Yeah, it's easy to take for granted (particularly when there's a delay, or someone's acting annoyingly on the subway, or something like that) but it really is one of the great things about living here.

drive in manhattan its a nightmare

i wish more cities in the US had transit like NYC. many cities used to have more robust transit (trains, street cars, buses) and there were these lines called interurbans that were electrified trains that travelled between cities (only one interurban remains, and it travels between Chicago, Il and South Bend, IN) but unfortunately, we've ceded A LOT of ground to the car industry/car culture and have reshaped out cities to accommodate cars.

i hope going forward, the US can more seriously invest in public transit, but it's definitely an uphill battle.

hahahaha, thanks for the accolades mate! Wait till you come to London and that will supersede NYC's benchmark you've built up :)

I went to school in boston and moved to nor cal last year. Can say it sucked driving again haha, moved back to the east coast this year to live in nyc

>i hope going forward, the US can more seriously invest in public transit, but it's definitely an uphill battle.

Recent bills have invested hundreds of billions into public transit, $66 billion for Amtrak alone!

The car market is incredibly lucrative and it’s understandable, but I agree that there should be increased public transportation as well. The more we become dependable on cars, the less common ground we have when it comes to transportation. People care less about getting around when they see their car as the only answer. Trains, buses and other ways can save time, money, and benefit the environment. It’s a slippery slope as well because of the tax side of it. Tampa just introduced a 30 year, 1% sales tax raise to create a transportation system that is “safe, reliable, and equitable”. This proposition happened to get denied during mid terms in November.

I used to use Amtrak at least once a month between NY and DC. I hear that it is the only profitable route and pays for most of the infrastructure. I’m completely OK with that.

>Wait till you come to London and that will supersede NYC's benchmark you've built up :)

Not necessarily. The Tube still shuts down at night most of the week (even with Friday-and-Saturday-nights-only Night Tube finally coming back this July after an over 2-year shutdown). Many of us are routinely on the NYC subway well after the Tube shuts down.

I thoroughly enjoyed Boston as well when I visited. The commuter rails saved so much time!

Ehh, I wouldn't say that London's is objectively better. It's cleaner, sure. But it doesn't run overnight, and is more expensive (sometimes substantially so) for all but the shortest trips.

Yeah it’s absolutely something we take for granted. And it’s funny since sometimes when we do complain about things here you hear “well why don’t you just move,” but honestly as someone without a license or access to a car there’s major portions of this country that would be inaccessible to me if I needed to quickly relocate somewhere else.

While I’m sure knowing how to drive is useful I wish there was so much more reliable public transportation across the rest of the US

NYC is good but go to Europe or Japan or Taipei. Most of their public transportation systems put the US to shame.

Fair point on the night tube/train but I would still argue London’s night bus and bus infrastructure is better than NYC. The night bus system is pretty solid and in my experience felt safer than most NYC buses at that time of night.

Personally, I'm on the other side. I'd much rather stick to driving over public transportation.

I've gone all over the country with Amtrak

A couple months ago, before moving to NYC, I went to Cincinnati via Amtrak, then back, and then to NYC and back, and about 12 days ago I made hopefully the final Amtrak journey to NYC

I love Amtrak but it could definitely stand to be faster, especially along the DC-Boston corridor

I agree on the bus infrastructure point. NYC's buses are hugely dysfunctional. Though the express buses are pretty solid (and actually operate best late at night when there's less traffic!).

Damn, mods so bitter they can't even handle someone else pointing out the convenience of NYC's transit system.

I think if you have no where really important to be (work), you're exploring, you don't live far from transit, and not working off hours, it's pretty good.

NYC is good compared to the rest of the US but once you start traveling in other countries, there are plenty that makes you quickly realize how insanely inefficient and run down our subway system is. It feels like it's being held together by duck tape and paper clip.

I also wish the US isn't so obsessed with giant cars and trucks. Even though some countries have plenty of cars but since the average car is about as big as a mini, traffic and parking seems more manageable.

Other than the fact that it's not 24/7, London's metro and bus infrastructure is way better than New York's. I'd say comparing to European standards, New York is pretty mediocre. Downright bad if you're Swiss or Dutch.

Outdated tech. Tons of delays/cancelled trains. Super, super super fucking dirty, and certainly not as expansive (super dense connections in Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn and queens, but non-existent in areas like deep queens like Bayside or fresh Meadows, Staten island and so on).

New York's public transportation is only impressive if your standards are American.

relative, a bunch taiwanese youtubers visited nyc and their two complaints? dirty streets and shitty public transportation (dirty, slow, expensive)

The amount of areas serviced (even acknowledging the subway desert neighborhoods) and 24 hour access, to me, is the distinguishing feature that makes MTA the most convenient. I've never been to London, but I do visit DC often and use the metro. Coming home after seeing a show at echostage, or going to a bar with friends, the metro is not an option. If I'm staying in the sorta equivalent of the "outer boroughs", the metro is not an option.

