Submitted by Meatball_Grinder t3_11g4h0x in RhodeIsland
Comments
UltravioletClearance t1_jao32fx wrote
Doctors love diagnosing women with "female hysteria" and sentencing them to death.
shk_88 t1_jaovlvp wrote
Malpractice is written allllllllll over this one. Prayers to her family as they process this. This is terrible neglect
Dazzling_Face_6515 t1_jar7r4z wrote
It’s also the fucking south, I don’t think this would happen in New England. A cop in Tennessee can shoot a kid because he’s experiencing a mental health crisis and then get elected county sheriff by the kids conservative parents to own the libs. You heard em in the vid it’s Sunday. Can’t be bothered on the lords day 💒🙅🏻♂️
RedditSkippy t1_jar9ds5 wrote
Something very, very similar happened in Brooklyn about 15 years ago.
I’m sure these ERs are overwhelmed, and I wonder if the article omits a history of this woman showing up there with non-issues, but, whoa, the police?
totoop t1_jarhycu wrote
I mean she hadn't even been living in Tennessee for 20 days at the the time of her death so I can't imagine a scenario where the hospital saw her as a repeat visitor. I know google reviews can easily be influenced but the hospital looks like a dump....
RedditSkippy t1_jarnrbh wrote
Okay, I hadn’t appreciated how recently she moved there.
totoop t1_jarp208 wrote
That being said though, I do think you're probably correct in that the hospital did likely assume something about Lisa and did not take her concerns seriously.
I'm curious what her treatment even was considering how recently she had had a stroke and how she clearly picked up on some warning signs about having another one.
Hospitals are often tasked with doing a lot, oftentimes more then they really should be responsible for, but patient care should always be the #1 priority. Its just unfortunate when you have incidents similar to these, where (putting aside the loss of life) even if the assumption is correct and the hospital is dealing with a repeat visitor or somebody struggling with mental illness, that patient care seems to take a backseat to profit and getting the "patient" back out the door "treated"
totoop t1_jample1 wrote
I can't imagine the rage somebody must feel watching the final minutes of their own parent's life, recorded in HD, as they lie on the ground asking for help while being mocked by a group of people that are supposedly there to "protect and serve."
I'm curious how the cop apologists will spin this one, we probably just don't understand how "hard" it is to be a cop because we don't know what they go through and the kind of people they have to deal with.
FawmahRhoDyelindah t1_jamz3z9 wrote
You didn't know? The cops DO protect and serve. The wealthy.
PophamSP t1_japmnf7 wrote
gotta keep those corporate prisons full! Inventory is money!
manicmonday122 t1_jao0jbk wrote
In the video the cops tell her the hospital refused to let her back in because they medically cleared her. Tough spot to be in with little to no medical background when the physician says there is nothing wrong with her. IMO they should have called the rescue to evaluate her one she stated she couldn’t breath or before. Let the medics argue with the Dr. or transport her to another facility. The current system is totally fucked. ER wait times 10 to 20 hours on a regular basis just to get back into a room.
totoop t1_jao3wfq wrote
I think its clear that in just about every way possible, every institution tasked with caring for Lisa Edwards in the final 24hours of her life failed her.
I think what bothers me so much about her death is the likely terror and confusion she probably felt while her life was ending. She goes to a hospital fearing she is having another stroke, gets kicked out, asks for help, gets arrested, asks for help, gets mocked by police, asks for help, dies alone in the backseat of a police car. Its the callousness she was shown by the last line of people that COULD have done something to save her life but chose not to. The same people that are supposed to deal with life or death situations regularly in their line of work.
I just can't see anything that Lisa could have possibly done differently in this situation to help herself better, which is what she was trying to do, help herself.
barsoapguy t1_jap4up4 wrote
I mean your final point is the most realistic one.I’d guess the assumption the police would make would just be your run of the mill mentally Ill drug addicted homeless person or some such.
If the hospital says she’s been attended to and needs to be removed from the premises then what more can they do ? The police are not doctors qualified to overrule the hospital.
totoop t1_jarjx0f wrote
Cops are too easily influenced by their preconceived notions about interacting with the public - they will tell you the public lies through their teeth at every opportunity but will take somebody's word as fact if it gives them justification for aggression or indifference.
