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weedandboobs t1_jajt4nx wrote

Could write another article with the same data about gentrification destroying neighborhoods and black flight.

Fun with numbers!

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FarmSuch5021 t1_jajtb9q wrote

NYC is the most state. Communities from all over the world.

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Clavister t1_jak2z1x wrote

In 1987, I was a junior at Newtown High School in Elmhurst, Queens. Mayor Krotch came to our school to give us a plaque for being the most ethnically diverse school in Queens, which had to have meant that we were the most ethnically diverse school in the whole goddamn country. To his credit, he was willing to answer some questions from our student journalist body. One student asked why our school was so crowded, and he responded like a politician would, saying "Well, everybody wants to go to Newtown, don't you want to go to Newtown"? We booed him for giving a bullshit politician answer. I feel it is part of my proud heritage as a New Yorker that I got to personally boo the mayor when I wasn't even old enough to vote for him yet.

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HEIMDVLLR t1_jak62ip wrote

> Long-standing inner-city majority Black, Asian and Latino neighborhoods are becoming whiter, as the reverse occurred in traditionally white “semi-suburban” areas in outer boroughs.

no duh! It’s called gentrification. Now how many of those new neighbors speak to the people in the community? Won’t even make eye contact with you…

> The study, published by the Washington Post, found that for every 91 white friends a white American has, they have only one black friend, one Asian friend, one Latino friend, one mixed-race friend, and three friends of unknown race. Comparatively, the average black American has 8 white friends for every 83 black friends. - 75% of White People Can’t Even Use the ‘I’m Not Racist, I Have a Black Friend’ Defense

−21

Everyoneeatshere t1_jakc8n1 wrote

Real life experience says otherwise. NYC is very much segregated esp for those who grew up here. Perhaps for ppl who move here in adulthood it’s a different experience

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siposiposipo t1_jakci2i wrote

Replying to HEIMDVLLR (#2,141,434)

Damn who has 91 friends? 😢

I worked many years with White transplants in Bushwick and Bed Stuy. The type that are all about getting into social heaven, being perceived as accepting. They never had an answer when asked about gentrification. Just the most entitled people.

−17

clorox2 t1_jakhlm8 wrote

Washington Heights resident checking in. We’ve got it all. White, black, Dominicans, Russians, Jews, even a few Asians. I like it up here.

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paulwhitedotnyc t1_jaki6qy wrote

Replying to siposiposipo (#2,141,682)

How dare they move to a neighborhood they can afford and attempt to be polite and accepting of their new neighbors, especially with the color skin they have.

New York is so easy to afford, they could live anywhere they want, and then to not even be able to explain the actions of the millions of other people that look like them?! Disgusting!

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LongIsland1995 t1_jakkfeg wrote

Replying to siposiposipo (#2,141,682)

I know a Puerto Rican guy from Bushwick who actually prefers the white transplants over the native white New Yorkers from places like Glendale and Maspeth. He said the former are fun to hang out with while the latter he remembers being racist when he was growing up.

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LongIsland1995 t1_jakkpg7 wrote

My mom went to school in Flatbush in the 70s and it was very diverse for a short period of time, but only because the middle of white flight. I figure the reverse is happening now in certain gentrifying neighborhoods.

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LongIsland1995 t1_jakl5y1 wrote

Replying to Everyoneeatshere (#2,141,669)

Yeah but it was always like that.

And to be honest it's more complicated than that. Blacks and Latinos live together all over the Bronx, uptown Manhattan, Bushwick, parts of Queens like Jamaica. Asians and Latinos live in the same neighborhoods in much of Western/Central Queens. Whites and Asians live together in Northeast Queens.

So there are plenty of neighborhoods where at least 2 or 3 racial groups live together, but if you're looking for some sort of Sesame Street situation where a large number of whites, blacks, Latinos, and Asians all live together and interact, you won't find it.

