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Awesome. Now give it to all Americans not just a select few. We all pay for it.

I want healthcare for all but that's not happening soon. We owe them this and so much more so I'll happily pay in taxes for this.

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Oh no the treaty that our people had to be subjected to racism, removal of their land, and genocide is being expanded for current times.

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Why do we owe them more than any other citizen? Are their lives worth more?

Trail of Tears was an asshole move on our part. So many other things we’ve done as well. The systematic racism towards the indigenous population in the US is on a level as bad as the Jim Crow era and beyond for the BIPOC communities.

The indigenous communities won’t see the respect and support they deserve until we rid the racist cultures in our government, starting with the GQP and Far Right factions of our society.

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>on our part

Damn bro how old are you

For those not in the know: via treaty with the US government certain rights were either received (such as health care) or retained (such as hunting and fishing) in perpetuity by Native Tribes when they ceded their lands to said government. While Indian Health Services is certainly better than nothing, it is definitely in need of improvement.

Age is just a number. But to recognize and grow up from the asshole I was just a few years ago, it’s time I make amends for the mistakes of my forefathers. The so-called “Great Awakening” for me wasn’t through QAnon, but through the realization that I’d been a pain in the butt.

I’m trying to be better.

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Read a history book dude.

We already do it to every single retired military person, providing platinum medical care to them, their spouses and children... In addition to paying most thousands per month in disability while still allowing them to work full time. Ass to that education benefits that they can give to their spouse or children.

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It also provided $388m for affordable housing which is why it's even more absurd that republicans were against it.

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If only thats how it worked for most retired military. The VA, “ looks like your spine has broken in 3 places due to your successful ejection from a malfunctioning F-13. I’ll send the forms over and we can get you a back brace in about 6 months.”

Or their tribes can pay for it with the money they take in from casinos. It's a racket, just like non natives.

I'm sorry but no, "platinum care" couldn't be farther from the truth. Tens of thousands of retired military and war veterans are denied benefits or stuck in never ending run around referrals to get benefits or disabilities approved. In the military we call Tri-care (the military insurance), Try And Get Us to Care.

Have some hope with the recently passed bill allocating enough budget to increase VA benefits 22% to help more much needed vets.

Our ancestors committed genocide against their ancestors. We used the land we stole from them to become the richest nation in recorded human history. Our lives are orders of magnitude easier than they otherwise would have been, and their lives are orders of magnitude worse than they otherwise would have been. Therefore, continuing to benefit from that situation without attempting to right the wrong in some way is morally wrong.

No, and nobody is saying that. They did get kinda super screwed over though... I feel like there's more than enough wealth in this country to give them some of what was taken.

I get where you're coming from: you arent directly responsible for that, so why should you have to pay for it? I'm not sure I have an answer for you other than 'its the right thing to do', as I think you'd probably want help if you were in their shoes. I know I would. All (or most? I don't know) of the people who were directly responsible for it are dead. They can't make it up to them anymore (not would they want to). So if it's going to happen, somebody has to make the sacrifice. Why not us? Let's be real: they're probably never going to get the vast majority of what was taken, so it seems like the right thing to do to help where we can..

To put that all in terms of money (this is gonna feel real gross): helping people develop a better life is almost always good for the economy. People who are dying don't stimulate the economy. Happy, healthy, thriving people do. That wasn't very fun at all!

Everyone's been genocided by everyone at some point.

That's pretty cool! Anyone who is capable of admitting that is pretty dang cool in me book. That's not easy :)

Also I can't stop laughing at your comment; I've never heard someone use "age is just a number" in a positive, non creepy way before lol

Not republican, and not against that. Against it being rammed through at the absolute last minute, and the billions going to very very strange things that won’t benefit many Americans at all.

It was "rammed through at the last minute" because Republicans kept pushing for short incremental authorizations as they kicked the can down the road.

Now if only the government voted to give us the same benefits they have voted for themselves

Except that it's completely not

It literally is. It is just positive racism. It is giving people special treatment based on race.

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And that's how war works...

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.

