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asdaaaaaaaa t1_j1ecse0 wrote

Picked a few choice paragraphs for info, this isn't the entire article.

>More than 40% of street drug samples tested in Rhode Island contained the animal tranquilizer xylazine, according to a new analysis out of Brown University. It’s the latest sign that the drug, which causes sedation and can lead to skin infections and overdoses, is continuing to spread through the illicit drug supply in the United States.

>Xylazine, often referred to as "tranq," concerns public health experts because it causes such heavy sedation, which can leave people exposed and vulnerable for long stretches of time. It’s not an opioid, so Naloxone — which can help treat opioid overdoses — doesn’t work to reverse its effects. Xylazine has become increasingly involved in overdose deaths in the U.S.

>The drug was common recreationally in Puerto Rico and then started showing up in Philadelphia in the early 2010s, Shover said. For the last decade, it’s been mostly confined to Philadelphia, she noted. Over the past few years, it started appearing in other places — like in Massachusetts and New York City.

Anyone know more about this drug? Curious as to what the draw is considering it's not an opioid, is it something more like Ketamine? I'd have to guess a cheap, accessible drug like that could certainly do some damage, although not sure how many people would go with that over something like heroin/fent.

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Littlebotweak t1_j1eewkm wrote

When ketamine was being used recreationally in the 90s, kids would tell one another that it caused brain bubbles and all kinds of myths.

It turned out it was useful for depression and may assist in helping with myelination of damaged neurons. Not only that, but compared to other anesthesia, it's less taxing on the system - it doesn't cause the respiratory changes other anesthetics can or tachycardia, that sort of thing. It's a pretty remarkable thing.

So, assumptions are a difficult thing to really make. I think the brain bubbles myth was such an assumption. I'm not saying this stuff could be good, I'm just saying assumptions and drugs don't always line up.

Ketamine was also used specifically for recreation, not as a cutting agent.

Xylazine appears to be used specifically as a cutting agent in opiates, so it's probably just a cheap as shit sedative, no one is seeking it out on its own. In animals it's used with ketamine, so it probably adds something ketamine doesn't cover - muscle movement, etc. They're likely not at all comparable.

Xylazine is a Phenothiazine while Ketamine is classified as a general anesthetic.

I am not a doctor, I just like drug topics.

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TheSaxonPlan t1_j1eh1v8 wrote

We use a ketamine/xylazine mix for long-acting anesthesia during mouse brain surgeries in the brain cancer research lab I work in.

>"Ketamine ia a noncompetitive, centrally acting, dissociative general anesthetic that provides amnesia, analgesia, and immobility. Ketamine typically is used as an adjunct anesthetic, due to its limited ability to provide adequate skeletal muscle relaxation. When combined with xylazine, the combination is regarded as the agent of choice for rodent injectable anesthesia. The popularity of ketamine–xylazine (KX) is mainly due to its supplemental effects (that is, analgesic properties, muscle relaxation, and sedation)."

>"Xylazine (Rompun, Bayer) produces moderate sedation and minimal analgesia in rabbits. It is seldom used as a sole agent but is given in combination with ketamine. The combination causes cardiovascular and respiratory depression, and cardiac arrhythmias are produced at high doses. Xylazine and ketamine have been associated with a high mortality rate (Flecknell et al., 1983)."

Ketamine info source

Xylazine info source

I can attest to the lethality of ketamine/xylazine. We try to titer our doses to be the minimum necessary to keep mice asleep and immobile, but not all mice respond the same, and they develop resistance to ketamine the longer it is used. We sometimes have to "bump" their doses and even small amounts can lead to respiratory and/cardiac failure. Our senior tech has successfully resuscitated several mice by doing mini chest compressions and restored breathing. I've saved two this way. But we still lose between 1-5% of mice due to overdose in our experiments.

I am a doctor, but the Ph.D. kind, not the M.D. kind lol

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tehmlem t1_j1eie6x wrote

I think technically at this point you're a veterinarian

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Littlebotweak t1_j1elf9s wrote

Thanks, doc!

