Submitted by Scarppetta t3_10l6mks in Futurology
Comments
Klumber t1_j5vntu3 wrote
I was walking through a nearby city recently and saw parking racks for bikes. 'oh nice, shame they aren't used!' then I realised the only way to get to them was by going up 30 steps of stair, or through a big shopping mall. Brilliant design.
NiranS t1_j5w8wec wrote
Anywhere in Canada…except our Library( the library is the one place that has 4 good bike stands)
selphfourgiveness t1_j5w95wp wrote
Ha, yes, you can usually count on libraries, thank goodness. I keep a mental record of any stores or other buildings that actually have good, or any, bike racks. Big box stores and giant SmartCentres are usually the worst.
-Wobblier t1_j5yhmjq wrote
We are so behind here in North America.
mathisrowan1 t1_j5yz4xb wrote
We travel much greater distances on average.
-Wobblier t1_j5z0980 wrote
I agree, things are too far apart here.
Cynical_Cabinet t1_j5z9srk wrote
And why does that make bike racks not exist at destinations?
jabberwockgee t1_j63aill wrote
Because they would be unused at most places making it generally unnecessary to invest in them?
aspheric_cow t1_j5zk67w wrote
That's a choice we made, to build things far apart and connect them with roads rather than building walkable / bikable cities.
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DeliciousPandaburger t1_j636fvd wrote
And its your own fault, you built it like that. In the 1930s/40s/50s you had many many cities european style with stuff in walking distance. Americans HAVING to need to rely on cars is entirely artificialy made.
Krillin113 t1_j5y5fql wrote
.. thats why they byikd this here as well, because there isn’t enough space (2 million bikes, 1 million people) we love bikes like Americans live guns
Surur t1_j5v1dz0 wrote
Here is a picture of the garage. Not sure why it costs $65 million however.
EatMyPossum t1_j5v7ju3 wrote
The divers on payroll that retrieve your bike are hella expensive
Ghost273552 t1_j5w6aux wrote
Probably because British tourists piss on them.
acuet t1_j5vgnqi wrote
Yuuuuuup, already had a natural one in place for years. ‘Putting your bike in the water’ is going to have a different meaning now.
gimmelwald t1_j5vm2fo wrote
Hah... i was gonna say "Just dug another canal hey?"
MrScrib t1_j5xhrl3 wrote
Watched the timelapse. Looks like they changed their minds on what they were actually building at least 5 times.
No doubt someone more knowledgeable can explain why they had to build over, then drain, then build over, then drain again, then build, then fill.
joost00719 t1_j5y0acw wrote
I am pretty sure we use euros.
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Redditing-Dutchman t1_j5wcmem wrote
Here is an awesome timelapse of the whole contruction project. Water had to be pumped out first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZcq3R91YZM
Persiandoc t1_j5xmd6l wrote
That was amazing
hour_of_the_rat t1_j5zi9yb wrote
They built all that, and they have a tram?
If they tried to build that in the US, it would have been budgeted for 5 billion dollars, incurred cost overruns, and ended up costing $8.5 billion, three workers would have died, 20% would have been embezzled, generated a dozen lawsuits, 6 people would have gone to jail, one person would have murdered another person's wife, and it would be 4 years overdue. And it would leak constantly.
misconfigbackspace t1_j60eki5 wrote
What's amazing is that the officials acted rationally with the cost involved and stuck with the plan in letter and spirit. I think everyone needs to look at the Dutch education and political systems as well. We all know the Dutch already have better police than most places due to psychedelics and CSWs being perfectly legal and regulated. There must be more worth learning.
Stealthy_Snow_Elf t1_j5yxk9f wrote
Yeah NL has really mastered civil engineering, especially when it comes to working with water. They represent the pinnacle of it imo
_HOG_ t1_j5z0nrz wrote
I’m curious if they’ve mastered budgeting too, this looks like it could easily eclipse $100 million.
a_talking_face t1_j5z48jg wrote
Yeah I don't think building it is the challenging part. It's paying for it.
asshole_goose t1_j5vt2xn wrote
American here. What are the downsides to moving to the Netherlands?
handsomeslug t1_j5w5p3b wrote
We have no houses left
Cynical_Cabinet t1_j5z9zjl wrote
So, no different than anywhere else.
