Comments
j0hn0b t1_itw4ugz wrote
I’m from the area and that’s been the biggest complaint this entire time. Just run trains for big events to Boston, even for commuting it’s tough if you’re not the exact 9-5 commute.
cyoung2011 t1_itwp6ud wrote
The last train departing South Station at 11pm is the stupidest thing... no opportunity to stay late for a sports game or concert, unless you leave early and pray you make that last train
Hoagiecat16 t1_itwmkqk wrote
Exactly. I used to take this to Boston 2x a week but the schedule changed with COVID. It’s a great idea but not user friendly. I think if this ran on weekends a lot more people would take it to the airport or providence for events like waterfire.
criesduringsex t1_itv2ic6 wrote
Kingston Station is ten miles down the tracks from Wickford, and is nearly adjacent to URI, a university with 18,000 students. But instead of just running the trains there, to a station that already exists, linking the state's largest university with its largest city, they spent tens of millions of dollars on a train to a giant parking lot in the middle of nowhere.
iandavid t1_itv962k wrote
For that matter, there were historically train stations in Auburn (Cranston), Apponaug (Warwick), and East Greenwich – all of which are still relatively dense, walkable areas that could easily support commuter service. But RIDOT opted to leapfrog all those communities in favor of building a station out in the woods of North Kingstown. It shows they wouldn’t understand good transportation policy even if it was barreling down on them at 79mph, horns blaring.
TheSausageFattener t1_itvy5fz wrote
Man don’t forget TF Green. That station is only good if you’re trying to get to the airport.
iandavid t1_itw17o6 wrote
What’s interesting about TF Green station is that it’s just south of the old Hillsgrove station. So it almost counts as restoring a useful commuter station, except that being close to the airport meant that there was never much density there to begin with.
316714407 t1_itwqji5 wrote
Hi, I grew up and still currently live in the Auburn neighborhood in Cranston and this is my first time hearing of the train station that existed here. That is actually really cool, I’m assuming on Rolfe Square?
iandavid t1_itwrc8m wrote
It was further east of Rolfe Square but still off Park Ave, on a street that still bears the name “Station Street”. More info and photos on this page: https://sites.google.com/site/rhodeislandrailroads/home/east-providence-south/east-providence-north/pwb-route/main-line
316714407 t1_itwumr6 wrote
Ah that would make sense, since the tracks are still there 😂.
laterbacon t1_itv5xfy wrote
Oh no that would have made too much sense, especially considering that URI also has a big presence in Providence.
But hey, at least I can get to Walmart and Staples 3 times a day
[deleted] t1_itvx4nd wrote
[deleted]
FAYCSB t1_itvro90 wrote
As someone who lived at URI when I commuted to Boston from WJ, this would have been awesome. That said, Wickford is closer to more major roads (4 and 95) and the further south you go the less likely you are to find people to do the crazy commute.
misterspokes t1_itvbm0g wrote
There's freight lines to Quonset they could have used, there were also speculative plans to try to route to Newport using existing rail easement. They dicked this hard in so many ways.
ToadScoper OP t1_itvsb08 wrote
Restoring passenger rail between Providence and Worcester (potentially to even Worcester) via the P&W line would also be lucrative. The only time RI DOT ever considered forming a passenger rail authority is when it unsubsidized MBTA providence service in the 70s; the state wanted its own regional trains which would have gone as far as Bristol via the former Providence, Warren, and Bristol line (that line is now the east bay bike path)
RecoillessRifle t1_iu8xw3l wrote
Boston Surface Railroad was supposed to do this but it’s hasn’t gone anywhere despite the Providence and Worcester Railroad being interested.
blueplasticgirl t1_itvqt6a wrote
Legit. While doing construction on Broadway recently, they just dug up some rails by the Island Liquors that used to be used for street cars. 😭
ToadScoper OP t1_ituvznd wrote
I personally think Wickford Junction serves as a good case study for transit non-development; rather, the "build it and they will come" mentality for transit stations does not work if there are no conditions for building dense, mixed-use transit-oriented development surrounding transit centers (this applies to adequate zoning conditions as well). Additionally, Wickford Junction originally opened with no intermodal connections to RIPTA (which is insane) and contained a hilariously large parking garage that has never been full once. Ultimately, the station was not designed by transit planners- it was designed by clueless politicians who wanted to cut the ribbon for a big capital project. Fortunately, the new Pawtucket-Central Falls station seems to be getting a lot right that Wickford Junction got completely wrong. I think a Wickford MBTA station could have worked if the station structure itself was scaled back along with better direction from a transit-oriented perspective.