Yea, ketamine has a super quick tolerance build (recreational experience). I guess the dose schedule for testing is such that you can't give them a day or two in between? That might could help, but I get it if it doesn't fit with the experiment design for [reasons].

Is the xylanine for immobility? I imagine ketamine isn't an overall iwin button for sedation, considering the k-holes I've seen some poor saps go down where they're still standing and even dancing. But, hey, their respiratory rates are fine, after all. XD

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TheSaxonPlan t1_j1epi76 wrote

I've never had to dose two days in a row as our surgeries are 4-5 days apart and we use short-acting (and very stinky) isoflurane gas for quick post-op procedures like fixing their sutures/staples or administering fluids. But even with that length of time, we often have to increase the dose by 10-20% to achieve sufficiently deep anesthesia.

Yeah, the xylazine is for muscle relaxation and a little bit for the pain-killing effect. Since we are literally drilling through the skull and putting a needle into their brain, we don't want any twitches or wiggles! Don't know much about ketamine in people, though I am intrigued by its use as an anti-depressant!

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TelluricThread0 t1_j1f50gp wrote

Ketamine is showing a lot of promise for treating depression. The effects are relatively short term though. Patients need another infusion every couple months or so.

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gruntsifyouwill t1_j1fsir4 wrote

Considering that the vast majority of medications for depression are taken daily, I'd say ketamine actually has remarkably long lasting effectiveness.

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TelluricThread0 t1_j1fwx9j wrote

It's not when you have better longer lasting options like psilocybin therapy that can see patient symptoms go into remission for a year or even longer. It can treat root causes of mental illnesses leading to better outcomes and you don't have patients being dependent on many ketamine infusions per year. Don't get me wrong it's great they're finally trying different things besides antidepressants but I see psilocybin as much more efficacious comparatively.

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---------_----_---_ t1_j1intx9 wrote

The other issue with ketamine is that it's pretty hard on the kidneys when used frequently. If you're passing blood in your urine, that's not a good sign. Stop the K immediately and don't do more later.

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Drink-my-koolaid t1_j1f1s2n wrote

How does one resuscitate a little mouse? Do you have to use one finger and do compressions very quickly?

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badestzazael t1_j1hhuc8 wrote

Mice are more resistant than humans to the effects of ketamine i.e mice need more mg's per kilogram than humans.

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WyrdHarper t1_j1f4m2l wrote

It’s an alpha 2 agonist under the class of clonidine derivatives, not a phenothiazine. You’re probably thinking of acepromazine.

Xylazine’s a sedative. We use for general sedation on its own (with or without butorphanol), and as a premedication prior to induction of general anesthesia with ketamine to bypass the excitability phase of ketamine in large animals. I usually add on midazolam or diazepam in adult horses with ketamine as well (it also can be excitatory in awake adult horses without sedation).

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kittenfordinner t1_j1fk2il wrote

Last year I spent almost a week partying with a group of miscreants and Ketamine. Great time, for the last night, on a dance floor a woman was rubbing my face with a vibrator abs the sky wasn't as dark as it used to be, so I excused myself, slept until 7am, packed up, and hitchhiked home by 11am, where I took over baby care from my partner and we had a family day at the beach complete with some non alcoholic beers. In short Ketakine gets an A+ rating from me.

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LFKhael t1_j1eense wrote

Nobody wants xylazine.

It gets used to cut other drugs.

The demand is high enough that people will take the risks of getting something with (potentially too much) xylazine in it.

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WyrdHarper t1_j1f40yw wrote

It’s a centrally acting alpha 2 adrenergic agonist sedative (it’s not a tranquilizer; tranquilizers do not affect consciousness) commonly used in large animal veterinary medicine. We’ve had to start keeping ours in safes at the request of state police; I don’t live in any of the states mentioned in the article. It won’t get you high, but it will make you sleepy and has short-acting analgesic effects. Supposedly it potentiates the high of heroin and methamphetamine with how it interacts with them. Because it’s not a controlled substance it’s historically not been as well-secured as opioids (it’s also not uncommon for farriers and horse owners to illegally acquire and use it).

