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PierogiPowered t1_isxr2zk wrote

>A summary offense can result in retail thieves sitting in prison for 90 days, however, the responsibility of charging people with summary offenses falls onto police officers, Krasner said.

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Weird that we keep blaming the DA when the police don't seem to want to do their jobs anymore.

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Tyrotoxism44 t1_isych2x wrote

No one ever gets jail time for a summary retail theft. At most it’s a fine and restitution for what they stolen.

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rovinchick t1_isyw682 wrote

True, but at least restitution would penalize the theif and make the store whole again.

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WookieeSteakIsChewie t1_it6x0jx wrote

>restitution would penalize the theif and make the store whole again

Hahahahahahaha

Do you know how many people who are supposed to pay restitution who actually do?

Almost none

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rovinchick t1_it6xekp wrote

Of course, but they can have wages and tax refund garnished, which is still better than nothing.

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Dat_Boi_Aint_Right t1_it7yiq8 wrote

More than they get when a person is jailed for petty retail theft

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WookieeSteakIsChewie t1_it7yyr0 wrote

>If the defendant is given jail time for the crime committed, then 25% of any money earned and 25% of money given to the inmate by friends or family is awarded to the victim as restitution payment.

So, no.

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ell0bo t1_it0eofa wrote

>No one ever gets jail time for a summary retail theft

I've been looking for stats on this, I assume you have a link?

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Tyrotoxism44 t1_it0fete wrote

Nope. Just extensive personal experience with the criminal justice system. Out of hundreds of summary retail thefts I don’t think I’ve ever seen jail time.

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gonzo_attorney t1_it1tev6 wrote

I'll chime in. I'm a public defender in a conservative county and I've never seen anyone get jail time for a summary retail theft. Court costs and restitution.

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Rosphindai t1_isza498 wrote

The DA isn't charging anyone for these offenses, the cops know this. It removes their motivation from putting their lives and their jobs on the line when the top prosecutor isn't prosecuting. It starts at the top. Not the other way around: The Fish Stinks From the Head.

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ell0bo t1_it0eulq wrote

I love how brittle our cops are that they don't do their job because they're demotivated. Welcome to having a job...

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randompaaccount t1_isxvux7 wrote

But but being a cop is hard and scary so we shouldn’t be held accountable for mistakes /s

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ThunderySleep t1_isy409h wrote

Because the police spent years explaining that the DA is making their job ineffective by not charging or under charging everyone, letting criminals back out on the streets and making them aware that potential crimes no longer come with punishment. Then Philadelphia ransacked its nicest neighborhoods out of blind hate for the police, then claimed the police committed a "war crime" by trying to stop the crowds from destroying innocent people's neighborhoods.

Then people went ahead and reelected Krasner.

Of course the police won't do their jobs. Why would they? What happens if a criminal fights back and the officer has to use force? They're risking spending the rest of their life in prison if they have to defend themselves or others.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isydu1q wrote

If they don’t want to do their jobs then they should fucking quit.

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TreeMac12 t1_isylimz wrote

>they should fucking quit.

They are. They are currently short 1300 officers. Your solution to crime is that 1000 more should quit? How will that work out for the hardest-hit communities?

https://www.police1.com/police-recruiting/articles/philly-pd-is-short-1300-officers-and-the-situation-is-about-to-get-worse-pOUeLq4iMtxELRkt/

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isylwe2 wrote

If 1000 more don’t want to do their jobs then YES, they should fucking quit too. What’s the difference between have no police or paying police who don’t do their jobs?

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TreeMac12 t1_isytjqh wrote

Likewise, if the DA isn't doing to prosecute, he should step down, too.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isytuny wrote

That’s fine with me, as long as his replacement holds the PPD accountable.

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ThunderySleep t1_isymyxi wrote

I kind of wanted to answer that comment about what the difference is if they don't do their job when you left it under my comment: My point was there is no difference, and having them quit is not a logical solution to the problem if the problem is not enough policing.