FAYCSB t1_ituyx7l wrote
I used the WJ station for about a year. The train doesn’t seem to run enough to make it worth it to go into Providence for work on a daily basis, and two hours on a train to get to Boston (plus whatever the drive time to get to the station) is a bit much for a Rhode Islander to do every day.
JasonDJ t1_itx4ucw wrote
A friend of mine took TF Green to Backbay every day for a job. Made it sound like a not big deal, convinced me to get a job in Boston
I rode from S Attleboro to South Station, and then red line to Kendall, for about a year before I started to drive it instead. And then I started working from home.
I cannot go back to that commute. The train isn’t so bad…it’s idle time which I don’t seem to get a lot of these days, and could really use more of. But the schedule sucks, and driving into Cambridge is just so damn draining.
FAYCSB t1_itxasf1 wrote
I’m in Cumberland now. The switch from Wickford to Attleboro/South was great. An hour seems like so much better than 2+. But after working from home for two and a half years the thought of having to go back to commuting regularly is…not great.
Rhodysurf t1_itxcx9p wrote
My wife did it for a year. It’s a fucking slog to do every single day
pico-pico-hammer t1_itv06ky wrote
What was the use case for the Wickford Junction line? It can't be that they expected people to travel to Wickford Junction on the train, because there's so little within walking distance to make it useful. Were they hoping people who worked in South County would commute to the station, park there, and take the T to their jobs in Providence, or Boston? I doubt there are many commuters in South County who work in Boston, due to the 2+ hour commute each way. I also doubt there are many people who work in Providence who would take the rail, because public transportation in Providence is awful. Unless you work right by the station, you are looking at a commute of the same exact amount of time if not longer by taking the train. If you have a connecting bus, since there's no subway in Providence, you're looking at an hour+ commute instead of 30 - 45 minutes. This ignores whatever your commute time from your home to Wickford Junction is. The population around there is not dense enough to support the rail line or to allow residents to live without owning a car.
ToadScoper OP t1_itv8u2v wrote
RI must expand and transform its transit, it’s ridiculous that for being the densest state it completely lacks its own regional rail, water taxis, or even an LRT. RI has huge potential for all these modes of transit but it refuses to consider or subsidize them
Proof-Variation7005 t1_itvgp3x wrote
I think all of those things should be better, but it's not like we have unlimited resources to add/improve that stuff. Those things would cost a LOT of money and I'm not sure there's just a pile of extra cash in the state budget to subsidize it.
Trying to convince the public to increase taxes to cover those costs would be political suicide.
Proof-Variation7005 t1_itv40om wrote
>Were they hoping people who worked in South County would commute to the station, park there, and take the T to their jobs in Providence, or Boston?
I think that's exactly what they were going for. Mostly Providence (downtown)
Mutabilitie t1_itv60vm wrote
They are going to build apartments adjacent to the parking garage.
I’ve done the commute to Providence a few times. It is kind of nice to go right past all the traffic. But I wouldn’t make it a habit, since it costs me more time and money than driving. And I have to drive to WJ anyways.
ToadScoper OP t1_itvts1o wrote
Apartments are only one facet of transit-oriented development, dense mixed-use zoning in the vicinity of transit stations is also needed. Transit centers do not work when they are solely constructed to complement cars
Rhodysurf t1_itxd434 wrote
There used to be more people commuting to boston from south county than you would think, but think Covid changed that a lot
laterbacon t1_itvkuq4 wrote
I'm glad Wickford's failure didn't doom Pawtucket because that station is going to drastically change the landscape for me. I'm a 10 minute bike ride away from the Pawtucket station and I'm very excited about it coming online soon. Now they just need to increase the train frequency, but if I time it right I can get from my house in Lincoln to downtown Providence in under 20 minutes which is faster than driving most of the time especially when you take parking into account.