Detomidine or dexmedetomidine are in the same class of drugs. There’s a huge variation in species response to individual alpha 2 agonists. There’s a few anecdotes of veterinarians accidentally injecting themselves with xylazine; they usually end up waking up in the hospital hours or days later. And that’s with a known dose and immediate transport.

Because xylazine is labeled for large animal use the formulations are somewhat concentrated (100mg/mL for horses; usually 20mg/mL for cattle) and the dose for a horse is small (~1.5-2mL).

There are reversal agents for alpha 2 agonists (atipamezole and yohimbine), but not for humans. Atipamezole is only labeled for veterinary use (although it has been evaluated in humans). Veterinary yohimbine has been on backorder for years.

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mcs_987654321 t1_j1fza61 wrote

Fascinating, thanks for laying that all out!

Also, definitely hadn’t heard of yohimbine before, so that’s something new learned today.

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omgmypony t1_j1ggf4p wrote

you can reverse xylazine with the dexdomator reversal in a pinch, I’ve seen it done in the absence of yohimbine

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thefugue t1_j1enk0p wrote

Ketamine is a disassociative, so probably not.

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mdonaberger t1_j1euv8z wrote

Opiates are potentated by any other depressant. Xylazine is cheap as hell, and easy to obtain because it's a legitimate farm medicine. It also is guaranteed to cause ODs for some folks, which is an actual marketing tactic, as dark as that is.

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M_G t1_j1f9c47 wrote

Xylazine is primarily an alpha 2 adrenergic agonist. Ketamine is primarily an NMDA antagonist. The two have very different pharmacological profiles.

Ketamine is specifically used in pediatric anesthesia because it does not cause respiratory depression. Xylazine and other a2 agonists can cause breathing to slow and hypotension.

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badestzazael t1_j1hhoa8 wrote

Xylazine and ketamine are used in combination as a euthanasia drug in animals.

Don't fuck with these drugs the recreational dose and fatal dose are very close to one another

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---------_----_---_ t1_j1ion4w wrote

When researching drugs, always check that ratio. Run a mile from anything where the ratio is small.

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Main-Situation1600 t1_j1lbjsf wrote

Nobody is euthanizing animals with xylazine and ketamine.

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badestzazael t1_j1ld1l7 wrote

In mice, injection of 100 µL of a 10:1 (mg:mg) solution of ketamine:xylazine resulted in death within 3 to 5 sec- onds after completion of the injection.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/2020-02/Guidelines-on-Euthanasia-2020.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiojafZrZT8AhU1xTgGHSHQA3EQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25pwSmuXvkUFO7vGd7KeH5

Sometimes barbituates aren't available.

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Main-Situation1600 t1_j1mzig3 wrote

I don't need you linking the avma guidelines on euthanasia. I'm very familiar with it.

You can find dozens of creative ways to euthanize animals according to the guidelines. The reality is 99.99 percent of animals euthanized by vets are given blue or pink juice.

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badestzazael t1_j1nmcjb wrote

That's weird because the colour of the liquid used to euthanize each one of my 3 dogs was a dark green colour.

https://vetmd.com.au/services/pet-care/euthanasia#:~:text=The%20second%20drug%20we%20administer,heart%20will%20stop%2C%20almost%20immediately.

Just because you don't think it is doesn't make it so.

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Main-Situation1600 t1_j1qcncw wrote

Given how you're linking ".au" sites I assume you aren't in North America.

So let me specify. 99.99 percent of pets in North America are euthanized with blue or pink juice.

Source: Decades of showing up to work doing just that.

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badestzazael t1_j1r80oe wrote

So it is different colours in different parts of the world and maybe different parts of the world dont have access to phenobarbitone for euthanasia.