I had a similar conversation with a VA employee recently(and I'm a retired vet myself), and he was saying something similar. "We already have a system in place." Yeah not the best, but at least it's a functional model to start with. I'm very grateful that I don't ever have to worry about healthcare stuff like a lot of Americans do. The VA has had my back 100% of the time and I never have to wait very long for anything.

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All that bolstering is just going to go to IHS resources. Which they need but it’ll mostly be indirect costs - salaries and administration costs. We could use better quality of care in remote NA communities.

nothing like inequality to get a redditor sopping wet.....

Well shit! Everybody is a victim of theft at some point. Let's legalize theft! What a great fucking way to build a society!

No I just saying treating victims of theft differently is weird. If there's white kids in poverty and native kids in poverty and black kids in poverty we should be helping all of them

Indigenous ***

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I can confirm. I went for help with alcoholism, depression and anxiety and they couldn't really do much to help me because the few programs they have were full for the foreseeable future.

Did you get the help you needed somewhere?

I'm glad you're honest about this, a lot of veterans like to act like they are getting some third world care when in fact it's better than most private insurance and far cheaper. I worked with a guy that made $80k+/yr as a GS civil service employee, while also 100% disabled getting $42k+ tax free per year, in addition to healthcare for themselves and their families, easily valued at another $20k/yr. And in Florida disabled veterans at that level also don't have to pay property taxes.

People hold grudges. Especially if you know when it's in your own blood and own ancestors that were treated unfairly. And you go to public places and see how people of different races (especially white people) still treat you dirt, show subtle discomfort in your presence, or shit even after so many years ago in history. Yes we will hold grudges. The U.S. has done a lot more then just genocide to the natives to be the most hated country.

The US has been in over 20 coups in Latin America in the 50s and 60s. Destabilizing and undermining Latin American democracy in the name of money and greed. You don't think America is the terrorist? Lol. America provoked a war with the Mexicans and robbed us of California, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nevada. Then made the treaty to make the border south of rio grande. Then Mexicans are propagandized as criminals trying to cross the border that was originally Mexican soil that the U.S. (white people) are so proud of. Then you get American tourists in mexico that think they're above everyone else cause of their white skin. Like yeah we know you tour our land and go back home, enjoy our food and women and celebrate our holidays. Like fuck you guys. You destroyed decades of culture and livelihood for these people in these countries. You can even see the aftermath of the wars it cause it even after so many years. Mexico lost a lot of recognition after that war and a lot of Mexicans believe we were robbed and still hold resentment over the American people that the land should be given back.

That awkward moment when you're Native without a tribe...

We get ALL of the lost land, identity and culture with none of the reparations.

How much land should we give back. Some all? Should we all be sent back to Europe

Yes, nobody wants you here.

I work in an IHS facility. Increased funding is good news. Until you live and work on a reservation, you can't fully appreciate how unlevel the playing field is in life.

A lot of tribes refer to themselves as indians or native americans

Absurd? It's entirely consistent with their behavior.

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I assume you meant the aid going to Ukraine when you said "billions going to very very strange things"? Those benefit Americans by extending the influence of the USA and increasing USA standing in the world after DT trashed it, and all the contracts for the mic means more jobs, more taxes, more revenue, more growth. Have you noticed that the USA is the one faring the best in this recession? Ukraine is an easy spending, vs a bunch of 50 each pulling in different directions. If you want to know why the fed don't directly invest the billions in the USA instead, that's why.

The US owes us more. Pay your rent.

You're right.

Thing is, when a group is advocating for something, they aren't saying only advocate for that, they aren't saying dismiss other causes. You don't go in front of them and say "what about this or that?" Example: Saying all loves matter when someone says black lives matter. To do so is to dismiss the message being presented.

That said, this Indian healthcare thing is even more simple, the gov has a contract with the Indians, in writing, that hey have to execute. And they're executing it. That's it. If you feel incredulous that other coloured kids aren't getting helped, they are groups that advocate for those causes, you can contribute to those.

It is a treaty RIGHT. Please tell me how it is weird to abide by a signed agreement.The U.S. has, and continues to, break signed treaties with tribes. Tribes were able to "enforce" this right but even then it is adequately funded which partially explains how Native health outcomes are incredibly bad compared to other ethnic/racial groups in the U.S.