monkysandtools t1_itw01pv wrote
I really wish the MBTA could have re utilized the former Pawtucket Central Falls Station; yes, it would be too big per se for just commuter rail, but considering the floor space, commercial use would be ideal (almost like Star Market over the mass pike)
ToadScoper OP t1_itw1nqe wrote
From what I understand, they originally considered using the former Pawtucket Central Falls station site; however, the curvature of the NEC below the station could not accommodate modern standards for 800ft long platforms
laterbacon t1_itwfdus wrote
I do too but it's a minor miracle that it's still standing. IMO that building was doomed as soon as they built that CVS in front of it
Cash50911 t1_itxehxw wrote
So you are a governor, with a budget of x, how do you partition it? It is a tough decision when you really have to.
Imo the best return on investment from government spending comes from 75% infrastructure 25% maintainence 0% marketing. What is the rate of return of this project over any other project that money can go too.
As an employee of government, I know there is no plan. There is never a plan, it's always let's just do something.
UncleJimmee t1_itvia9f wrote
Also biking anywhere near the WJ station is insane. 102 is a crap show, no shoulders or bike infrastructure. No sidewalks even!! according to ridot 102 is a bike route. lol nfw, it's deadly.
SupermarketFluid3144 t1_itvuaz0 wrote
Can we also talk about how there’s no link from Newport County to either providence or Boston? I live in Tiverton and drive to Attleboro to pick up the train for my commute to Boston. Thank god I only commute 1x-3x per week. I don’t know if I could do this every day.
brogaant t1_itvyfxt wrote
Fall River is voting in two weeks on joining the MBTA, so that may be a better option for you if it passes.
SupermarketFluid3144 t1_itvylsc wrote
They’re building the line already so it’s passed. It’s scheduled to open fall 2023 so with how things work I’m guessing it will be operational sometime in 2025
brogaant t1_itw0g39 wrote
Residents have to vote yes to the question on the ballot, otherwise the MBTA trains will certainly pass through the city on the tracks that are already built, but they won’t stop at the station for passengers. We’ll see if the train is allowed to stop (AKA the city joins the MBTA) on 11/8.
ToadScoper OP t1_itw2hcw wrote
MassDOT does not own the track bed past the Fall River-Tiverton border which creates an issue for reactivating the line. A new Sakonnet rail bridge would need to be constructed as well to connect the Fall River line to the Newport secondary
SupermarketFluid3144 t1_itw3s7d wrote
I don’t think that’s part of the plan. From things I’ve seen/read it’s just focused on connecting Fall River, New Bedford and Taunton with Boston via the existing Middlebourgh/Lakeville line and secondary to the Providence/Stoughton line
ToadScoper OP t1_itw4lmn wrote
Technically South Coast Rail will not be “truly” complete till 2030 since they still have to connect the Fall River/new bedford line from stoughton through Taunton, Raynham, and Easton. Until that is done, the south coast lines have to routed from middleboro which will undoubtedly be an operational nightmare for the MBTA
bambooboi t1_itvpy48 wrote
Dont say "the jury is still out" on this failed station.
Its as sad as the warwick station with its foolishly large parking deck.
brick1972 t1_itv0x43 wrote
If we had a local train that ran in the gaps between the MBTA trains so that people could use it for getting to Providence or the airport it might have been worth it. As an MBTA only thing it always felt like a giant failure waiting to happen. I blame the MBTA as well.
Like a RI local train that went from westerly to Pawtucket (or even just Providence due to the line restrictions at Pawtucket) could get these stations more use. But it's not a guarantee.
laterbacon t1_itv4mtw wrote
My dream is to have a frequent EMU service from Pawtucket to Westerly, stopping in Providence, Olneyville, Auburn (Cranston), TF Green, Apponaug, East Greenwich, Wickford, and Kingston. If this state gave a shit about anyone not in a car, it might be more than a dream but I don't have a lot of hope especially when the R-Line was supposed to be a pilot program to roll out similar service on other lines. Still waiting for that, and for the features that would make the existing R-Line actual rapid transit instead of a dressed up bus with poorly maintained stops.
If RIPTA actually tried and wasn't headed by a republican former suburban mayor it might actually improve, but we need a huge shakeup in transit leadership.
brick1972 t1_itv76sc wrote
The fact that RIPTA gets stuck in the same traffic as cars really limits its attractiveness.