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wisym t1_j5vyc20 wrote
I was there this summer. Really cool place. Everything was in English and I didn't have any problems getting around. Except for one train that wasn't included on the public train pass and we got trapped until some nice people let us out.
alc4pwned t1_j5w8l20 wrote
You'll make less money. If you're a skilled professional, a lot less.
willingtony t1_j5xjg5y wrote
You also pay less than a skilled professional. A lot less. Especially for rent. Had my own full apartment in Amsterdam city for 500€.
How much would have to pay for that in San Francisco? Lol
jorrit91 t1_j5xs41y wrote
Not sure how you arranged that for yourself but that’s absolutely not a representative amount. Small apartment can easily start around €2000
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ToerakOfUrty t1_j5yc3yb wrote
>https://rentola.nl/en/listings/apartamento-85-m2-2-habitaciones-ref-3811-plaza-de-maria-pita-ea2369
There's no Plaza de María Pita in Amsterdam.
alc4pwned t1_j5yibza wrote
I’m seeing that Amsterdam is one of the most expensive cities in Europe and that average rent is more like 3-4x what you paid.
Prinzka t1_j5z59ck wrote
Lollll
Maybe 40 years ago in a sociale woning.
Early 2000s 1 bedroom outside de grachtengordel would cost 4 times that.
Wukong00 t1_j5vwfit wrote
Learning Dutch.
onelittleworld t1_j5vxben wrote
The average Amsterdamer speaks a more understandable English to me than the average Texan. Do with that information what you will.
94746382926 t1_j5vxlh3 wrote
I've heard employment can be difficult if you don't speak it. Not sure how true it is though.
Wukong00 t1_j5vxiwz wrote
You are planning to live here without learning any Dutch?
Moke_Smith t1_j5w4h5j wrote
I speak 3+ languages myself and I think people should make an effort to learn the local language, but Amsterdam is one of the easiest cities in the world to get by with English, other than those where English is the native language.
littlest_dragon t1_j5xxaiz wrote
Lived in Amsterdam for five years without speaking Dutch. It’s actually super hard to learn the language there, because everyone will just speak English to you, even if you try to engage them in Dutch. Also while the Dutch are generally a friendly people, they’re also not a very curious one and don’t really seem to be interested in making friends with people coming in from the outside. I have never met an expat who actually had Dutch friends outside of work.
knselektor t1_j5ybfwd wrote
> It’s actually super hard to learn the language there, because everyone will just speak English to you, even if you try to engage them in Dutch.
that it's so true, the people -being polite- switch to english when one is around and is very difficult to grab any pronunciation.
deaddonkey t1_j5yl6xl wrote
I’m not moving or living there but I did an international year at university there some years back and had professors who couldn’t speak Dutch lol
[deleted] t1_j5w2cl2 wrote
Definitely. But like 98% are fluent English speakers. Highest outside of UK and the US. If you can say a few things in Dutch however, you definitely get a more friendly treatment in business near tourist areas.
H0meslice9 t1_j5w0z14 wrote
I spent a summer there and had next to 0 difficulty speaking to residents. Really millenials and younger were ALL quite fluent
Vitztlampaehecatl t1_j5wezwk wrote
The price of rent.
asshole_goose t1_j5wf4a9 wrote
We have that problem here in America, too.
dismayhurta t1_j5x1ro5 wrote
Legit curious what are some averages on apartments and houses in the city?
(I know it varies by neighborhood/city/etc. just more curious of a general concept)
Vitztlampaehecatl t1_j5x2ynq wrote
This website seems to have some listings. Looks like 1br rent is about 2k and 2br is about 3k.
dismayhurta t1_j5x7skt wrote
Thank you!
fossilfuelssuck t1_j62lnvy wrote
octavioletdub t1_j5y581n wrote
It’s extremely flat
-Wobblier t1_j5yhrye wrote
Not the worst thing, considering you'll be on a bike every day.
octavioletdub t1_j5ysnkk wrote
True! It just makes for an incredibly boring landscape.