Indian Health Services has to compete for funding with other government agencies. It isn't an entitlement (or held in trust) and funding has to be approved by Congress. Remember when people were bitching about death panels? IHS has something called Purchased/Referred Care. Referrals and emergencies are ranked on a priority scale from 1 (emergency, life-threatening) to 5 (cosmetic/elective/experimental treatments). If a tribe runs out of money, they can't pay for services and if they can't pay, your referral gets deferred until either more funding shows up or something super not good happens that moves you up the priority scale such as having a heart attack. So preventative care isn't guaranteed and worse health outcomes are a result. Now have that happen for generations and tell me it's weird to treat victims of theft differently? We stole their land, their language & culture, their children (boarding schools then, foster care now) and underfund their health programs. Learn some history...😒

My grandmother was beaten for speaking our language and sent to boarding schools. Reparations are owed.

So we get rid of all people that at one point emigrated? That includes Indians we'd all have to go back to Africa

Genocide isn't war

whispers "that should hush em for a while and stop this crazy talk about having more reps in Congress...among 'us'...you know what I mean..."

Like Juneteenth "suddenly" becoming important enough for a national "holiday".

Im a native American.

As in - I was born in America. Not somewhere else:

Why tf do people born in America today not get the same treatment as people born in America today?

And why tf would I be happy about being treated differently when it is quite literally people like ME who pay taxes and they don’t?!

And just so we’re clear - I think ALL tax paying citizens in the US should be given the same treatment - regardless of race, religion, or where their grandparents are from.

The proper word for white people to use is indigenous.

And here I am constantly wracked with guilt over what I'm taking from the system lol. And you're right; I've heard that same cynical perspective from fellow vets more than a few times. I kinda get where the perception comes from("you guys did XYZ in good faith for your nation and now the gubment is gonna drag their feet with your treatment?"), but just because something doesn't work as well as it could or even should, does not mean it is trash.

On top of getting paid every month so that I don't have to work if I don't want to(I don't lol), I've gotten every kind of treatment I needed and thensome. Tons of psyche stuff, but also optical, dental, back stuff, whatever I've needed help with. They have also helped get me into housing programs when I was on the streets for a bit, have helped by getting me into fun programs like Drum Circle, and free medication. And yeah some of the employees DGAF but you'll find that anywhere, and on the flipside of that token I've met tons of compassionate, caring people at the VA.

And when I was stuck in a cycle of self-destruction and kept finding myself in the VA psyche ward with suicidal ideations, feeling guilty over like my seventh stay in about a three year span, a nurse there told me "Even if you have to come back here a hundred times, we are here to help you through it with open arms and a compassionate ear" which really meant a ton to me at the time.

That seventh trip was one of my last trips in a long time, so I guess she was right that I didn't need to kill myself to extricate myself from so many negative feelings. Thank you blonde VA nurse!

Fair to say that's not the only thing in said bill

Thank you so much for sharing that, you really do offer a great perspective! I'm a civilian and pay $17k/yr for health insurance with a $7k out of pocket for the family. It also takes me months to see a specialist and doesn't include dental or vision. I have permanent disabilities due to lack of treatment from military doctors, ironically, when I was a toddler and my dad was in the air force. I get nothing from that and can't sue even though it was malpractice. I struggle to work and provide for my family. I get almost no psyche benefits and struggle. It feels like a black hole with no real help available. I don't fault veterans for getting their benefits, I just wish something could be done for civilians who try so hard and struggle. I'm glad you were able to get the help you needed and are doing better! I appreciate your service and hope that it world gets better for everyone in the future.

This is good news. I still don't think passing a 1.7 trillion dollar spending bill without reading it is a good idea.

Just you

I am Asian so I will refer to them as Native Americans

No you will refer to them as indigenous as well unless they tell you different. 🤡

The reservation needs to be dissolved. Either native Americans are part of the US now and get full access to the same benefits as the rest of us, or they’re independent nations and need to be able to stand on their own. This half way crap is just asinine and stupid

Not really. The best my doc could do was give me some meds that help with alcohol cravings. Other than that, I've been on my own. It's not been great but I do feel better than when I first stopped drinking and trying to get my mental health to an ok place. Things felt pretty hopeless for a bit there.

