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Thank you so much. I really needed the reassurance because I'm a weirdo that struggles to make friends and this has be upsetting me all day.

NTA...I can't even imagine being offended by that (of course I'm agnostic so 🤷‍♀️).

The other people's reaction definitely seems... Unnecessary. You did nothing wrong for sure OP. You acted in no way rude or anything.

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Nta. But consider getting some new friends, if the group you hang around with is fanatic belivers... you will deffenently not get along in the long run .

If they were just random ppl on the same hike as you, then they just need to grow up and accept some (a lot) dont share their undocumented world view. Dont feel bad, as long as you dont curse them out or call them things you didnt do anything wrong

Definitely don't want those Bible thumpers as friends anyway

I have other friends luckily :) It's just that most live far away, so I wanted to get out there and try to make more friends. I guess I just have to keep looking.

It’s never good to get upset with idiots.

you're better off not hanging out with christians to begin with lol

Maybe you're a weirdo, maybe not, but you definitely weren't the weirdo here.

They were actually my classmates and ironically this was supposed to be a team-building experience. I won't really be seeing much of them anymore since it's the end of the year, so nothing lost. I think I mostly felt bad because so many of them were upset that I assumed I was in the wrong.

The world needs more atheists like us. Don't let their getting offended stop you from saying whatever you want to. They're just facts. Most religious people can't deal with facts. That's not on you!

I don't have a choice lol. A bunch of people in my life are Christian, like my mother. I mostly get along with them tho.

They were mad that atheist knows more about religions than them?

That's common.

I am still searching for the fuck up. There was nothing unusual or wrong that you did OP. If you sharing your factual knowledge offended them then you should also be offended by their sharing of their fictional knowledge. IMHO there is no better fun than to pick up a verbal fight with a religious fanatic (if the person has some sort of logic and sense in them), the most fun is to watch them fall into their own logical grave that they keep on digging by their own previous logics. But anyhow, the idea is not to have fun always but I have seen people started to actually understand and question their own belief and the propaganda religious texts once they have been through some sort of rational thought process and that brings joy to me and I am not at all ashamed of it and I feel no-one should be either.

who would want to be friends with religious zealots like them anyway

Sounds less like you fucked up and more like they're a bunch of ignorant assholes tbh

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People that touchy about their religion are afraid that you might have a better argument because they aren't fully believers. I always call them out on that when they get touchy about a subject. Shuts them the fuck right up.

The only FU I see is there is no Star of David biblically. There is a star of Rephan mentioned in Amos 5:26. The Babylonian name for the god of Saturn.

The thing is...they definitely shouldn't be so touchy and if this is the only reason there are issues now than that's on them. I doubt this is the only reason though. I have found in my life that people who claim to be atheist are as evangelical about their atheism as Christian can be about their Christianity. Second a pentagram and a star of David are two very different and distinct things. The star of David is also more a Jewish symbol than a Christian symbol. I highly doubt the person whi drew this "star" in the dirt was of either persuasion. Most likely some ill informed kid thinking they were being edgy and snarky

There’s a few Egyptian kings in the Bible that were also irl. Ramesis I think?

Definitely did nothing wrong here. But also, wtf did they think was gonna happen? Like you step inside it and are suddenly stuck in place while Satan himself possesses you?

Jfc.

Imagine proclaiming a Middle-Eastern Jewish carpenter as your messiah and personal savior and being offended by a Star of David.

Who cares about what they think. If they're offended that easily they're just too sensitive, and you prolly don't need them as your friends

You are not the asshole here. Instead of being defensive they could have engages in a discussion instead they did not and possibly assumed the worse about you. You are putting yourself out there and they did not reciprocate. You’re doing fine, just maybe stay away from snowflakes. Its not your fault they don’t know their Judeo-Christian religion as well as they carry themselves. You are practicing tolerance. They are not. Keep calm and carry on.

I know I wasn't there, but just from quote...it sounds more like they were offended because they they were saying not to step on it out of respect and in their eyes you just pretty much went "Nah, it's fine to step on."

I mean I fully could be wrong, I don't know the entire conversation just your response, but that's just sorta how it reads.

You sound pretty normal to me. All my friends are a bit nerdy.

Amen. Fuck them.

NTA I probably would have laughed or at the very least smiled because that's a sarcastic thing I'd say. Plus I'm Catholic.

Edit: realized I'm not in that subreddit. But regardless no f up here imo.