-Wobblier t1_j5ytuai wrote
Honestly it looks very interesting to bike over there! Everything seems human scaled.
octavioletdub t1_j5ywfu0 wrote
I honestly do think that The Netherlands is one of the best countries in which to live. The ONLY downside is that it’s flat. Literally the only “bad” thing I could think of
misconfigbackspace t1_j60eyqi wrote
And considering that there are cheap train and flight tickets to everywhere in Europe. You get all the terrain you want with a proper visa.
Celtictussle t1_j5wtlpf wrote
If you're not a skilled worker, they don't want you. If you are, you'll take a home a ton less money while paying the same rent, and more for auto costs. In reality, you will ONLY ride a bike and take transit because you can't afford otherwise.
arcanereborn t1_j5xpu6w wrote
Amsterdam does not want you drive cars, they make been making it more expensive to have a car on purpose. Makes for a better city to live in. As for the take home pay, you are missing out a lot. Biking in amsterdam is usually the fastest way and its overall way healthier for you long term. But here are some other points:
- Usually around 21-25 days of vacation, you generally get 8% on top of your gross salary in May as your vacation pay.
- You will never get into medical debt like you can in the US. There is a mandatory insurance, but you are looking at like 125euro a month / 135 with dental
- If you have kids their university will be significantly cheaper while producing strong students.
- being multi-lingual gets you jobs for dutch companies, sure, but there are a lot of multi national companies here hiring like all the time. I’ve also worked for dutch companies without speaking dutch.
- if you are recruited into the NL there is the 30% ruling which is significant to increase your take home for 5 years. -while taxes are higher than in the states you will find that things generally work and arent crumbling, like 4 clicks to do your taxes (5 minutes of your life)
- dutch workplace directness is great once you understand it.
Celtictussle t1_j5z1xx9 wrote
>As for the take home pay, you are missing out a lot.
It was a 2 sentence post, it wasn't meant to be comprehensive. All your points are accurate, but my take away is still accurate; you will likely be poorer in the Netherlands than in the US with the same job, and this is backed by disposable income stats.
If you're willing to trade being a little poorer for better social safety nets and a beautiful, walkable city, that's great. It's nice when everyone is allowed to make choices that fit their preferences.
deltadovertime t1_j5w6zwa wrote
Uncomfortable footwear.
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mnamilt t1_j5y1b56 wrote
Getting a visa.
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eorenhund t1_j5yv6l3 wrote
The downside is, "Good luck getting in."
poprof t1_j5w2k05 wrote
Pretty sure I just an article that says that about 20% of Dutch under 40 don’t believe in the holocaust - or how severe it was. That was kinda new info to me.
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ChiefWematanye t1_j5vhtrd wrote
I thought almost every garage in the Netherlands is technically underwater. Isn't a third of the country a below sea level?
Hrambert t1_j5vswkz wrote
An underground garage is below sea level but not underneath water. As we Dutch always (try to) keep the water out. This garage however is build underneath water. The Amsterdam Central Station is next to The IJ waterway. Building the garage in front of the station like elsewhere would mean chaos for several years. Building it however on the other side underneath the water was easier.
onelittleworld t1_j5vxiuy wrote
And getting all those bikes away from the station entrance is brilliant. Can't wait to return!
octavioletdub t1_j5y563s wrote
This wasn’t built on the water side-
kytheon t1_j5xk9u3 wrote
This one is literally below a pool.
random_shitter t1_j5y0a8j wrote
Wiki says 26%.
FleariddenIE t1_j5w17dq wrote
Dublin already has an underwater parking for bikes running tight through it,... Granted once in there it's tough getting them out.
Also serves as a place to park shopping trolleys and ridiculous countdown clocks
BroomShakzuka t1_j5yznod wrote
Here is a video of how it looks to park your bike there:
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FalseTebibyte t1_j5wpfm0 wrote
Given how they behave around Calvin, I'm pleased to see that measures are being taken to address the problem.