I'm also wondering if the Nats have a late extra-innings game, does the nearby line run a few extra trains past the last scheduled train of the night? I'm guessing not, but am curious.

I'm sorry that us ignorant Americans have such low standards compared to you enlightened Europeans.

Yes enjoy the Libertarian hellscape of Florida. Public transportation is communism. But private toll roads are awesome 👍😎

This is a man who's never been stuck on a leaky northbound C for 2 hours because someone took a shit on the tracks at 14th street.

NYC has the most stations of any network in the world lol

More and more lines are getting CBTC with automated trains, similar to London

NYC has more accessible stations than London, not to mention all of our stations and rolling stock feature level boarding, which is not true of the tube

I think you’re heavily biased against NYC. Fine to have criticisms, but I think some of your critiques are overstated. For example, South London is famously underserved by the Underground just like parts of the outer boroughs, and I truly believe that the dirtiness of the subway is blown completely out of proportion. We also have newer trains, and all of them feature air conditioning. Ever been on a deep level tube train in the summer? It’s hell

You can't exactly generalize Europe like that. I went to Norway and the public transportation was okay but certainly nothing to idolize and/or write home about. And in some countries there is barely any public transportation at all.

I commute on the L every day and I always think about how many cars it would take to move that many people. 1,000 people per train, one train every 5 minutes… the bridges are already gridlocked. Yet, out where I live in Queens there are all these “car people” who believe we need to let the MTA wither and instead build more parking spaces. Man, I think they’re bonkers. This city became prosperous because we invested in the subway, and if we want it to stay prosperous, we’re going to have to continue that investment, year after year.

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How right you are. Mass transportation should be as plentiful nationwide as it is in the Big Apple.

It's the main reason I'm still here. There are lots of interesting smaller cities but when I think about no-transportation, strip-mall America, I wanna die. It's truly so alienating. NYC is a pain in the ass in many ways but God, just being able to get around so easily is massive.

Yeah, most of Europe's public transportation networks are very small compared to NYC and most of Europe drives if you don't live in city center... same as here. Plus, the MTA does not close overnight for maintenance like in Japan. In Japan, each train line is a different and separate fare.

New Yorker's feel about the subway the way teenagers feel about their parents, we spend way more time complaining about it than we do appreciating it, but at the end of the day we know how screwed we'd be without it and how reliant we all are.

Go to tokyo or even london and see what a world class transit system is really like.

The Subway is shit and it always has been since I was born. It is dirty, unreliable (Especially if you live in the outer boroughs), and inefficient. Since it is the only alternative to driving or biking we are all forced to tolerate it.

I'm happy for you finding the system nice but having used it my whole life then seeing what places like tokyo have? Yeah fuck the subway.

Tbf we complain about it because we want it to be better. Our parents are our parents.

I think about it this way:

Is New York's transportation better than pretty much 99% of the rest of the US? Yes.

Are there several similar cities around the world that have similar, but better, transportation systems? Also yes.

> I hear that it is the only profitable route

That is true.

> In Japan, each train line is a different and separate fare.

Each system, not each line. It's easy to travel without crossing into different systems most of the time. Also it doesn't even matter too much because you pay by distance, and all you do when going between systems is tap at the gate, so a route from X->Y via one system or via two different systems does not usually change the price that much.

Also the time of the last train really depends. On the Yamanote line the last train is 1:20 and the first is 4:30, so that's only a three hour window, they sure aren't doing huge amounts of maintenance in that.

Hah yeah it’s like 75% of why I live here. There’s literally nothing that makes me more pissed off than wasting time sitting in traffic. I grew up in Baton Rouge which is a nightmare of unplanned suburban sprawl and never ending traffic congestion. And driving your own person vehicle is literally, like you explained in Tampa, the only viable option. It filled me with spite for the inability of the city to think further than it’s nose in terms of any civic or social policy.

It’s funny, my friends and family back home think we’re crazy when we want to walk everywhere that we can, while the hassle of driving/traffic/parking seems like a ton of effort to me now

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While we all love walkable cities here you also have to remember that a lot people don’t want walkable and public transportation otherwise they would’ve voted for a politician who did.

Try living somewhere with no viable public transportation at all like a majority of the rest of the US, your opinion might change a little

True, but NYC’s subway is also underrated even compared to other systems around the world. The extent of coverage and the 24 hour service is amazing.

Right i should be perfectly satisfied with the absolutely subpar service the MTA provides because its better than literally nothing.

At the same time I get taxed up the ass to enjoy the privilege of said shit service in the richest city in the world.

Amazing 👏

So why don’t you move here?

