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batkave t1_isp4yiz wrote

Man if only there was solutions to this... like increasing social services and getting people out of poverty like all the studies show. Nah, lets just alarm people, blame it on the same people, act like its a war zone, and give the cops (who don't prevent anything) more money.

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chrisinouterspace t1_ispdped wrote

It truly is amazing how some people need to be babysitted their entire life just to keep them from shooting whoever makes them angry

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bkemp1984Part2 t1_isph6jc wrote

When you understand how mental health, the brain, and socialization works, it's not amazing at all.

EDIT: not that I agree with the use of the term "babysitted" to describe social change aimed at improving fairness

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WorldsBestPapa t1_isphy0b wrote

That’s reductive and takes away their agency. Being poor doesn’t make you pick up a gun and shoot someone.

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bkemp1984Part2 t1_ispj9lf wrote

No, it's not. Nor did I say being poor means makes you do anything, much less try to kill.

It's not reductive because it's just recognizing decades worth of psychology, sociology, and epigenetics. I wouldn't have invested most of my career in mental health if I thought people were just destined to be however they grew up, because I know people can change and overcome and regain/realize agency. One can do that and still recognize what we know about how forces like poverty, exposure to violence at a young age, trauma, etc. shape someone's brain and behavior.

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ExtremeHobo t1_ispm7uu wrote

People get really confused about deterministic vs probabilistic. Being poor does not determine that you will commit crime. Being poor increases the chances you will commit crime. It's really simple.

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Greenmind76 t1_isrlv5b wrote

When you’ve got very little to sustain yourself it makes you more likely to kill to protect what you have or obtain more.

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bkemp1984Part2 t1_istlexd wrote

Right.....it's not saying all poor people are violent or all violent people are poor. It's just that resource acquisition and protection is a key component of any violent neighborhood, city, country, etc.

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Tylerjb4 t1_ispkr5d wrote

Those brains don’t deserve to exist

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bkemp1984Part2 t1_ispoghj wrote

Oof. It that sort of thinking were the best answer society could come up with on this issue, then probably none of us would deserve to exist.

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Tylerjb4 t1_ispp8or wrote

People who want to murder others? That’s who you want to defend?

−15

bkemp1984Part2 t1_ispwuwv wrote

Why is that such a crazy notion? I mean even our justice system, whose job is justice, has decided those people are worthy of being defended. I don't have to love everyone who tries to kill someone else in order to not agree with a random person basically saying they lose the right to exist.

People deciding which other people deserve to exist has a pretty bad track record in human history. But sure, we have it right this time.

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sullitron138 t1_isqvoet wrote

Stay there in outer space, Chris. Much easier to pull yourself up by your bootstraps in zero gravity.

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jracka t1_isqek3h wrote

I agree with you, and we also need to address some other root issues. For example trying to focus on two parent households, greater access to birth control, and tools to help kids when they are young.

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freakame t1_istsmdn wrote

scratch two parent households.. that's some evangelical talking points.. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/opinion/two-parent-family.html

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jracka t1_isu1ls4 wrote

You are absolutely incorrect. First of all look at Cross's paper, a lot of what they puts ahead of two-parent households is already mentioned previously, ie social services, so you need to read my comment after the original. Also, not sure if you even read her paper but she absolutely did not say two-parent households were bad.

"Using new Census data and the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, this brief finds that black and white children from intact homes are significantly more likely to be flourishing economically, educationally, and socially on the three outcomes examined here: child poverty, education, and incarceration.

At the same time, consistent with Cross’ research, we do find that the association between family structure and one major education outcome, college graduation, is weaker for black children than white children. Nevertheless, young black adults are significantly more likely to graduate from college if they grew up in an intact family.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children

Also, never been to church so I have no idea about evangelical talking points.

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hiho-silverware t1_ispwwvm wrote

The cops arrest the perpetrators of gun violence. And your logic is that does not prevent anything?

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ExtremeHobo t1_ispmhc3 wrote

Not really trying to make any point here but just observing that if 11 people were killed by one person in Richmond last week it would be national news. 11 people killed by 11 different people barely is noted in the local news.

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TheLuteceSibling t1_isqaab8 wrote

Yeah… because 11 murders is way different from 1 mass murder or 1 serial killer with 11 victims. The former is 11 points of failure that each produce 1 death. The latter is ONE point of failure that results in 11 deaths.

Assuming its similarly difficult to locate a pre-murderer and a pre-mass-murderer, our money is far better spent addressing pre-mass-murderers.

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Greenmind76 t1_isrljhx wrote

Like that guy that supposedly killed a bunch of black girls in Kansas City? Not sure what the details are or how accurate the news wash about it but… yeah.

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10000Didgeridoos t1_ist2k70 wrote

How is a serial killer a "point of failure"? That's not the correct phrase for describing that.

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AtwoodAKC t1_isoee3l wrote

what happened with the Westover Hills incident? Does anyone have more info?

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Asterion7 t1_isogti3 wrote

Supposedly it was part of a custody dispute. But that is only rumor at this point.

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NuttingOnNutzy t1_isozd38 wrote

That’s so sad. An angry coparent was the first thing that came to my mind since it happened on a Friday

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_isofczq wrote

last I saw was fight between people who knew each other, on Jahnke I assume, and woman was shot and died.

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AtwoodAKC t1_isomi6t wrote

Thanks, I had missed this whole news event.

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DefaultSubsAreTerrib t1_isp84ru wrote

Which? Weren't there two separate incidents in Westover hills?

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_isqi2es wrote

I think the other one was over by Ashton square which makes it sadly not a surprise at all if so

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freetimerva t1_iss4n9l wrote

Gunshots every night in there.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_ist5wdo wrote

yeah. That complex is a mess. Some of them are probably coming from Bell atlantic though...

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5252_rpm t1_isp3okl wrote

What’s the difference between “dead” and “killed?”

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TheLuteceSibling t1_isqaoh8 wrote

Gunfire often causes a panic, and panicky people produce their own injuries and deaths, notably by trampling or accidentally pushing someone off a ledge or into traffic.

Killed is for homicides. Death includes secondary and tertiary effects.

Edit to add example: whenever someone says “gun deaths” the number they’re about to give you includes suicides, accidents, etc., which outnumber murders more than 2:1

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DefaultSubsAreTerrib t1_isp8gr8 wrote

In the context of a shooting I'm not sure there is one. Seems most likely that their graphic design intern wasn't paying much attention when they made that graphic.

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Hurlaroid t1_isqelv2 wrote

Well, one you can still rez and the other has to corpse walk back to get their gear.

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nartarf t1_isox2ai wrote

It’s always people that know each other. It’s not dangerous out there. People are just at the end of their rope. Crime isn’t increasing.

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10000Didgeridoos t1_ist2rlh wrote

Do you people even bother Googling this stuff before making up stats and up voting blindly?

Stray bullets when these idiots miss several times are, in fact, quite dangerous. Did you forget about the multiple kids killed by stray bullets in broad daylight over the last couple years? They weren't the target. They got hit anyway.

Murders both locally and statewide are up significantly from 10 years ago. Lower than the 90s, yes, but no you're wrong about violent crime "decreasing". It isn't, sorry. It bottomed out in the late 2000s to early 2010s and has since recently begun increasing again.

State Police 2022 report:

"By the numbers: The state recorded 1,194 violent crimes per 100,000 residents last year — a 2.5% increase over 2020.

The 2021 rate is still 16% lower than a decade ago. The rate of property crimes dropped 2% between 2020 and 2021 and is down 33% over the last decade.

Yes, but: The murder rate has almost doubled over the last 10 years.

The state recorded 6.59 murders per capita in 2021 compared to 3.69 in 2011.

The state counted 570 murders and non-negligent manslaughters last year, up from 550 in 2020. In 2011, the total number of murders sat at 299."

We experienced nearly 3 additional murders per capita in 2021 than in 2011 across Virginia.

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freakame t1_istwqyu wrote

> The 2021 rate (of violent crimes) is still 16% lower than a decade ago.

so it has decreased overall. yes, murders are up, that's not good, but having a meltdown over "increases in crime" over small sample windows isn't a logical way to view this. there are also a lot of issues with using a HIGHLY unusual set of years for comparisons. forceable rape went up in 2020 from 2019, then down in 2021 from 2020. is that significant? probably as significant as the murder numbers...

please do also note that cops have shown that they lie about numbers when it suits them. you have to immediately question the police as the source for this because there are no checks on their data, they refuse to release sources or information about how they get to these numbers, you just have to trust them. (believe me, I've FOIAd this kind of info before, they're assholes about it).

this is the data: https://va.beyond2020.com/va_public/View/dispview.aspx?ReportId=2

that tells you fuck all about anything. it's a number in a table, no records, no arrest reports, no conviction rates, nothing to give it meaning.

