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About damn time. Thank you, Joe. Again.

They went and did when Bush-Cheney called. Then got stiffed.

Heard about this but I thought joining the military as a non-citizen is one of the faster and "easier" ways. How did this even happen?

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I have great respect for those who fight for our country. What I don’t understand is how anyone can not be a citizen of the US and serve in the armed forces?

There were at least three administrations involved—Bush, Obama, Trump. Some of the earliest cases were personnel who joined after 9-11 on the promise of citizenship after service. Apparently, the military failed to explain/gave misinformation and a number of personnel were deported because they never became citizens. Different flavors developed over the years apparently but some of it was from Trump trying to undo Obama’s program.

They said it was a path to citizenship to go to war. Like how long ago this country gave the deal of if you’re a slave and fight and live for a certain amount of time you can have your freedom. Military and government here have always used recruiting as a predatory practice to get people who desperately need help to basically volunteer their lives for some prize at the end and they hope the people die before they come calling for what they’re owed.

There’s a line in our military contracts somewhere that says anything the recruiters say to get you to sign up isn’t necessarily truth. They can promise you the world and it can disappear immediately.

"Service guarantees citizenship" springs to mind. Glad they got what they were promised!

My uncle is a Canadian citizen and served in two tours of Vietnam for the US as a medic

I was thinking how on earth do you get to be a soldier for a country and not be a citizen of that country. If we're accepting someone into the military, their citizenship should go through before that even happens.

Foreign Legions have been a thing for a long, long time. Urkraine has one right now.

Sure. And the idea has been questioned since ancient rome. If you are dying and killing for a country, it should be beyond question that you are a citizen.

I don't disagree.

I'm glad we finally did the right thing for these veterans.

And that folks is why you get everything in writing.

I mean irl yes, but if you show the military something a recruiter signed ad say they promised this they will laugh your ass back to your bunk

Lol that’s just paper and ink what makes you think it means anything legally?

lol youd be surprised how difficult it could for some cases. I had a shitty time trying to get my citizenship while in the military and know several others that had to go through way more trouble than necessary. And this was when they swapped over the time in service guarantee to as long as you are active service.

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A terrible betrayal, glad some of this is getting resolved

In writing doesn't mean shit to the federal government just look at how bad VA benefits are. It's cheaper to grind the meat and leave it to spoil than take care of the service members who get injured.

I'm sorry I'm not following here. Trump was trying to make sure military personnel that weren't citizens were getting deported? Sounds like him I just want to make sure I have another reason to be pissed at his policies.

Deportation of veterans is a shameful business. Glad, at least, some finally got their citizenship.

Most (if not all) of those deported committed crimes. When I first read about this years ago the article highlighted a guy who shot up an occupied (including with children) car and he felt he was unfairly deported.

We can keep these benefits and then quit anytime we want?

Yes. Unless of course, war were declared.

--sirens blaring--

What's that?

War were declared.

Would you like to know more?

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Why the hell you’re are fighting for a country not your own, unless it’s some highly idealistic kind of thing.

"deported veterans"

What the fuck are we even doing?

I would actually, because don't you have to be a citizen of a country before you can be in the military?

You have to be a citizen or permanent resident to enlist. PRs are trying to make it their country.

Are you saying the people in this article committed crimes?

Largely, yes. The article says the main guy profiled had a felony conviction. Now that could be a wide range of things; in a lot of cases it's drug related but in a fair amount it's violent crimes.

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Same for Japanese men who were interned during WW2... "hey we're going to jail you for no real goddamn reason at all but if you join our army and you don't die in the process, you can get your freedom!"

PR? Still, the order is all wrong. You should have political rights before you’re sent to die. I cannot comprehend it being the other way around.

TIL that non citizens can serve in the US armed forces

and then NOT get citizenship

I guess TIL 2 things.

join the U.S. military, non-citizens must be living permanently and legally in the United States. Non-citizens must also have permission to work in the United States, possess an I-551 (Permanent Residence Card), have obtained a high school diploma and speak English.

Undocumented immigrants are generally barred from serving in the military, though occasionally (especially in times of military need) an undocumented person might be allowed to join the armed forces in spite of this rule.

