Reported cases. What happens in Alabama stays in Alabama.

Those numbers vary so much from one state to another that I have a hard time believing any of them. E.g. is it really plausible that NY and NJ differ by almost 10X?

What an interesting reaction. More than double the number of children died from abuse in Maine 2021 than in 2020. https://khn.org/morning-breakout/more-children-died-in-maine-in-2021-than-recorded-before/. We should be outraged and ashamed.

At least we’re number 1 at something. Right?

Well this is sad and terrible news. It needs a big spotlight - hard to believe it hasn’t been reported before. Do we have any news people in the sub? Also found this https://khn.org/morning-breakout/more-children-died-in-maine-in-2021-than-recorded-before/. 2x the number of kids died from abuse here in 2021 than 2020.

What does that have to do with this post or my comment?

I don't really find this funny. Making light of a really serious situation, while also trying to deflect from the fact that this is clearly a major local issue. Have a little class

keep downvoting me you fucking children

Maine's high number is certainly a cause for concern. I think u/DifferenceMore5431's point is that there seems to be some odd geographical outliers in this data - New York and New Jersey have a massive gap in reported child abuse rates, even though those states are relatively similar in demographics. With that in mind, this might have to do with differing legal definitions of child abuse, or the relative funding and/or willingness of state governments to prosecute those cases.

At a glance, it looks like there might be an inverse correlation between population and reported child abuse cases? Many states with tiny under-18 populations like Maine, Alaska, and Montana rank in the top 10.

There are plenty of outliers in both directions (like New York) but I wonder what might inform a trend like that.

Don't forget reported cases aren't always abuse. Alot of the time it's false reports.

...only reliable if all states report abuse accurately. I doubt that they all do. I'm not trying to downplay Maine's numbers, even one report is too much, but as a nation are we really capturing the true numbers? We know that social services in every single state are overworked, but some states may be more overworked - and miss more cases - than others.

The point is your initial reaction is doubt and denial rather than concern and digging for yourself. Does that help?

It could just be that Maine is the best state at reporting and investigating child abuse

The data doesn't make any sense. I have no opinion about whether Maine is high or low. NJ and NY are similar states with very similar populations, you would expect them to be similar in this respect. Likewise WA and OR are showing as wildly different even though they too are quite similar.

I hear you and possibly, but I’m less concerned about the relativity and more concerned with our specific situation in Maine. No matter how you look at it, our number is too high - especially for the most defenseless segment of our society. If someone’s reaction to that is to cast doubt based on 2 highly urbanized states that have nothing to do with Maine, then I question that person’s misplaced. priorities and outlook.

People are surprised?

Kendall Chick was not the first and, as we have all discovered, not the last.

Abused kids are more likely to end up in SoPo than they are to be well cared for by that indifferent social services agency.

I don’t think they’re making light, and they’re probably right. It would make sense that the states with higher poverty and more rural areas have higher levels of unreported abuse. Who is gonna find out and where are they going to go to tell someone if they don’t have means and live in the sticks

Whatever the raw numbers, trends or rates, Maine does a piss poor job to looking out for the best interests of abused children.

>NJ and NY are similar states with very similar populations, you would expect them to be similar in this respect.

You would expect, eh? Well, clearly they are not. Maine needs to do better instead of folks saying why are they not as sucky as us?

This is a huge factor. MA for example which is also very high has more mandated reporting — ME is similar I would guess

The qualifier, “reported,” could make this a positive headline.

That’s reported! Kids in Maine are braver, so they report it.

Nice take. Love framing child abuse into positive headlines /s

Indifferent and poorly funded are very different. I know a lot who care but the need outweighs the funds

Yessssh, report and investigate.

And then sit on the thumbs.

This just shows me that the cases in Maine are getting reported at a higher rate than in other places

I feel like "reported" is important. Also, I wonder if a certain amount of it has to do with different states approach to DHHS.

One can still empathize with victims and question the legitimacy of the statistic. Trying to solve a problem using bad data isn’t helpful and with all of these things, especially when they’re extrapolated, it’s good to think about the mechanisms. For example, another way to read this chart is Pennsylvania has one of the highest rates of unreported child abuse, an even bigger issue than reported child abuse. Before you go white knighting on everyone, try not assume the worst of everyone’s intentions

Where do you get the idea that a lot of cases are false reports? What constitutes a lot?