How many of these cops are also licensed medical first responders? Even if she was a "run of the mill mentally ill person" (which I think you're exactly right about - they made that assumption).....is that how we want somebody to be treated by the police when they're having a breakdown? That's disgusting.
If police are capable of showing compassion to Dylann fucking Roof after he murdered 9 people by buying him a burger - I'd expect an equal level of professionalism and compassion to a mentally ill person......which again, she wasn't, the police were just flat out wrong with their assumptions (that what the hospital told them was a fact).
barsoapguy t1_jarsofr wrote
I mean the cops are human beings, most people don’t have the same level of compassion that you speak of when having to deal with the drug addicts and the mentally Ill on the daily. Their basically human dog catchers running around the city constantly having to deal with these folks and their issues.
By and large the cops tend to be compassionate enough when dealing with them but obviously their going to have times where they just get frustrated with their behavior 🤷🏿♂️
allhailthehale t1_jams2tg wrote
Wait, she was arrested for trespassing because she wouldn't leave the hospital? Did she go there for medical treatment? The article isn't clear.
If so, that's just the cherry on top of this super grim story.
savory_thing t1_jamu348 wrote
From what I understand it wasn’t the first hospital to refuse her the medical care she needed.
allhailthehale t1_jamvqda wrote
Upon further reading, it sounds like she was 'treated' to the extent of their legal obligation and discharged against her will. Everyone thought she was being dramatic and the police were called to remove her.
Just seen as another 'dumb nuisance patient' who doesn't know what they're talking about, I guess.
gusterfell t1_jamzqi1 wrote
>Upon further reading, it sounds like she was 'treated' to the extent of their legal obligation and discharged against her will.
Given that she died of a second stroke shortly after discharge, perhaps that legal obligation needs to be reevaluated. She apparently knew better than the medical professionals what she was talking about.
appandemonium t1_jammyof wrote
"Died of natural causes" and "officers didn't cause her death." Straight up negligence and a complete lack of empathy and intelligence, rewarded with "paid administrative leave."
Tell me again how not all cops are bad. Tell me how some cops are actually good people with good hearts who just want to help people. There's no such thing as a good cop and I'll shout it from the rooftops until the day I die, no irony found in the fact that it may well be a cop who kills me for being on the roof in the first place.
Calling them pigs is an insult to pigs.
I hope her family can find peace.
gravytrain2112 t1_janggh2 wrote
Unfortunately the family will never find peace. Doesn’t matter if one or all of the cops are fired, or they get some sort of financial decision made in their favor. Wouldn’t it have been faster to have someone reevaluate her then tell the officers with her able to hear it? No, cause it’s their way or their way. The way she was treated and laughed at for everyone to see is just disgusting. Imagine what was being said off camera?
fishythepete t1_janmjvk wrote
>Wouldn’t it have been faster to have someone reevaluate her then tell the officers with her able to hear it?
She was arrested at a hospital. At the request of the doctors there. Because she refused to leave.
So no. Probably not.
Full-Supermarket t1_jano307 wrote
The hospital should be sued. She is not in condition to leave as she died right there.
gravytrain2112 t1_jao1grm wrote
I don’t think she refused to leave, she physically couldn’t leave.
[deleted] t1_janp53j wrote
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kvist321 t1_jaqyj9v wrote
The cops are not medical professionals qualified to diagnose the patient, they were acting on information from the doctors at the hospital. The doctors are the ones who should be on administrative leave and the hospital should get sued for misconduct. The police wouldn’t even be at the hospital if the doctors did their job. I think your rage is misguided in this specific case.
barsoapguy t1_jap57rg wrote
How is this the fault of the police? If the doctors and nurses say she’s good to go and needs to be removed are you expecting the officer to overrule the P.H.D’s ?
mightynifty_2 t1_janptts wrote
I'll tell you that some cops are good people who want to help others. Some are disgusting people on a power trip who want to take out their anger on others. The vast majority aren't bad people, they're just employees working for a paycheck. However, any cop who tried to defend the actions of these inhumane pieces of shit is a bad cop.
The system is bad and allows bad people to do bad things while encouraging good people to join them. The system often punishes those who speak out. Blaming all cops is like treating the symptom instead of the disease. It's not like you throw on a uniform and instantly start shooting black guys in the street. We need reform, we need community service and outreach, we need accountability from a 3rd party, and any good cop would absolutely agree.
