mowotlarx OP t1_j6hvmrd wrote
Reply to comment by DataRikerGeordiTroi in Mayor Adams plows ahead with plan to privatize health benefits for 250,000 NYC municipal retirees by mowotlarx
Good or bad for who?
It's good for a short sighted City government that is desperately cutting corners to save a few bucks. This would save about $500 million, about 2/3 of the OT budget for NYPD last year.
It's bad for retirees on a fixed income (who were paid far less than their private sector counterparts) who were promised their health plan as trade off of working for the city and now are being forced to take on a private health plan (calling itself Medicare) that will reduce the amount of healthcare they receive and thin the selection of doctors.
At the end of the day, most of us will be retirees some day and will regret what we do now to cut those benefits.
Pool_Shark t1_j6iktps wrote
Anytime you attach healthcare with profits it’s bad. Private managers will now make all moves to cut costs and ensure largest profit instead of the goal being to maximize benefits for the workers on the plan
DataRikerGeordiTroi t1_j6hyatu wrote
like in general. I, like a lot of folks, have little education or background in this area or matters -- but I want to try to learn.
It is confusing and kinda hard and complex so every explainer helps.
mowotlarx OP t1_j6hzhub wrote
There's been a ton of back and forth on this and you're going to get a totally different spin from the city and from retirees. The base of it is that the city is trying to make budget cuts and save money and think switching retirees to this plan will do so. The retirees are worried this is going to be a lot out of pocket on a fixed income and they will lose health coverage and doctors.
gh234ip t1_j6i3hpa wrote
queensnyatty t1_j6i3sgp wrote
“who were paid far less than their private sector counterparts”
Depends on the role. Doctors, lawyers, and computer programmers—all way less pay in government service. But bus drivers, teachers, and garbage men make more than their private sector counterparts plus benefits on top.
qdpb t1_j6i4gk6 wrote
No that’s wrong. These other professions also made less than they would be willing to accept from the private employers, but the generous retirement benefits convinced them to work for the city.
[deleted] t1_j6owqvg wrote
[removed]
queensnyatty t1_j6i4vnv wrote
Go look up the offered pay for bolt bus and the MTA
mowotlarx OP t1_j6i6sjl wrote
MTA isn't a city agency.
queensnyatty t1_j6i89oo wrote
Ok. Are you still insisting that every city worker makes more than their private sector counterpart or is the retreat into technicalities your way of acknowledging being wrong?
mowotlarx OP t1_j6i9yel wrote
We already know that city workers make less than private sector counterparts. This is well known and I'm not going to argue with you about it.
The MTA isn't a city agency. You are wrong, very wrong, and trying to push me on this? Ok.
qdpb t1_j6ilo2z wrote
I think you’re going to say that Bolt pays less than MTA, but I wasn’t saying they didn’t. I was saying (in this instance) MTA drivers accepted the job based on the total benefits. It doesn’t matter that they could find a worse job elsewhere. We all could, yet we work where we work and expect to get paid what was promised to us.
queensnyatty t1_j6ioxy3 wrote
You responded to my comment with “No that’s wrong.” Which part of my comment is wrong?
app4that t1_j6hx6ja wrote
Counterpoint/opinion would be that many municipal workers may not be paid in salary what their counterparts in private enterprise are paid but they typically get pensions, full health and benefits and more stability in terms of job safety. Additionally, there are a lot of employees in the municipal workforce who engage in schemes to enhance their overtime in the final year of their employment so they make much more in (early) retirement due to the padding in their final year.
As a result of much of this nonsense, taxpayers pay astronomical sums for certain health benefits given to retirees (something unheard of in the private sector) as well as the concept of a fully paid early retirement.
I know not every city or state employee is doing this, but there is such significant graft and corruption in multiple agencies and public unions that this barely makes the news anymore.
Personally, I think it’s time to stop some of the gravy-train and get some of our money back. I’m not sure Adams is the guy to do it or if this is where to start but I think we need someone to step up for the taxpayers who are paying through the nose while getting wrecked financially.
mowotlarx OP t1_j6hzlrp wrote
Tier 6 pension is not as good as being paid more $$ annually and putting into a 401k. This isn't a gravy train. I know people who retired city service after 3 decades and maxed out around $41k salary at retirement. Even with a better pension tier they will be living in poverty despite their pension. It is only as good as the salary is.
