I want an electric car. A $7500 tax credit will do nothing to make me be able to a) afford one or b) actually be able to get one if I could somehow afford it.

Appeal doesn't matter, actual feasibility matters. For a large swath of the population, electric vehicles are completely out of the question regardless of how appealing they might be. You can't just throw a charger onto the side of your rented apartment and drag a cord 200 feet across a parking lot to your space. Hell, half of the downtown in my city is all street parking to begin with. Tax credits against the sticker price aren't going to have any meaningful impact on adoption. And as the article pointed out, your EV probably won't even count for the tax credit because of a bunch of random arbitrary nonsense anyway.

This is true today, but there are 10's of millions people in the US that still do not have EV's but could charge them at home. A lot more chargers will be added to apartment parking and work parking and shopping malls. There will be chargers that will give you 200 miles of power in 15m everywhere.

What’s your budget?

Yes, I understand that. I feel like you didn't read what I wrote or the article. Like I just said, this tax credit will not have any meaningful impact in EV adoption because it doesn't address current adoption hesitation, partly because it's small, and partly because it only covers a very small and soon to be smaller segment of EVs and is difficult to qualify for. It's covered in the article.

I maybe should have been more clear. While I want an electric car in the overall sense of "it would be nice to have one", I am not in the market for one right now. I've got too many other things I need to take care of so a new car, of any kind, is not in the budget any time soon. My main point was that with the average electric vehicle being at least $20k to $30k more than a gas powered vehicle, a $7500 credit isn't going to be the thing that suddenly makes me able to afford it.

Prices are only that high because of the lack of supply and high demand. In a few years when every auto maker is cranking them out they’ll be as affordable as ICE cars have been.

"But a complex web of requirements, including where vehicles and batteries must be manufactured to qualify, is casting doubt on whether anyone can receive the full $7,500 credit next year."

And this is my problem and why I think this won't really help much, just why does it need requirements! Just give it to everyone! What's the point of making it harder on something you're trying to get popular!

O and let's not forget IT'S A TAX CREDIT! people really don't understand this, it's not a discount! So not only may the vehicle you want not qualify but if it does you won't get the credit for a good while which will definitely cause confusion for some people, o and let's not forget that it's for a product most people buy with a loan...

Yes it will help people but the tax credit in my opinion is a halfass solution and we need something better, EVs are still more expensive then ICE and until that's solved they won't be as popular. I think the government should look into different ways of lowering prices.

Not to mention EVs are too small! You know what would boost their appeal a ton making them bigger since well most Americans don't want small cars(I personally think that's asnine but I'm not the majority) like look at the EVs on market they're just sedans and a few crossovers, where's the big SUVs? not to mention most of the crossovers are on the small side.

Basically my point is a LOT more needs to be do to boost their appeal if they're to be the majority.

Does Tesla qualify for a tax credit anymore? I thought they’ve sold too many?

This will come on very handy when I can finally afford a new vehicle. I just paid my gas gulper off and it's trade in value is under 1k. So it's gonna be a minute.

Ha, I remember back when cars were affordable.

selling a new electric car under $30k will boost their appeal.

this is a new one that gets implemented next year and tesla is qualified again.

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The Chevy bolt is one exception. It's not exactly desirable by any means but it is electric and quite affordable.

Doesn't it become a credit at point of sale at some point though? I know it's not immediately in 2023 though.

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Chevy bolt? Yes it's not the sexiest option but it is electric and under $30k today... Before the $7500 credit

wow you’re right, then why the do I see a bazillion teslas but no bolts

Because the bolt is ugly AF and charging infrastructure that isn't Tesla is a bit of a shit show and slow.

If it's for around town and not road trips though... Could be a really decent option assuming you have a way to charge at home.

The adoption hesitation you have will not affect people that have places to charge now. The credit combined with the realization that gas can hit $7 a gallon or even more at any time will certainly have meaningful impact. People will go looking for EV's and even if the model does not get the rebate, other models will have their prices lowered in response to it.

Chevy Bolt - google it, its not that expensive and quite a bargain in today's insane car market.

In 2024 it’s point of sale

I have EUV and one regular one and they are both quite nicely built. $40k nice? not quite, but has all the advantage of EV brings and then some. Also it's a ton of fun to toss around.

Edit: It also has better build quality than Tesla that's double the price.

Can you realistically road trip in them? Seems like fast charging that isn't Tesla is kind of a crap shoot.