[deleted] t1_jao8z4c wrote
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thebirbseyeview t1_jamqu8y wrote
I saw the video and had no idea the woman was from RI. The entire thing is completely disgusting and shows how the cops and the hospital lack empathy and just regular human decency. 2 issues America has wrapped into one, and things need to change.
distortionisgod t1_jan1sj8 wrote
This is what happens when the system is working as intended.
Hospitals exist to generate profit for shareholders. This woman would not be profitable to continue to treat, so kick her out and call the cops. The cops exist to protect and serve capital interests, not human lives and safety.
Nothing will change, this is exactly how everything is intended to work. It's really depressing, and I wish I knew how to help change it within our system but I really don't see that as being a reality. It's becoming increasingly harder for people to cope with this (myself included).
Meatball_Grinder OP t1_jaml1ia wrote
Read the whole article. This is so horrible and disgusting.
CanineAnaconda t1_jan7ttq wrote
Precious moment when the cops scoff at her saying “I’m going to die” and all agreeing it’s an act right before she loses consciousness and dies. Obviously the hospital showed the same level of callousness to get her arrested in the first place when it’s obvious to anyone she was in medical distress.
Bridge23Ux t1_japhh7p wrote
The officer should be relieved of duty for scoffing.
ChronicCumShots t1_janbq3f wrote
There’s that southern hospitality. So fucked up
Slingtown_Slinger t1_jaq1ku3 wrote
Yeah, when people tell me they’re leaving New England for cheap living down south I’m always just like “good luck pal”.
Dazzling_Face_6515 t1_jar8lzu wrote
New England needs to be its own country, it’s awful that we live in the same nation as that filth. Literally a county in Arkansas ran a billboard campaign to prevent father-daughter incest and we’re up here promoting PFML. Wayyyy different worlds.
Swamp_yankee_ninja t1_janhakq wrote
Massive medical malpractice lawsuit, possibly a lawsuit against the City or town as well. Saw this grim story the other day, didn’t say where she was from originally, this is a national story. The footage is disturbing, scary and incomprehensible.
Proof-Variation7005 t1_janliiz wrote
The only good part is people being aware of this in Rhode Island independently of the fact that she's from here. More people need to see stories like this if anything will ever change.
fishythepete t1_janohtk wrote
Huge medical malpractice lawsuit. I would guess 20-40x what they get from the municipality.
Bridge23Ux t1_japhm1w wrote
This is also why we need to get rid of qualified immunity. The police officer should be subject to civil penalties for his participation.
buddhamanjpb t1_jamn9zg wrote
This is horrific. Sadly nothing will happen to these cops except for a paid vacation while they "investigate". Qualified Immunity needs to be taken away and police need to be held accountable for their actions like the rest of the population.
fishythepete t1_jannr7d wrote
There are scenarios where qualified immunity is relevant and problematic, but offering protection to someone taking a doctor’s advice on a medical issue ain’t one. They were told by medical professionals that she was fine and faking it, and that they wanted her removed from the premises.
It’d be one thing if it was an all you can eat buffet trespassing her, but someone making a decision based on an expert’s qualified advice is meeting a much higher burden of care than what qualified immunity exists to protect.
buddhamanjpb t1_janodmx wrote
There really isn't a situation where any kind of trespassing warrants this outcome and this treatment by police. Hospital, buffet, mall, car dealership, etc, etc.
fishythepete t1_jansiy9 wrote
Upvote to remove the down someone gave you.
>Qualified Immunity needs to be taken away and police need to be held accountable for their actions like the rest of the population.
I guess I just don’t see what about this situation is so egregious that the officers need to be held liable not only in their role as officers, but personally as well? If you are in a hospital, and a doctor grabbed you and said “I need your help quick - do XYZ!”, would you? I think a reasonably prudent person would and defer to a doctors medical expertise. Like it or not, that’s what the cops did here.
They’ll surely be sued, and the municipality will pay something, even though the hospital made the professional error. But they should be personally held liable too? Because they took a doctors opinion on a medical question? Eh.
totoop t1_janvqh0 wrote
I see what you're saying and it does make some sense but in the end this woman is dead. The police were the last people charged with her custody. In the video the woman is clearly asking for help and saying she can't breath which is met with officers saying "clearly she's faking it.......yeah clearly she is but if she ends up not being able to breath that will be a big problem"
They understood the severity of the issue, they chose to disregard it even after acknowledging the severity, because they convinced themselves their assumptions (based on their own professional judgement and actions of the hospital) were justified when they were clearly very, very wrong.
