tribe was transient, it was the South American natives that had built anything close to what we could describe as a city. The largest native city north of Mexico was in Illinois and had practically collapsed more than 400 years before Columbus ever even saw the American coast from his ships. Literally not a single white European settler or colonist came to America to “work in the bustling Native American cities” as you seem to think, because those cities did not exist.
Please do yourself a favor and try to figure out why you did not know this.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments