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AbazabaYouMyOnlyFren t1_itm5xpa wrote

Why the fuck is no one going to jail?

What's the deterrent here? Make every effort to defraud tax payers and if you're caught you have to give some of the money back???

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Arleare13 t1_itmblzb wrote

It was a plea deal, basically. According to the article and the court papers, they agreed to a deferred prosecution agreement in exchange for admitting wrongdoing, paying back restitution to the government, and paying $8 million in fines. So they didn't give "some" of the money back, they gave back everything that the government intended to prove they stole, plus a fine of over twice that amount. They also agreed to oversight by a federal monitor going forward, which isn't a minor concession.

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QCr8onQ t1_ito583o wrote

I understand what you are saying and I understand why the government agreed to it but… I’d still like to see some jail time. I’d also like to see the mill/school shut down.

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Arleare13 t1_ito5mel wrote

One person did get prison time, and another got five years probation.

But yeah, I think we all agree there needs to be much more effective oversight of these places if they’re to continue to operate.

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PlaneStill6 t1_ito00jl wrote

> paying back restitution

I bet they’re milking Mayor McCop for $8mm in city funding, and they’ll get it.

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[deleted] t1_itmiep2 wrote

[removed]

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Arleare13 t1_itmioi0 wrote

> How are we expected to believe they will pay any restitution.

They have already paid their restitution. It says that in the third paragraph of the article you didn't read.

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66Hanuman99 t1_itndiot wrote

"In all, the school agreed to pay $5 million in fines in addition to the more than $3 million it had already paid in restitution as part of the deal to avoid prosecution."

So, they are just returning 8 million in stolen taxpayer money! and being given a slap on the wrist (again). Yeah there have been many other cases of this from these talmudic schools in the past.

well, this all makes complete sense to me... Merika ~

1

JerryFartcia t1_itnhyhu wrote

Literally the same thing would happen to you if you lie on your taxes.

You pay it back with penalties.

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elizabeth-cooper t1_itmkd6s wrote

> They are fully funded by the government

They are not. You can see below where I wrote what they get funding for. The major expenses of a school are salaries and the school building itself.

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nonlawyer t1_itme8sj wrote

> Why the fuck is no one going to jail?

> The federal investigation into the school’s use of government funding stemmed from a more narrow criminal case in which two former school leaders, Elozer Porges and Joel Lowy, pleaded guilty in March 2018 for their roles in the conspiracy to defraud the government.

r/nyc commenter Read the Article Before Getting Outraged Challenge [Impossible]

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PvtHudson t1_itmsdmm wrote

To be fair, the article is behind a paywall.

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zephyrtr t1_itn0ia2 wrote

We didn't value knowledge, and so we knew nothing.

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AbazabaYouMyOnlyFren t1_itmu886 wrote

r/nyc commenter Read the Article Before Getting Outraged by other comments. [Impossible]

Username checks out.

Otherwise you would have recognized that nothing is mentioned about anyone going to jail. Nor was there any speculation as to what potential jail time they would be looking at.

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Arleare13 t1_itmunmr wrote

It's not difficult to find that information, though. One of them was sentenced to two years in prison, the other got five years probation.

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AbazabaYouMyOnlyFren t1_itn6l9a wrote

It wasn't in the article, so sue me.

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Arleare13 t1_itn9dc0 wrote

That sounds like a bit much. Politely correcting you seems sufficient.

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AbazabaYouMyOnlyFren t1_itnarqw wrote

Correcting what? That prison sentences were not published in the article?

I'm not a mind reader, it's pretty simple. Just move on with your life.

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TK1129 t1_itn0blb wrote

It’s more organized crime than religion. The Feds should start dropping RICO charges on them

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senseofphysics t1_itoxj5n wrote

RICO is what decimated the Italian mob in New York. If they do that to the Hasidic community it’ll do the same, but I wonder if they’ll even try to.

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hwnn1 t1_itovyga wrote

It’s white collar crime. People never go to jail unless they fuck someone over more powerful than them or someone from opposing party is the AG.

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Jordie1010 OP t1_itm4dii wrote

From the article: “The largest private Hasidic Jewish school in New York State stole millions of dollars from a variety of government programs in a yearslong fraud, the school admitted in federal court documents filed on Monday.

The operators of the school, the Central United Talmudical Academy, which serves more than 2,000 boys in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, acknowledged that they illegally diverted money from government programs for school lunches, technology and child care. They also admitted to setting up no-show jobs for some employees while paying others in cash and coupons so the employees could qualify for welfare, according to a deferred prosecution agreement filed in Federal District Court in Brooklyn.

In all, the school agreed to pay $5 million in fines in addition to the more than $3 million it had already paid in restitution as part of the deal to avoid prosecution…”

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RW3Bro t1_itmpjbg wrote

The last sentence of the article is also wild.

> In 2019, The Times reported, the Central United Talmudical Academy agreed to give state standardized tests in reading and math to more than 1,000 students. Every one of them failed.

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impactedturd t1_itnm5o7 wrote

How do you even fail a standardized test? Does that just mean that none of them were performing at their grade level compared to their peers?

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mdragon13 t1_itnn6sf wrote

They literally dont even teach them the subject. Secular classes are a joke in yeshivahs, and the students know it. It just straight up isn't valued by them.

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REIRN t1_itpjt36 wrote

chasidic yeshivahs*. The yeshivah I graduated from had an average SAT score of around 1400 and 10% of graduates went to an ivy.

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grimsb t1_itnr9j1 wrote

They aren’t taught much English, and I’m guessing the standardized tests aren’t available in Yiddish.

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TerraAdAstra t1_itnyxxj wrote

They aren’t real schools. At all.

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bacon69 t1_itplpd1 wrote

Fake schools….. fake cops (shomrim).

Just google Kiryas Joel… enough said.

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Pufflekun t1_itp5lnl wrote

How do you pass a standardized reading test, if you cannot read one word of English‽

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Hairy_Necessary6700 t1_itmacoy wrote

Isn’t it written somewhere in their faith….In those thingys Moses got…. Something something about stealing?

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DaoFerret t1_itmi7nm wrote

“Thou Shalt Not get caught stealing!”
— Supply Side Moses

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brownredgreen t1_itn1noy wrote

Jus like the millions of Xtians who "love thy neighbor" by voting for Trump

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senseofphysics t1_itox4qk wrote

You just obliterated any religious argument they may pose.

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Hairy_Necessary6700 t1_itpesjz wrote

There are mental gymnastics they play to argue what they are doing is not stealing. And I’m sure they have so much experience doing this daily to live with themselves, that they’ll win gold at the next mental Olympics.

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manchesthairy t1_itnuv0b wrote

The yeshiva also benefited from its fraudulent payment practices because many employees and other community members used their welfare status to receive New York City vouchers for child care — and then used them to pay the school, according to the documents. The Times reported last month that a city voucher program sent nearly a third of its total funding to Hasidic neighborhoods last year.

The federal investigation found that the school defrauded government programs meant to provide meals to low-income children, receiving more than $3.2 million from 2014 to 2016 in reimbursement for what the authorities said was an “almost entirely fictitious” meal program.

The fraud included the fabrication of records and dozens of sworn misrepresentations to government agencies, the authorities noted.

In some cases, the court documents said, yeshiva officials claimed that they provided meals to children on days when the school was not in session

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Joe_Doblow t1_itojqf9 wrote

So you can literally PAY to not go to jail. That’s kind of not fair

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senseofphysics t1_itox9di wrote

Usually Hasidics are pardoned the same day by the judge for free but I guess this time it was the limit

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spaetzelspiff t1_itnbl8j wrote

>they illegally diverted money from government programs for school lunches, technology and child care. They also admitted to setting up no-show jobs for some employees while paying others in cash

Damn. More like Central UNited Talmudical School, amirite?

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m1kasa4ckerman t1_itmweb4 wrote

Wow the welfare fraud involving employees, too. The corruption is next level.

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PlaneStill6 t1_itnzpyw wrote

Oh yeah, where are the criminal prosecutions?

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P0stNutClarity t1_itpg1wp wrote

Apparently the 8 million dollar restitution was negotiated so no one faces criminal charges. Complete bullshit. Should be payback AND PRISON for all involved

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bklyngaucho t1_itm9wsc wrote

First of all: I don’t understand how any religious schools are getting tax payer money. Can someone explain that one to me?