For road trip you get a Tesla, there's no competition right now for charging infrastructure.

My family went with Bolt and suffered it first hand. Every station they stopped by, you had to make a new account add payment info... and do a song and fire dance hoping charging station allows your car to charge. If not, find a new one and rinse and repeat.

The new 2024 Chevy Equinox EV.

The web of requirements is to reduce the economic pain felt on workers during the transition and to take advantage of a new industry growth being in country instead of outsourced.

It's requirements like union made, made in the US, etc.

I read your reply to another comment on this thread and I don't understand why you wrote your first comment in the first place. Let me explain.

You could make this comment on literally any consumer product, that gets a discount/credit, but you don't need at the time.

The problem is not having this thought, but the fact that you felt the need to tell people about it. Just imagine if on every reddit post (or real life comment), everybody would write: "I want this, but I don't need this right now, so why the discount/credit?"

It would be nice if Tesla would make crate style engines to drop into some of the most common older cars. The ones that fail emissions or have burnt out ICE engines could be converted to electric and it would be even more beneficial for the environment then building an entire new car.

Because the average price for an Electric Vehicle is almost $60k right now. A $7500 tax credit doesn't really do much to make it more affordable. (Especially since it is a tax credit, not a rebate. So you still have to pay the full price upfront. And chances of getting the full $7500 credit are pretty slim with all of the fine print.) And there's still an average 8 month waiting list to actually get an electric car these days so, if the tax credit makes them more popular, it's going to take even longer since they can't keep up with demand as it is, so increasing it will only make it worse.

I don't need to be currently shopping for an item to point out that a promotion for that item has some drawbacks or isn't really that good of a deal.

Because Tesla was selling cars which look pretty much the same for more than a decade.

Also, if you look for non-us sources on YouTube, modern Bolt has very good reviews. Considering all “publicity” Tesla (Elon) had over last 12 month, and considering huge number of new EV coming to US market (including quite a few in under $30K segment) … you probably still will see a lot of Teslas… because they all look the same and all other EV will look different from each other.

Tesla opened they charging to everyone in EU… is it the same in US or did they do it only because EU “insisted”?

Removing the stupid “market adjustment markup” would boost the appeal 🤷‍♂️

Don’t buy a tesla

I think Canoo will pull it off, i know Apple was in talks to buy them but pretty sure it fell through. They’re weird looking not the prettiest but they have the best and most modular tech. Everything, steering, battery, braking system, all of it is in the “skateboard” like base of the vehicle.

I don’t really care what it looks like, if it runs well and holds it’s value I’ll buy the shit out of their truck!

Edit: s

People with money memeing.

EU is making not insisted tesla open their chargers for everyone. Us government isn't doing the same. Chances are once tesla figure out how to charge everyone appropriately for using thr chargers, us market will see the changes. I always said it, I think tesla will make its money on having the infrastructure and providing charging solutions rather than selling cars. Where's my robotaxi, truck...etc.

I don't have adoption hesitation. You're just making shit up now. Nevermind, man. You're just trying to start a fight.

Idk about the federal one but in my state we also have a tax credit for it and I believe it's up to the dealership if they what to do it like that which makes it more confusing.

Have you ever owned one or are you just parroting what you’ve heard? Mine has been the best car I’ve ever owned with friends and family loving and wanting one now.

What actually is required is, clean energy, infrastructure to not worry about travelling long distances, longer ranges, cleaner manufacturing (in the UK infrastructure isn't sufficient, and of course common sense wasn't used and there's no ISO single charging Point). Long way to go yet.

2023 Bolt EV $19600 out the door. Dealers give customers $7500 up front. Home charging installation included.

Chevy plant capacity has limited sales. Massive ramp up now. Demand out the roof.

Blazer, Silverado, Equinox in mid 2023. Corvette hybrid in 2023. Corvette full EV in 2024.

Having dealers not price gouge and make you feel completely disgusting during the buying process would also help EVs' appeals. That combined with the looming threat of recession in 2023 has me hoarding money and praying that my 6 year old beat up Toyota RAV4 will last until the economy stabilizes.

I was seriously considering getting the new Prius Prime next year- but reading horror stories online of dealer sleazeballs charging sometimes nearly ten thousand over MSRP scrapped that idea.

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EU incentivized it, and it's mandated to be ccs plugs which makes it way more simple.

Model 3 is a great car (despite the shit you see all over reddit these days), and the bolt is dog shit. I have driven bolt and switched to the model 3 and never looked back. With state credits I got my car for about ~36k, which was not that much higher than the bolt.

