Submitted by Callitaloss t3_10oyudd in singularity
This is what I was about to ask. If the kitchen isn't automated then it's not close to fully automated yet.
Basically, the automation is:
1- Let the customers push the order buttons instead of the staff
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It’s more than that. The food is delivered to the window automated too. It’s a significant change. Imagine this being implemented on a global scale.
They place the food on a conveyor belt.
You didn’t watch the video.
Sure I did. The food is on a belt in a bag. How do you think that bag of food got to the belt?
Lol what is it you think I’m not getting here? You think I don’t comprehend the food is being made by people in a kitchen? My fucking point is you’re downplaying the automated nature of the entire system as “just a conveyor belt”. You’re so fucking stupid my god, I hate this dumb fucking site.
What fucking huge leap in automation do you think a belt that moves food from one person to another is?
Do you think it just moves non-stop with no notion of which order goes to which customer? Did you see the FUCKING ROBOT for when you’re INSIDE THE RESTAURANT? You clearly didn’t bother watching the fucking video, and want to weirdly downplay it for some bizarre incomprehensible fucking reason, shut the fuck up, idiot.
You are fucking moron. It just goes to the next person in line. Or. If it's super fancy it has a number for the slot where they place the food that corresponds to a person.
Wait until you learn about the pneumatic tubes in NYC that delivered mail a century ago.
You're just pissed off Moobys doesn't have this technology. Not a surprise you're hating on McDonald's. You're afraid you're going to be out of a job.
Although I do give you that the Moobynet was very innovative.
>ignores everything I said
Yeah, such a moron bruh. You’re brain damaged.
Look, it got heated, but I very honestly do not understand what you think this conveyor belt delivery system is doing that couldn't have been done a decade, or more, ago. This is not singularity tech, it is basic assembly line automation that has been available for a very long time. Put item here, then it goes there is not new.
So instead of continually pointing out that they put things on a delivery mechanism and yelling at me how I am stupid for not seeing how that changes the world, explain to me how that is new tech instead of tech that has been available forever, but McDs decided to try out.
Edit: and, yes, a robot. Which is also not really new tech. Fun and cool, but Japan & China had similar silly butler robots a long while back, I think around 2015 or so.
Second edit, found a link: https://fortune.com/2015/07/06/robots-china/amp/
Where did I even say it was “singularity tech” lol. Still ignoring what I said too. Ignoring and putting words in my mouth. You just kept weird describing it as “a conveyor belt”. Fuck off. Fucking Reddit midwits honestly.
"Look at the video while I say nothing about why I think it is an important new tech" is not a fucking point that says anything.
I hope someday you learn how to communicate thoughts via writing, it's a useful skill.
And it's a singularity subreddit, so if the tech is not relevant to that why is it blowing your small atrophied mind?
???
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Lol, well that's not really even that close to fully automated then. There's a Dunkin by my house that has an AI taking orders at the Drive Thru. You pull up, tell the AI what you want, and then humans inside make it for you while you're working your way around to the Drive Thru window. The biggest difference here seems to be that they have conveyor belts delivering the food to people at the McDonalds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pllQyYtZkcA
Automating a full burger assembly is likely still too complex for a one-off stunt. They're replacing cashiers and drivethrough attendants with a conveyor belt. For in-store pickup they still have a human yell out the order numbers to be picked up.
So its a McSushi train
What do you imagine the automation team is going to be working on after they're done with the cashiers?
Yes, and it will be interesting when they have progress to show there. But this? This is basically automating things by making the customer do work a cashier used to do. Which, is great for McDonald's, but not exactly a huge leap in technology.
I mean that... company already made... that freaking arm thingy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyEHRXA_aA4
Do that, how hard could it be? Just buy the thing.
And... yeah. Someone's got to get it off the truck and into the shelves that the arm thingy uses so. Yes that's still a thing.