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switch8000 t1_jakly5s wrote

Is this study the one that we voted on from our tax dollars funded last year? ugh

−4

AmadeusZull t1_jal1dos wrote

Replying to Clavister (#2,141,318)

Newtown class of 2000 reporting in. It was so crowded we had freshmen year of highschool in some building on horrace and 108th st that had no windows. I think that building is some vocational or magnet school now if you pass it on the LIE. That freshmen year sucked.

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oldquas t1_jal6wg9 wrote

Born here and still in Brooklyn and even in its diversity It’s segregated to me. It’s so weird to walk the streets of Flatbush and not feel what I felt as a kid.

I mean as we grow things change, our perspectives change as well, but I really do miss the sense of diversity when it meant bartering recipes, taking in culture and looking out for your fellow foreigner who came here with the intent for more.

It’s one thing to be diverse and just that, but to be immersed in diversity is the difference.

The heart’s been transplanted.

It’s different now, I get it tho.

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TheAJx t1_jal7uwx wrote

Replying to HEIMDVLLR (#2,141,434)

>no duh! It’s called gentrification. Now how many of those new neighbors speak to the people in the community? Won’t even make eye contact with you…

You sound just like the racist neighbors I had that complained about my immigrant parents coming to their neighborhood.

The white population has declined every decade, including this last one. A few neighborhoods have seen some more white people moving in (which, given all the complaints about white flight and our supposed positive approach to desegration, shouldn't be a bad thing) and a bunch of neighborhoods have seen the white population decrease (and people of other races move in). That's normal.

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oldquas t1_jal815e wrote

Replying to oldquas (#2,142,938)

Also random thought: it’s weird when people move here and are scared of black & brown people. That’s like going to the movies and being scared of the seats.

Subpar analogy, but at least if you’re going to check out the movie off a good trailer, at least acknowledge the cast of the movie and the seats that has made it comfortable for you to enjoy the film aka frolic around the city.

I welcome everyone. Just don’t bring that prejudice shit with you fam.

All love.

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rosecoo t1_jald94q wrote

We’re diverse because there’s no real border between ethnic enclaves lmao

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sakura5215 t1_jaln7u1 wrote

I’m proud that my sons high school is the most diverse in the city and almost perfectly matches the demographics of the student population. My neighborhood is not diverse though (UWS). It’s honestly uncomfortable that all the nannies and laborers are minorities and very few of the residents are. Every morning I come downstairs and there is a group of nannies waiting to go up and we only have white and a couple of Asians as residents. My son’s public elementary school was less diverse than my daughter’s private elementary school since they could choose their students. The only diversity in the public school was the children of supers who lived in their workplaces and a couple of adopted kids.

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pyspark2020 t1_jalzw46 wrote

Also becoming dirtier and more dangerous.

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HEIMDVLLR t1_jam50as wrote

Replying to TheAJx (#2,142,974)

So you think it’s okay that transplants move into a neighborhood and consciously not acknowledge their neighbors or even try to get to know anyone from the community?

The complaints about white flight were real. People moved away because they didn’t want to integrate, not because they were being priced out or couldn’t afford to live there anymore.

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cC2Panda t1_jame7r0 wrote

Replying to TheAJx (#2,142,954)

It's a lack of development which we can mostly blame on rich white people. Blaming Hispanic people is like folks blaming Koreans in LA in the 80s and early 90s. Mega wealthy slumlords like Donald Sterling were at the root of it then and they are at the root of the problem now.

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cC2Panda t1_jamfcrz wrote

Replying to Everyoneeatshere (#2,142,036)

Kids migrate towards people they identify with most it happens everywhere. My wife went to a school that taught in English in India but the social groups split mostly on preferred languages from the outset and stayed that way all the way through. Kids that spoke Marathi were a clique, Hindi were a clique, Urdu another, and English it's own. So even within the same religion, castes and family wealth cliques formed and stayed based primarily on childhood language skills.