Even if this woman was "faking it", is it so unreasonable for the public to still demand a level of professionalism and responsibility out of their public servants. I don't care if this woman was faking it, treat her with compassion and professionalism and do your god damn job.
I do agree with your assessment though, they'll all be sued, nobody will really face any disciplinary action, a settlement will be reached and taxpayers will foot the bill and nothing will be learned. Rinse and repeat until the next negligent death pops up and we go through this cycle all over again.
buddhamanjpb t1_janu8pb wrote
You're right in the fact that this situation isn't as cut and dry as others where qualified immunity has let officers go free of responsibility and putting the taxpayers on the hook for a lawsuit. At the end of the day though, this woman died after she told the officers she couldn't breathe and said "I'm going to die". They literally accused her of faking. There are so many other, more productive ways this could have been handled and I do think that part of this is to blame on the officers.
I suppose this wasn't the best example of why qualified immunity needs to go away. I'm honestly just so tired of seeing police all across the country get away with murdering civilians and not facing consequences. I'm also not someone that hates on police all day. It's ok to support Police but also want to fix the system.
symbolic_love t1_jamvvyl wrote
Replace just one of those cops in the video with a social worker and this would have ended differently.
agreensandcastle t1_jan1x3p wrote
I would usually agree with you but as she died from a stroke that was being ignored by “medical professionals “ I have my doubts. She was failed to an extraordinary degree.
fishythepete t1_janmy28 wrote
I’m sure there are some social workers who would ignore the doctors’ finding, but I expect they’re few and far between.
manicmonday122 t1_jaoe8qw wrote
I’m definitely not siding with the cops but what is a social worker going to do? Tell the physician he had to see a patient he just discharged. The cop in the video said the hospital wouldn’t take her back.
symbolic_love t1_japt5b7 wrote
Yes I imagine a social worker would likely advocate for the patient’s care in this case, and yes I believe that would have made a difference. Hospitals want to avoid lawsuits, and it is easier to say “no” to a lone vulnerable individual than it is to say “no” to a trained professional who knows the details of the relevant regulations.
Edit: In addition social workers are skilled at assessing individual’s needs, and in this case may have gotten a more clear picture of what was going on with the woman - such as by offering to call a family member who could have provided additional health information.
manicmonday122 t1_jaqjc70 wrote
Of course, they want to avoid lawsuits, but Emtala is a very costly one. The issue for the cops or social worker is the hospital just medically cleared her and said they wouldn't take her back. I don't know if there was another hospital in the city but that leaves very few options for the social worker or cops!
D-Spornak t1_janrd30 wrote
Another reason never to go to Tennessee.
noobengland t1_jaoh0lo wrote
Agreed, so far it’s the worst state I’ve ever been (I’ve been to around 30!)
therealDrA t1_jap032g wrote
Two words: Marcia Blackburn
Stubeezy t1_jamtha3 wrote
Inexcusable.
moreobviousthings t1_jan11qb wrote
I grew up in Tennessee and am constantly disgusted with how the state is changing. The KKK was always there, but good people used to keep them in the shadows. Now, it seems Tennessee is trying to be the Reddest state in the country.
nonosejoe t1_jan37rr wrote
Tennessee, Florida and Texas are all competing for most deplorable people.
Ass_ManagerHankHill t1_janh65z wrote
Don't forget California
Flat_Owl2401 t1_jaqsqbp wrote
3rd world states.
WickedDog310 t1_jao308v wrote
Okay, but here's the thing. If an electrician comes to your house says your house is safe then your real estate agent is going to believe them, they aren't the expert, the only thing they can do is get another opinion.
These cops absolutely should have treated her better and should have transported her to another medical facility, she's obviously in need of medical care, and they aren't in the position to provide that. Between the slurring words, the inability to hold herself up, what I'm absolutely sure would be some crazy pupil responses, they absolutely knew she needed care. What's worse is the way the hospital weaponized the police against this woman. The hospital dismissed this woman's pain and legitimate concerns because they couldn't be bothered, and most likely because they are understaffed and burnt out and can't manage the patient loads. Any good nurse will say their main job is patient advocacy, they advocate for patients to get the right combo of meds, they make sure that Dr's who look at charts for .3 seconds don't order something that would hurt the patient.