That burger looked like crap
Nah I heard that they automate the deep-fryer and the burger flipping
Ignoring the discussions around how many jobs this actually takes away (not many, and it creates other jobs elsewhere around machine design, installation and upkeep), if this 'automation' bothers people they should be pushing for Universal Basic Services (UBS).
People don't want these jobs, they want the (small amount of) money the job provides in order to purchase things to meet their basic needs. So provide UBS and nobody needs to do crap jobs like this in order to live.
I say bring on the automation; nobody should have to work at McDonalds. Let's just do jobs that help us live fulfilling lives and leave the drudgery to the robots.
My thoughts exactly. This isn't 1965. No one is getting a job at McDonald's and buying their first car 3 weeks later, or an engagement ring, or a home. Anyone who works at McDonald's is either a kid whose parents can't afford to buy them basic necessities, or it's one of three jobs they have. Or they're a manager who has stuck it out for years, but still hates their fucking life.
>and it creates other jobs elsewhere around machine design, installation and upkeep
I hate it when people say this because just looking at the numbers shows this isn't an answer. Let's say you replaced 40 people (remember it is multiple shifts and so on).
There use to be network engineer jobs everywhere. There is no longer network engineer jobs hardly anywhere anymore. The reason is, after things are installed, you don't need to keep the person. So a lot of times today it is someone contracted among a large area.
The upkeep, unless if these things are breaking down every day. You have a small group over a large area that fixed this stuff up. And then what happen with computers is as the prices went down. Instead of hiring people to fix the parts. They are now replacing the entire computer and far less people are involved.
Like if you are replacing them 30 people and still have to keep even half for fixing and what not. This would make it more expensive because now you have down time and so on.
And then the design bit. Someone working at mc d likely doesn't have the background or ability to do design work. Did you know mc d is one of the biggest disability employers in the world? They even train their managers on this not to be nice. Sometimes they tell the managers this is the best the disabled person can get, and due to this they will stick around and jump through more crap because there is no other choice other than homeless or death. Litterally!!!
Anyways, even when you look at a normal person. Designing and so on now takes degrees in robotic or mechanical engineering. Meaning now the person has to magically over not have done a major degree, have the debt with that, and so on. And then even if they did. How many designers do you really need?
Oh and it is likely by then you can simply tell an AI your problem, your budget, and so on. And it will give you several designs, the software, and so on
Tldr the math doesn't add up to make your statement remotely true. Many people will be hurt by this
Now don't get me wrong. I 100% want this to happen. It more and more forces us to ubi and maybe a cashless society. But your statement wasn't factual
TL/DR: It doesn't take 100,000 people to design, install, and maintain robots that do the work of 100,000 people.
lol. This.
Likely if you were to replace 100,00 people. with the manager included you would need 5 people to keep up the system. The manager, 2 day shift, 2 night shift. And it is likely those 5 will actually cover a system that replaced half a million or more depending on distance and what not.
And even then their jobs will be replaced as it will be cheaper having robots installing, fixing, etc other robots and an AI control unit controlling it all.
> It doesn't take
Because it already took much more, starting with making first transistor, or even maybe making first tool thousands years ago, or ...
It's like charlie's dad in willy wonka getting replaced by a robot and then getting a job repairing the robot. After the robot is repaired there isn't much more to do.
I was thinking of that exact thing. I can't remember if it showed him having other workers around him when he was working before the robots, but I'm sure it showed just him fixing things or maybe a much smaller team.
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Anyone who says robots will make more jobs is saying screw all the other people.
The average number of people working for a fast food restaurant is 17-something (per shift)
Kitchen staff isn't automated yet. Also someone needs to be there to keep things civil to prevent vandalism and what not. Someone needs to clean.
So say 7 people prepare the food, 3 people throw trash out and keep the restaurant clean and other things. And 1 person is a manager. So we still need 11 out of 17
Also keep in mind these productivity boosts have been happening all the time, like today's fast food workers are significantly more productive than fast food workers of 2005. They need less people per restaurant vs 2005. Yet despite this there are more of these workers employed today in the US vs 2005.