Oh different regions create different people. The same religion in one place may not even follow another's conduct. I'm an atheist and most of the people I hang with are either catholic or Christians. And as a socially inept person I've said a lot of things in contempt relating to these two factions. Nothing has ever gone wrong and we are still great friends to this day. You aren't in the wrong - it's just with the wrong people. Of course I don't mean to surround yourself in an echo chamber or be more antagonistic. Just let things flow naturally and not fret over what's spilled.

I (as a christian) would be happy to know that you could tell me anything about the Bible. I've never heard that about David but the biblical texts goes further back in history than we have corroborating documents so David or someone else it's going to be true about someone

You don't control how other people feel 🤷🏻‍♂️ How they feel is their problem.

I am not socially inept. In person, I'm actually pretty good with people without much effort. And this could've totally happened to me, because I'm a huge history nerd and a very well informed atheist. I even read the bible. All of it.

This is no FU. This is people being pissy about their fairy tales. You have no duty to protect them from simple truths. You weren't craping on their beliefs. Just sharing knowledge and being you. Maybe a little nerdy, but that's no crime.

Don't feel bad about this. You sound like a person I'd love to hike with. Especially where there's something interesting to see and talk about.

Just wondering if they knew it was a Star of David already and were saying not to step on it as just a sign of respect for another religion? I dunno I wasn't there, but just trying to find maybe another reason why they got upset?

Just need to read the room and maybe play neutral sometimes. Getting a weird/bad look after saying what you did the first time isn't bad but read the room and don't double down if you know they're Christian.

It's not even about their religion tbh they could've spoke up but telling you not to step on the star of david definitely makes your phrasing sound like you have a problem with them rather than an interest in the subject.

I wouldn't worry, the fact you brought up faith sounds like the scope of conversation was already poor enough to lead with much else lol

This is TIFU...

as a jew, you really dont wanna befriend xtians like that anyway — if they think other religions are ~of the devil~ they'll absolutely try to convert you. less of a fuckup, more of a dodged bullet imo. (though still don't step on a star of david lol)

Classic Jesus or Republican Jesus? Big difference. Sounds like they were the latter.

Let me get this straight.... you went out with a bunch of judgemental Christians to help your social anxiety? Shoulda talked to me first. I left Christianity because of the anxiety.

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Hello! Practicing Christian here! Those people were idiots and you shouldn’t feel bad at all. A lot of the early stuff in the bible is more of a lesson than historical fact (especially genesis) and you didn’t even go there, just pointed out an interesting fact about historical records. And to mistake the star of david for a pentagram is beyond brain dead. I get the feeling these are the type of people you definitely did not want to impress.

self-censored because I just realized this wasn't /r/atheism

No, what you did is fine. Only an insecure Christian would be offended by such a comment, especially coming from an atheist.
You might take the next opportunity to explore history of a character like David. You can tell some amazing history (if you know it) and impress your religious friends. Just be careful (both sides) not to try to 'convert' anyone.

David is discussed in the New Testament too. The Star/Seal of Solomon wasn’t uniquely Jewish and wasn’t associated until a few hundred years ago…

There’s no fuck up here, if these Christians didn’t want to learn anything.

There's also no cell phones biblically but bible beaters still know what they are.

If you claim to be religious and can't tell the difference between a pentagram and a star of david, not only should people correct you, they also should not aspire to be your friend.

They sound stupid

The bib goes back further than we have corroborated history? According to who?

That statement is patently false. There is far more recorded history, corroborated by multiple sources and physical observations than the mythology/historical fiction that is in any of the ≈500 versions of the supposedly immutable and inerrant christian bible.

The Bible can’t get basic dates correct, can’t get basic geography correct, can’t get basic biology, mathematics, etc. correct. How can it be trusted as a viable source of history?

LoL you are acting on the belief that all Christians are taught the same thing. Most Christians have no clue of the very thing I'm speaking of.

Your comment is like me saying all men can tell a woman by looking at her eyes..

I’m fairness, this applies to just about every group of people you can think of.

The key to all this is to stop worrying what other people think. Getting older often helps in this regard as you learn by experience that most people’s opinion on you or anything else isn’t worth sh1t.

I'm saying they know what things are outside the bible.

Are you purposely misunderstanding because you think it's funny or are you just this dense?

You are the dense one.

Take a deep breath….are you ok? What triggered you there?

There is no such thing as a Star of David except for what the kenites have expressed.

I don't think I'm funny and at least I'm trying to teach people something.

They know things that are outside of the Bible could you explain further because that sentence is b*****

Most Christians don't even know what's inside the Bible much less what's outside of it.