What is more likely?

A. Maine is a shitty climate for children being abused and so therefore has a significantly higher rates of abuse than any other state.

B. Maine reports more child abuse cases per capita than any other state.

Also, is this a city thing? A rural thing? These numbers matter because it determines the solutions. Throwing money at every school or community is a waste of resources when this is specific to a certain location, demographic, economic region, etc.

Kinda not surprised, although there is always nuance to these things, like proper investigative techniques, and how well Maine is at it. However, you get away from the coast, into the rural parts, definitely a lot of rednecks with a lot of personal issues. Some are great people though, don’t get me wrong.

NJ is a smaller state than NY. There is more rural area in NY. There are a lot of differences between the states, I’m sure there are plenty more than what I’ve mentioned.

Maine is the West Virginia of New England…..

They are next to each other, but NY is huge and outside of the extended NYC area, upstate is very much like Maine

Uh... I think they mean that Mainers could be doing relatively better at reporting and investigating.

That doesn't in any way frame child abuse positively.

Well more research needs to be done for sure. Sh*t. It’s weird though, because we have one of the safest states in the nation crime wise, which I would not expect to see in populations with a lot of child abuse.

This is nonsense, they are extremely similar. NY has more somewhat more people but the demographics are extremely similar. E.g. from the census info for NJ vs NY:

• under 18: 21.8% vs 20.7%
• white: 71.1% vs 69.1%
• foreign born: 22.7% vs 22.4%
• college degree: 40.7% vs 37.5%
• lacking health insurance: 8.4% vs 6.1%
• poverty: 10.2% vs 13.9%

Nothing there explains a 10X difference in child abuse rates.

If you don’t believe these numbers, go work in a school for a while

What evidence do you have that "a lot of reports are false reports"? I will say, as someone who is a mandated reporter and has made many DHHS reports that reports are not alway investigated, that doesn't mean they are "false".

I spent nearly all of my teenage years as a ward of the state.

One of my foster brothers and his wife work for the agency. Rabid right-wingers who have long blamed foster kids for the situations they find themselves in. Estranged from his sisters.

The problem is systemic.

I think both are the case personally. But I agree that the phenomenon should be closely investigated and more data would lead to better policy.

New York and New Jersey aren’t that similar in demographic. New Jersey and New York CITY are and NYC definitely does a lot to skew any stats about the state, but there’s a lot of rural area too which seems to correlate

There are 10 million more people in NY than NJ.

I'm from AL & abusing your child there is the norm. I've seen many cases where teachers & even CPS pretended nothing had happened. So, you're not wrong.

Higher poverty and more rural areas? Like Maine? We have 6 counties under 50k median FAMILY income. Every county except for Cumberland, York, and Sagadahoc are below the US median. Couple that with high cost of living and you get 11.5% of the state living in poverty. It’s time to recognize we have an issue and do what we can to make things better.

New Hampshire is missing are they #2?

I believe that. And maine DHHS is beyond useless. My girlfriend and I have been trying to deal with them the past year trying to keep her son safe from her abusive ex husband.

If people really want the real number, it’s 1,390 confirmed child maltreatment victims per 100,000 children. 2000 kids are currently in Foster care supervised by the state. We have a problem, what are you doing to help?

Volunteer and donate to root causes of child maltreatment. Poverty, addiction, mental health services. Volunteer and donate to organizations that help our youth. Big brother big sister needs Bigs, your local food bank needs volunteers, and everyone needs money.

Nope, #41. And Vermont is #40. I wonder what causes the huge disparity between ME and the rest of northern New England, especially with the demographic similarities between the three states.

No doubt that’s what I said when I read this to it has something to do with it for sure.

I believe that’s the case. Main checks into it more than in most states

I've seen so many jealous exes call the state on people just because they were mad. It happens. I'm sure the statistics are out there as far as how many calls were made verse how many charges were brought up.

Mandated reporters are not the only people who call the state on people. I've seen it many times.

Yeah and?

Also something to consider: In Texas kicking your kid out for being gay Is not child abuse. Sending them to conversion Therapy isn't child abuse and sending them to unlicensed military schools isn't child abuse. but gender affirman care is.

Saying people don't call the state on people and lie is like saying people don't call the cops on people when they get mad. I'm sure the state has how many reports came in verse how many charges were given to people.

Hitting your kids isn't child abuse in Texas.

Also, The Foster care situation in Texas is so bad that an argument could be made that kids Might actually be more abused In Foster care than if they were left in their original also awful situations.

All or some combination of the above, I suspect. I’ve heard stories from rural law enforcement that would make your skin crawl. Kids kept prisoner and abused, often impregnated. All doors in the house removed. I think it is easier to isolate and control the abused in rural areas and people tend to keep to themselves more. I don’t think anyone said anything about “throwing money” at anything yet. We have a number of mandatory reporting professions, but education as to red flags is probably among the more important steps we could take.

Yeah I never said any of that.

I’m also sure that the addiction issues that Maine faces play a HUGE role in the statistics. Meaning that neglect/abuse is more likely to happen in a home where addiction is present, and DHHS is more likely to become involved.

/s means sarcasm.

As a Keystone Stater, I did not expect PA to be the safest (or at least the state with the least reporting)

You aren’t kidding

I was thinking something similar. It might just be that New England states have people reporting abuse at a higher rate. New York is also very high in that list

Also suggests why conservative states that normalize abuse or sweep it under the rug, or forgive it at church every week report it less.

Right. Indicating that you actually don't love framing child abuse into a positive headline.

But it still shows that you didn't understand the post that you were responding to.

No. You don't understand that I am saying there's nothing inherently good about Maine being the #1 state for child abuse. EVEN with a focus and uplifting good reporting practices, that itself is a spin which does* frame child abuse in Maine in a more positive light than without.

I think that would not generate any helpful utility in generating awareness or the public/state to take further action to address this devastating trend. Nice attempt at being a smart-ass.

As an attorney who has worked in the child pectection system I disagree. I'd say Maine certainly isn't perfect but we do a pretty good job.

I've represented parents and been a guardian ad litem.

Reporting bias, anyone?

Having lived in both states I’m just having a hard time believing there’s more kids in Maine being abused than New Jersey..

I moved here from Missouri. I think that word "reported" is much more important than the graphic implies.

Source?

Yeah, that’s what I did. /s

Most states have mandated reporting.

Also, the states at the mid to bottom include Washington, Vermont, California which tend to also have higher levels of state funding and mandated reporting. So, more reporting doesn’t explain it all.

No way is there more child abuse in Maine than Florida. The story’s I hear from people growing up down there yikes.

I find this worrying. States like New Jersey and Washington are at the bottom. Vermont is towards the bottom, and California is in the middle. These are not conservative strong holds, and are states that are known for good education systems and better social funding, and I would imagine more mandated reporting and training. If it were true that it’s just more reporting, then we’d see all the states with better social and education systems at the top and states with poorly funded social systems and education at the bottom. But that’s not the case.

I wouldn't necessarily single out Maine. It's a national problem.

This chart seems to track something else - like the system for reporting abuse. States that are next door and similar should tend to be close together if the figures reflect some kind of social reality and not something skewing the results.

Washington is 49 and Oregon is 13. Why would that be?

Alabama isn’t at the bottom, or even near it. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Washington are.

The states at the bottom are Washington, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania though…

Do you know if there are similar trends in other states for the year? I wonder if kids being cooped up with their abuser during lockdown contributed

That's so disappointing to know.

I mean… me and the majority of my friends grew up in this state in abusive households… so it’s not like I’m in disbelief hearing this.

Just a joke pal

It's because we're up in a cornah of the country where no one drives through. All isolated with no one watchin. It's really sad though

...these numbers are already adjusted for population. According to OP, 1.5% of kids in NY are abused and only 0.2% in NJ.

Maine has a mandated reporter program to work with children in any scenario. Seriously, to be a camp counselor I had to be a mandated reporter.

I think the availability to report skew these numbers quite a bit

The report doesn't say that Maine is #1 in child abuse. It doesn't say anything about the rate of child abuse in Maine in comparison to the rate of child abuse in other states. It says that Maine is #1 in child abuse reporting, which is a different thing.

