I'm no economist but doesn't the city need money? There has to be a reason why they don't set up at literally ANY traffic light and catch people for speeding through red lights. It happens every cycle in all directions. What makes this not worth doing? Motorists are getting more and more brazen with their disregard for laws because they are not being enforced, and at the same time the towns need more funding. What gives?
Edit: why can't they hire more traffic cops?
Yes, my motivation is to understand how I should feel about it. I have a Jeep, should curbs be optional? What sort of advice should I be giving my children when I say things like "Yellow means slow down" when there is ample example of that being untrue?
Bad Take, who want's more traffic tickets?
possibly the families of the state-record-breaking 66 pedestrians & bicyclists killed by cars this year
As someone who lives near an intersection, I’d like to see more “written warning - inspection required” - for vehicles with those aftermarket exhaust systems that sound like kazoos, and perhaps some reckless operation tickets for accelerating wildly. Considering that NHPD can barely stop organized street racing, I don’t think traffic enforcement is a priority for them.
I could go for more tickets for things like red lights and double parking and such. What I don't care about is the speeding tickets everyone is always more obsessed with. To me it's more about how someone's driving than how fast someone's driving, but this are harder tickets to issue so get ignored.
That's exactly the point. If running a light costs you $150 every time you get caught, you'd probably think of yellow lights differently. And if slamming on your breaks causes the person following too closely to hit you and they get ticked for wreckless driving, they'd think differently next time too.
Excuse the cynicism, but nothing gets done until people are dead and families sue :/
Apparently a bunch of years back they shot down red light cameras as they were trying to revitalize downtown and didn’t want to discourage people from outside new haven from coming to the city on account of tickets.
Well that's at least a reason. Thank you for your comment.
the way people drive is less a human behavior problem than a road infrastructure problem, which is why you can't ticket your way out of it
you've got cars in the middle of a city with people walking which is just fucking stupid. we might as well put roads through the middle of costco
lots of countries don't even use 4 way intersections, because they're dumb
Good thing they did. OP seems to think police exist to generate state income. Fines are a tool to discourage illegal behavior, not a source of income for a municipality.
See below for an interesting read: https://ww2.motorists.org/press/revenue-drives-red-light-cameras-not-safety/
I’m not sure how true it is, I’m just a bartender who hears a lot of hearsay from city and state employees when they’re out drinking.
Infrastructure doesn't make people run red lights. Frustration with infrastructure maybe, but how someone responds to stimuli is the definition of human behavior. Inserting discomfort to make unwanted behaviors less efficient is exactly how you change behavior. I'm all for roundabouts though or teleportation.
I'm sure I'll get tons of down votes but here goes:
Parking tickets [non-moving violations] and property taxes are the primary sources of income for New Haven.
The revenue from moving violations like:
all goes to the state of CT -and this would certainly include red-light cameras.
That is why you pay speeding tickets here:
https://www.jud2.ct.gov/CIBEpay/EnterTicket
Versus paying for parking ticket here:
https://www.tocite.net/newhavenct/portal#
NHPD doesn't care about moving violations because there's no monetary gain for NH. That and the 'quiet quitting' of police forces across the nation that may be attributed to [among other things] COVID and George Floyd.
I generally agree that in New Haven and throughout the entire state the number of cops patrolling and enforcing traffic laws had decreased (seemingly A LOT).
I doubt this is a big contributor but for what it’s worth: cops cannot pursue vehicles on chases, so for the more nefarious individuals running lights and committing other crimes, they just have to drive away to avoid the police…
This should get awards, not downvotes. That makes sense. Doesn't make sense for state troopers to be traffic cops. Damn that's broken.
They were getting downvotes because of the completely baseless yet obnoxiously pervasive narrative that BLM somehow neutered cops
I would add that in today's age where every confrontation (with police, neighbors, flight attendants, etc) is recorded and ends up on the internet. Unless the person is completely reckless and putting others in immediate danger, they're not going to bother with minor offenses. It's so easy to do a reverse image search and pull information on everyone which directly puts families in danger.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in accountability for ones actions, but I can definitely see how things can escalate from a basic traffic stop.
Ah, well i certainly meant the awards should go for the information about where the money goes for all the things I'm seeing getting worse and worse.
They shot it down because suburban legislators said no so they can keep speeding through our city streets
They used to give out a lot more tickets though, like, 10,000 more. The number of tickets issued peaked around 2009 after a bunch of pedestrians were killed and people complained. Then people stopped complaining and the police stopped enforcing traffic laws I guess.
This is just the fatalities as well, the number of injured is magnitudes more
Because “defund the police”
>Frustration with infrastructure maybe
yep it's baked in. driving in cities sucks, especially new haven with the freeway exits leading to pedestrian lanes or carriageways from 1650
Red light cameras are illegal by state law. Revenue from traffic tickets goes to the state, not municipalities.
it didn't "neuter" them, it straight up turned a broad swathe of these grown-ass professional adults into sulky little "we'll show YOU" type diaper babies who deliberately withhold some degree of effort on the job because nobody appweciates them.
