Honest question, did we hit peak headphone a while back?

Submitted by Yammy_Lyfe t3_yfb4zi in headphones

I have been out of the headphones game for a good 6 years. I was at an audiophile show last week and none of the flagship or mid-fi headphones sounded any better to me than anything that was around 6 years ago to my ears.

I was thinking I might drop some cash on updating a pair, but decided nothing really impressed me. It made me, wonder. Have we pretty much reached peak stereo headphone?

I went home popped on my favourite pair and they just melted my face off like they always have.

This was my perception having heard most of the predecessors back then, what's yours?

For instance:

Have you seen a major leap forward in areas of headphone market?

What would compell you to upgrade today?

Have significant technical limitations been overcome recently that go beyond personal taste?

And how about personal taste? Was any particular pair a leap forward for your personal tastes?

What have I missed the last 6 years?

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Comments

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hvperRL t1_iu2nw1h wrote

We have been at the point where actual mixing and mastering tracks is the bottleneck for quite some time. Theres a reason why a lot of people settle on a mid to high shelf pair of cans and sell everything else

I myself am happy with my HD600 that is 6 years old at this point

177

AyeYoYoYO t1_iu2px4u wrote

HD600 will always be a great headphone. It has one of the few truly classic FR, and a classic design.

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lightning696969 t1_iu53zkp wrote

What about hd650?? Hd650 is bad headphone??

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AyeYoYoYO t1_iu593km wrote

HD650 is also a very good headphone. But I feel the FR of the HD600 is more universal, and more timeless across all genres.

HD650 is the FR for people who prefer more bass, and sensitive to 1k-3k, slight changes, but to me, for reference purposes across all genres, the HD600 is the superior FR, especially the rising slope from 1-3k

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Dust-by-Monday t1_iu2swob wrote

HD 600 is from the 90’s

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hvperRL t1_iu2tvtd wrote

Yes which proves my point. Just my pair in particular was bought brand new 6 years ago but likely was produced even a few years before that. With well engineered cans that you take care of, theyll likely last a life time. Some people here have posted cans from the 80s that used to belong to their folks

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L-ROX1972 t1_iu51xaa wrote

>We have been at the point where actual mixing and mastering tracks is the bottleneck

Thank you. This is what I came here to say.

I’ve been Mastering Audio for over 20 years and I’m honestly quite a bit disheartened by how poor the quality of current releases are today - and it’s only gotten worse.

In the last 20 years, I have seen a lot of seasoned Mastering Engineers leave the business. It is rare to see people sending out their albums to get mastered by a professional who only does Mastering; these days (in most popular genres) it’s quite typical for a release to be recorded/mixed/mastered by the same engineer and the results are typically underwhelming.

The current economic situation hasn’t helped either. Most pros who are still around today have had to raise their rates, and this has lead some to use “online mastering” (AI) for their tracks. A lot of times, the results are passable, but it’s not nearly the same thing as when you’re working with a human who might give you some feedback on things to tweak on your mixes, helping you to get the most out of a mix prior to mastering.

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ImpossibleResource68 t1_iu54ful wrote

Do you think apple and spotifys quest for all lossless audio will change this?

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L-ROX1972 t1_iu56boj wrote

Nope, not at all; I see them (major record labels & distributors) continuing to push for proprietary file types and digital snakeoil (upsampling).

The quest for having the best-sounding albums is non-existent (simply because that would cost more and take more time to accomplish).

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Nadeoki t1_iu6omfm wrote

Deezer, tidal and qobuz already exist for that. Yet they use 16/44.1 and some releases are compressed for the Loudness war's sake.

Spotify is also definitely not moving to Lossless anytime soon.
They have no reason to, most people who use it, do so for the Algorithm and the ease of access. Those that care about the quality aspect have already switched or use something besides it for actual playback. That being said, I hope they consider at least flac 24/48 at some point in the future.

If Deezer can optimize their recommendations and add a bigger catalogue, they might be more competitive and therefore force Spotify to up their game.

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ImpossibleResource68 t1_iu6pjn6 wrote

I think apple is pushing Spotify with their lossless for free. From what I’ve ready Spotify are having licensing issues with it at the moment and that’s the only thing holding it up. The announced it 2 years ago now.