Now back to the original article don't fuck with xylazine orr ketamine the recreational dose and the fatal dose are very close together and are dependant on body weight.

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mtarascio t1_j1eea9c wrote

Ketamine is really safe and this doesn't sound safe.

But you never know with drugs because of the boy who cried wolf aspect.

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Eleutherian8 t1_j1ej4ij wrote

Ketamine definitely has its place in our pharmacopoeia when used correctly, but…I’ve lost two dear old friends in the last couple of years to ketamine. They were males in their early 40s who had managed to avoid hard drugs their entire lives, but both began to self-administer ketamine “therapeutically”. Needless to say, it spun out of control, destroyed their bodies, both made horrible decisions while under the influence and met their ends as a direct result. Tread lightly folks.

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pegothejerk t1_j1f0qhi wrote

My sympathies go to you for your loss, especially as a former drug user who also lost friends. Thanks for being willing to share your experience.

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Eleutherian8 t1_j1f51mh wrote

I had to comment, as one of them was lost just this past week.

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TheSaxonPlan t1_j1efku0 wrote

We use a ketamine/xylazine mix for long-acting anesthesia during mouse brain surgeries in the brain cancer research lab I work in. Ketamine is a controlled substance and requires monthly audits and lockboxes and all sorts of protections. Xylazine currently doesn't, but I have a feeling that will change soon...

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barelylegal_69 t1_j1eijbz wrote

highly recommend the “fenty fainties” episode of true anon podcast. they go into tranq dope quite a bit.

also look at benzo dope. sort of similar dynamic. horrible stuff. we really are driving drug use down to the worst possible point. harm maximization.

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Mental_Attitude_2952 t1_j1eqtzw wrote

Yeah, this has been a popular cutting agent here in philly for awhile now. It's really popular in the fake xanax pills that are everywhere right now here in town. I'm not even sure you can get legit xanax on the street anymore. It's all pressed pills with tranq and fent and a tiny bit of xanax. I know people who went to rehab for xanax and were told all the other things they had in their systems and they had no idea till they were told. Thankfully I think some people have stopped taking things just out of fear.

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hustlersambition9 t1_j1hn6mq wrote

Just legalize all drugs. The war on drugs is an utter failure.

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laureire t1_j1i3fx4 wrote

It’s a public health issue. People are going to use drugs. Let’s do it responsibly.

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sclbmared t1_j1g323y wrote

The article doesn't mention that competitive alpha adrenergic antagonists can reverse the effects of xylazine. Yohimbine, tolazoline, atipamezole.

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Bryanb337 t1_j1eubdr wrote

Gee if only we stopped useless prohibition that doesn't work and regulated this stuff, but that would make too much sense.

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kittenfordinner t1_j1fk4qv wrote

America needs legal drug testing for real

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Silly-Barracuda-2729 t1_j1g2t16 wrote

Ketamine is an animal tranquilizer that people have been using for a long time, how is this new news, who cares that it’s a different one

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sir-pauly t1_j1gxknz wrote

Xylazine depresses breathing, ketamine doesnt. when mixed in with opioids which also depress breathing its killin more folks. And people who are trying to treat overdoses find narcan not working, delays life saving treatment

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[deleted] t1_j1gkzk8 wrote

[deleted]

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laureire t1_j1i3a02 wrote

Saw 2 when I was in Raleigh for a week. Shocking to see a distinguished looking older man walking ahead of me in the grocery store stop and freeze. The other was in traffic.

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lycanter t1_j1lz4q2 wrote

"We're not breaking into the zoo to steal tiger tranquilizers" --Cyril

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padizzledonk t1_j1einko wrote

Isn't that what Ketamine is?

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sir-pauly t1_j1gxwyw wrote

Xylazine depresses breathing, ketamine doesnt. They're effects are pretty distinct. mixed in with opioids which also depress breathing its killin more folks. And people who are trying to treat overdoses find narcan not working, delays life saving treatment.

I've heard that xylazine is cut in to extend the percieved effects of the opioids since it's longer lasting.

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