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Arleare13 t1_itmc765 wrote

Because the Supreme Court says we have to. If a state provides any funding to secular private schools, they have to provide funding to religious private schools also.

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Rottimer t1_itmiych wrote

Which is bullshit unless the religious school doesn’t have a religious test for entry. If I can’t send my kids to that school because they’re not Jewish, then they shouldn’t be getting taxpayer money. Other religious schools, like Catholic schools, will accept any child. I have doubts the same can be said about the yeshivas.

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UncomfyNoises t1_itn0hz1 wrote

I agree 10000%. Isn’t that the whole point of paying taxes to reap the so-called benefits like sending your child to the school you choose. Yeah, whole system is muffed.

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TonyzTone t1_itnjydm wrote

>sending your child to the school you choose.

What parent has a choice of school? You go to the school you're districted to, and unless you specifically seek an exemption into a specialized, one of the selective schools, or pay additional money for a private education, you're being educated whichever school you're closest to.

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thaylin79 t1_itnquva wrote

You create a list of the dozen or so schools of your preference with the most preferred at the top, you then get accepted to whatever school accepts you on that list which doesn't necessarily equate to a school that's in your district since there's magnet schools all over.

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elizabeth-cooper t1_itmkra1 wrote

>unless the religious school doesn’t have a religious test for entry.

It doesn't. They're not allowed to discriminate. But this is a bullshit comment. You wouldn't want your kids to go to a Hasidic school if it were the last school on earth, you just want to find a reason to bash them.

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larrylevan t1_itnhx52 wrote

And there are plenty of reasons to bash them. They are nothing but a scam that do not provide a legitimate education.

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Rottimer t1_itpq0i4 wrote

These school administrators stole from their own community. They're not only denying those kids an even passable education, but stealing food out of the mouths of their community's children to pad their own pockets and the pockets of their friends. And you're here telling me that I'm just looking for a reason to bash them? They've proved themselves complete assholes. No one has to "look" for that.

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elizabeth-cooper t1_itprqgy wrote

They did. So why are you inventing problems so you can criticize them for things that you would do too?

"I wouldn't associate with them if you paid me, but they're assholes for not wanting to associate with me."

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Rottimer t1_itpso3w wrote

I wouldn't associate with those school administrators, but my point is that if I wanted to send my child there (doesn't matter why) then I should be able to without a religious test. Maybe that's the case, I haven't tried. But I'm guessing it's not and that I would be strongly discouraged from doing so.

0

elizabeth-cooper t1_itptbkn wrote

Of course it matters why. You're getting angry that you can't have something you don't want.

It's like complaining that it's not fair that you haven't been pushed in front of a train.

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westsidejeff t1_itn7xw9 wrote

Only transportation, lunch and secular textbooks are federally funded. This since the money benefits the children directly.

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elizabeth-cooper t1_itmbd4o wrote

All private schools are eligible for government grants for specific things such as child care, lunch, technology, textbooks, special ed, and busing.

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Jordie1010 OP t1_itm4zsd wrote

Step 1. Dismantle the miseducation strategy and punish these schools that think they can play by their own out of touch, banana republic rule book. Step 2. Once educated properly Produce young adults armed with deductive reasoning, an understanding of the world outside their bubble and an ability to question their authorities. Step 3. Steal underpants

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Jimmy_kong253 t1_itnaina wrote

The taxpayers shouldn't be funding any religious school in general. Separation of church and state should really be enforced

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CLWR43290 t1_itntskr wrote

The Hasidic's have been using tax payers dollars to defraud the NYC and NYS government for years and this shit needs to stop. If you think this Brooklyn school was an isolated event, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you too.

Anything said about the Hasidic's and their continual frauds is deemed "anti-Semitic" which is complete bullshit. We are calling our fraud and this needs to be investigated until every single one of them who is committing crimes is brought to justice and forced to pay back every dollar stolen.

I read on here someone asking why nobody was going to jail and I'm asking the same question. You do the crime, you do the time. The Hasid's are like an onion. Keep peeling back the layers and watch how they are committing crimes on a daily basis calling it '"business as usual". Fuck them, I pay too much in taxes to give a fuck about anybody not paying their fair share or stealing it for their own use.