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Nadeoki t1_iu6t6xn wrote

Flac is an open source project with no licensing fees or royalties so either you mean it just costs more to get Tracks in flac from Production Companies or they're having trouble acquiring the Storage Facilities needed to store the significant increase in size of their 90+ million track library. Not all of which even exist in flac.

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Raizau t1_iu42nyf wrote

So heres some of my personal audio engineer experiences.

  1. They were telling us to record in the highest sample rate possible in 2013 to future proof our music in school
  2. One of my friends is a sony engineer and he just records 44.1 24bit because sony doesnt really care about high resolution so neither does he. (At least at the mixing/mastering level, they are all happy to dumb hi rez stickers on everything though)

So lets put it this way. The industrial and acoustic engineers are pushing the tech for hi rez audio.(ez marketing and product value)

The recording engineers really dont care because the music recording division highers ups dont care.(most people are listening to ogg vorbis on spotify lol)

This is just my personal experience in the industry. There is a disconnect at a lot of big labels. They havent realized they can sell the music for double by just having the engineers change a check box at the start of the sesson.

Edit: i meant sample rate lol

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SteakTree t1_iu4g3p8 wrote

Bit rate is one thing. Having a higher bit rate lowers your noise level for each track. Useful for audio engineering and mastering. And even then well recorded 16bit files would still be fine with noise levels unlikely to be an issue.

For sampling rate, there is no need to go higher than 44.1/48kHz according to the Nyquist theorem.

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Nadeoki t1_iu6p2xs wrote

Nyquist theorem has been put into question more recently iirc.
DSD for one showing some ABX test results to not be entirely conclusive.

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Nadeoki t1_iu6oxzs wrote

But the community probably spending +500% that of average audio listeners cares about sampling rates and such. So maybe it would make sense to still make sure people actually release in high quality.

Some Soundcloud artists only have Mp3 LameV3 320kb/s releases and it really pisses me off to add them to my otherwise flac/DSD collection

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hearechoes t1_iu4t5fd wrote

I think the thing is, they can still just slap the high res sticker on the end to a file that was mastered to 24 bit 96khz+ and make the extra bucks, so what incentive do they have to record at higher sample rates in the tracking stage, which reduces the # of tracks/plugins they can use, increases bounce times, etc.

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atemporaryone t1_iu30epx wrote

I've been up and down and settled on 600 and 660S as well. Smart choice.

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ExiledSanity t1_iu7ukwx wrote

I think this is it. Great sounding recordings sound great on everything.

I like having a bit of variety, and I haven't really spent more than $1000 on a pair of headphones (and that only a couple times). But I spend a lot more time with a few sets in the $300 to $500 range, the HD600 being one of them.

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blastfromtheblue t1_iu6fmih wrote

my upgrade from hd600 was my airpods max. in terms of sound quality, it’s more of a sidegrade (although it is slightly better than the senns imo, even via bluetooth) but the convenience, features and even design were well worth the extra cash.

i think headphones will continue to get better, but not really in sound quality. and the same quality/features should become more affordable over time as well.

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HubbaMaBubba t1_iu6qvtk wrote

> it’s more of a sidegrade

Extremely controversial opinion lol

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Bickster- t1_iu2zz92 wrote

Headphones have been seriously stagnant recently, but the IEM world is going crazy. A-tier tuning has hit the $20 bracket, planar's are crashing the market, and moondrop exists. If someone manages to hit it big with a high-tier budget headphone, we might see a little more action.

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu311hk wrote

This might be a more interesting area to jump back into.

I've only really noticed about two names in the last 6 years, Sundara and Moondrop, probably due to the sheer number of references, I actually saw them.

IEMs would be an interesting area to research more. I never really had anything in that category, unless counting Baldoor E100 earbuds and some old sub $20 hi-fi when cheap models were just starting to get some respect in Ali-Express. I would imagine this area has made leaps and bounds.

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XxDankSaucexX t1_iu33qub wrote

you can pay 150 for a letshuoer s12 that would be unbeatable under $700 5 years ago (with a bit of eq)

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ResponsibleOven6 t1_iu3v6cj wrote

This right here. Get the S12 or 7Hz Timeless and be blown away by how much the $200 and under IEM market has changed.

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TheBatiron58 t1_iu5byna wrote

Also the etymotoc er2se or XR. Amazing for $60 on adorama and blow any cheap iems out of the water.

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Hebolo t1_iu5p14e wrote

Yeah. They are pretty close aside from the high treble basically where the Etymotics lack some resolution.