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Rottimer t1_jamgqbs wrote

Replying to sakura5215 (#2,143,483)

The lack of diversity at public schools in the UWS is by design. There are very overcrowded schools in Harlem, with majority black students that borders the UWS. When DeBlasio’s DoE floated relieving that overcrowded school by redrawing the districts so some of those black students would be zoned for an under capacity UWS school, the very rich parents in the UWS blew a gasket and said some not so very subtle shit about black and Hispanic kids.

The DoE backed off.

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cC2Panda t1_jami0w5 wrote

Replying to Everyoneeatshere (#2,144,412)

At the very least it takes a concerted effort not to fall into segregated cliques. There are social groups that actually do tend to be more diverse but they tend to be considered outsiders. Like when I was younger the mix of teens hanging out at Chinatown Fair playing Capcom vs SNK 2 with each other was way less segregated on race and instead just a group of gamer geeks.

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TheAJx t1_jamoa24 wrote

Replying to Rottimer (#2,144,721)

> Now how many of those new neighbors speak to the people in the community? Won’t even make eye contact with you…

"Now how many of those new neighbors speak to the people in the community? Won’t even make eye contact with you…"

You realize that white suburbanites make the exact same comment when minorities or low income folks move in to their neighborhoods? It's bullshit then, it's bullshit now. This is America, we share this place together.

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TheAJx t1_jamot32 wrote

Replying to cC2Panda (#2,144,360)

Was it white people that killed this housing development in Harlem??

The facts remain. The white population in NY has declined every decade. The hispanic and Asian population has increased. Ergo, if you want to claim someone is driving out black New Yorkers, then you need to actually look at the populations that are growing.

But putting blame on anyone for moving in and out is stupid and backward as fuck.

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shep_pat t1_jamr8jq wrote

No shit. Have these people ever been other places?

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TheAJx t1_jamreqn wrote

Replying to HEIMDVLLR (#2,143,972)

> So you think it’s okay that transplants move into a neighborhood and consciously not acknowledge their neighbors or even try to get to know anyone from the community? >

People should generally try to get to know their neighbors, of course. But that shouldn't be a precursor to getting to live somewhere. People need a place to live. The same comments you make about "transplants" not acknowledging their neighbors is the same one that white suburbanites make when minorities, immigrants or low-income people move into their neighborhoods. It's bullshit.

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survive_los_angeles t1_jamthnz wrote

Replying to TheAJx (#2,144,821)

why does it have to be blame? housing problems can be fixed without always trying to turn it into an ethnic blame game -- that just clouds things and makes things hard to fix.

Things change, people move and migrate as their needs want or dreams dictate or economic realities come into view.

It be alot easier to navigate this without painting it as ethnic struggles - when of course.. its always been just a transitional class undulations in housing.

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Enders_Sack t1_jamwtsx wrote

People don't realize how POC rarely interact with white people before college, if they even get to attend. I grew up here and the only white people I've ever interacted with were my teachers and maybe medical professionals.

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ugen2009 t1_jamzpeu wrote

Replying to oldquas (#2,142,982)

I feel like you think this because you haven't been to an actually segregated city, like Atlanta. Imagine not seeing a black person in an area the size of Manhattan.

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Loxodontox t1_jana4be wrote

Yeah, when I was growing up on Tiemann place next to the elevated 125th st 1 & 9—remember that one?—I was the one white boy around lol, but that was crack era. You wouldn’t even see many Hispanic people over there, no, but now it is quite diverse, though the gentrification above 125th by Columbia has radically changed things in addition

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Rottimer t1_jang7rz wrote

Replying to TheAJx (#2,144,793)

>You realize that white suburbanites make the exact same comment when minorities or low income folks move into their neighborhoods. . .

No they don’t. Instead they repeatedly call the cops on any perceived offense and refuse to speak directly to their neighbors, similar to how some of these “gentrifiers” treat their neighbors of color that may have been in the neighborhood for decades. That’s not everyone, but it’s a significant number. And that’s what OP was complaining about. He never said they weren’t welcome.