You'll never regret quitting, but I'm sorry you haven't had more help. That's a rough road.

Let's see who voted against it, please?

means they can have 1 more xray per year. yay.

treaty that the government doesn't respect. as expected.

thanks for your service

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And you will refer to white people as Anglo or Caucasian, unless they tell you otherwise.

Do you see how pompous that sounds? Native American isn't even derogatory. Are you one of those people that refer to us Mexicans as Latin-x also

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I’m indigenous. I won’t refer to them as anything other than settlers.

Thanks.

The US government has made historical treaties with foreign nations. The United States would receive certain benefits and these nations would receive certain benefits in exchange. While those nations have been effectively absorbed into the United States, they do still have sovereignty and they are autonomous legal entities with legal citizens. Tribal benefits do not go to people simply on the basis of ethnicity.

Plenty of people will argue that these treaties are unfair or one-sided or poorly upheld, and any of those may be true, but they are standing treaties. These benefits go to the citizens of those nations. There are thousands and thousands of citizens of tribal nations who are white or black or other races.

This is not a policy based on race or aimed at a particular race, any more than NAFTA is a policy based on race. The former chief of the Cherokee Nation, Bill John Baker, has predominately European ancestry for example, and he and his family are certainly eligible for the various tribal benefits.

Lol call them what you want, who cares

These are not foreign nations or they would have their own passports and wouldn't be american citizens

subsidizing housing will do the same miracles for affordability like it did for higher education.

welcome news

No

Says who? The proper word for any people is the word they want used for themselves.

That varies across the land.

Here in Alaska, the “indigenous” people refer to themselves as “tribes” and the term here is Alaska Native when distinguishing from the non-indigenous settler colonists of any other origin. Someone born in Alaska is a native Alaskan; someone belonging to our indigenous groups is Alaska Native.

The people here identify themselves by their own tribes/villages/regions which roughly correlate to unique language groups or to geographic features. The proper term is provided by the person/group.

White people call the Interior Alaska people “Athabascan” while the people themselves call themselves “Dine” or “Koyukon” or “Tanaina” and so forth.

When they want to draw attention to themselves as one group with common interests with other groups across the world, they may say Indigenous or First Nations or American Indian/Alaska Native. Generally, I follow whatever conventions are given to me by the person in front of me.

Dang is there a hot mess of racist behavior going on in this post. Please delete these people. They are grossly ignorant of centuries of history and should probably just go back where they or their ancestors came from, whichever continent that was besides the Americas.

Racist. Just because I am black doesn't mean my ancestors were from Africa

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That's not really fair, if you don't like part of the bill it doesn't mean you don't like other parts

lol ok

tell me more about your convictions on this matter?

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How about you just stop all the nitpicking and guarantee full coverage healthcare to everyone already?? Cut through so much red tape. Not just for Native Americans, not just for women and children, not just for veterans. Healthcare for every single person, goddammit.

They have some pretty good services here in Washington state. At least in the couple areas where there’s a big casino on native land. Even people making decent money that can get an Indian card get one just for the free healthcare/dental because it’s pretty good.

He's either a bot or npc. Little use in engaging

I’m Native American and couldn’t care less if I’m called that. It’s not derogatory in any way and such a silly thing to complain about.

At the time that they were absorbed into the United States, passports were not in common use and their citizens were not American citizens. It was only in 1924 that Native Americans were given American citizenship.

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It’s bothersome to me I’m allowed to have an opinion.

These days maybe. But that's how it was in those times.

Reparations are still owed

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Just a stranger on Christmas wishing you the best

Ever heard of a treaty - it’s legitimately why the United States government owes them

Hey bro, if you ever need someone to talk you can message me anytime about anything and I promise I'll get back to you. I'm an expert at becoming addicted to everything and quitting eventually so I've got a bit of addiction experience

I get this is just an example but — the VA secretly knows on the low that your claim about ejecting from an “F-13” is made up. That’s why they denied the claim. Fun fact — the USAF never had an F-13 fighter designation in use. So, unless it was a Junkers F-13 manufactured in 1919 by Germany, they’d likely call fraud on this particular claim tongue in cheek

We owe ourselves more.