The solution is to incentivize them to do their job. Or at least not de-incentivize them.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isynp73 wrote

How would you incentivize them, aside from their paychecks and pensions? Also, why do they need to be incentivized when the rest of the world just goes to work and does their jobs? Because if we don’t do our jobs, we get fired. But they don’t. Maybe that’s a problem? Maybe that’s incentive not to work, since there are no repercussions and they collect their money anyway.

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ThunderySleep t1_isyp1h0 wrote

When people feel their jobs are meaningless, they're not incentivized to do it well. If their jobs were made ineffective by the DA's office not prosecuting or under-prosecuting, making criminals aware potential crimes no longer come with punishment, their jobs no longer have a purpose. This is exactly what the PPD was pointing out for years with regard to the DA. Rather than listen, people villainized the police, rioted and further villainized them when they came to people's defense, then re-elected the DA with the soft-on crime policies that were making their job ineffective.

Now they're even further villainized by people pointing to them as the problem, when they were trying to point to the real root of the problem for years.

In summary: Stop villainizing police as a whole and prosecute crimes so their policing can have an effect.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isyqyqv wrote

So they won’t arrest because the DA isn’t prosecuting enough? Do they need guarantees that everyone they arrest will be charged, prosecuted, adjudicated and incarcerated? Or maybe their job is to arrest, and regardless of the outcome they should do their jobs. I’m amazed that the police and their apologists have no problem casting themselves as the biggest fucking piss-puddle crybabies in the city. The lack of shame is astounding.

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ThunderySleep t1_isyrh20 wrote

> I’m amazed that the police and their apologists have no problem casting themselves as the biggest fucking piss-puddle crybabies in the city.

This is not how grown-ups carry conversation. The lack of self-awareness in the face of the point I'm making is what's astounding here.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isys2c8 wrote

Still can’t explain away why they won’t do their jobs, huh? Other than they need emotional support.

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ThunderySleep t1_isys72n wrote

This was all explained to you, bud. Obviously you're not interested in serious discussion. Have a good one.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isyt035 wrote

The day that PPD holds itself accountable I’ll be here for whatever serious discussion you want to have.

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karensPA t1_iszjzfn wrote

It’s not true the DA isn’t prosecuting. He’s not eager to convict without this thing called “due process” and “evidence.” This requires that the police do their job in the thoughtful and professional way we expect in a democracy, not just be a bunch of taxpayer-funded thugs knocking heads and racking up arrest numbers with impunity. There are a number of cops who feel this isn’t their job, but they are mistaken.

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ThunderySleep t1_iszsmxr wrote

You unironically post in /r/voteDEM and /r/January6.

Obviously I'm not going to deter your bs with reason, I just think it's important that people see that so they don't mistake you for someone chiming in with honest intentions.

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karensPA t1_it00v16 wrote

So everyone understands, you think it’s “dishonest” to be a Democrat and to believe January 6th was a violent attempt to overthrow a free and fair election by force, but we should definitely listen to your opinions, which are not at all dishonest. But mostly I’m worried by your interest in splooting squirrels. Are you getting help for that?

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ThunderySleep t1_it016cv wrote

Perfect. That's all I want plastered under your comment.

edit: Ah, the old respond and block.

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karensPA t1_it05gpp wrote

You’re telling on yourself, friend. Let the adults talk now.

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Dat_Boi_Aint_Right t1_it80aby wrote

In case you missed it, Jan 6th was a violent attempt to disrupt the peaceful transition of power.

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hayydebb t1_it0td3p wrote

Thanks for pointing out that they have honest intentions and you don’t. And following the playbook of looking through someone’s Reddit history to try and find a gacha instead of having a good point.

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drxdrg08 t1_iszb21w wrote

> How would you incentivize them, aside from their paychecks and pensions? Also, why do they need to be incentivized when the rest of the world just goes to work and does their jobs? Because if we don’t do our jobs, we get fired. But they don’t.

It sounds like you work for a paycheck because you can be fired. Because you are replaceable.

Cops generally are not replaceable. All the people that want to be cops in a general geographic area are already cops.