I live and work on the 1 (essentially) so I can take the bus with no transfer. Even ignoring the walking time to the stops and assuming I time it perfectly the bus takes 1.5-2 times as long as just driving (largely because driving I can avoid downtown where of course the 1 is obligated to go through college hill and downtown). Since there is some walking time and because of the bus being late that is more like 3 times as long in practice.
Which is to say I'm with you on having real BRT (not that the 1 would be a good candidate necessarily just saying)
laterbacon t1_itv8ffi wrote
I got rid of my car a while back and I mostly ride my bike everywhere, but I rely on the R line quite a bit to get me down into Providence. I like not having to worry about parking or paying attention to traffic but they could vastly improve the service without a whole lot of effort. The thing about transit is that if it's fast and reliable and affordable people will actually use it. It's somewhat encouraging the ridership on the R line has increased a lot since it's been free. I think free buses are the key to a good transit system since transit funding is largely tied to ridership. It's a virtuous cycle of making important bus lines free, increasing ridership, and getting more funding to improve service. It all requires buy in from the community though and too many people see transit as something that only "undesirables" use.
ToadScoper OP t1_itv83tm wrote
It makes way too much sense for RI to create its own passenger rail authority, especially if it were a service similar to the Lake Shore Limited or the MN New Haven Lines in Connecticut. Unfortunately, RI DOT only prioritizes highway infrastructure and buses, it refuses to do anything else. This extends to the fact that it scrapped a fully funded Providence LRT plan in 2015 since they only wanted to do buses (granted the LRT plan was quite flawed, but the project should not have been canceled). Sooner or later RI will realize it cannot lean on the MBTA for regional services, however, it will take a LOT of political pressure for RI to even consider rail.
Intrepid_Priority154 t1_itv1ls2 wrote
Why blame the MBTA? RI could have their own train that runs more frequently from wickford to s Attleboro where it meets an MBTA train and the riders could switch.
brick1972 t1_itv208e wrote
The MBTA is famous for prioritizing big capital projects over system maintenance and improvements, and therefore would not surprise me if they participated in unrealistic ridership projections.
neonys t1_itvsqiv wrote
I commuted to Boston from WJ for school every day for a semester and it wasn’t too bad, it has advantages over Amtrak from Kingston since it has more morning trains. I also enjoyed it as a basically free train to the airport with free parking since nobody usually checks your ticket until after you pass TF Green
401-Climber t1_itwpf69 wrote
I ride it fairly often to visit family in the Boston suburbs. There is no easy way to get there from Newport via bus. It’s a very convoluted, multi bus journey. With a lot of standing outside/on the side of route one, waiting for connections. To a place that has no where to sit to wait for a train. Then coming back, only go to providence to then take a two hour bus home. All around it sucks.
boulevardofdef t1_itvsulf wrote
Wickford Junction just doesn't make any sense and I have a very hard time imagining what could be done to seriously increase ridership. It's the Boston commuter rail. It's nearly two hours to Boston. Anything over two hours door to door is considered an "extreme commute." Large numbers of people are never going to use a train station for extreme commuting. And there's just not enough demand for a train into Providence when driving from there is always going to be faster and easier; traffic into Providence just isn't bad enough.
ToadScoper OP t1_itvv2u7 wrote
The only way the station could be saved is either subsidizing more services (such as Amtrak and/or forming a dedicated RI regional rail authority) or rezoning the area around the station for dense mixed-use development to actually promote the station as an actual destination for transit riders. Amtrak cannot use Wickford Junction since the siding is isolated from the NEC and is also unelectrified. The rezoning of the area around the station would be nearly impossible considering the NIMBY factor. Either way, it would take a long time and a lot of money to make the station viable.
boulevardofdef t1_itvvhq0 wrote
I just have my doubts that transit-oriented development would even work around there because it's too far from Boston. Providence commuters are a better bet but I doubt the critical mass is there.
unhpian t1_itx29d1 wrote
I use it twice a week to commute to Boston for work, and there's routinely about 40 people getting on the 6 am train, and about 100 getting off at wickford on the 6 pm train, so, it's being used, but not to it's design potential, but people definitely use it to commute to Boston, not Providence
TheSausageFattener t1_itvzabl wrote
They sort of bury the lede here that amidst all of this talk of “it’ll get better if we build more housing” is that the state is looking at a $274 million Amtrak hookup at TF Green, which I think is a worse station. $44 million for Wickford isn’t a lot of money compared to some of these highway projects, and neither is Pawtucket Station. But dumping that much into Warwick? The fuck?