NYC subway and overall transportation is very good if not great but certainly better by far than all other American cities combined because they don’t even exist. But it’s mediocre when compared to some European and Asian cities

> we've ceded A LOT of ground to the car industry/car culture and have reshaped out cities to accommodate cars

The suburban industrial complex is a unique and dangerous menace!

Yeah, I agree. I haven’t had amazing public transit experience in Europe. Maybe I’m missing something but it’s just okay.

The number of Americans who come to NYC and then sing the praises of its 1940s-era subway system on this subreddit is truly stunning, and says way more about the state of American infrastructure than it does about New York.

Paris still has multiple lines where you have to manually open the train door at stations. But no, outdated tech is a uniquely American issue, apparently.

I am in Tampa once a month, can confirm, awful transport. Tampa is in my experience top 10 worst city for transit.

Yeah, Belgium is underwhelming too, even in larger cities. In small towns, they usually have a bus that rarely runs, which is better than US small towns but not by much.

You might enjoy the book “722 Miles” about the history of the subway systems. It helps explain why much of it is the way it is, for better or worse - many cities’ transportation systems bear the marks of their development, when they were built and how they consolidated (or sprang up as a single consolidated system). The older and more disjointed the history, like new York’s, the more unique the challenges.

Which is how it was always supposed to be. Amtrak is a public service. It's like asking the post office to turn a profit.

i pray every day is my last, for then I won't have to experience the public transit system again

Oh so there’s no middle ground between “the subway is perfect” and “fuck the subway” for you?

i'd rather have 12 hour service that worked consistently than 24 hour service that's half assed, expensive, and seriously can't be depended on

Clean , reliable, and efficient.

At least 2 of those should be true for the public transportation system in the richest city in the world at minimum. We currently have none , and if the bar is that low excuse me for being unsatisfied.

How long did NYC to Cinci take?

I doubt people working non 9-5s agree.

Nah I’d take the 24/7 service

Tampa & Orlando truly are the most nightmarishly bad places as far as transportation goes. It's hell. Pure hell.

The busses are dangerous due to the large amount of drunk & sketchy people, there's absolutely no trains, the Ybor trolly has a laughably limited route, I4 is the most deadly road in the country (as far as I'm aware), & the drink drivers are out 24/7. Not to mention all the people driving high, ragingly angry, or just making the most stupid decisions possible behind the wheel.

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London is not end all be all. I would put it on par with NYC. It has its own set of issues as well. Tokyo - yes, agree.

You should check out Switzerland, Zurich in particular, if you think NYC's is good.

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Part of the issue is that the cities are too spread out (because zoning) so even if you throw huge amounts of $ in transit, it’s not enough. Just look at LA. It has a pretty extensive transit system but because the density is too low, doesn’t matter.

You only have to build 1/4 the transit if the buildings are on average 6 stories instead of 1.5 stories

NY actually has this problem in Long Island too. The state built this nice LIRR commuter rail but the houses around the rail are very low density (uh zoning again) so it services way too few people.

I didn't go direct, I had a stop for some days between

You should check out the /r/nycrail subreddit if you’re a fan of trains and transit. Lots of fun and exciting content being shared over there.

I missed it during covid for sure.

This has much more to do with the effects of many decades of corporate greed and lobbying, vs. normal citizens 'not wanting' walkability.

It’s true, we’re spoiled with great transit (yet we love to complain about it). But it’s important to remember there are pros and cons to living in any city. Example: I live about 4 miles from JFK and it takes me 45 minutes to get there on a good day (Uber or Train). In Tampa you could make that trip in 10 minutes. It’s all about perspective

Now travel to any European country or asian country. Nyc has been coasting on early investments. It’s kind of a trash system. Also that’s a lesson on investing on infrastructure decades before it’s needed

You don’t have to make this trade off. Other systems have automated 24 hour coverage and 3 min wait times between trains

The unions have ossified the system and stopped its advance

that line runs through my little hometown in CT. they integrate the train into downtown so everyone can see it, it's very fun. always heard it was slow though

Same

Really? Outside of NYC, most of the city public transportation systems are crap in the US. Maybe the Chicago L or DC Metro are of mention but what beyond that. Look at all the BS LA is going through just to get city rail at LAX. I can get to city center from most large city European airports in minutes on rail.

Yes, lots of people drive to or in outlying European areas but outside of the NE corridor, where is it convenient to take rail city to city in the US? I've traveled a lot on European rail and it's hands down no comparison to US regional or Amtrack. I mean come on, Deutsche Bahn or French SNCF high speed or even regional compared to NJ Transit or Amtrack? That's like comparing a 62 Buick to a 2010 BMW...