I’m a Christian and would not be offended by anything you said. Granted, I am a Christian that has different beliefs than other Christians. Like one being that I don’t think the story of Adam and Eve is historical fact. Same with Sampson and Noah’s Ark. I think Goliath was big for the time but maybe like 7ft no bigger than that. I think God created the sciences to create our universe over millions of years and that evolution is how we got here and that we aren’t the only life in the universe let alone our galaxy. Oh, and the main is that I don’t think being gay is a sin. Two consenting adults that love each other aren’t heathens. Love is kind of the main thing that god preaches lol.

It's possible, but judging by their faces and body language I don't think that was the case. My bf thinks the same thing as me. Because I also mentioned to one of them that after I left the church I've started exploring other religions to learn about them. She didn't seem impressed and told me to "remember my roots", coz she knows I grew up Christian. Which is funny, because I'm Indian, so if we're talking about my roots, wouldn't the religion in question be Hinduism? (This is mostly a joke, I know what she meant)

It's possible, but judging by their faces and body language I don't think that was the case. My bf thinks the same thing as me. Because I also mentioned to one of them that after I left the church I've started exploring other religions to learn about them. She didn't seem impressed and told me to "remember my roots", coz she knows I grew up Christian. Which is funny, because I'm Indian, so if we're talking about my roots, wouldn't the religion in question be Hinduism? (This is mostly a joke, I know what she meant)

That's what I thought. Isn't Jesus sometimes referred to as "the son of David"?

Awww, I wish I could go hiking with you too! I need the exercise lol.

Of course, I would never dream or trying to convert or deconvert anyone. I was a Christian myself and I lost my faith. It was a really painful experience.

Haha, yeah.

I know right? I thought I was doing a good thing, because I was like "Hey, even a doubting atheist like me cannot deny David, a key figure in the bible, didn't exist. There is undisputed proof of him existing, so you guys might be on to something." You know? I didn't mean for my comment to challenge their faith or anything like that.

I know what you mean, some atheists can be weird and I definitely was when I first lost my faith. But I have grown a lot and I respect all religions. I can see the beauty in religion, I love how the festivals unite people, I love how some people find comfort in it and all of that. I don't hate religions, in fact I want to learn more about them. And yes, I know the star of David is more of a Jewish symbol. Also, I did try to make the situation better by explaining that I've taken to learn about other religions and I particularly found this David story fascinating. But that just made it worse, because one of the people told me to stop straying and remember my roots (coz she knows I used to be Christian). She sounded annoyed when she said that, so I just kept quiet after that.

I was also careful to not step on it, but more out of respect for Judaism lol.

Mate, if you feel like you can’t share your insights and be respected then you just need to recognise this isn’t you failing at being social, it’s simply that those people aren’t your tribe.

You don’t sound like a social idiot, just socially sensitive, which means you likely weren’t actually being obnoxious. Their reactions could have been anything. In my experience, most folk aren’t actually all that respectful of other religions symbols, so I think you were likely on the money in thinking they thought it was something more occult and not a Jewish symbol.

So don’t let this kind of thing cause you to second guess or try and conform to a certain type of of attitude. If this scenario should tell you anything, it should be that you need to be more unapologetically you, and ask more questions so that you aren’t guessing so much at the motivations and thoughts of those you interact with

See, you're the kind of Christian I wouldn't be afraid of hanging out with. But even if you were a traditional Christian, we could still be friends if we could respectfully debate stuff like this.

We are classmates and this was a team-building thing I signed up for. I didn't know they were this sensitive. If I did, I would have kept my mouth shut because I wouldn't want to cause conflict.

That's interesting, thank you for sharing.

That's because that's how they trace his claim to throne of Israel. But the whole point of the New Testament, from about Acts onwards, is to demonstrate that with Jesus' death, salvation was no longer just for the people of Israel (read, the Jews), but for all people. Peter still spends a lot of time preaching to and converting Jews, instructing them on new practices, but Paul felt it was his specific mission to take the Word to gentiles, especially Romans.

What likely offended them, probably had nothing to do with Judaism though. You said that David was the oldest figure from the Bible that existed 'that you can prove.' To most Christians, the Bible itself is a historical document, so no further proof of the existence of say Jacob, Isaac or Abraham would be necessary or for it to be collaborated from other sources.

Even still, I know plenty of Christians, that wouldn't be offended simply to hear that expressed, so they still sound like fairly uptight people.