Great. Now, how about health care for the rest of Americans? Ridiculous that a modern nation doesn’t supply health care for all citizens. This is good news, but not good enough. We need to do better.

Literally no, there's legal precedent to back up this too. The tribes in AK have decent restitution because we proved it was owed by the US government. It doesn't matter how long ago something was, the US government is still around and they still need to pay their debts. Honestly it's a good way to test socialized healthcare and prove it can work on a larger scale.

I worked as a civilian nurse at an army hospital. Active Duty personnel and Veterans received excellent care that was on par or better than civilian hospitals. The staff were also treated better and not worked to the bone the way they are at for profit private hospitals. Conservatives keep pouring the Kool Aid and their constituents greedily drink it up.

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Didn't Mexicans obliterate millions of natives by disease and war and then forcefully assimilate the rest to the point that the native identity no longer exists? And let me get this right, you are mad that the land your ancestors stole was stolen from you by someone else?

Because the healthcare is paid for with other things.

IHS fucking sucks at funding things, the decent ones are heavily subsidized by their tribes.

Try looking at ANTHCs just through IHS.

Our services would be absolute shit without third party payments.

You don't think AN/NI pay taxes?

Also the why of it is because of treaty obligations.

I'm unaware of any tribes who would be opposed to winding things back to the way things were, kindly head back to land you didn't treat for.

The Sioux are going to be super excited to get the Black Hills back.

I'd like the Tongass National Forrest to be back in Tlingit Haida and Tsimshian hands too.

If you want to unwind the treaties that's fine by me.

Giving up free healthcare for the Tongass National forest seems fine with me.

It’s the least the casinos could do. The big one near me makes a couple million a day profit. They just put up a 400 room hotel this year right next to them like it was nothing. They’re owned by a big Vegas casino group. For a tribal casino in Washington state…

I simply think it would be instructive to see just who voted against it, I suspect their reasons will be apparent by their party affiliations.

Lol Americans started assimilating first. Once people caught on what you guys were doing, you guys got mad when the Mexicans were giving you the same treatment. You guys got your tiny penis butthurt and provoked that war. Mexicans are more native than you think. Americans just use "native American" to separate identity from the natives and Mexicans so that Mexicans can't claim they're part native and any land that was rightfully theirs. The natives offered the Americans help by teaching how to produce food and survive off the land. Americans took advantage of their kindness and killed them off. Do I need to tell you any further why the Mexican people think American people are rats till this day? I don't think so. There are lot of Hispanic people who are aware of your kind or hate your kind. Hence, why the "guerros" "gringo" is used so often in a negative connotation.

I used to work for a tribe in which one faction was constantly trying to disenroll another, partly to get rid of its political opponents and partly to make the remaining members' per-capita checks bigger.

In some instances, the disenrolled people were tribal members who had lived on the reservation their whole lives. They lost their per-cap checks, their access to healthcare, even in some cases the right to advertise their artwork as genuine Native American art. It was really a sad situation.

> Honestly it's a good way to test socialized healthcare and prove it can work on a larger scale.

The article doesn't sound like it's working too well.

Two of my husbands were former military and had to deal with the VA in two different states. It was a nightmare. I'm glad to hear the facility you worked at was a good one but that isn't universal.

Ah yes, one little thing to soften the $1.7T blow to taxpayers.

The same reason renters pay rent to landlords: they owned it first. The native Americans have “leased” their lands to the United States via various treaties.

Prior to grocery shopping, you make a shopping list based on your needs and overall budget. When you go grocery shopping, you spend most of your time putting things in your cart, mentally keeping track of how much your total is. Then you go to the cashier and pay.

All of Congress spends the entire year writing legislation that commits the government to spending money (aka making the shopping list and putting groceries in the cart). Then they total it up in a spending bill at the end of the year (aka going to the cashier to pay).

It has long been argued that the portions of the spending bills to fund legislation that’s already been voted for shouldn’t even be necessary. To repeat: the spending bill shouldn’t even need to exist.