But we all know how a lot of redditors get hard at wanting to paint minorities as “the real racists.”

−1

TizonaBlu t1_janjhkp wrote

Replying to weedandboobs (#2,140,935)

I know this is unpopular but gentrification is what brought lower crime rate, stores, and other amenities into neighborhoods that didn’t have them.

People should see West Chelsea before it was gentrified, it was just warehouses and gas stations.

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survive_los_angeles t1_janjlym wrote

Replying to LongIsland1995 (#2,146,200)

thats not what i've seen. Re bronx. Bronx is a big place. it might not just be in the areas you frequent yet

Also Fort Green projects has a influx of Chinese people who qualified for NYCHA moving in - changing the face of that area for the next couple of decades.

Even knocking the church down in FGP / ingersoll houses

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TizonaBlu t1_janjrp7 wrote

Replying to TheAJx (#2,144,821)

I mean, Hispanic are 18% of US population, blacks are 12%. Black people were always over represented in NYC. If anything, it makes sense there are more Hispanics in NY now.

−1

midtownguy70 t1_jank65c wrote

Replying to survive_los_angeles (#2,145,019)

This is the kind of change that we humans can actually guide and control. It is not an asteroid or earthquake. This is top-down gentrification, not bottom up. It is the result of zoning changes and decisions made largely at the level of local and state government. Same way they encouraged white flight in the other direction during the days of redlining.

Not all change is good. If we just throw up our arms at everything and say "change happens" we aren't taking control of our destiny or protecting what we have.

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LongIsland1995 t1_janklez wrote

Replying to TizonaBlu (#2,146,215)

Literally the only bad thing is the increased rents (and the consequences of that)

But landlords are jacking up rents even in places like Fordham Heights (for instance) where there is zero gentrification, so you may as well get some benefit out of it.

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LongIsland1995 t1_janlt3h wrote

Replying to Enders_Sack (#2,145,189)

Yeah, I have asked a lot of black and Hispanic New Yorkers about this. They said they either knew literally zero white people growing up or maybe 1-2 token white kids.

Huge swaths of the city are like this, you can walk for probably miles in Eastern Brooklyn or The Bronx withour seeing a single white family.

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TheAJx t1_janmxhg wrote

Replying to Rottimer (#2,146,096)

> But we all know how a lot of redditors get hard at wanting to paint minorities as “the real racists.”

I'm not painting minorities as the real racists. Most minorities are chill just like most everyone else. I'm saying you're the real racist.

Anyways, you think anybody moving into the neighborhood, white or non-white, would want to interact with busybodies like you, measuring whether they looked at you the right way or if they acknowledged you appropriately enough. Fuck that.

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cC2Panda t1_janotiv wrote

Replying to LongIsland1995 (#2,146,388)

I've advocated it here before but what I'd really like to see is utilitarian housing projects but have it geared towards middle class people instead of filling it up with low income households. One of the biggest failures of housing projects like Pruitt-Igoe in the past is that the maintenance and upkeep are dependent on the people most vulnerable to market fluctuations, so every downturn in the economy sees the buildings fall into disrepair and those with means to get out do and it's a downward spiral.

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tess_philly t1_janssnq wrote

This is what makes NYC the greatest city in the country to me. Consider other cities such as Chicago, which seem to only be getting worse in segregation (which, is shut down in any convo when I bring it up).

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survive_los_angeles t1_janxo7x wrote

Replying to LongIsland1995 (#2,146,292)

damn bro. im not even an expert at the Bronx - I am on the Brooklyn side and have seen all types of people and surprising changes to some neighborhoods.. even as we speak they are renovating the bronx museum for 2025 - the influx of people who want to / need to live in the city are finding bronx an alternative -- and some parts that are still social deserts are having small hip places open up to add a new layer of culture which will bring more people to make entire neighborhoods come back alive

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TizonaBlu t1_jao7ybz wrote

Replying to TheAJx (#2,147,266)

I mean, I didn't say any race should be any percentage. If anything the person I was responding to is talking about racial quota more. I'm simply stating that decreasing in black population doesn't seem out of the normal in terms of national demography.