Reporting known and suspected instances of child abuse is a good thing to do. I worked in youth-serving nonprofits for 17 years, and I had to make that call dozens of times personally.

Nobody is trying to frame child abuse in a positive light; you can leave the poor straw man alone.

What unique abuse would you be referring to that somehow makes it special enough to not expose. It isn’t normalized and every state has families in which children are afraid to report it regardless of religion or otherwise

"Reported". That means that more people are aware and actually concerned for the wellbeing of the children to report it. There is no way to know what we do not know about the actual rates of abuses in the states with a lower reported number.

Foster care anywhere is horrible for a child to go through regardless of a state’s political stance, the reason gender affirming care is abuse is because of the fact many of these children are being put on the same drug used in chemical castration and are going through “sex change therapy” which is permanent. These are choices in which a child/minor does not have the capacity to foresee it’s complete and permanent repercussions. Their brains are not fully developed enough to actually choose what is right for them and many of those who go through with the surgery tend to regret it years down the road. You have children who are being told they aren’t what they biologically are and it’s screwing with their heads, we are creating a generation of children who will listen to whatever they hear and believe it to be truth, this is sad.

NH lookin good tho nglll

Reported doing a lotta work here

I would imagine that's exactly what happened. I'd suspect spousal abuse was a lot higher as well. I remember reading about the rates being really high during another period of time but for the life of me I cannot remember what is was.

Look at the bottom of the post

There are very few words on this report graphic. They include "States ranked by rates of child abuse cases"

Thanks for your work. Keep up the attention to detail!

Also state definitions vary and there's not a federal source keeping track of it.

When it comes to child abuse cases we beat the rest.

whataboutism helps no one. plus, this is the Maine sub so it is about how it is in Maine.

[deleted]

Exactly, it’s important to note that Mandated Reporter laws differ from state to state. Also, in Maine all substance exposed newborns are reported to DHHS. This includes women who use marijuana or even certain prescribed drugs during pregnancy. In most instances, these do not lead to open child welfare cases but they do count as “reports”.

You are absolutely correct. I did some training a year ago on mandated reporting and if I recall correctly, something like 1/20th of the reports end in the guardian getting found guilty. Still too much abuse, and obviously they can't prove everyone guilty, but still fair to mention.

Listen, I’ve seen it all. If you suspect something, report it. My daughter brought home a teenage girl and she said she was being abused by her stepdad. I was shocked at first, because my daughter liked to exaggerate and tell tall tales. I sat down and talked to my daughter’s friend, and then I convinced her to go with me to the police station. This was in another state. She and I sat in a windowless room, for what seemed like forever, until they got to us. Eventually, it was found out that her pos stepdad had been abusing her, and she only confessed to my daughter because she was afraid of her little sisters being abused by her stepdad. I actually got called by CPS, asking if I could take her in for the night, until they could get ahold of her aunt. I gave her my extra nightgown and put her up on my couch. They took her away the next day. Several months later, I dropped my daughter off at a sleepover, and I stayed for a bit, talking to the mom. As I was leaving, I saw that girl. She was glowing with happiness and she and her sisters were doing very well with her aunt. Always believe a child who tells you that they are being abused.

It being traumatizing for any child to enter foster care does not mean it isn’t especially bad in Texas. Doesn’t really have much to do with their political affiliation.

The children aren’t being “told” they are anything. There’s a rigorous process with multiple layers of screening/therapy/teams of professionals and other people in a kids life before any kind of drugs or procedures are administered. And the % of kids who go on to regret this is extremely, extremely low.

I noticed you didn’t touch on gay conversion therapy. I wonder why that is.

Sorry, but I know enough Trans folks to know your "science" is nonsense and bigotry.

Gender affirming care for kids puts them on hormones that pause puberty until they are old enough to make a decision for themselves.

It doesn't castrate them. It pauses puberty and gives them time to think things through and go to therapy.

It's important to pause puberty because if they go through puberty as the wrong gender they end up getting harassed by bigots after they transition.

Reported does not mean substantiated.

Teachers are mandated reporters in both states. It’s part of my job to report suspected child abuse.

as someone who works in social services in maine i truly hope maine is not the best in the country because that would be fucking bleak

[deleted]

Your comment is factually inaccurate, states regardless of general political leanings, are spread pretty evenly throughout this list.

Gtfohwybs.

That was my first thought too.

I moved here from CO and I know anecdotes don't mean anything from a scientific standpoint but I have made so many friends, particularly women, who were physically or sexually abused as children.

what how can pennsyltucky be at the bottom

Could this be the result of better reporting?

Just because Maine has more reported cases it doesn’t mean all those cases are true. I had someone wrongly report me. Anyone can call and make a report. Just saying.

Maine definitely has huge rates of child abuse, there are some fucked up people & families living in these woods.

I’d be curious as to how this breaks down by county.

Indeed, it's everywhere. Many places in the world and even USA don't really prioritize it. Says volumes they don't regardless of how effective it is. The whole system needs overhauling or tweeking to say least if the goal is to actually protect not give an illusion of it. Easier said than done which why effort is better than none.

I think it’s a combination of amount of rural area as well as reporting. Maine is good at reporting and has a large amount of poor rural area. I feel like child abuse might be more common in rural areas because people are not so close to each other to notice. It also is more common with lower income house holds as food is more scarce and there may be other issues like drugs or alcoholism. There are not many states that have more liberal/reporting systems but also so much rural with lower income area!

As a retired medical professional this surprised even me.

Let’s dig into the data and see what we find then! Great idea!

Not reported ≠ not happening.

Yes people need to do better, but implying that something is not happening because it is not reported is foolish at best.

Good ol Maine

Vermont is very similar to Maine, and this is not the case there. I also think the impact of opiates in Maine is a part of this as well.

When cold and bored people will…..

I second this

I once remarked to my kid’s elementary school principle that the school was such a happy place. She said that’s because all these kids are wanted. I will never forget that. The way she said it. Jesus it haunts me to this day.

That is so sad, but the principal nailed it.

20 years ago DHHS was required to follow a federal order, yet they are still not in compliance. I wish I could find the info on this. I wrote a paper about it for one of my classes.

It is the court system to. I was raped as a teenager and they ended up giving my rapist custody (he was convicted), citing that I had the emotional capacity of a teenager. I fought for over a decade. Finally when my daughter was 17 my rapist was charged for sexually assaulting his step daughter, which he admitted to on multiple occasions over the last decade. My daughter was molested to. When she was three it was suspected he had molested her, but her speech was not good enough to determine it. DHHS didn't care because I was in the system as a kid. I'm working on a second masters degree these days, so its not like I'm a drug addict or something.

I am no longer a teacher, but when schools started shutting down during the lockdown, I worried every day about that very thing.

I just wanted to share my thoughts. I’ve lived here my whole life, born and raised. I live in a small town, and I, along with my siblings were horrifically abused as a child. CPS has been called on my abusive parent probably around 20 times. And each time unfortunately they did absolutely nothing. And now my youngest sibling(8yrs old) is dealing with the same bullshit. Im 25, and I’ve tried so so so hard to save her, and even try to get her to live with me. But everytime I’ve called it’s fallen on deaf ears. I see so much of myself in her, and that’s so scary. I’ve been badly sexually abused as a child, and it’s insane to me that nobody ever did anything to help us. I moved out, and had to leave her behind… shes such a broken child. Part of it, is NOBODY in my family will say anything. So it’s only coming from me, and CPS doesn’t take me seriously because everyone puts on a good front. My other sibling has been abused so bad she’s scared to talk to CPS and refuses because of retaliation from my parent. It doesn’t surprise me, because everyone I know in my small town has been sexually abused. Almost every single one of my friends, even including men, have been sexually abused. I do agree that Maine is really great at reporting it, I blame a lot of it on CPS. My parent never let me speak to them, and even when I called myself I never got a phone call back. I know there’s probably a lot of cases, but I just wish someone could have done something. And now every single day, I’m worried about what that kid has gone through, as they’re already showing signs of abuse. Not to mention the father is a sex offender and nobody cares and lets them alone with him. It’s so hard to talk about because I know there’s good people who work for CPS. But for some reason we’ve always gotten the shit end of the stick. I want to say to all the good CPS workers, thank you. You’re saving children from being a victim like us. And I do appreciate you. 💜

That’s terrible

People who look to the clergy for wisdom, or too a particularly old person are misguided. No one is more wise than an experienced elementary school principle or teacher. (or adjustment councilor).