That's not that they wouldn't be automated eventually, but let's not exaggerate - at this point it could be in this experimental phase for years just like Amazon go did. They promised thousands of stores and instead 7 years later we have only 30 tiny stores that almost nobody uses.
You're looking at today. Look at flippy the robot. The one that cooks burgers. Also vending machines that make pizza and stuff.
It's likely all employees will be replaced at some point and then for security you would use security robots or a handful of people over a number of stores.
You wrote a whole lot of words for nothing, man, I agree with you. I never said the jobs were replaced 1:1, nor that the same people working at McDonalds would get those jobs. How about before taking the absence of words negating something as an argument for that thing, and then writing an essay about it ... you just ask for clarification?
In any case, nothing you said negates my point about UBS.
>In any case, nothing you said negates my point about UBS.
I was just getting into the part where you're factually incorrect.
>I never said the jobs were replaced 1:1, nor that the same people working at McDonalds would get those jobs.
Then what was the point of the comment?
> Then what was the point of the comment?
Because it’s worthwhile to point out the nuance of the situation: it’s not that these jobs are lost and that’s it, but rather these jobs are lost but some others are opened up elsewhere.
It’s still a net negative loss of number of jobs, yes, but it’s not as bad as it’s made out by some.
>how many jobs this actually takes away (not many, and it creates other jobs elsewhere around machine design, installation and upkeep)
Classic Charlie and the Chocolate Factory logic. I fully support this argument.
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This is the US we're talking about, it's a sovereign currency. Taxes don't pay for government spending.
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> if this 'automation' bothers people they should be pushing for Universal Basic Services (UBS).
respectfully I think people's fears are a little more nuanced than that. obviously if AI is going to make most work that people do today unnecessary, we should distribute those benefits to not just shareholders but also stakeholders which will be every member of society.
however, I think people in general lack trust in such systems. who will control that system of benefit distribution (distributing food, currency, etc) -- the government? private companies?
I think people are disturbed by the fact that, up until this AI revolution, one's economic value is inherent because they can perform labor that there is demand for, and so ultimately the people, the workers, have a lot of leverage and can exert influence on the system, because they are needed. whereas, after this AI revolution, assuming we are talking about HLMI -- meaning that basically any task is better done by a machine than a person -- the worker now has no leverage in the economic system and is fully at the mercy of whoever controls the system. whether that is a governing body or a corporation is kind of irrelevant, it's an uncomfortable situation to be in.
This is all true, and my comment was simplistic. In my defense, it's hard to cover such a massive topic in a few sentences. Yes we need UBS, but alongside it we also need a huge restructuring of our economic and political systems to reduce wealth (and power) inequality, and bring the tools of human and natural flourishing back within our direct (democratic) control. And this is still a simplistic and reductive comment.
There’s gotta be someone in the back keeping an eye on the place, because otherwise it’s not for “people on the go”, it’s for squatters and junkies. That what happens to the ATM vestibule at my bank. The electronic lock is broken and anyone can get inside after hours.
The video says that there is an employee to "answer questions" (probably also to deter those things).
Junkies are the most on the go people on planet earth. The quests are never ending.
Oh shit! I never thought of that
There's videos online of people going to this McDonald's and it has a full indoor kitchen staff cooking the food. The only automated process is ordering the food and taking your bag from the drive-thru.
It's time to make killer robots
Am I the only one put off by there being an American town literally called White Settlement?
The city got its name because it was the lone settlement of white colonists amid several Native American villages in the Fort Worth area in the Texas Republic territory in the 1840s.
On October 14, 2005, city leaders, citing hurdles in attracting businesses, announced a plan to have local voters decide on a possible name change for the town from White Settlement to West Settlement. the name change was overwhelmingly rejected by a vote of 2,388 to 219
No doubt the voters were concerned the town might still be confused with those Native American villages.