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Nikolllllll t1_itnw211 wrote

They are a big political power and they do get what they ask for. And before anyone calls me an antisemite please think back to the beginning of the pandemic and the huge get togethers the hasidic community were having while we were on lockdown and the lack of police response to them. Or public projects they were able to get canceled cause they didn't want them in their area.

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CLWR43290 t1_itnxlnk wrote

Everything you said is 100% true and I know this to be true. The judge went easy on them and he should be ashamed on himself for that. Zero faith that this ever gets resolved. I have no time for this bullshit anyway. I'm glad people are calling things like they are these days. This was organized fraud, bottom line, plain and simple.

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FelneusLeviathan t1_itoo9bw wrote

I heard someone say that them hating the Italian mafia doesn’t mean they hate all Italians; just that those particular Italians are being dicks

2

Ill_Celery_2851 t1_itnrcon wrote

Ok but still nothing has been done about the East ramapo central school district, which had nearly 90% of their budget stolen by the Hasidic community to put into their own schools. It’s at the point where high school kids can’t graduate because they can’t afford to have teachers or to teach every subject! Of course this isn’t spoken on at all because the affected community is mostly made up of lower-class minorities. This was where I grew up and now it doesn’t even look the same. Haphazard buildings, vomit-worthy smells constantly, dirt and toys strewn everywhere, unkempt properties, fire hazards on fire hazards, etc. and above all, no consideration for those that live around them. How do you not pay taxes and still steal from the underprivileged🙄

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My_Name_ISNULL t1_itmqubi wrote

Careful what you write in this thread.

Last time something like this came up in this sub I wrote a comment about how as a whole their community really doesn't care about anyone else; to be fair, it was harsher sounding that this.

Got an admin message warning me -

>from reddit[A] sent 11 days ago

>We've been alerted to activity on your account(s) that is considered breaking Reddit’s rules.

>We’ve been alerted that you’ve violated Reddit’s rule against promoting hate in the following content. link

>Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. We don’t tolerate promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability, and any communities or people that encourage or incite violence or hate towards marginalized or vulnerable groups will be banned.

>Please familiarize yourself with Reddit’s Content Policy to make sure you understand the rules for participating on Reddit.

>This is an automated message; responses will not be received by Reddit admins.

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Arleare13 t1_itms58q wrote

Agreed, when posting you should be careful not to allow anger about a specific case to turn into broader hatred.

EDIT: Would the people downvoting this care to explain what’s so objectionable about this? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

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socialcommentary2000 t1_itn23bx wrote

Agreed. Absolutely nobody from Orange County or Lakewater should post in this thread.

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mwirishkid17 t1_itonykw wrote

As someone who grew up next to KJ, it’s hard to visit home anymore. The changes have been radical

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readyforthehausu t1_itmay4r wrote

Here for the well reasoned and measured comments

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mywallstbetsacct t1_itoepu2 wrote

As a Jew (and I hate how I have to preface with that, always), it is well known how much these Satmars and their ilk milk the government with various schemes, many of which are fraudulent, while others are borderline. Kirjas Yoel is a prime example.

It is disgraceful and gives us all a bad name.

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realityhofosho t1_itperco wrote

So many docs out there on this topic, and yet we’re always so “shocked”.

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Stay_Quiett t1_itna6p4 wrote

if they did this type of probing into boro park williamsburg crown heights and flatbush we would uncover all types of fraud going on in these jewish communities. but if you ask too many questions its anti Semitic. all new yorkers hate how they get to play by there own rules and get to be above the law.

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bklynzboy t1_itmuha5 wrote

Stop funding their schools and let them fund their own schools.

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ApplesauceLover123 t1_itmxa87 wrote

Good, now let's audit public school administrators and school funding. If we want better education for children, we have to make sure our taxpayer dollars are actually reaching them and their teachers.

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karensPA t1_itppjlq wrote

For one thing our public schools aren’t paying their teachers in scrip so they can sponge off welfare benefits because they have this thing called a public sector union.

1

EditorPractical9424 t1_itnt7sh wrote

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Don't look at Monroe, Ny or kiryas joel.

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manchesthairy t1_itnuqhi wrote

The documents filed on Monday revealed that the school was at the center of a varied and wide-ranging fraud scheme.