Gandalf the Grey would be proud.

Agreed 💯

I have seen a child get taken away from her mother, who was living with her 3rd abusive drug addict boyfriend. Do what you want as an adult, but don’t expose a small child to your tendency to make poor choices. Then she complained about losing her benefits. No concern for the child, who she repeatedly left under the care of a known violent offender. He’s in jail again, and she’s living with relatives and the kid’s grandparents now have custody. Guess they should’ve thought twice about doing drugs and screaming their fool heads off, while living next door to a former Statie. I’m guessing he got sick of it and made a phone call.

Yup, and what you’ve described is more typical rather than horrific.

My meaning

The levels of child abuse among the native Maine population actually skew so high, that scenarios like parents on drugs or simply around violent criminals etc isn’t enough to actually warrant the DHHS to actually be able to intervene or do anything. What are you gonna do? Take them all away? Put them where? How do you tell a group of people that culturally what they are doing to their children and their baseline model for family interaction is actually highly abusive. There isn’t enough workers, resources or education to really start addressing this issue.

Maine has changed some with the expansion of the world in recent years and has gotten better since the 90s when I grew up, but still has a long way to go.

Yeah, I was pretty sheltered growing up, but I went to grade school with kids whose parents were so poor, they lived in a cement basement with a makeshift roof on top, until they could afford to build the rest of the house. On my school bus route in the 1970’s in the Winthrop area. One girl who was poor was bullied for wearing a used winter jacket. I was so mad, I made it a point to be friends with her. I really had no idea how poor some of my classmates were, because I never had to worry about a roof over my head, or having enough food to eat, and I now realize that I had a rather idyllic childhood, compared to other people. Then I lived in a large Midwestern city, where drugs and crime were ubiquitous. I’m actually more comfortable in a city like that than I am in the Maine woods, where you never know what or who you’re going to run into. I’m wondering if the mill towns closing down have contributed to this atmosphere, though the pollution came with its own price to pay. Adequate housing, access to broadband internet, and education, etc. I’m proud of my fellow Mainers who are taking on what seems like an impossible task, and I myself have struggled at times, but at least I had a solid upbringing. I could very easily be one of those folks, but for my random birth into a nice family.

Mmm you are bringing back fond memories of children picking on me for my clothes being too small, never having new shoes, winterjacket dirty and a hand me down. It really wasn’t my fault my mother was a developmentally disabled drug addict who viewed her children as a catalyst for her failure & shortcomings rather than small humans to take care of. Or when a teacher had a talk with the class to be extra nice to me because our family had moved into a homeless shelter :)

It’s nice you are able to see the disparity though, it’s lost on a lot of people with good backgrounds, family, upbringings etc, they cant begin to imagine the misfortune some people are being subjected too, I’m glad I was able to take my life in its young adulthood to an opposite direction and not continue the cycle of poverty & pain.

I’m glad too! My Mom suffered from a very bad bout of mental illness when I turned 13, and I became the “Mother” of the family at a young age. Cooking, cleaning, and taking care of my Mom, basically. She was in and out of mental hospitals for years, until they finally got her on a decent combination of meds. I lost one brother to alcoholism 6 years ago, and I struggled with self-medicating myself for years, but after that, I began to take my health seriously. Still not perfect, but I’m not drinking myself blind and crawling into bed anymore. Legal mj helps, just need a little each night, and I don’t feel like drinking or get anxiety attacks. Good for you!

Sorry for your loss and happy to hear you’re on a better path now, great to hear you’re not hurting yourself anymore, wishing you well :)

I looked at the report underpinning this chart. The authors say that and warn against doing comparison charts like this.

So one big check I did was against the child fatality rate. It showed Florida and Mississippi children were much more likely to be killed as a result of child abuse. So either those states abusers are way less numerous or way more fatal OR rates of abuse are underdocumented in those states.

I wonder how much of this is because we look for this sort of thing as opposed states like Alabama.