Most people don’t own homes and probably never will…

It’s reddit. Tesla man bad.

Why would those state credits not apply to the Bolt as well? Base MSRP is about $12,000 more for the Model 3. I sure hope that spending about 30% more gets you a better vehicle. Cars in the same price category should be compared. These are not even close in price.

$7500 off of a $60K vehicle might not look that impressive, but on a $27k vehicle it feels like a steal.

nah not really. my aunt can't even make an hour trip and back without charging when it's cold outside.

Cost is a huge factor but so is charging. Tesla is the only one that has a good infrastructure, everyone else seems to be dragging their feet. The Tax credit is nice, but it you'd really don't save anything because you're going to need to install a home charger for a EV to even come close to breaking even over a gas car. That's assuming you live in a house and not an apartment building which doesn't have any chargers, so you're dependent on whatever charging network is near you, which for me and my area i'm 30m+ from a non Tesla charger.

Scrap might give you more....but really selling it should get more than 1k

He is though

Me ever owning one would defeat the purpose of me not buying one

Model 3 is a piece of shit

Only problem with the bolt is it charges slowly so really is only good for driving around town and not on road trips

That’s awful logic. Well that answers all the questions I have about your opinion forming.

Yea definitely has tradeoffs for the price

Biggest thing holding me back from an ev right now is charging time and lack of charging infrastructure.

Or under $20k

Get a Tesla then? If price isn't holding you back like me

I refuse to buy a Tesla. Overpriced, uncomfortable ride, and their CEO is a dick. I’m just going to hold off on an ev until 2025 or so when costs come down and we have more infrastructure.

Yea I hear you and don't disagree. I still want a Cybertruck but the cost is a serious concern. No way it's going to be anywhere close to $50k like they said at reveal.

I’m not a fan of him but the cars are pretty good albeit expensive. The supercharging is hard to beat.

Yeah Chevy Bolt would be great but if I dangle a cord from my 2nd floor apartment to change it, it's a lease violation.

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I was just trying to point out that adoption does not depend on your personal circumstance and also give you the reasons why EV sales will continue to grow even faster with a new rebate.

Push your apartment's managing company to install a charging spot or two. A couple managed to get chargers installed in my apartment complex's parking area. If there are enough EVs, they'll likely make money off the charger, too.

Most homes are owned by their occupants in the US (homeownership rate is 65%). I don't think it's directly tracked by the census, but it's likely that most people are part of a household that owns their own home.

Declines in home ownership are often people choosing to marry and/or buy houses later in life, so the odds that someone eventually buys a home are still pretty high.

I did two years ago when I got a Y.

All the reasons

He sucks company sucks

Ownership doesn’t occur until after the mortgage is paid. Banks own the homes, not people. The median age for first time homebuyers are 33. Most loans are 30 years. You don’t own shit until you’re about to die, and that’s if taxes don’t force you out of your home.

If the logic of me not giving money to someone I don’t want to have my money escapes you then I don’t know what to tell you

Let me draw a parallel. Giving a restaurant review online to a restaurant you’ve never been to is both misleading and useless. It makes your uneducated opinion make complete sense. Then again your username definitely checks out so lll stop wasting my time with a troll.

We're talking about installing a EV home charging kit.

None of what you just said, inaccuracies and all, matters in that regard.

This was before several years of price hikes. At the time, the two cars were only several thousand apart and the tesla actually appreciated in value, unlike the equivalent bolt.

Yeah but the guy who owns the restaurant is a known asshole who’s antic through out the neighborhood affect everyone and are impossible to ignore. It stops being an issue of how good is the soup and becomes about fuck that guy and his establishment.

In a vacuum no regular production (Non special edition) car appreciates in value. In a supply shortened window due to pandemic yes cars appreciate in value. People would always prefer to buy a new car if they can buy the same thing for a lower MSRP. What your seeing now will not last long and is only supply constraint issues.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you regarding the Bolt vs EUV. That is also why the bolt was kind of dogged in old reviews. It was not worth it for its cost. Times change and you can no longer buy a Tesla that cheap and the Bolt dropped substantially in price. They no longer are comparable in the price category.

That’s fair and I’m no fan of his either. I put that aside and enjoy a very nice electric car that’s well worth the money.