I wonder if folks would feel the same way if it was any other color.. I would hope so
Turquoise Settlement
>the name change was overwhelmingly rejected by a vote of 2,388 to 219
Texas!
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I would have thought nothing of it but even in my Northern California town there was a place called “n word bar” up until a year ago
wait, like the name of the place was literally “n word bar” or are you censoring the word yourself?
There is a petition to officially rename it Hhwhhaaat Settlement, as would be the traditional pronunciation in such a location...
nope. i totally agree and i sort of grew up there… also why tf is there an automated mcdonald’s in white settlement of all places???
Yeah amen to that. Everyone’s all “wow you don’t have to talk to a single person to get subpar food (still made by people in the back)” and all I can think about is a) the fact that a place with that name exists, b) the fact that no one seems to notice, and c) McDonald’s must have know this would get attention…why did they choose that place of all places?
I'm sure a lot of people like me, didn't appear to notice it to you, because we already knew about it.
the unemployment numbers are going to shock everyone very soon. It will be so fast. We are not ready.
This restaurant isn't even close to being fully automated yet, so deriving that conclusion from this post strikes me as a bit odd.
I think those numbers might rise in the next few years (think somewhat less than Covid numbers at most), but I'm highly skeptical there'll be this unemployment crisis that you're describing at some point this decade.
AI and robotics has indeed made significant amounts of progress over the past few years (especially AI) the technology today is still nowhere near capable of performing the entirety of a large chunk of the workforce's jobs; fully replacing an employee's complete set of tasks is a much higher bar than merely augmenting the employee. And even the augmentation era has yet to fully get underway (although we're obviously seeing early signs of that with ChatGPT and the like).
And that's not even taking into consideration that mass adoption of new technology takes a good while and in many cases has to go through legal hurdles before being adopted at all.
I think, as this becomes more common and the staff becomes yet more automatized, we're gonna need to tax these things more and redistribute the wealth produced back to the local population it'd otherwise be hiring.
I’m sorry sir, this is 🇺🇸 /s
(But not really sarcastic, more serious)
Why won’t anyone think about the shareholders
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Well, yes? That's the idea behind post-scarcity. At a certain level of machine intelligence/automation, it's impossible to provide enough useful work for everyone in society. Hell, it's kinda impossible now, with how many bullshit jobs there are out there.
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How so? What law of thermodynamics does post-scarcity violate?
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A large number of robots, yes. At a certain level in automation, most goods will be able to be produced without human effort involved. At which point, it doesn't make sense to require people to contribute to society in order to procure said goods.
There would obviously limits to how much one person can procure, as robots would not have infinite energy and matter, but post-scarcity never meant that all goods would be availably freely and cheaply, just most of them. The ones for our basic survival and a significant proportion of our other desires.
UBI would be the first step, and once implemented, the amount of UBI each person gets should continue to grow as automation and technology improves.
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Wtf is up with the "onion burger" lmao
It's what we will be all eating in the future man.
White settlement is getting rid of low wage jobs often held by minorities… I feel like that’s straight out of Snow Crash.
“Depending on how you want to think about it, it was funny or inevitable or symbolic that the robotic takeover did not start at MIT, NASA, Microsoft or Ford. It started at a Burger-G restaurant…”
I hate that progress is slowed because of the "Dey took our jerbs" mentality, I've never met someone who though maccas was a long term and rewarding career.
90% of the time, "job" is a shorthand synonym for "recurrent problem" so it roughly translates to "stop solving problems I get paid for those" (this is why we can't have nice things)
About 25 workers between part and full time at each McDonald's replaced by a couple people refilling hoppers and making sure someone gets called if it goes down.
Customer service Jobs are gonna be the first to go and the disruption will be shocking.
The kitchen is not automated. People are still preparing the food.
Whenever it McDonald's or some other big company it can't be taken well by the public. No matter how good it could be or groundbreaking, people will claim it's evil just out of habit.
I understand this isn't fully automated, but even if it was, this would never be "without workers". You would still need to supply it, to repair and maintain the machines, people to program and update the software. There won't be less jobs, just different ones.