When you're talking about people taking advantage of OT, you're mostly talking about cops, firefighters and sanitation. I agree we should go after them specifically, but they aren't the rule.
bittoxic00 t1_j6j3u40 wrote
What city jobs are only paying 41k after entry level?
mowotlarx OP t1_j6j635s wrote
People who retired in the last few years didn't begin at $41k. You're awfully naive if you think most city workers are being land market rate or are getting significant pay bumps just because they've worked for decades.
bittoxic00 t1_j6kofkm wrote
You said they maxed out at 41k salary, who’s making 41k at max let alone entry
mowotlarx OP t1_j6kyt1g wrote
I said I know someone who worked for the city for decades and their highest salary when they left was around there. Welcome to NYC civil service, people are paid like shit and cost of living increases don't keep pace with inflation.
bittoxic00 t1_j6l4jtk wrote
What job? Because I looked up upcoming exams for jobs here.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/dcas/employment/how-can-you-find-upcoming-exams.page
And picked one at random, child welfare specialist.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/acs/about/becoming-cps.page
And learned level one starting salary is 52k a year. Who is maxing out at 41k?
mowotlarx OP t1_j6mi4ik wrote
What don't you understand about someone starting a job at a salary versus retiring at a salary?
bittoxic00 t1_j6mjpg3 wrote
It’s simple, what job is maxing 41k when starting salaries are 50
mowotlarx OP t1_j6mtete wrote
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE WHO BEGAN THEIR CAREER 20 AND 30 YEARS AGO DON'T START AT THE SAME STARTING SALARY THAT PEOPLE DO NOW?!?
The city doesn't increase the salaries of veteran workers to be in parity with brand new hires as a rule. There are people who began here making $25k (or less) when they started. There are people who have worked here for decades making an hourly wage and are still only making $18/hr.
bittoxic00 t1_j6n6cgu wrote
Do you have an example, I just find it unbelievable and if you had proof it would be cool, so there are child specialists working for 30 years that make less than a brand new hire, Idk about that
bittoxic00 t1_j6i69dv wrote
Most people would need to have saved a million dollars to buy an annuity that would pay 41k a year. Add in their social security and it’s a decent retirement, no one is entitled to retire in a high col area
jay5627 t1_j6i6rmk wrote
Yet an institution is able to offer lower wages with the guarantee of certain things post retirement and then take it away once the people finished their careers?
mowotlarx OP t1_j6i747t wrote
Exactly. These retirees were promised these benefits. They're on a fixed income. $100-200 extra per month (plus extra healthcare costs they're now on the hook for) can make or break many people.
bittoxic00 t1_j6i7ijl wrote
Social security age of retirement has been raised since I’ve started working, it’ll likely go up again
mowotlarx OP t1_j6i6q2f wrote
So what do you think people who aren't millionaires, the vast majority of people in NYC, are supposed to do after spending their life serving people in the city where they live? Throw themselves off a cliff?
bittoxic00 t1_j6i7y22 wrote
Florida? Do you also think people who get 4 bedroom rent controlled apartments should get to keep them once their kids move out? I’m not for government changing terms but these once generous handouts need to adapt, no millennial will ever see these
mowotlarx OP t1_j6i8ef0 wrote
You must know a lot of cops who flee to Florida. Because it's not normal for middle and lower income New Yorkers to pick up their life and move to fucking Florida because they retire. That's not cheap.
And don't pretend to speak for Millennials. Any Millennial who has thought for more than a few minutes on this subject knows that us fucking over these retirees means we are only fucking over ourselves. Every time we take away retiree benefits for current retirees we're making it less and less likely we will ever be able to retire.
bittoxic00 t1_j6ibtll wrote
I’ll let you in on a secret, we’ll never retire unless ubi is implemented or you save and invest privately.
soupdumplinglover t1_j6i45in wrote
As a city employee who cannot get overtime, this is really unfortunate. I think the overtime eligible employees should get the new plan, and all the rest should get the existing plan.
[deleted] t1_j6i0t5m wrote
[removed]
bittoxic00 t1_j6hyvec wrote
Every municipal retiree I know pulled that scam, overtime was reserved for those close to retirement for that reason and everyone was in on it. With retirement ages being raised for a variety of reasons this whole ‘screw you, got mine, just let everyone else pay’ mentality will keep younger generations working forever
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments