DC’s cafe scene is great but lacks seating

Submitted by ActuaryPersonal2378 t3_121rgo0 in washingtondc

I’ve been eating and drinking my way through the DC cafe scene and there are so many unique spots and it’s been so fun to cross places off my list.

One thing I’ve noticed though is that a lot of places really are lacking when it comes to seating. I was at the Wydown this morning and it’s not that all of the seating was being used, but there was a severe lack of spots to sit in general. Given that it’s so rainy out today, it’s just unfortunate that myself and others couldn’t really even enjoy the spot because there were so few seating options.

Coffee houses are one of the remaining public spaces available and it’s unfortunate how many spots in DC, while great, don’t really accommodate for sitting end enjoying your coffee.

Although I realize I might just be romanticizing the idea of sitting in a coffeehouse on a rainy day reading a good book.

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lc1138 t1_jdn16jc wrote

I don’t know where you’ve been exactly, but I find a lot of places did away with a good amount of seating they had when Covid hit. And I’m not really sure why they didn’t bring it back since the industry is hurting, but that could have something to do with it

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NPRjunkieDC t1_jdn2iwl wrote

Pitango has plenty of seating. Tatte locations have tons of natural light, which I think makes it very pleasant

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veloharris t1_jdn3g1h wrote

Pitango, baked joint, tryst, Line Hotel, Ebenezer's

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MoreCleverUserName t1_jdn6cpq wrote

Replying to lc1138 (#2,355,397)

Because they don’t want people camping out. They don’t make any money off of people who grab a table with a laptop and sit all day nursing a single latte (which more people do these days, since more are working from home), but those campers take up spaces that could be used to serve more guests.

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MoreCleverUserName t1_jdn6m97 wrote

>Coffee houses are one of the remaining public spaces available and it’s unfortunate how many spots in DC, while great, don’t really accommodate for sitting end enjoying your coffee.

But coffee houses aren’t a public space; they’re businesses, and they’re there to make money, not to provide a village square type of setting. DC has some fantastic libraries that are perfect choices for camping out all day with a book.

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Sheikh_Yerbuti t1_jdna9uv wrote

Can't speak for the Wydown on 14th St, but the one on H St uses the multi-level Apollo lobby / lounge area as its seating.

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resdivinae t1_jdncfrz wrote

It’s because the WFH crowd will grab every table to camp out all day, turning the café into a coworking space.

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df540148 t1_jdnk4yg wrote

Replying to resdivinae (#2,356,594)

Is there honestly a difference with the crowds pre-covid? I don't go out mid week but if we go out to a cafe/bakery on the weekend I'm generally shocked when there's any available seating anywhere.

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HelloCantaloupe t1_jdnnwko wrote

I could be mistaken, but I’m pretty sure DC zoning limits seating at coffee shops to 18 seats as they are classified as prepared foods shops. This applies to places without a kitchen / full menu of food. If a place serves food and has a kitchen, they are entitled to more seats.

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MoreCleverUserName t1_jdno6b5 wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,357,584)

You mean the executives that are closing Starbucks locations and blaming it on crime when we all know it is low revenues and the occasional union busting? I’m sure they want you to buy your coffee and gtfo too, not sit there all day Pretending to work.

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ay_deeg t1_jdo71u3 wrote

Dans cafe has plenty of seating.

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Existing365Chocolate t1_jdo7rms wrote

Coffeeshops are businesses and people sitting down for hours after ordering a $5 drinks costs them money

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DCJoe1970 t1_jdobk41 wrote

Kafe Leopold in Georgetown has great seating.

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VulcanVulcanVulcan t1_jdoeel5 wrote

I don’t think it’s any different in other American cities honestly. The era of bringing your laptop and sitting there for hours taking up tables off of a $8 bill is over it seems, and I think that’s a good thing.(Maman in Georgetown is a notable exception, I guess because of GU students.) The tables should be taken up for a shorter period of time so others can use them.

If you want to camp out for hours, there are many Starbucks around DC that will let you do that.

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ActuaryPersonal2378 OP t1_jdogupv wrote

Replying to VulcanVulcanVulcan (#2,360,552)

I wasn't trying to camp out for hours but it would've been nice to have been able to sit at a table to eat instead of walking around in the rain. Folks are acting like people are going to start camping out if a coffee shop has a few more tables/benches

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HowardTaftMD t1_jdoikei wrote

First, would love to hear some of your favorite spots with seating!

Second, yeah I agree there's a lot of great spots that have like just the minimum amount of seating and it's not cozy. But there's certainly plenty I love for their ambience and seating as well! For the most part I won't go if the coffee isn't good too, but here's some of the examples that come to mind:

The Coffee Bar on a nice day is so nice outside. La Colombe in Blagden Alley is lovely. Dolcezza at the Hirshorn lacks real people usually because it's a museum (like it's mostly museum goers, not like the romantic version of a coffee patron) but the setting is cool. I think it's Peregrine at Union Market? But that area has a nice vibe. Sweet Science was pretty cool. Compass Coffees 7th st. Roastery location is great.

One place I desperately miss is this little cafe in Chinatown (might have been called Chinatown cafe?) In a skinny brick building that always felt like what I wanted a downtown cafe to feel like. Rip to that shop.

I spend most of my time in VA these days but I definitely love a lot of DC coffee spots.

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priyarainelle t1_jdoinrd wrote

Replying to VulcanVulcanVulcan (#2,360,599)

This isn’t Europe, it’s America. Two different cultures re: coffee drinking and cafes.

It’s not some monumental ask for one to be able to sit and enjoy a latte or some other filter coffee drink (as opposed to an espresso) while reading a book or chatting with friends. Or, perhaps, just finishing the drink you just bought - which was probably $8-14 in this city.

I understand what you’re saying, but “camping out” is on the extreme end of things.

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lc1138 t1_jdoisds wrote

Replying to MoreCleverUserName (#2,357,821)

Clearly people don’t know that the innovation of Starbucks is the creation of the experience of sitting and staying in a coffee shop. I’m not talking about their current controversies. Do your homework.

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priyarainelle t1_jdokpoo wrote

I can’t believe we’ve reached a point in society where asking to have a damn seat after you bought a coffee for $10+ (not including the tip you were probably asked to add at checkout) is considered wholly unreasonable.

Some coffee shops I’ve enjoyed: Any Tatte

Baker’s Daughter

Le Pain Quotidien or Peregrine Espresso in Eastern Market - right around the corner from East City Bookshop, one of my fave bookstores :-)

Penn Social - now converted into a coffee shop during the day

Call Your Mother West End - attached to a hotel with ample lobby seating

Dolcezza in the Hirshorn - outdoor terrace is super nice to sit at, weather permitting

Albi/Yellow (Navy Yard), although I think they are is relocating so I’m not quite certain

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MoreCleverUserName t1_jdolcfx wrote

Replying to lc1138 (#2,360,997)

Starbucks was founded in 1971 and went nationwide in 1986. Pretty sure most businesses adapt their business model in response to the market over the course of 50 years. Especially when you consider the difference in commercial rent in 1970’s Seattle to today’s Washington DC, you can see how a low-margin establishment with a low per-head spend cannot survive without high customer turnover. Customers camping out all day isn’t conducive to high turnover.
I can put that in PowerPoint if that helps :)

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priyarainelle t1_jdoqxdg wrote

Replying to celj1234 (#2,361,670)

What would you call a long time? I do tons of computer work (writing, editing, social media, etc.) and a lot of my regular “work” is just wandering around and knowing where to go so that I can make recommendations to people. From what I’ve observed, no… People camping out at coffee shops isn’t the big issue that this comment section is making it.

Most people have things to do and, in this city especially, there are many conversations that can’t be had in public. Plus, many places aren’t really super comfortable to post up in.

There’s a small minority of people who do hog up space and sure they are very noticeable when that happens. But it is overly dramatic to pretend as though the few people who do camp out at coffee shops are impactful enough to warrant a place literally restructuring their business model - which is based on volume and add-on items, anyway. Not dine in.

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quelquunquimadit t1_jdos5gd wrote

You’ve got some good suggestions in here. I’d add Emissary on P in Dupont to the list!

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Existing365Chocolate t1_jdouc1o wrote

Replying to priyarainelle (#2,360,982)

> It’s not some monumental ask for one to be able to sit and enjoy a latte or some other filter coffee drink (as opposed to an espresso) while reading a book or chatting with friends.

This is entirely fine and expected

However a ton of spots are taken up by WFH warriors camping at a coffeeshop all day

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nesta1970 t1_jdouk5l wrote

Varies a lot by area but it Georgetown has a few nice cafes with plenty of seating like blue bottle and Compass on Wisc avenue.

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Messy-Recipe t1_jdovdnb wrote

Replying to MoreCleverUserName (#2,356,024)

Need more public spaces with tables nearby businesses where you can refill

But ofc that'd end up with the spaces turning to piss puddles & the businesses getting replaced by some giant capital firm that can pay the higher rent for park-adjacent real estate

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priyarainelle t1_jdoweg3 wrote

Replying to Existing365Chocolate (#2,362,167)

I’m so glad you agree with me that people “camping out” is an entirely different issue and expectation than what OP has, which makes the initial comment in this thread unnecessarily harsh and mostly irrelevant to the discussion that OP started. 🙂

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priyarainelle t1_jdowr3p wrote

Replying to Messy-Recipe (#2,362,362)

There are places where the wi-fi password is printed on the receipt and internet access is timed.

That way, workers don’t have to confront people who “camp out”, and the person is inconvenienced (unless they have their hot spot with unlimited resources).

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swampoodler t1_jdowum4 wrote

Greatly agree that the cafe scene lacks appropriate seating.

Couple that with WFH people camping out all day and the classic cafe vibe can be elusive.

Then there’s all the places that try to minimize seating to encourage you to just get up and go.

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apendleton t1_jdowwdz wrote

Rent is a major cost center for coffee shops, and urban rents are especially high. It probably just doesn't pencil out, cost-wise, to price an hour's stay into every cup, given what square footage costs here. There are great coffee shops in the suburbs that can afford to be much more generous with space (maybe give Vigilante in Hyattsville a go, or Northside Social in Clarendon).

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Vazmanian_Devil t1_jdoxvsf wrote

Replying to priyarainelle (#2,362,551)

I don’t lounge at coffee shops, I was just picking apart your point. It’s somewhere in the middle. Yes, don’t stay all day and make a coffee place your WFH situation, not unless you’re being a good patron and spending a lot. But cafes wouldn’t exist as a business model unless the option to stay there wasn’t on the (coffee) table.

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lux_ehterna t1_jdoz34l wrote

Replying to VulcanVulcanVulcan (#2,360,599)

> But in Europe, a lot of coffee shops want you to sit and enjoy your espresso, and then leave

Off topic, but I'm not sure that's true. IME this varies a lot by country. Italy, sure. Greece, people commonly hang out for hours.

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Inevitable_Force_822 t1_jdp8379 wrote

Replying to HowardTaftMD (#2,360,971)

It's in Silver Spring, outside DC itself, but my partner and I love Kaldi's. It has a full breakfast menu, so it may be that it gets around the zoning laws mentioned in an earlier post. It does get crowded on weekends, but there is lots of seating, and we go right when it opens and there's plenty of space.

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kirksy_jenkins45 t1_jdp9knq wrote

Buffalo & Bergen. Seating inside and out, free WiFi and great sandwiches

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GloomyPapaya t1_jdp9ovu wrote

Replying to MoreCleverUserName (#2,356,024)

Good god. You’re intentionally taking the word “public” so literally just to dispute their sentence. Sub in “third” for public. This person did not indicate they are trying to “camp out all day with a book.” The book seems to be a side thought for them because they’re trying to explore and enjoy all the cafes in the city. Regardless, cafes have alwaysssss been used by people who read books, newspapers, and magazines. They’re not camping out like WFHers.

It sucks that we do not have more indoor third spaces. And no, I do not want to go eat a pastry in a quiet library. I love libraries, but it’s a complete different vibe.

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GloomyPapaya t1_jdpa1m5 wrote

Replying to priyarainelle (#2,360,982)

Exactly. Sitting down to read a book while you eat & drink is no worse than people scrolling on their phone and not near the issue as people camped out on a laptop. All cafes becoming takeout only would suck.

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GloomyPapaya t1_jdpa8ds wrote

Replying to priyarainelle (#2,361,811)

I visit cafes a lot too and also haven’t noticed it being a major issue. Usually if I’m struggling to find a seat at a spot that has a lot of seating it’s because people are sitting around chatting, not working or (GOD FORBID) reading

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Docile_Doggo t1_jdpbil0 wrote

Replying to Messy-Recipe (#2,362,216)

I don’t usually bring my laptop with me to cafes, but when I do, I never leave it unattended on a table. If I have to go to the bathroom, my laptop, phone, and wallet are all coming with me. But I’ll leave a jacket, book, or bag on the table to save my spot.

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John_Mason t1_jdpfms6 wrote

Replying to priyarainelle (#2,361,188)

> I can’t believe we’ve reached a point in society where asking to have a damn seat after you bought a coffee for $10+ (not including the tip you were probably asked to add at checkout) is considered wholly unreasonable.

It seems like there’s three types of people who go to coffee shops:

  1. Buy coffee to-go and leave.
  2. Buy coffee and sit at the cafe while drinking it.
  3. Buy coffee and sit at the cafe for multiple hours while working/studying/reading.

The coffee costs the same for all three customers, but the third group of people makes it much harder for the second group of people to exist. Almost every time I go to Compass on 7th Street or Spring Valley, it’s filled with people from Group 3. Not really sure how to change this besides putting a time limit on tables.

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John_Mason t1_jdpfxfx wrote

Replying to ActuaryPersonal2378 (#2,360,802)

> Folks are acting like people are going to start camping out if a coffee shop has a few more tables/benches

Have you been to Compass Coffee on 7th Street or Spring Valley? That’s been exactly my experience at both locations. I think it’s totally reasonable to have tables available for people to enjoy their drink, but that requires people to enjoy their own beverage and move on.

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tracyak13 t1_jdpjdfc wrote

You should check out The Line if you haven’t already

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apendleton t1_jdpkb2g wrote

Replying to TitsMageesVacation (#2,364,033)

I'm only saying experiences that depend on access to cheap real estate are harder to come by here, and one of the trade-offs of choosing to live in an expensive city is having to go to the burbs sometimes to experience them, just like one has to go to the burbs to go to Ikea, pavilion-style concert venues, a Korean spa, etc. Whether the experience of sitting in a coffee shop is worth the trip is will vary from person to person, obviously.

That said, I do sometimes bike out to Vigilante if the weather's nice. It's about a half hour's ride from my house, and it is, indeed, a nice place to hang out.

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MCStarlight t1_jdpojy5 wrote

Tryst in Adams Morgan has lots of seating.

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Time-Ad-3552 t1_jdpygh2 wrote

What an absolute fucking waste of time this thread is

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mcd_sweet_tea t1_jdpyl76 wrote

Can you please name some of the places you've been, the ones you recommend the most, and lastly the places you need to still to need to hit?

Thanks in advance!

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SmarmyMarmot24 t1_jdq25a3 wrote

Tryst seems to have removed their couches and cozy chairs at some point in the last year. Not sure if it was covid related (which is fair), but was really disappointing to see that the last time I was in there.

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PhoneMak2 t1_jdqf8w0 wrote

The only Cafe vibe that’s acceptable to me is Dan’s Cafe. 🎤 drop.

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MamboNumber1337 t1_jdqhmvx wrote

Replying to MoreCleverUserName (#2,355,997)

So the space could be used to serve more guests, but they took it away to so squatters wouldn't stop them from serving said guests?

Seems like less sitting space exacerbates the issue of squatters, versus something like a mildly-enforced time limit and more spaces to sit.

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sagarnola89 t1_jdqj20a wrote

Interestingly, I think this is why Barnes and Noble is doing so well despite Amazon and online ordering (I just read they are making record profits and opening more stores). It is kind of best of both worlds - cafe atmosphere but also a library-like atmosphere where you are encouraged to sit and read all day.

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Thiemy t1_jdqv7sv wrote

Replying to VulcanVulcanVulcan (#2,360,599)

Austrian here, we spend all day in coffee houses to study, work, read the newspaper (most Viennese coffee houses have all major newspapers/magazines there for free), meet friends. Noone is forced to leave if they don‘t keep consuming - same is true for restaurants, by the way.

I don‘t think we would have a coffee house culture if making money was the main incentive for these businesses. DC has better coffee than Vienna, but no coffee house culture (I‘d argue because of a pervasive capitalist mindset).

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Lorgebeansnark t1_jdqvgku wrote

Replying to John_Mason (#2,364,484)

When I lived in Australia, many of the coffee shops gave you a code for the WiFi that functioned for an hour with each purchase of anything. I think that really cut down on group #3 for the coffee shops.

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oftenDubious t1_jdqwgaa wrote

Replying to HowardTaftMD (#2,360,971)

I echo the request for your cafe reviews!

Warning about the Wydown, though: last year its outdoor seating had the highest concentration of mosquitos I’ve ever seen. I would sit inside at the window and watch people sit for 30 sec, get 30 bites, and run away. The air was thick and dark with these swarms…

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LeGoalie t1_jdqwzxi wrote

La Colombe on Florida Ave is about a 10 minute walk from Wydown and has much more seating available. Wydown is in the heart of 14th street and has a large amount of space for that area.

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HowardTaftMD t1_jdqxqul wrote

Replying to SeanTheCyclist (#2,363,339)

Thank you! I've never checked out Three Whistles so I'll add it!

Swings in Del Ray is so nice.

Rare Bird is my favorite. I like the vibe, the coffee is amazing, but also as someone who brews a lot at home they have my favorite selection of beans that are roasted light - medium, with very little in that dark/charred range.

I always shout out Cervantes too because it's kind of funky and tucked away. Nothing near it, so if you go it's because you like coffee.

For traditional coffee house vibes Misha's is also really cool.

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HowardTaftMD t1_jdqy0vm wrote

Replying to oftenDubious (#2,370,487)

I worked somewhere in DC where this was the case too! A guy came out to spray for us and was like "yeah, they breed in those big vents on the ground. Nothing can be done, you just get eaten."

We would just know that every summer we'd be eaten alive.

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violet-shift t1_jdr58dd wrote

Replying to HowardTaftMD (#2,360,971)

> One place I desperately miss is this little cafe in Chinatown (might have been called Chinatown cafe?) In a skinny brick building that always felt like what I wanted a downtown cafe to feel like. Rip to that shop.

I liked that place (and strong agree about the vibes), but I kind of stopped going after 2 or 3 times in a row of them being unexpectedly closed during the middle of the day. It was just too far of a walk to head down there and then have to turn around and come back.

> Sweet Science was pretty cool.

Sweet science now has a new-ish location in NoMA. They still have all the fancy brewing vessels displayed, but I'm not sure if they actually use them ever.

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tc_tuggers_boy t1_jdra88x wrote

A few recommendations are Open City, Tryst, Pitango, and Coupe – one theme here is that the Tryst family of locations all prioritize a wide array of seating. There does tend to be an inverse relationship between the number of seats and the quality of coffee, but I don't think that's particular to DC. Some hit-or-miss spots seating-wise are the two Emissary locations and TCB, both serve good coffee but are in high demand.

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HowardTaftMD t1_jdsvkcg wrote

Replying to violet-shift (#2,371,583)

Yeah I only stopped in whenever I was in the area, but really appreciated having it there. Just felt cozier that most of the spots in that area.

And lol I've never seen them use them but I dig the desire to serve good coffee so I return occasionally.

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HowardTaftMD t1_jdsvxwk wrote

Replying to SeanTheCyclist (#2,373,761)

Rare Bird is a gem. Sometimes I feel like a broken record hyping it up but I honestly love the beans they source and roasts they do as much as any place I've ever ordered from. They do a really great job and the shop is such a nice local spot.

Report back how you like Cervantes! It's especially great if you enjoy the occasional sweet drink, their rotating sweet lattes are actually usually pretty creative and taste. Also I don't love coldbrew but they have the one of the few cold brews ive ever had and thought was interesting.

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