  • If you are replaceable = no leverage with the employer

  • Not replaceable = you have the upper hand

You've read plenty of Karl Marx. This should be obvious to you.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_iszeg5h wrote

You are absolutely correct: PPD have no accountability. You think that’s because they’re exceptional. Your Ayn Rand is showing.

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karensPA t1_iszjbwm wrote

There are over 500 out on fake “injuries” so maybe don’t include them.

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ScienceWasLove t1_it0b7rp wrote

Source.

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karensPA t1_it0fy22 wrote

Alfie Williams, a longtime Philadelphia police officer, answered the front door of his Bucks County home with a navy blue 15th District T-shirt stretched snug across his burly chest.

Since June 10, Williams has been on a weekly list, shared between the Police Department and the District Attorney’s Office, of cops who are unavailable for duty, with what he described as a torn rotator cuff from “lifting a 500-pound dead body.” Williams told a reporter that he could no longer raise his left arm more than two inches because of the injury.

Thanks to Pennsylvania’s Heart and Lung Act, a disability benefit meant mostly for police and firefighters, Williams gets 100% of his $78,092 salary and isn’t required to pay state or federal taxes on it, at least a 20% raise. A Police Department directive, however, prohibits officers who are out with Heart and Lung claims from working any other job in any capacity.

In Williams’ driveway sat a bright blue and white pickup truck, covered with logos and slogans for Exterior Solutions Roofing and Siding. On LinkedIn, Williams has a photo of himself in his police uniform, with the words “Business Owner at Exterior Solutions, LLC.”

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ThunderySleep t1_isye6qm wrote

If the problem is lack of policing, how is having no police the solution?

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isyefl9 wrote

I said the ones who don’t want to do their jobs should quit. Are you saying that all police are refusing to do their jobs?

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ThunderySleep t1_isyfyjd wrote

The premise of the discussion is police aren't doing their jobs. I stated police aren't incentivized to do it, and are actively incentivized not to.

Telling them all to quit from there = no police, according to the premise of this conversation, which isn't a logical solution to the notion there's not enough policing.

Of course you don't want people employed in any position who aren't doing their job. I'm just taking this train of thought to it's logical conclusion.

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RevHenryMagoo t1_isygl2f wrote

If they won’t do their jobs, then what’s the difference?

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madmanz123 t1_isyuelo wrote

>I stated police aren't incentivized to do it, and are actively incentivized not to

It's called a paycheck. They get those.

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BlkSheepKnt t1_isytzlj wrote

No the problem is that theft is the only other option of getting access to resources. Go to a high income area and not only are there no police to be seen but no petty theft on large scale, no riots, and no plastic cases around baby formula.

Making sure everyone's material needs are met means even if they had a sign on the door that said "We will not prosecute shoplifters" wouldn't invite near as much theft if everyone could afford groceries and wasn't in want for anything.

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ThunderySleep t1_isyvah4 wrote

A lot of the crime in philadelphia is for shits-and-giggles, particularly among the crowds of teenagers in center city, which were the ones creating most of the havoc at the Wawa locations.

No doubt people occasionally steal out of need, but the notion that crime as a whole is done out of having no other option just isn't true. Plenty of crime is committed out of selfishness, or for thrill, or sometimes out of pure malice.

Most of the havoc at the center city Wawa locations has been teenagers doing it for kicks. The one at Broad and Walnut would have the semi-regular stabbing, for which I don't know the motives, but it didn't seem to be someone hungry needs food.

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kellyb1985 t1_it0dovo wrote

Ah yes... All the cops who went to jail. They're literally filled with them /s

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Electronic_Chard_270 t1_iszcmm1 wrote

Lol. Ransacked their nicest neighborhoods? You’re off your rocker

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ThunderySleep t1_iszs2vr wrote

So we're at revising history now?