If you are serving or have served in the U.S. armed forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for naturalization under special provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

No you do not! In the US as far as I know anyone can join (maybe not countries we have beef with?) but after you serve your required duty you can apply for citizenship. You should get it no problem. However, if you committed a crime before you're a citizen you can be deported.

Many of these guys were permanent residents, green card holders, who hoped to get citizenship as one of the benefits of joining.

They got screwed.

They all deserve citizenship and their spouse & kids as well.

The US also screwed many interpreters, guides and other staff in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. They deserve refuge status in the US at minimum.

Certain political rights do not extend themselves to non citizens. (I know…sucks). Also remember that serving in the armed forces is a choice. All members are basic riflemen irrespective of mos.

Digging around all I can find is this same copy and pasted article. I want to know what he was actually charged with originally. I found some disturbing stuff about a guy with a similar name but I cant be sure its this guy.

Never should they ever have been deported.

This ham gum is all bones!

>They went and did when Bush-Cheney called. Then got stiffed.

Seems to be a recurring theme throughout that story

He banned Muslims entering the country. He separated children we are just now reuniting with their families. Obama had implemented a military employment plan that was tied to citizenship apparently. Trump tried to wash people out then deport them if I understood properly.

Yep. It wasn’t some recruiter telling them they could become citizens. It was the POTUS. Then the military apparently didn’t do too much to make sure their paperwork was in order. Or even bother to tell them there was paperwork.

I've been wanting and waiting for this for so long. You know that they, after serving their country and being deported, still saluted the American flag regularly afterwards? If you you're willing to fight and die for a country you're a citizen.

You just need to have a green card to enlist. Can’t be a military officer if you’re not a citizen though.

Mercenaries are a thing.

Ahh I see. I couldn't find anything on what the gentleman in the article was originally charged for. Most articles just say the charges were "irrelevant".

Personally I think its important information. I served 10 years with a ton of great guys. A majority of us were people of color and non native born citizens thats important too. A bunch of us were great guys and a bunch of us I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. But you cant just use a solider and throw them away when you're done.. Oh wait, thats exactly what they do even to native born veterans.

Because Republicans made the process so complicated in an attempt to make it discouraging.

I don't understand how they could be noncitizens and serve in the military... If they are willing to die for the country, and that country lets them in the service, how are they NOT automatically a citizen? Can they serve and be deported?? Honest to god never figured that was even possible...

I had a friend in high school who joined the Marines to keep his family from being deported and it always seemed so dystopian to me that he had to do that just so he and his family could stay here.

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It’s in the SOP to screw up all paperwork and screw everyone over as much as possible

We gotta find you a happy fact for today my dude.

Business as usual. You either live long enough to get deported after volunteering to possibly die for a country or you die after the VA drives you to madness or messes up your medications until they never have to deal with you again. ‘Murica

I don’t know why but “a terrible betrayal” sums up a lot of our immigration history in my eyes, and this takes the cake. So glad this was rectified even for a few. It’s a truly joyous occasion to get citizenship.

Sounds like Wagner... shudder

Isn't being in the US illegally considered a felony

I get the reference, but at the same time, it absolutely should.

Democrats tried programs to give them citizenship, Republicans scrapped that during Trump. Similar with the DACa kids.

You may not understand it. But most of us love this country, because we saw the before in our home countries. It's difficult but we do love this country. A shelter,a home, I wish I had the words,but for me as Mexican when I was allowed to travel I noticed how bad it is. I can call the cops,go to a hospital and even will be given free food,that's not the same in our home countries. First you pay ,and then you get help. That's it. This country took me in and I'll fight for it if needed. Idk if that makes sense.

Thx man, I found it.

Some kid played "flight of the bumblebee" flawlessly on a sax

fucking amazing

We had a Chinese guy in boot camp who literally got to America 3 months before hand. Literally didn't speak a single word of English, no idea how he was allowed to join. And I don't even mean because of his ethnicity or anything. The country doesn't have an official language, but the military sure does because everyone needs to be able to communicate effectively in emergency situations

Yeah, that's why you don't do legal stuff yourself (like writing or signing a contract without a lawyer). Contract in writing and isn't being fulfilled? That lawyer is going to cost the military a hell of a lot more than it would if they just gave you what you were promised.