Thank you :)

Bleh, if they get upset from something like that it is not your fault. And they are definitely not acting like Christians should.

Grew up in a church. Star of David was the equivalent of a pentagram. Drawing them might summon a Jew or someshit.

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Wasn't a good church, but I just got a little chuckle from the idea of the church I grew up in having respect for the star of david.

My dude, they're Christians. I wouldn't worry what they think. They believe in a massive bearded fairy and 'his' zombie sun for goodness' sake.

'Oooh noooo, don't step on the star that someone drew, you might upset our particular non-existant deity!'

Come now, you can find better friends than literal crazy people

Acknowledging proven science doesn't mean you can't believe in God or vice versa.
Creationism does not exclude evolution or vice versa.

I don't get why so many people think this way.

screw ideologues. i hate religious people and they are fun to mess with

Summon a jew - lol. Why not? I could always make a new friend. :-)

It's most likely a thing of respect, Judaism and catholicism are heavily Christian centered they just probably felt like you were being disrespectful, to think a star of David is on par with a pentagram or pentacle is a little out of touch. I feel you because I had once lost my own faith and studied other religions but trying to be a know it all around generally close minded individuals will never go over well, understandably so.

Ramses isn't mentioned in the Bible, that's from a movie. David is only mentioned in biblical literature.

The earliest historically verifiable person in the bible is Ben-Hadad II, with a single stone inscription about defeating another king.

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They seem like a barrel of laughs! Keep offending them so you don’t have to hang out with them anymore.

Don’t have anxiety. It’s ok to let others have fantasies about magical beings but it doesn’t mean you have to play along. Just respect their right to have ridiculous fantasies. You didn’t fuck up by not bending over backwards to not offend their ridiculous notions. It’s not your fault they want to believe those things.

People who remain devoutly religious in this day and age have a responsibility to develop and maintain a healthy sense of humour - seems they have not

It's OK to summon them, just don't let them lay any eggs/s

That's grim. In one of the churches in my area there's even a chandelier that's shaped like a star of David.

To he clear, this church had more than a few Aryan bibles floating around between members.

I'm trying this during tax season

I get you, but I swear I wasn't trying to come off as a condescending know-it-all. I thought I was just sharing a fun fact.

Nah I believe it, but that's how people will see it, especially if they don't know much about their own religion which is usually the case sadly

Thank you! My own mother has been a Christian for like 40 years, but I know so much more about the bible than her. It's weird.

Someone might want to tell them that the guy that's supposedly there to save their soul was a fucking undead Jew.

Wait wait wait, are you telling me that there's Christians who understand that the fantastical and often conflicting stories of the bible aren't historically factual?

Fuck, why couldn't you be around when I got a month of detention at a Catholic school for questioning some of the conflicting accounts. (Also, my detention punishment was to read the bible, which I don't think they grasped the irony of...)

Unfortunately a lot of us believe that faith is enough to excuse a considerable lack of thought. It’s one of the main reasons why Christianity as a whole gets such a bad rep.

>if you feel like you can’t share your insights and be respected

"Of what use is a friend who can only be approached in the right way?"

One of the most valuable purposes of a friend is that they know when you're talking out of your ass. Not every comment is a Papal pronunciation and they need to know not to treat it as such.

>that the fantastical and often conflicting stories of the bible aren't historically factual?

I personally believe that the conflicts are deliberate, God's message to us to be cautious in being convinced that we know his will. He could appear tomorrow and clear it all up if it was just an accident.

"A zealot does what he thinks God would do if only God had all the facts of the matter."

This sounds like it could be some Family Guy bit

I bet it was the proof of David comment. No matter how you meant it, you did say (albeit indirectly) that there is no proof of much of their beliefs.

If they don't know you very well, it's pretty reasonable to think that you might be trying to start an argument.

My comment was expectedly downvoted. They are that sensitive. They had the conflict, not you. Don't take ownership of thier problem.

> She didn't seem impressed and told me to "remember my roots", coz she knows I grew up Christian.

Hearing this line amuses me. It's like some people can't conceive the concept that people can change over the course of their life, and that it's not a failing to do so.

Heard a new term for that called religious trauma. I’ve never heard of the not stepping on the Star of David thing. Even in an organization you’ll find people interpreting things differently. Hugs for getting out of your comfort zone

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Ikr?! It's just SO much easier when you have someone to actually talk to about interesting stuff. Looking at it this way, I wonder if those people who got offended by your explanations maybe just are lazy and looking for an excuse to stop being active ...