Also, people don't get that even if there were no more jobs to do at all this would still be good. You just wouldn't have to work to get fed, to sleep under a roof or have access to medicine. It would just mean we don't require the labor anymore for producing to our needs.
I know scribes who are still griping about the invention of the printing press. So many jobs lost that we never got back. Innovation is the devil.
Exactly... never in human history has technological innovation brought about long-term unemployment.
Everyone wants cheap products made by armies of high paid employees doing jobs machines can do faster and more safely.
No need to disincentivice career. No need to match wages. Just automate everything. Make higher education free. Let everybody become an engineer to service the very machines that replaced them.
There’s literally nothing more automated about this than a regular McDonald’s.
All of them have those order screens. The only special thing here is they bring it to you on a conveyer belt for some reason.
Maybe that saves the kitchen staff a little bit of time but there’s really nothing crazy going on here.
I think it has been obvious that is where things are going for a while.
Anyways, as far as the low wage workers. The problem is, none of that you can live off of. Like back in the 60s you could legit buy a house with a yearly salary of a waiter. It wasn't a great house, but it was possible. Today you have to work 3 or 4 jobs to just afford enough to live.
If we don't get ubi or the end of money after a given point it really will be the have and have not.
They're not cooking those burgers in an automated kitchen.
To be fair, fast food jobs are terrible and nobody should have to suffer working in them. This is a good move.
It’s a video where the guy goes to the place and tries it, then instead of giving us his review he says “so what do you guys think?”
How TF should we know? You’re the one that went there. You tell us!
Incorrect, this just removes the cashier people, it still has the cooks to make everything. So, basically, self order.
Dude ordered bread and onions?
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https://youtu.be/dsI3MEDZTYI I think these guys are more on top of what the big news in AI has been... I doubt McDonalds makes next year's list...
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As long as people still have a job, I don't really care
Just pay them 15/hour and they won't be low wage service workers. Oh yeah, that's what got them here.
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White Settlement has to be the most Texas name for a Texas town.
Ok well now I know there’s also a place called White Settlement, TX
It's either this or higher wages. The current minimum wages are so low that your no different than an indentured servant. Since most are not willing to pay more for a burger I'm guessing this is the future.
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No one is talking about the price of items. If the items are not priced lower since they have far less people working there, then fuck this place.
One thing nobody seems to discuss: As we move into a post-CO2 future, we will not have enough renewable power (at least initially), to maintain the lifestyle to which we've become accustomed in the west.
Which means we need to use more man-power and less electric power overall.
Think of all the things that used to be man/nature-power vs. fuel/battery powered: lawn mowers, leaf blowers, toothbrushes, razors, washing machines, clothes dryers, bicycles, toilets, blenders, floor mops, cigarettes, cameras, window blinds, scooters, telephones, earphones, etc., etc., etc.
If we want to save our societies from climate annihilation, in the short-term, we need to triage what gets to use artificial power.
Considering the global, eons-lasting consequences we are facing if we don't get emissions down, energy triage is the most compelling argument for choosing humans over robots.
Fusion will solve this.
Every order is wrong. Everyone of them.
Ah, so they've stayed true to their business model even with these new advances.
Outstanding.
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WHITE SETTLEMENT?!!! Omfg
According to one of the other comments it’s to distinguish it from the Native American settlements in the surrounding area.
What's a white settlement?
why are muricans complaining? this is the capitalism they love so much.
Wait, there's a place called "White Settlement"? In TX? Must be Trumps favorite spot...
Don’t go to these locations so they do not make any profit at them
that what the Vax is for, to get ride of the labor force, they take the shot die, and those alive have robots now.
“It's the Pax. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works.”
To be fair though, it didn’t work on EVERYONE, now, did it. I seem to remember some people had the opposite reaction.
David, what the fuck
cjeam t1_j6hjxtw wrote
Still has a full kitchen staff.