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nartarf t1_isxb6hd wrote

Yes take the data produced by the police with a grain of salt. Most sexual assaults are not reported. Most reported sexual assaults are not investigated or “solved” by police. It’s something like 20% clearance rate. I think Richmond’s doing pretty good if the crime rate is steady/decreasing AND the police are down 160 positions.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_isqioc0 wrote

Crime is increasing. All the data says so. The time to get ahead of it is now

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nartarf t1_isqrsxr wrote

Uh naw dude. Here is Richmond crime stats as of yesterday it’s funny, crime being down doesn’t garner eyeballs or clicks so they stick to each individual crime to keep the fear clicks rolling in.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_ist5l86 wrote

so where is 2018 on that? All I see is 21 and 22, both of which are high years, we are talking before and after 2020

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LusciousLove7 t1_isqbnkv wrote

I think a lot more people get shot than are reported.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_isqi5v3 wrote

Actually that one tends to be fairly accurate because they show up at the hospital in the hospital's report

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Stofficer2 t1_isol6xu wrote

Damn wasn’t there just a gun buy back?

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STORMPUNCH t1_isp31ok wrote

Almost like those don't actually reduce crime rates or something.

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tacoflavored789 t1_isp5vh4 wrote

It’s almost like one local program can’t fix an entire culture of guns and loosely regulated (if any) gun industry in this country.

They are one of many tools to help prevent more gun violence. Nothing will solve it until we regulate gun manufacturers. It’s just too easy and cheap to get a gun in America.

Before tHeY bUy gUn iLLeGaLLy people get here: duuhh they do, and how did the gun eventually get bought? Legally.

Ain’t nobody going into gun manufacturers’ factories and stealing these guns - they’re all bought legally at first.

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kilofoxtrotfour t1_ispim8q wrote

From my observation.. I've met Powhatan bubba's who spend 50% of their take-home-pay on guns, and they've never harmed anyone... Yet, some of the inmates I worked with at Sussex-2(prison work is very interesting) would stab you to death with a screwdriver if they could. We have an issue with violence, not guns. If you are prone to being violent, it's a lot more efficient & no-energy to kill someone with a firearm than a knife.

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tacoflavored789 t1_isq1898 wrote

We have an issue with violent people having easy access to guns.

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kilofoxtrotfour t1_isq7fd7 wrote

I'm just amazed at how people think they can "pull a gun" for every stupid little parking lot dispute or quarrel.

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tacoflavored789 t1_isq7x5q wrote

Same here.

I’m also just amazed that I could right now go to bass pro, buy a gun, buy as much ammo as I want, and go straight to a local daycare and wreck unbelievable havoc. All within a span of 1 hour.

And still have enough time to catch jeopardy tonight

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_isqiido wrote

Kind of interesting how rare it is considering that. And how rare it is in Switzerland considering how everybody has to have an assault rifle

Almost makes you think that guns are a red herring and something else is going on

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tacoflavored789 t1_isqmk2n wrote

There is no red herring.

The reason Swiss have lots of guns is because they HAVE to go into the military and are issued a gun. Oh, would you look at that? Gun training. Something America does not have.

So you are making a gun control argument by bringing up Switzerland.

Crazy how when majority gun owners are trained to use them safely and are properly filtered don’t go around shooting daycares

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bruxalle t1_issqo1b wrote

Their ammunition is also heavily audited by the government and kept in a military facility, not peoples homes. As usual, Charles is talking out of his ass.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_ist5cj7 wrote

yes, exactly my point. It's not the guns that are the issue. The very definition of a red herring

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dreadpiraterobertzzz t1_isv6voh wrote

The reason there are less gun deaths in Switzerland has less to do with gun control laws and more to do with the attitude that people in Switzerland have towards guns. Laws do not work if people are unwilling to follow them. People in Switzerland view gun ownership as a privilege and not a right like in America. It is a necessary evil to protect the nation from foreign invaders. The Swiss do not have a gun culture. They do not fetishize firearms the way people do in the US. Also Switzerland does not have concentrated poverty the way the US does. This concentrated poverty is what leads to most of these gun homicides. Gun control laws can help the problem but they are a bandaid solution at best. The root of the problem is cultural.