For years, the documents showed, the school paid many of its teachers and other employees in part with cash, coupons and life insurance policies, making it seem as if the employees were earning less than they really were and allowing them to pay lower taxes and qualify for welfare.

From 2010 to 2015, the school paid employees with at least $12 million in coupons — 17 percent of its total employee compensation — which the workers could use as cash in Hasidic grocery stores and other shops, the investigators found.

The school also set up no-show jobs for friends of employees and other community members, the documents said.

Yikes

9

socialcommentary2000 t1_itpk62g wrote

This is literally a mob construction trades racket from the 1970's.

Literally. I mean there's more technical sophistication but this was the concrete racket back then, to a tee.

4

Relative-Fox-466 t1_itmrxz8 wrote

How many other schools are doing this? I'm sure they're not the only one

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sennaone t1_itml4nb wrote

Drop in the bucket

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FreeSushi69 t1_itn0hwo wrote

Now get the hedge funds and big banks and dtcc too

4

biggreencat t1_itmyrcz wrote

are they the ones paying, or are they just shunting out public money they've been collecting

3

Suspici0us_Package t1_itor6sm wrote

This whole situation makes me so mad. So our tax dollars essentially just went to a community that isn't even apart of our community and doesn't want to be apart of it, yet scammed millions of our dollars out of our system.

What else are they doing?

3

monkeyballs2 t1_itozd6k wrote

A girl i know worked briefly at one of these schools.. she rocked the boat and got fired.. it went from ‘join the team you are gonna make a lot of money’, to ‘mind your business’ real quick. She would say things like ‘but shouldn’t we upkeep the building at least.. like the kids need supplies right??’ .. And man she really needed that job. I thought she was just being bossy and dramatic lol

3

Graybeard36 t1_itpj3s5 wrote

this is not shocking. the corruption and blatant bullshit is completely unacceptable.

this is not anti semitic. this is not a dog whistle.

It's plain to see that this particular community of these particular human beings are jerks.

3

mikeluscher159 t1_itoehwh wrote

It pains me to admit (socially) but it angers me (as a taxpayer) as I wander through the backstreets and basement's Williamsburg (literally my job) to see these kids get starved of a decent secular education

And if they break out of the faith when they get older, it's even worse because now they've got limited English, and maybe a 5th grade math/comprehension

I've had doctors explain to me that they get 30+ year olds coming in with things that 🤕, they can't identify the part of the body that hurts 😢

When the 9-5 is the Torah, I guess it leaves less time for science/history/labor 🤷‍♂️

And I've met more than a few progressive Rabbi's in my travels, that have educated me plenty on the Jewish faith (I was raised Catholic) the status quo is quite strong in their community

At no point do I condem anti semitism (Kanye 👀), but I've got close friends who are more moderate/mainstream followers of Judaism that ask me how I deal with the neighborhood all day

That level of internal strife can't be good for anyone 🥺

All I want to know when I show up is who owns the building, where does the rent go, where can I find the super, and where's the meter?

And that's a perpetual struggle 😳

I know Sukkot season (just passed) but PLEASE stop blocking access to the gas/electric utilities with building materials

It only makes my job harder, and it's a massive fire hazard

2

bullymeahhh t1_itokwga wrote

I fucking hate this shit. Beside the fact it's morally wrong, it ends up with certain people hating all Jews because the most visually identifiable group of Jews pulls this shit off.

0

Rottimer t1_itpqdq0 wrote

You can't worry about the bigots and the racists. They're going to be bigoted and racist regardless.

−1

evv43 t1_itp2was wrote

Is this problem limited to specific sects within Hasidism? Like is it predominantly Satmar? Or is this part of larger Hasidic communities like Labavitch?

0

Ok_Tie_6474 t1_itpkuuw wrote

So many out there doing the same thing thing just pay the money back no criminal charge sweet deal

0

bttrflyr t1_itpqb45 wrote

Leave it to religious schools to commit fraud on such a high level.

0

York_Villain t1_itn1b65 wrote

Private/religious schooling shouldn't exist.

−1

[deleted] t1_itm6n6q wrote

Just make them take down those stupid fucking stickers they put on hundreds of crosswalk signs throughout manhattan. Every one of those needs a dick and balls drawn on the guy's face.

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