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Electronic_Chard_270 t1_iszvuvl wrote

When’s the last time you’ve been to the city? That areas fine and was hardly ‘ransacked’. You’re just being fed copaganda

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ThunderySleep t1_iszy9cv wrote

That's a blatant lie. The entire main strip of Walnut St was torn apart, Chestnut hit as well, multiple police cars burned in CC, fires still going the next morning. Then you guys moved on to more neighborhoods after you ransacked rittenhouse.

There's video of it... Why even bother lying? This is dumber than nazis claiming the Holocaust didn't happen. We literally have video and news documentation of these events. It was only a couple years ago.

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Electronic_Chard_270 t1_iszzlt6 wrote

I’m not saying it did not happen. I’m saying that was 2 years ago and the areas it happened in are fine. Really dude the holocaust? Don’t be hyperbolic

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ThunderySleep t1_it00abn wrote

Your historical revision is the same thing, except dumber since there's video evidence of it and it was only two years ago.

> I’m saying that was 2 years ago and the areas it happened in are fine

You just moved the goal post from "It didn't happen" to "the areas have recovered".

The original comment is laying out a timeline of events spanning back years. The riots were a pivotal part of that. Now you're trying to say "you're not allowed to mention it because it was two years ago"? It's a part of the timeline for why PPD is the way they are today.

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Electronic_Chard_270 t1_it013lc wrote

Absolutely pivotal man, you’re completely right. I forgot the PPD only started being shitty right around that time.

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ThunderySleep t1_it01dxx wrote

I laid out a timeline in the comment you responded to. What point are you even trying to make here?

Your first reply was an attempt at historical revisionism. That didn't work out. What's the purpose of this one?

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Electronic_Chard_270 t1_it027mh wrote

My point is you’re thesis about why the PPD doesn’t do their job is simply wrong. They’ve been shitty for a long long time, it has nothing to do with the DA or June 2020. Those are scapegoats to pass the blame. They get more money than any other agency in city government and they’re incompetent.

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ThunderySleep t1_it02n4z wrote

How's it wrong?

You've had several comments now and the best you've got is a terrible attempt at historical revisionism which you immediately, thankfully, went back on, followed by "you're wrong!".

It's like I'm talking to a five year old.

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Electronic_Chard_270 t1_it041rl wrote

Do you believe the PPD was an effective agency before June of 2020 and before Krasner? Murder clearance rates sure suggest otherwise. What’s happening with the PPD has been going on for years. That is how you’re wrong. You try to blame a complicated problem on two things that happened. It’s simply not accurate

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ThunderySleep t1_it05p85 wrote

Nobody's discussing whether or not the PPD has always been perfect.

You've already hit your limit on moving goalposts for the day.

This thread is discussing the Wawa closures and the increased in crime in philly over the past few years. The comment you chimed in on is discussing the current state of PPD and why they don't seem to be doing their job.

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shanks16 t1_it0orit wrote

What if the DA doesn’t want to prosecute summary and misdemeanor charges ?

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PierogiPowered t1_it21v7n wrote

You can’t really use the diversion programs for first time offenders and prosecute repeat offenders if no one is ever arrested.

Krasner can’t do his job (or in your view, fail to do his job) if the police stop doing their job first.

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shanks16 t1_it2cfoe wrote

Have to disagree, as the top law enforcement official he should lead by example. Everything else rolls down hill. Probably one of the worst DAs around. He allows the lawlessness.

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timewellwasted5 t1_it0pwdg wrote

It’s weird, just two summers ago we were treating police officer so well. The image of the Pennsylvania State police car in Philadelphia on fire while they trooper stands in front of it doused in paint from the protesters sticks out in my mind. It’s amazing that these individuals, who are so clearly valued by society, are now stepping away from the professional altogether. It’s almost like shitting all over an entire profession had negative ramifications. It’s (D)efinitely interesting times in Philly.

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PierogiPowered t1_it22djz wrote

I’m unaware of any police organizations pushing for reforms to improve their image with the communities they serve.

If the bad apples are more important than serving the community, what do you expect?

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ThunderySleep t1_it35k0v wrote

Your comment is just making stuff up.

There are constant new policies and reforms from police departments all over the country in the past few years, particularly Philadelphia PD.

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