>Even in bitter arguments, they would call each other sir, or madame, or use the other’s respective title.

So, here's the thing with French: the language has both informal/singular (tu) and formal/plural (vous) forms of "you," which does not exist in English but is kind of a big deal in French. (Some parts of the US do kind of have a plural form of "you" with "y'all," but that's not relevant here.)

This poses kind of a big translation problem when translating French into English. One solution is to convey the respect of "vous" by having the character instead address the other by an honorific (like sir, madame, etc.).

I can't say for sure that this is what your translator is doing in all cases, but it's likely. Sometimes the translator will address their handling of tu/vous in a translator's note at the front. That's not to say that the characters don't also use honorifics in the original text, but it might not be to the extent that you're seeing in your translation (though they are being just as respectful, just in a way that can't literally be translated to English).

......But that interesting tidbit aside, Dumas was probably not going for extreme realism. He wanted his characters to sound smart and cool and to make everything more heightened and dramatic, to say nothing of the need to streamline dialogue to make it readable and compelling in fiction. Most of the characters in Monte Cristo speak much more eloquently then is historically accurate. (But authors do this all the time, in every genre, so it's not a bad thing.)

It was the way people of certain classes talked to each other.

Communication was much more formal back then, generally speaking. No child would speak to an adult without calling them ma'am or sir. No child would ever use an adult's first name. And adults who didn't have a close relationship would not call each other by their first names, unless one of them had a higher social status. Higher status people could use lower status peoples' first names.

Courtesy was key, especially in the upper classes - it was deemed that the better your conduct and manner of speech, the better your income/education/worthiness was. And if you were noble, your title was expected to be used - for instance, it wasn't unusual for a Duke to be addressed as Duke, not merely Your Grace or the title's location (i.e., the Duke of Cambridge was often addressed as Lord Cambridge, or just Cambridge among his peers and fellow members of his class).

Cultured tones, courtesy, formality - those marked the gentry and aristocracy. Rural accents were considered gauche also.

...just want to add, the date of translation makes a difference too... a book that was translated yesterday will certainly use English differently from one that was translated in 1900.

As an example in English, Pride and Prejudice is a good one. Men and women didn’t call each other by their first names until they were engaged and often still used sir or Madam even in a fight

It's worth noting that Dumas was paid by the line, giving him a reason to expand his dialogue a bit.

A lovely set of fantasy novels done as a Dumas pastiche are the Khaavren romances by Steven Brust. The Phoenix Guards corresponds to The Three Musketeers, Five Hundred Years After corresponds to Twenty Years After, etc. I haven't found The Baron of Magister Valley yet, but I'm told it corresponds to The Count of Monte Cristo.

One of the interesting things here is that these books are set in the world of the Dragaeran Empire, a setting where Brust has been writing his long-running Vladimir Taltos series for decades and which, um, do *not* share that writing style (these books have been described as being written in "first person smartass"). The Khaavren romances are supposed to be historical novels which exist in the world (and approximate time) of the Taltos books.

Brust *loves* playing around with structure and voice and the like. One book in the Taltos series, which revolves around characters from the two series interacting, is divided into three parts, with the first part written in the Taltos voice and the third part written in the Khaavren voice. It's really odd "hearing" these characters speak in the other style.

I feel like people were more eloquent in older times. Look at these quotes from boys who fought in the US Civil War, unless they were enhanced by whoever recorded them:

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/active_learning/explorations/children_civilwar/child_soldiers.cfm

>Day after day and night after night did we tramp along the rough and dusty roads ‘neath the most broiling sun with which the month of August ever afflicted a soldier; thro’ rivers and their rocky valleys, over mountains—on, on, scarcely stopping to gather the green corn from the fields to serve us for rations…. During these marches the men are sometimes unrecognizable on account of the thick coverings of dust which settle upon their hair, eye-brows and beard, filling likewise the mouth, nose, eyes, and ears.

-some random 16 year old confederate soldier

People were touchy about honour and respect and due acknowledgment of rank, so address was important. Also, it was still a time when people put real effort into speech - political speeches and sermons could go for hours (and people listened!), rhetoric was taught and had an effect, a reputation for wit could take you a long way, and there were venues (eg Parisian salons) where fluent argument carried great social cachet. So yes, people did speak like that.

I think people with more technical knowlege have given some great points, but as someone with more of a historical and less literary background I did have to engage a part of my brain more used to intepretating primary source texts. It helped Listening to it on audiobook (great public domain recording) but the way dialogue was structured took a bit of getting used to.

I think it would be interesting to see a more recent translation since this does kind of all go back to it being a french work originally. While more collequial modern langauge in a translation would make it flow easier, I ended up finding some of the 19th century-isms really charming. Especially the parts in the story talking about weed were kind of awesome to hear people talk about how dank Cristos hashish edibles were in 19th century parlance was kind of awesome

I am not a historian or a time traveler ( but I’d love to be a time traveler) but I’ve read a lot of old books. In those days they had very strong ideas about manners, about class status, and about personal honor. There were rules about how you addressed someone even in bitter disagreements. Insults were common but there were lines you could not cross. Not recognizing someone by their name and title was deliberately disrespectful and rude in a way that demanded “ satisfaction” …. In essence when someone crossed that line and insulted your honor the rules of civil society demanded you duel, and duels were deadly affairs.

Back when people could be polite and disagree.

I cannot vouch for the truth of this, but Steven Brust wrote a series of fantasy books that openly mimicked the Count of Monte Cristo. In his afterword, he claimed that Dumas wrotein this particular formal, redundat, and flowery fashion in no small part because his patron paid him by the word. This may have been Brust being cheeky, but I think he was seriouus.

[removed]

I love the dialogue in this book. It’s beautiful.

Also thinking about when Dumas was living, he was in an odd epoch where the old guard had come back to power after the French Revolution. The upper classes had every thing to prove and desperately wanted to keep the lower classes down so were insisting on status things like language. Dumas himself was not that secure underneath either with his father being metisse and himself being illegitimate.

Interestingly there is still a class of 'bourgeois' who live like that here. They have arranged marriages between them selves and still use very formalised language. They also keep the divisions between themselves of what lineage you come from too. There has been a move against it, especially by young women who can be living in very restricted circles with limited life options. Somewhat easier for guys of course who have the mistress option.

I didn't realise that he was writing for magazines just like Dickens, so like someone on this thread said about no wasted chapters, when you publish in episodes you have to keep up a certain pace every single time. No wonder he wrote a ripping yarn.

He was paid by the word when publishing it as a serial. This was a good way to up the word count.

Having grown up in the American South, this kind of speech is still in use. There's a fine art to politely telling someone off in a voice suitable for church.

What part of the chapter do you have in mind? Let me know a paragraph or two, and I will describe the original for you.

I think that extreme formality was also used as a way of indicating dislike and displeasure. Patronizing on purpose, with a side order of "I'm getting close to challenging you to a duel."

Yes in high society everyone was polite

Such a great book. The audiobook by Bill Homewood made it extra enjoyable on this account.

Stfu....I wasn't disagreeing you, pos.