I have gotten parking tickets while there was still time on the meter more than once
lol except the police haven't been fucking defunded, so
The CT ACLU was also strongly opposed. There was also concern about the shadiness of the private companies selling and installing the cameras, particularly what agencies they’d release the footage to, like ICE. New Haven got city IDs in the late 2010s, so immigrants could have basic ID so they could get a bank account and not be a target for mugging. ICE retaliated by targeting New Haven for immigration roundups. So the question of public surveillance was (and still is) a big concern.
Eta: ACLU was concerned about due diligence, fairness, and privacy. I’m not sure if their stance had changed.
https://www.acluct.org/en/press-releases/traffic-light-cameras-still-a-bad-idea
Enforcing any kind of motor vehicle infractions effectively would require an incredible number of uniformed officers, if enforcement is to remain in the hands of officers. It is simply impossible to place officers at every intersection, or even every major problem intersection, and then so, the entire police force would be on traffic duty and not attending to more pressing matters.
This is why, revenue completely aside, traffic enforcement needs to be automated to the fullest extent possible both internally (speed governors inside cars, technology to prevent distracted driving, etc) and externally (red light & speeding cameras), and then if any human interaction is needed, it's done by department of transportation or DMV reps, not armed officers.
It has been known in CT for a while that camera enforcement is "illegal" per state statute, however, at a recent meeting of the CT Vision Zero Council (which I am a member of), it was brought up by the state that technically, camera enforcement isn't explicity prohibited, nor is it explicit that motor vehicle enforcement has to be done by an in-person officer. There is also prima facie presumption of accuracy for other speed-monitoring devices police use such as radar guns, and that presumption can be extended to "any other speed monitoring device approved by the Commissioner of Emergency Services and Pubic Protection." But the state would likely still pursue some legislative changes if it moves forward to prevent any challenges.
Hm who's more likely to have caused a pedestrian's death, the pedestrian or the person operating the massive machine that killed them
You literally just described "traffic calming" infrastructure design.
which for what it's worth, new haven is doing with it's new intersection and road improvements throughout the city.
I hope your family never get's killed by a car, so you remain blissfully ignorant the rest of your days <3
I actually asked this a couple years ago to two police officers who were walking by a red light outside my residence that gets run all the time. Their response was that they mostly only respond to severe situations and have backed off a lot in the wake of George Floyd. Makes no sense to me. I agree, even if it's not income, enforcement makes it a much less dangerous place. Such a dumb over reaction.
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Have you ever spoken with a cop in New Haven? You should do a ride along, I’m betting it would be an eye opening experience.
oh, assuredly. it's been such an incredibly fascinating experience for so many other people, why would i be any different?
nice edit, dipshit.
for those reading at home, the original thing this winner felt compelled to contribute was to tell me that the drivers were in no way at fault & to "get back in the bike lane, hippie".
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I feel that there should be NO financial incentive to ticket moving or standing violations. They should ticket the living crap out of moving violations because they threaten the lives of the citizens of the city. They don't get $100 for every mugger they take off the street. The system is ridiculous.
Because it seems like your experience is filtered through other people. You should try out a shift for yourself. 🤷♀️ Just a thought.
Are you offering a ride along during one of your shifts?
Be the change you'd like to see, brother!
You’re sick, typical Bob voter, go preach hate elsewhere.
I’m always available for a ride along! My suggestion is to pick a fri or sat evening though.
Have you ever called a New Haven cop for assistance? They are horrific to deal with.
I don’t know the answer but I wonder if traffic stops are too dangerous or if they too often result in more work by revealing other crimes occurring. You stop someone for blowing a light and all of a sudden there’s weapons or drugs involved which change the tone of the whole stop/shift.
I am a New Haven cop, so I’m pretty familiar. That sucks that’s been your experience, but in my science there’s different degrees and causes of “horrible.” Some of those are the fault of the officer, some are more bureaucratic, state law, etc.
in fact my "experience is filtered" through my own personal experiences with cops, my own loved ones' direct experiences with cops, & state/national statistics, but go off.
Treating all cops in every state as if were the same seems pretty silly. I’m guessing if someone said that they didn’t like doctors or lawyers because some of them are terrible, you’d think that person needed some perspective.
What I find most interesting is that the police are constantly accused of having a closed culture. But I’m here suggesting that you come get to know us and your response is that I “go off” because you’ve had bad experiences in the past, as if those are the only possible experiences you could have. Are you afraid of having your mind changed?
>Are you afraid of having your mind changed?
https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/CT-state-police-accused-of-wrongdoing-17220971.php
https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/Lawmakers-call-state-police-misconduct-a-17242943.php
https://www.ctpost.com/projects/2021/police-misconduct
lmao, nope! in fact what i'm afraid of is cops. it's a pretty normal way to feel about a professional class that has the power to completely alter or even end my life with limited, if, any, consequence - & who routinely, documentedly abuse that power. maybe you should be concerning yourself with the behavior & actions of the folks who inhabit your profession rather than coming at civilians grousing about rightfully earned negative public perception. your real problems are in-house.