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wantonballbag t1_j5xgo8e wrote
It's the Netherlands. I just assumed it would be underwater at some point.
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DLuLuChanel t1_j5xrjy4 wrote
I’ve seen the individual bike ‘parked’ in the canals here and there, but this definitely seems like a much better way.
spacred t1_j5xwdlc wrote
Great! Now I have to swim after getting drenched in the persistent Dutch rain to park my bike. It won't be two tiring.
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rayheezy t1_j5ytqrp wrote
in Florida we just pick an alligator to leave it next to
Antigon0000 t1_j5ywqv6 wrote
Usually they just throw bikes in the water anyways
ab845 t1_j5w9ov0 wrote
This is not really a good idea though. Here is another perspective: https://youtu.be/mXLqrMljdfU ( Jump to 11:20 in this video)
kurtthewurt t1_j5xeo9s wrote
I’m confused how you got “building a bike parking garage is a bad idea” from that video when his whole channel is basically advocating for bike & pedestrian infrastructure.
trukkija t1_j5wdd1o wrote
Another perspective on a different topic than in the post? I can see some similarities but thats about it.
ab845 t1_j67brw1 wrote
I must be sleepy. I wrote the exact opposite of what I wanted to say.
ghostoutlaw t1_j5xujww wrote
We have that here in America too. They’re called lakes. They’re everywhere and they’re free.
empleat t1_j5zskf6 wrote
That is very ecological LOL, also did you know that bikes release like 60% of CO2 as car, because also you breathe more rapidly and energy you have to replace and to make food a lot of CO2 is released... Bikes are overrated, but because eco fanatics...
Environmental-Bug934 t1_j610u6f wrote
Hahaha you are a joke.
empleat t1_j632uu2 wrote
No really just look it up, god all ppl are today so sensitive, you can't even look numbers yourself, it take you couple minutes... I am not against bikes BTW, ppl make them just overrated and go overboard with green fanatism, but bikes are good still ofc. I don't think someone like you could understand that tho :/ But to be fair it sounded like I shit on bikes for no reason, i can grant that...
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Orcus424 t1_j5v4irr wrote
The government is building it not some company trying to make a profit. They are doing something to help their citizens. I know that sounds like an odd thing depending on what country you are living in.
> So while spending €60 million on an underwater bike garage might still seem like an impossible luxury for most cities, in Amsterdam it’s more like a sound infrastructure investment. “It’s a drop in the bucket compared to investments for highway expansions,” Glaser says, “not to mention the societal public health costs of congestion, car crashes and car dependency.”
alc4pwned t1_j5w9naj wrote
Many people who agree with you would also argue that suburbs are financially unsustainable because they cost more tax dollars.
Surur t1_j5v7o5o wrote
And only 3,300 tons of CO2.
Scarppetta OP t1_j5v65ly wrote
It’s not always about profit…
alc4pwned t1_j5waug3 wrote
Yes, but the "loss" is money coming out of people's taxes. So you definitely still want to know whether it's breaking even or how much it's short by.
arcanereborn t1_j5v4es4 wrote
There is 1.5 bikes per person in NL versus the 0.3 in the states. Don’t you worry about it, because i got a sneaking suspicion you aren’t dutch.
theOpposites t1_j5vg64m wrote
There are 1.5 (at least) guns per person in America tough, maybe try to compare it as a under Target/Walmart gun storage while you shop at that shop! /S
TheAnonFeels t1_j5v4elu wrote
"The Dutch capital spent $65 million to create a parking structure that
can store 7,000 bicycles in a submerged facility at the city’s central
train station. "
Why do they need to turn a profit? Where were they putting the bikes before then? Makes their mass transit more efficient, its worth a loss.
deaddonkey t1_j5ylcn0 wrote
It’s an amenity, not a for profit business.
selphfourgiveness t1_j5v8oz3 wrote
Meanwhile here in Ontario, I often have to search for a signpost in a parking lot to lock my bike to because dedicated racks are far and few between, and many of them are rusted out or not even attached to the pavement anymore.