Always good to hear an objective fresh take on NYC. Living in & around the city can make you a little salty on the topic of transpo and other city inconveniences but we forget what the alternative to NYC is: nothing. There’s no place like it. While other European cities may have comparable transit the vibes just don’t check out, maybe with Paris being the one exception for me personally. Anyway, NYC ain’t so bad.

Really? You are dodging my question, then why don’t Americans vote for vote someone who will make cities walkable. Survey says most American prefer suburbs which is why our cities look like that.

> It's like asking the post office to turn a profit

Fun fact: It actually did until circa 2006. The Post Office makes enough money to cover its operating costs. Its main issues are retiree pension and healthcare costs. The Post Office is also a bit different from Amtrak in that USPS does not recieve direct subsidies from the government.

Anyways, I agree that Amtrak is a public service and that profit is not a main concern. But I also think it would behoove Amtrak and the public to examine its biggest money losers to see whether or not a restructuring is called for. As an example, one of its biggest losers is the California Zephyr, a 52 hour trip between Chicago and SF. Not only does it cost more than a plane ticket between ORD and SFO, but a plane will also bring you between the two cities 49 hours ahead of the train. Routes this long inevitably face delays along the way, hence its 36% on time rate. Perhaps Amtrak thinks about breaking its route into multiple segments so that it is not so prone to delays? Maybe beef up frequencies in its most crowded segments (Denver to Salt Lake)? Who knows.

I don't think Amtrak needs to make money, but it could probably benefit from someone taking a closer look at how the service could be made better

3 minute wait times sounds ambitious, but I'd be happy with 10 or 12 on the weekend instead of 20.

The Manhattan Bridge moved more people each day across the East River in 1939 then it did in 1989 when most of it was converted into vehicle lanes. The Brooklyn Bridge as well, peaked at 426,000 people per day in 1907 when it had trolleys, versus 178k per day in 1989 when it was then 6 motor vehicle lanes. In fact, all four bridges had more people per day before they had conversions of trolley and rail tracks into car lanes. Old article but the graphic source can be found here

This is how us New Yorkers feel about Europes public rail. We are jealous bc we only have public transport inside of our city.

I live in NJ and work in NYC and do ok without having a car but I'd rather be in FL for the weather

I’m jealous too now

this I wholeheartedly agree with, my bad

FL sucks swamp ass. Miami Beach it’s not that bad bus/train wise (although they go nowhere, they just transport lots of drivers) but I had trouble doing different things. I stayed two years and I was at my breaking point. I hate it with all my might.

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It is the only profitable route and that’s why the trips between DC and Boston are much more expensive than the equivalent trips elsewhere. Like so many other things in this area we subsidize everyone else.

Keep it why I don’t wanna leave ever lol

Same result in Orlando

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Politicians don't respond to the average person. In NYC zoning changes get brought to community board input. Working people sure as hell ain't making those meetings on weekday afternoons, even weekday evenings are too hard for people with kids. Politicians respond to whoever shows up there, which is retired rich people, and not the electorate. Also the electorate in most council elections is retired rich people anyways.

Jesus man you can’t answer my question can you. Politicians are voted by the people. If people want change they must vote. That’s called democracy. You got people who love to complain but can’t bother to vote just once a year.

Motivating voter turnout is an entirely different problem from whether or not people want walkability. People don't decide to vote or not based on how much they like walkability.

I'd love to see trolleys/trams make a comeback in some parts of this city. I know there have been a ton of plans floated, some make sense, some don't. Of course, there's the Interborough Express which might actually happen (and I'm really rooting for this, cause there would likely be a station about 2 blocks from my apartment).

I don't know if it's cleaner, they got fabric seats, god knows what's in there. Also, I'm here to say that real subways are 24hrs.

I'm new to this subreddit, but I kinda get the feeling that the mods are right-wingers, yeah?

Imagine blaming unions instead of economic austerity of public transit funds.

We shouldn't have 24/7 service tho, or it should be limited. One of the failings of the subway is it hard to do maintenance because all the tracks are always in use. System would run better if they could do maintenance from 2am-6am.

i mean, politicians by-and-large suck, our electoral process is deeply flawed, and american voters don't have much in terms choice, which i think is reflected in shitty voter turnout.

that said, i would just counter to your point about "not voting" for the right politicians, voters very often DO vote in favor of pro-transit ballot measures.

I'm not sure, but I would say no only because they actually created a megathread to funnel all the crime posts plaguing the sub into one spot. And on reddit, the right likes to create the idea that all big cities run by democrats are war zones, so I think right wing mods would want all the front page posts to be about crime to keep that fear alive.

Word, that makes sense. I still don’t understand why they’d kill this thread though

You can't just vote for some politician who's going to singlehandedly reverse the fact that it's been illegal to build high-quality urban spaces for 50+ years (and still is, in most of the country). It's going to take many, many years of sustained effort to undo even some of the damage.