As I enjoy not paying him, cheers

EVs available in brands they already know and like will boost their appeal. Almost every company has an EV now and once Tesla opens up their chargers to other EVs then their will be a big shift.

Be nice if this applied to battery hybrids too

But will still need the tax liability.

It's not expanding the rebates though, because a shitload of other rebates are expiring.

And again I'm not saying it's going to have zero impact.

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Lmao are you okay

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tax credits mean jack shit when it comes to upfront costs. could give me a mil dollar tax credit but that doesnt help me with the 5+k i have to put down now. and thats not even getting into charging the thing.

IMO covering the down payment and throwing in a basic charging station is the bare minimum to get the ball rolling with EVs

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That is not true. The legal owner is the mortgagor (homeowner) , not the mortgagee (bank).

What if instead of credits we did tax exemptions for Ev’s under 30k

Why did you finance a car worth so little. How is your car worth less than $1000?

Or just charge a few times a week. If you live in an apartment and have a super long commute, what’s the point?

What's it Blue Book for? People buy cars for more than a dealer will pay you trade in.

*capitalism enters the chat*

It's a 2014 I bought used from a dealer, and I've put A LOT of miles on it. I just double checked the trade in value on Edmunds is 1700. The dealership I was as looking to get a better car from estimated it at just under 1k a few months ago, so that's where I had the original number from. Maybe I will just sell it myself and use that towards a down payment, cause I need an upgrade. It's both a work mobile and family commuter.

It's worth more on the blue book, so I'll just sell it myself. Good call.

Ah gotcha, I would suggest selling it yourself

That's the thing - my commute is ~3 miles. An electric car would be great - I just have no way to charge one at work or at home.

With most modern EVs you could cover that sort of usage by charging your car for 20 minutes once a month at a fast charger. Plug in, reply to a few emails or get on social media for 15 minutes and be on your way.

The bolt loosing value and Tesla retaining value is enough of a reason to go with the Tesla, will lead to less money lost overall.

And my opinion still stands, the bolt is one of the worst feeling cars I have ever driven, ICE or EV. It feels so underpowered that the cost savings just isn’t worth it.

Not sure if your paying attention but Tesla is offering big discounts on there new vehicles because no one is buying them due to the credits. Used values are not going up higher then new value costs right now for available cars.

7500 off when the price has increased by 7500 in the last few months is just coming back down to earth. The original tax credits that tesla qualified for once upon a time were 7500 as well.

Just checked, the 2021 bolt is now worth less than its original MRSP, and the 2021 equivalent model 3 is still well above the MSRP I paid for, and I have essentially driven for 2 years for free without a loss in value. I am trying to understand your point.

Try test driving a bolt yourself. If *no one* is buying teslas, then im sure *extra no one* is buying a bolt lol.

How about tax credits for budget EVs only? The wealthy can afford their vanity purchases just fine.

Reuters just published a story that used Tesla prices have dropped 17% in the last month while all other manufacturers used values dropped 4%. The reality is different then you think.

Both things can be true, tesla prices fall, bolt prices fell much further. Just pissing in the wind at this point.

Edit: Just read the article that I doubt you read yourself. A 1/3 of all 2022 teslas are on the market, implying there are an extra ordinary amount of flippers that were making a killing artificially propping up the used car prices. This is going to stabilize the market after they are pushed out, similar to the GPU markets.

My original point still stands, which you keep ignoring. A bolt is a dogshit car to drive, and your opinion will change once you actually get to drive one. No point in spending your time defending the bolt out of all cars lol, there are better cars that you can advocate for in the EV world. Please drive the bolt yourself.

Not defending the bolt. It is what it is. One of the cheapest electric cars on the market. Your the one comparing it to more expensive cars and making false claims that used Teslas are gaining in value. All used cars are dropping in value over all including Teslas.

You just spent all the time defending the bolt? "Also, if you look for non-us sources on YouTube, modern Bolt has very good reviews."

Anyways, ill just continue to drive my tesla that has offset 2 years of depreciation and still over the MRSP I paid over it lol. If I woulda tried saving the extra 5k and got a bolt, I would be in the hole by more than 11k lol.

My point is there theres better EVs there, dont defend the bolt. Its not even worth it as a free car, feels less reliable than a civic with 180k miles on it, youtube pundits aside.

Now I see your confusion. You cannot tell the usernames apart. You quoted someone else. I am done replying to someone that cannot even get that straight.

Have fun bro! Not really feeling like responding to a person that does not read his own articles he quotes either! Happy New Year!