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cC2Panda t1_jaoiq86 wrote

Replying to LongIsland1995 (#2,146,684)

It gets middle class people into projects most of which were originally built for low income housing. I want tens of thousands of units to be built for the express purpose of middle class rent to ownership.

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WickhamAkimbo t1_jarjrqa wrote

Replying to Clavister (#2,141,318)

> We booed him for giving a bullshit politician answer. I feel it is part of my proud heritage as a New Yorker that I got to personally boo the mayor when I wasn't even old enough to vote for him yet.

This is fantastic.

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Due_Masterpiece_3601 t1_jasrnbz wrote

Replying to LongIsland1995 (#2,153,884)

Was never exposed to those American sports growing up. The TV shows thing I kind of get but it's different interacting with the culture vs seeing it on television. I don't think there's two people that are the same in this thing, depends on how deep in your enclave you are.

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shikitohno t1_jaw2djf wrote

Replying to LongIsland1995 (#2,146,322)

Yeah, this was me when I moved to the Bronx. I was in the same apartment for 11 years, and the only other white people I saw in my neighborhood were police, the odd school teacher commuting and the Mormon kids that got sent to evangelize around Highbridge and Mount Eden instead of at least getting a trip overseas out of their mission.

I would also say this study conflates living in the same neighborhood with actual diversity and integration in the community. Sure, my neighborhood had Dominicans, Mexicans, Africans, Haitians, African Americans, etc. all living in the same buildings, but they largely maintained their own segregation. One thing I think gets overlooked by better off white people who never actually live in these neighborhoods and only speak English is the amount of flagrant racism between minority groups. Hispanic groups vs Black people, Africans versus African Americans, then disputes within those groups as well.

A lot of the Bronx "gentrifying" just seems to me to be the real estate industry trying to manufacture it and raising prices hoping to get some idiots who'll fall for it. When I worked in Mott Haven, there were already buildings going up trying to charge $2500/month for a studio to live 6 blocks away from the train in the hood. There have been some hip businesses that opened up on Alexander and Bruckner, but you have literally a single hipster block where you see white people, then they hop in their cars and disappear.

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LongIsland1995 t1_jawt1ka wrote

Replying to shikitohno (#2,158,594)

Yeah for the white gentry crowd, the Bronx doesn't really offer anything that Brooklyn doesn't. It's no longer cheap.

That could change eventually, but right now I don't think it will gentrify the way Bed Stuy and Bushwick have.

And I agree with you that a lot of white people are oblivious to what race relations are actually like . It's like when boomers act like their neighborhood growing up was like Sesame Street, but fail to mention that this was because of white flight happening at an unthinkable pace.

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shikitohno t1_jawv38z wrote

Replying to LongIsland1995 (#2,159,951)

It isn't cheap, and perhaps more importantly, it doesn't have the social life and other draws that Brooklyn does. Unless hipsters suddenly get into bachata and reggaetón, the Bronx largely lacks the sort of nightlife and businesses that might otherwise attract them in spite of the price.

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LongIsland1995 t1_jaxdqup wrote

Replying to shikitohno (#2,160,057)

Correct. There actually seems to be a lack of regular bar/pubs in most of the Bronx. That could change, but as of now it's nothing like even Bed Stuy in terms of nightlife.

Another thing is that most of the South Bronx was destroyed during the 1970s arson wave, and the buildings were replaced in the 80s and 90s with cheap looking Fedders houses. So it doesn't have that homey feel that Bed Stuy, Bushwick, Harlem, Washington Heights, etc. have. That's also why, in my opinion, Brownsville is of little interest to gentrifiers.

1