So in essence, everyone has already read 98% of the spending bill before it’s technically authored because they argued about (and read the text of) the individual bills that committed the government to spend this money before the individual votes.

The thing to actually complain about is that last bit of stuff they throw in specifically because they know the overall spending bill must pass (again, because everyone already committed to spending that money throughout the year).

Correct! That happens progressively though and this is part of that process.

Who voted against almost 2 trillion in spending on a bill that came just before the holidays with 3k pages and mere hours to review? Yeah I'd like to see who too and I don't give a shit about their affiliation. You gotta be a fed.

So you think helping a country beat the shit out of Russia has zero benefit to the US?

... you mean everyone will be saddled with home debt for literal decades that they have no chance of paying back, then the government will purchase the loans so that it's impossible for them to file for bankruptcy, thus forcing them into permanent debt slavery to the government to keep things that previously could've been discharged?

How exactly would that be welcome news?

he obviously /s

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Thanks. I appreciate it.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

How fucking dumb is it that we give it to natives but not to ourselves

I don't think they understand how bad medical care is in the civilian sector. Waiting months to see a specialist, paying thousands for minor procedures in addition to thousands per month in premiums and many doctors not even accepting new patients. We had to drive 5 hours before to find an in network specialist. The nurses and doctors were indeed burned out as it's like a warzone in civilian hospitals too while military and VA facilities had so many employees that many could just sit and hang out most being civil service and Public employees or contractors. They want everyone to think they are so abused, but if that's true then just look at the care everyday civilians deal with on a daily basis.

I wouldn’t.

Thinking native Americans deserve anything special is stupid.

All true. Sad that politicians use lies to secure their jobs.

Maybe it depends on the state. Working in healthcare in red and blue states is very different. Blue states are much better.

Now that I've read it again with that view, yeah.

You don't think the federal government should honor treaties they signed?

I don’t think Native Americans should be given anything any other citizen isn’t offered.

If you’re bringing up old agreements/promises made between groups generations ago as the argument for why things should be done that opens you up to a whirlwind of pain for people who know how to actually debate.

ANCSA was signed into law in 1971.

You can't even wait for those who were alive for it to die out?

Full faith and credit indeed.

Both were in blue states, MI and PA.

Nobody knows about ANCSA like it’s common knowledge - but nice job googling and casually referencing it - and it’s signed in date - as if it is.

The point however is that Indian tribe descendants shouldn’t get special treatment as special class US citizens because they arent special.

I'm Tlingit, and I know about it because it directly affects my family.

Specifically them being shitty about the allotments, which is really on brand for US/Indian relations.

So what?

Do you not see that most people in the United States come from nothing, into an underprivileged or disadvantaged position, which is politically and socioeconomically rigged against them - that most people’s families are affected adversely by the wealthy classes influence of the proletariat?

What makes you worse than any other bourgeoisie elitist to think you deserve special treatment for no other reason than your bloodline?

Yeah, I'm not going to get into that sort of thing with someone who's coming off of a glib twat on reddit.

If you are genuinely curious about the answer to your question, research how much it sucks to be an Indian in the US. Once you've learned about the socioeconomic factors at play, learn about generational trauma.

Bonus points if you can figure out why there are less than 500 speakers of my native tongue left, and when that behavior stopped.

Check out the last 50 years of politics in the US, you tearing down someone else isn't going to cause them to suddenly build you up.

If you want universal healthcare, vote or move to Washington state, or nearly any other country that's "western"

Uh huh - so your argument is:

“My plight is worse than yours though”..

You are either a US citizen and believe we should strive to all to be treated under an equal set of rules or you’re an asshole, imo.

Trump won the first time in both of those states. Biden only won narrowly in 2020.

>Lol Americans started assimilating first

TIL that the Spanish Empire didn't exist and didn't genocide central american native people

>Didn't Mexicans obliterate millions of natives by disease and war and then forcefully assimilate the rest to the point that the native identity no longer exists?

Ehhh, I'd really say that that was the doing of the Spanish - not quite Mexican people.

Trump's 2016 win in Michigan was the first time Michiganders went Republican for POTUS in nearly a quarter-century. Pennsylvania's registered voters are 49% Democrat to 37% Republican.