Pull up Fort Sanders' glass door and you'll see nurses had mandatory overtime, 14:1 patient/nurse ratios, 32:1 patient/CNA ratios, EMTs used in place of nurses, ohh and wait for it.... "Militaristic security force"
This was more than police being police. This was a hospital who knew exactly how police be policing and used them against an elderly woman.
allhailthehale t1_jao468y wrote
>Okay, but here's the thing. If an electrician comes to your house says your house is safe then your real estate agent is going to believe them, they aren't the expert, the only thing they can do is get another opinion.
Sure. In this case I don't think it's necessarily on the cops that they took her away from the hospital initially-- that's indicative of a fucked up medical system that is using the police as a tool.
But that doesn't excuse the attitude of the cops-- the huge amount of total dick behavior and absolute callousness on display here that led them to ignore her worsening symptoms and make her last moments so horrible.
Both systems are sick. No one gets off the hook here.
WickedDog310 t1_jao7z0r wrote
I'm not in any way saying it excuses the attitude of the cops. Their attitude, their lack of care and their delay in getting her care. I would think it would be worth looking at to see if it meets the definition of negligent homicide. Can they really stand by and watch someone in medical crisis and not do anything? As she was in their custody they had a duty of care. They can't override the doctors at that medical facility. But it should have been treated like any other trespassing case. Where if I call the police because your trespassing at my house, and you start experiencing a medical emergency, they are required to call an ambulance. I don't care if she was being trespassed from a medical facility. She was in their care and should have received medical transport and a new admit to a different facility.
barsoapguy t1_jap5pbb wrote
But why would they take her to a new facility when the hospital stated she was fine and ordered her removed ? Wouldn’t she have been arguing with the cops when they arrived that she needed more care , then I’m sure the hospital staff would have argued back that she’s fine and needs to go.
After she’s with the police of course their going to think she was faking it in order to go back to said hospital she was just removed from.
It definitely sounds like the failure was on the hospital.
Lonnie_Shelton t1_jao763q wrote
I’m guessing if she had good insurance they would have found room for her and she would be alive.
Flat_Owl2401 t1_jaqsl87 wrote
That's freedom in America. Note my sarcasm.
mkmck t1_jaogs3m wrote
The hospital discharged her, saying she was OK, and she died of a stroke shortly after? The cops arrest her and say she's faking? Her family is going to make huge bank on those lawsuits.
Chomperoni t1_jandu72 wrote
I saw this the other day but didn’t realize the RI connection. Truly so sad to see someone’s final moments, while at a hospital surrounded by people meant to be public servants.
readingbabe t1_janq58n wrote
May she rest at peace. ACAB always and forever.
barsoapguy t1_jap7ihz wrote
The cops only carried out the instructions from the hospital that forced her out saying she was completely fine. It’s not the fault of the officers.
bambooboi t1_jans03d wrote
They'll be sued but everyone will keep their job. These are incompetent and asshole cops we're talking about! Since when is there justice for them??
joearchang t1_japymq5 wrote
…and the pigs get a paid vacation! Lucky it wasn’t my mom! My life goals would change very quickly!
Slingtown_Slinger t1_jaq1cvj wrote
Shithole country
blcole95 t1_jaqni7c wrote
God that is atrocious. I hope she has family that can sue that hospital and police department. What an awful way to fucking go.
Mfiske925 t1_jaqq1j3 wrote
I hate the south
Delicious_Grape1313 t1_jb2yti1 wrote
Tennessee prosecutor made a statement today that they will not be pressing charges against any of the cops involved in the horrific manhandling and her ultimate death.
“Allen said her office cannot press criminal charges against the officers who arrested Edwards for trespassing.
The autopsy ruled that Edwards died from natural causes, specifically a stroke.
“And because of what the regional forensic center has determined from a medical standpoint, legally, I can't charge,” Allen said. 😡😡😡
I hope her family hires a great lawyer; may she RIP.
RedditSkippy t1_jan5160 wrote
This seems like an exceptionally grim story. A woman, with a history of stroke, goes to an ER for care. She’s given the bare minimum to get her back on the street. She feels the care was inadequate so she advocated for herself. Instead of calling a social worker, the hospital calls the cops. Everyone ignores her claim that she can’t breathe. She has another stroke in the police cruiser. This is fucked up.