Yeah I wouldn't say that they all deserve deportation. Drug charges are a pretty frequent source of felony convictions and deportation seems unwarranted in those cases. I'm don't think it's unfair to deny citizenship to those who commit violent crimes though. I have don't know what the guy in the article was originally charged with. I do know when I've seen article in the past that profiled/interviewed a couple of these guys, several of them had committed shootings and or robberies.

That's why I didn't say 'get an IOU.' Get a lawyer to write and read contracts beforehand, otherwise you're going to get fucked.

Except mercenaries aren't actually part of the army.

In writing means a hell of a lot, assuming it was done correctly (by a lawyer). Your lawyer is there to make it grossly more expensive and difficult to not fulfill the contract, such that their best/easiest/cheapest option is to capitulate and do what they agreed to.

I don't know enough to answer for certain. The main guy in this article had a green card though, so he wasn't here illegally, but it was revoked when he was charged or convicted. I imagine most of these guys had similar immigration statuses. I don't think an illegal immigrant can join the military. I'm not an expert though so I might be wrong.

I saw that! It’s pretty epic

Well when you end up committing crimes while being a US LPR you tend to get yourself in trouble and deported.

> “Whatever charges got a combat veteran deported are irrelevant,” he said. “No one deserves to be deported after sacrificing, doing the things these young men and I had to do. These young men died over there. They were destroyed over there. They were other things when they came home.”

I really wouldn't want someone who has a violent criminal history to get citizenship to be honest. If it is non-violent crime that does not involve crimes involving moral turpitude I don't have an issue giving them another chance.

Also not everyone who served did it honorably or is a good person. I worked with plenty of bad people while I served and deployed with them knowing they were not good people.

The military will just say the recruiter made a decision without permission and get away Scott free

Also no way in gods green earth would a recruiter entertain a lawyer when talking to a recruit, they would just tell your ass to get out of their office.

Reminds me of the late Roman Empire.

Romans: Hey Germanic barbarians, if you join our military and defend us for a few decades, you and your families will receive citizenship and land to settle in!

Also the Romans after the Germans defend them for years: Soooooooooo about that whole land and citizenship thing…… How about we don’t do that, sorry guys….

The Germans: Bro we control the majority of your military. We are just going to take half your empire you little shits.

Get a lawyer and go to the recruiting station, see if you get anywhere.

Only in the US huh 🤔

That's why these deportations were so effed up. Non-citizens serving in the US armed forces have long been told it's a path to citizenship. Heck, I was told this in JROTC over two decades ago.

so you're a non-US citizen and you do JROTC, then ROTC, then you're an officer and suddenly you're out of status and then boom... you go back to the country of origin on paper???

wtf is that

No. Illegal entry can be charged as a misdemeanor (8 usc 1325) but rarely is. Illegal re-entry after a formal removal can be charged as a felony (8 usc 1326) but again that's fairly rare and you more see it used in extreme cases where that wasn't the only crime, or in cases of people who repeatedly get caught doing it.

Mostly administrative grounds of inadmissibility resulting in voluntary returns or final/expedited orders of removal are much more common.

No. Illegal entry can be charged as a misdemeanor (8 usc 1325) but rarely is. Illegal re-entry after a formal removal can be charged as a felony (8 usc 1326) but again that's fairly rare and you more see it used in extreme cases where that wasn't the only crime, or in cases of people who repeatedly get caught doing it.

Administrative grounds of inadmissibility resulting in voluntary returns or final/expedited orders of removal are much more common.

If they were unlawfully present (regardless of entry method, so visa overstays and illegal entry) for more than 6 months or more than a year, and then departed the US, that also triggers administrative grounds of inadmissibility that bar later legal re-entry for certain periods of time, but would not be a felony.

Apparently you have to live in the US to join the US army - I thought it was just people joining the US army like in Ukraine or Spain. It made things a bit more sensical, still stupid they don’t get political rights - if you put your life on the line for a country the bare minimum it could do was to concede you full political and civil rights.

Specially messed up because, you know, the US is somewhat fond of war crimes and what not, but they actually have the power to just say fuck you to the International courts and protect its war criminals from prosecution. In cases like these, of non citizens being deported, it kinda opens the opportunity for them to get sent to an international court. Basically doing that government dirty work and then being thrown to the wolves.