I’m certainly not “coming at” you, I’m simply pointing to my invitation to having you learn a bit more about a profession you don’t seem to have much personal experience with, or at least alter your perspective if not change it entirely. I’d call that welcoming rather than adversarial. For a profession accused of being close minded, it seems you’re the one with an entrenched position.
And yes, of course there will be cases of misconduct, we’re human beings and we’re going to make mistakes, it’s inevitable. I’d be concerned if data showed that there was no misconduct because that would mean the data was wrong. Taking a tiny subset and using it to impugn the entire profession is statistically incorrect however; compare police related misconduct to the aggregate of police interactions and you’ll see it’s a tiny fraction. By way of example, medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in America: how many doctors/nurses do you know of who have been fired?
oh okay. systemic problems that are severe and rampant enough to be reported routinely upon and that weigh heavily on public perception of this entire profession across the entire united states are, like, good actually. my bad.
i think you'll find that doctors pay out the ass for things like malpractice insurance. who pays out the ass when a cop fucks up? let me know. like, sure, yes, thank you, it is an unquestioned fact that cops are "human beings and we’re going to make mistakes", that's certainly not something most people particularly question. the issue lies in the level of personal accountability and consequence a police officer typically faces & the extreme ways in which that differs from consequences incurred under anything resembling similar circumstances by anyone inhabiting virtually any other profession despite the outsize level of power involved. i don't think you're at all making the point you hope to make by drawing a close comparison between health care and law enforcement.
(and for the record: https://news.yale.edu/2020/01/28/estimates-preventable-hospital-deaths-are-too-high-new-study-shows ["you're filtering all this through your own experience!" "how many doctors/nurses do you know of who have been fired?" i... know of a fucking ton, actually? maybe make up your mind about your stance on anecdotal evidence within this conversation.])
anyway, ultimately: hard pass to a free ride in your cop car, lmao. nice try.
Actually, I retract my invitation, I deal with enough mental illness to see you don’t seem particularly stable.
yes, this kind of kneejerk assessment of an individual giving you quantifiable pushback on unsubstantiated assertions certainly tracks.
I hope you get the help you need.
hey, thanks for dragging this down fully into the Personal Insult Zone so you can feel like you don't actually have to address anything i said to you in any substantiative way, but let's end with this: the onus is not on the civilian to solve your job's massive and catastrophic public relations crisis. i'm a middle class, white, professional adult and in theory my demographic is among the force's least adversarial. people like me are among the least at mercy of that power structure. no one should have to take a little spin in your cruiser to have basic faith in the police as a basically positive force. until non-offenders on the police force are willing to grapple with the institution's serious problems in good faith, the problem will continue to fester. later skater!
Please see my previous comment.
I appreciate you identifying yourself. I’ve lived & worked in and near New Haven most of my life. I wish things were different but I have never found NHPD to be helpful, at best neglectful and the worst was having to report a crime and then getting literally screamed at by the responding officer that I was lying. It was terrifying.
You are right, there are a lot of factors at play in my experiences and within the policing environment in New Haven. But I can’t really imagine a scenario where I would call the NHPD and not worry that it was going to blow up in my face.
I wish it were better for all our sakes.
Yeah, that sounds like a shitty experience, I’m not going to pretend otherwise. Without knowing the details, I can only speak in generalities: we get lied to on an if not daily basis then certainly with regularity and it can be very frustrating. What’s also tough to convey to people is how much we’re exposed to and how much that can wear on a person. It’s not uncommon for us to handle a critical incident such as a shooting, clear the call, and immediately get dispatched to whatever is holding. Imagine stepping in brain matter, trying to secure a scene with a crowd of upset people and comfort grieving family members, then getting dispatched to someone’s parking complaint…and for that person it’s super important because “that cAr AlwayS PaRks liKe tHat!!!” (that’s my best approximation of an irate neighbor.) I’m not excusing what happened to you because I’d like to think we should be able to control ourselves better. However, it feel like society expects us to be some combination of navy seals and social workers but only want to pay for the national guard (no offense to my guard members!)
I’m not going to get in my details because I don’t know you, but your point about one call bleeding into another is valid and I think points to the whole reasoning behind the defund the police movement. The only thing I will share is that I was a victim of a crime on a Sunday night, I realized it and reported it Monday morning and didn’t get to talk to the officer till he came back to work on Wednesday when he completely flipped out on me.
To your point, police should not be in the roles of navy seals, social workers and national guard. We should put some mental health workers on the streets to take the load off the cops. Cops try to (or are expected to) do too much and it seems like many of them don’t know how to de-escalate a situation or even their own moods. A frazzled officer puts everyone at risk.
Red light and stop sign tickets are $300 last I recall. Sounds like we need traffic violation fund dispersement reform in our state so that the cities/towns get the money where the infraction is committed and then maybe cops will care when they watch people run lights every day.
I missed this class in highschool. How does one go about seeing that through? Seems like basic aspect of society to enforce safety laws.
You could just tax Yale?
SteveAndyW t1_iz09kgh wrote
My guess is that they have bigger fish to fry than running red lights. I’m not condoning the brazen disregard for traffic laws, but the priority of policing should absolutely not be doling out tickets as a source of revenue for the city.