ToadScoper OP t1_itw3dt3 wrote
The TF Green station should have been electrified to accommodate Amtrak from the start, it was a massive oversight. TF green could also benefit from a frequent air-shuttle train between union and Warwick to actually facilitate ridership by rail between the airport and Providence, this could be accomplished with short EMU sets.
TheSausageFattener t1_itwl51c wrote
Exactly, though I think they should have put the station in Apponaug with that roundabout project they did. Then they could have tried running a Silver Line style bus from the station to the airport.
The article even mentions that the MBTA and DOT are discussing the feasibility of the service these stations are getting with such low ridership. That is not a good sign. Given how Massachusetts is trying to upzone around commuter rail stops I’d bet they’re less inclined to service RI if RI doesn’t do the same.
noodlegod47 t1_itwb95b wrote
Them not having late night trains really sucks, and not having any trains at all on weekends has eliminated many of my travel wishes to Boston. I love trains but how many ppl work 9-5 in Boston and live in NK?
Glittering_Cancel675 t1_itxlwrq wrote
TL;DR: NIMBYism has prevented transit-oriented development, the idea is a good one but could never work in NK just due to the very uppity nature of the town and the opposition to any development that the town's citizens have. I and some others use the station and like it, it does its job well but there's just not a market due to this.
The thing nobody outside of NK ever hears about is that there have been many years of attempts to build transit-oriented development in the Wickford Junction development to no avail because of residents' pushback. The original agreement on which the property owner allowed the MBTA station to be built there was that the town would allow them to develop low to medium-income apartments in that big empty dirt lot between Walmart and the station. Well, many many years later, that has not come to fruition because every time the developer proposes it the whole town goes ballistic. NK is an extraordinarily NIMBY town, and people will blatantly say they don't want "those types" in their pristine coastal town (referring to lower-income people).
The other main concern is that that plot of land has been moved to a higher level of watershed protection since the development started, making it very complicated to build. But, even when the developers send in reasonable new plans with good accommodations to protect the watershed, it gets shut down for the aforementioned reasons. Thus, we're stuck in this in-between of having the train station for the people but not the people for the train station.
I live within a few minutes bike ride of the station. At my new job, I'll be taking the train to and from Providence to work. The concept is very sound- give people the opportunity to work in Providence or Boston and live in a nice suburb with good schools, without the headache of driving. Had the concept been implemented as it should have, I believe NK would be a much bigger and more prosperous town than it already is due to its obvious appeal.
​
(throwaway bc location)
mcsteam98 t1_ityv03l wrote
Ah Wickford…
Alright for railfanning, but a crap station for any real use. It could’ve been a good station but nah, instead Lincoln Chafee signed off on what, quite literally, is a boondoggle where RIPTA is faster - despite URI being a few miles south. At least it seems they learned with the new station in Pawtucket though.
I feel like if a second platform was built and electrified and if the Shore Line East was extended out here (assuming the Westerly extension happens and ends well) it’d probably help with ridership significantly.
[deleted] t1_ityv7jq wrote
[deleted]
Ecstatic-Abies2238 t1_iu3tkbf wrote
Used to commute via the T to and from Boston every day always good but public transport in ri is an absolute joke.
[deleted] t1_itvgfy1 wrote
[deleted]
listen_youse t1_itwzllf wrote
The garage may be useful someday when we remove I95 from Providence. People out in the sticks who still drive cars and want to go to Providence will have to park there and they will love it because there will be a train every 10 minutes all day long.
SuddenlySimple t1_itvp9w4 wrote
Surprised? Lol
shadowcaster11 t1_ituzz6y wrote
but union jobs. lol
Aeronaute t1_itv0a4y wrote
There are also no trains to/from Wickford Junction on the weekends, or late on weeknights. The schedule is hostile to anyone not commuting to a 9-5 job, and misses a lot of recreational use potential.