My cousin is an American citizen, she has never lived in the USA, now she had kids with a Dutch man she married, because how the laws are in the USA she cannot ask for her kids to be citizens. Her father (who she has not spoken to in 20 years) is the one who has to request citizenship for the kids.

Trust me I understand your point.

Actually, if you serve in the French Foreign Legion, you WILL get French citizenship after a few years - if you want it. You can even get a whole new identity, papers and all.

You do realize that can mean an unwillingness to take responsibility for the consequences of their service? Traumatizing people and when they snap, kicking them to the curb?

Ukraine's has a similar program IIRC.

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You can have your status as a resident alien revoked in certain cases of felony convictions. It's more than likely most of these folks fall under that case. In order to serve or be drafted you need to have resident alien status (green card). This can be revoked as mentioned before regardless of prior service. Serving does not guarantee citizenship but can significantly move you along in the process. Happened to my dad and his brothers in the 60s-70s and several guys I served with who processed and got their citizenship while in service. The military WILL NOT put in paperwork for you, you have to notify your command and begin the process yourself through admin.

The ones that lived and had people advocating for them in the US did.

Lol you’re funny. You think the whole military gives a fuck what one lawyer thinks? Just google all the myriad lawsuits against the US military and you’ll get your answer.

Also, in the US the military has more money than god, they will spend your lawyer into the ground.

PR stands for permanent resident--a term for an immigrant who has legal status for an extended period of time but is not a citizen. That can be someone on a special visa or a green card.

Oftentimes, if a family is here on a green card, the kids may end up considering enlisting.

As a Mexican who's lived in the US I highly disagree. I can live way better here. Hell, even US citizens are realizing they can too and moving in droves.

You can afford rent with minimum wage, for starters.

I don't know how the boilerplate recruiting contacts work, but if the military isn't honoring a contract then a lawsuit can be filed and a federal court can take effective actions. In the end, it's all about the money. Your lawyers job is to make it cheaper for them to capitulate rather than fight - and given that it's always about the bottom line, they will.

As is their right. I don't know shit about the military, just how the law works.

Didn't say that, I said have a lawyer review things before you sign them - not take them as emotional support lol

You're not wrong, there are a lot of shitty lawyers and superfluous lawsuits. However, any lawyer worth their salt knows they will take the cheapest option, as they always do - in everything. Accountants don't give a fuck about ego, just the bottom line. More money than God doesn't matter when outspending you gains them nothing where as a settlement and gag order makes you go away forever.

You severely underestimate the military legal counsel lol

Either way it doesn’t matter is the point. It’s predatory, and sketchy and they can fully afford to turn people with resources away because ten people without means to hire someone to help them will be in desperate need of something a recruiter can promise them

Is it non-sensical, and even gruesome? Sure is. Then again, "non-sensical and even gruesome" could be the moto for the US and Canada's immigration and citizenship policy :(

Right, but that's the boon granted someone serving in THE Foreign Legion, you get your French Citizenship when it's all said and done.

These are cases where the candidates were later convicted of felonies. The amnesty they were given in exchange for service gets revoked when convicted of felonies.

They did.

Then, they committed (and were convicted of) felonies, which breaks the deal.

Look at the dates. Every man for whom a deportation date was mentioned was deported by the Obama/Biden administration.

>a number of personnel were deported because they never became citizens.

All of these men were deported for felony convictions, not because of missed paperwork.

>some of it was from Trump trying to undo Obama’s program.

Absolutely false. In fact, most if not all of these deportations were done under Obama (look at the dates).

>Trump was trying to make sure military personnel that weren't citizens were getting deported?

Who was President in 2009 again?

>Trump tried to wash people out then deport them if I understood properly.

You did not. Read the article. This program existed under Bush 43, the deportations were done during Obama/Biden.

>Democrats tried programs to give them citizenship, Republicans scrapped that during Trump.

This is flat false. This legal-status-for-service program goes back to Bush 43. The deportations for the men named in this article were during the Obama/Biden administration.

Read this article about Trump’s administration not even knowing how many veterans they deported.

https://www.salon.com/2019/06/13/clumsiness-or-cruelty-trump-now-deporting-military-veterans-in-violation-of-federal-rules/

You can accuse me of lying all you want. I am not impressed with an attempt to use one single article to cover all reported veterans through decades of multiple administrations.

Bye.

were they enlisted before or after they were felons

also... can felons enlist??