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midsouthmouth t1_isvnqa0 wrote

You make some good points there about the difference in barriers to gun violence, but I think you miss something. Overall US culture can help transform those "bubbas" into inmates, whether due to workplace violence, domestic violence, bar fights that ramp up, or drug deals. Domestic terror through mass shootings is sad but still rare compared to all that. No, not every guy winds up popping off or getting caught and convicted. The easier access helps sow more chaos.

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kilofoxtrotfour t1_isvpq6z wrote

Very true. I see Hollywood, and the Gun Culture as major drivers of violence. Hollywood has "normalized" violence acts, made it cool, and owning a gun as part of getting your "man card". I work on a Rescue Squad & currently working on getting my Paramedic license, between that & working in the prison system, it's amazing the level of suffering some people will inflict on their neighbor or spouse. I just shake my head some days. We roll up Code-3 to find someone beaten within inches of their life, and there's no gun involved. That's really the difference between a gun & no gun. A girlfriend shot multiple times & dead, versus unspeakable pain & lifelong injuries. How in the f*ck did we get to the point where this was a social norm? I get mad a people, mad as hell some days. I simply walk way from it. Been doing that for 46 years, it's not that difficult.

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mybeamishb0y t1_isqal8f wrote

Did everybody hear kilofoxtrot's racial dog whistle? Consider the demographics of Sussex prison.

Also love the "don't blame guns" rhetoric. You an oath keeper, kilo?

−3

kilofoxtrotfour t1_isqhc42 wrote

I never said "don't blame guns", they're just a whole lot more convenient for killing people. There's a reason why it takes 30 minutes to check-in and out of a prison, we need to verify nothing we bring in can be made into a weapon. When I was working on the telecom system in Building 3, an inmate killed a K9 and stabbed a guard with a shank -- so I stand by the claim that guns are not solely the problem. Sorry, I sent in my membership application for Oathkeepers & the Klux Klux Klan another with some Trump-worship stickers.. But, they all rejected my applications for being in an interracial marriage. So, ha... Sorry, not everyone who disagrees with you is a racist, we just disagree.

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STORMPUNCH t1_ispbpne wrote

I think we're talking around each other. The city buy back was like slapping a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. There is a lot of well-researched documentation out there demonstrating buy-backs as one of the least effective means of gun control.

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tacoflavored789 t1_ispd79e wrote

Again, as I said, one of many tools to help prevent gun violence.

Real change needs to come from laws changing across the country

−4

Stofficer2 t1_ispnsi7 wrote

What did the Ukrainian government hand out to its citizens when Russia invaded? Instead of us sending $50billion to Ukraine, we could use that to place multiple armed guards in every school. You know, just like how every politician or celebrity has an armed guard. Gun control is about control.

−3

tacoflavored789 t1_isq0ti4 wrote

Good lord I’ve never heard someone make such an incoherent argument.

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Tylerjb4 t1_ispliy6 wrote

If tons of cocaine can make it into the country, so can foreign firearms. We have a non-secure border. Not to mention you can make firearms at home. Japan has none of the cultural problems you just mentioned and just had an important ex government official murdered by a homemade firearm. Not to mention homemade explosives are even easier to make, coupled with drone technology, yikes.

−1

tacoflavored789 t1_isq13qr wrote

Lol what such strong arguments… good thing I’m not a total retard or id agree with you

−10

yowowthisgreat t1_isprwqv wrote

I would like to see these shootings on a map and the demographics of each person involved. It would help to better understand what's really going on and if it would affect me.

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HanEyeAm t1_isq2ypo wrote

You're not wrong, of course. Phrased another way, having that info would help you to understand your personal risk of getting murdered shot when going about your normal routine.

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1975hh3 t1_isr9l6d wrote

America ♥️ guns.

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tmos540 t1_ispeg7w wrote

Oh shit, there was something on 22nd st? What was it???

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mcfly413 t1_isq4sjy wrote

It was 22nd between Cary and Main no clue what the story is just saw all the cop cars

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rvafun100 t1_ispb6s9 wrote

Wow, Charles finally realizing that shootings aren’t confined to a few areas

0