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TheBatiron58 t1_iu5q1j7 wrote

Wait really? I thought etymotics lack heavily in the bass department if you don’t get the XR. Sometimes it’s fixed a little if you have a really good fit

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Hebolo t1_iu638o9 wrote

Volume, not necessarily resolution.

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Hebolo t1_iu5nzzp wrote

Well, I agree that the S12 is insane, but the MDR-EX1000 had an MSRP around $500 and IMO may still be the best (I'm saying this while also owning and regularly using KSE1200 and LCDi3).

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Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu3cn6m wrote

Crap unnatural sound in S12 and “Timeless” stuff. Sorry. All the internet craze for chi fi is utterly idiotic. Try picking a real IEM to discover what sound could be like. An Onkyo E700M (sadly they stopped making it) can be found on alibaba or eBay for 50 bucks. It’ll a 500 dollar Senn IE400 out of the water.

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Bickster- t1_iu3hc4e wrote

most IEM's are better than the IE400

Also, if you want people to try something out, try to do it without smelling your own farts about your alleged superiority over the entire chifi market. I haven't heard of Onkyo, and I'd be happy to try them out, but you're not exactly giving me much to work with.

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UnacceptableOwl t1_iu3r0e6 wrote

Onkyo is a Japanese hifi company. They primarily make receivers, amplifiers, and home audio equipment. Very similar to Denon. They both just also make headphones. I have eyed the E700M myself, but I ended up going with the Denon AH-C820 for the dual drivers and they're just absolutely phenomenal.

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BadgerMcBadger t1_iu422mt wrote

>most IEM's are better than the IE400

what? i thought they were loved here

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JustAu69 t1_iu4jpm6 wrote

Most Sennheiser IEMs are not loved on this sub

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Pokrog t1_iu5cqir wrote

Idk people rant and rave about the IE300 and 600 and they're both just absolutely shit imo.

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JustAu69 t1_iu62veg wrote

I've heard neither, but apparently the 600 are pretty good. For me it's just annoying to see them insanely cheap in US while I have to pay the full price here in Europe despite these being German

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Bickster- t1_iu4kig6 wrote

It's a bit of an exaggeration, but the ie400 are very tonally unbalanced compared to its competitors

The ie600, on the other hand, is a very different story, and probably what you're referring to when you say this sub loves Sennheiser IEM's

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Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu5bubf wrote

IE400 has a bit of exaggerated lower end but it’s not “unbalanced” by any stretch. IE600 gets to a 1,000 bucks. At that price range the options are many. IE400 hits a very sweet spot.

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dittyboy t1_iu5ank3 wrote

The one that is loved and you see a lot is the ie600 likely. It was also boosted by a recent $200 off sale

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Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu5bpld wrote

It’s the dumbest kind of comments you will see from fanboys of KZ or S12 or Timeless kind of rubbish. IE400 has stellar sound, for those who actually understand music and audio :)

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Nadeoki t1_iu6qj4f wrote

Can you go into detail on "unnatural" ? To most people who've ever heard them they sound astonishingly good from all the reviews and listening tests on the internet (except for people who dislike harman I guess)

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Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu80zk6 wrote

“Most people” includes a large swathe of the world buying Apple, beats, and 30 dollar Panasonic earphones. To me these are muddy, horribly distorted bass, and many build qualities. The treble is often sibilant. Mids muffled. Get an Onkyo E700M from eBay or alibaba for 50 bucks (irs discontinued, so these are old owners or remnant stock). Then get Timeless rubbish for 200 bucks. Listen to the same music on both. You’ll see what I mean.

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Nadeoki t1_iu87elt wrote

notice how I said "most people who have heard them". I'm pretty sure Beats by Dr. Dre users don't know or care about audiophile brands or try their headphones

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Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu8mruv wrote

Same difference. Different type of cluelessness. A vast majority of those who are pleased with chi fi garbage haven’t heard proper audio equipment. They have a Bluetooth speaker at home and are upgrading from the beats or 30 dollar Panasonics.

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Nadeoki t1_iu8n2f6 wrote

Can you show me this kind of metric population data for these claims you're so confident to make?

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Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu8nz3r wrote

Yeah sure. Everything relies on metric population data 🤣 Move along. Enjoy your KZ 10 :)

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Nadeoki t1_iu8oiu3 wrote

Uhm, yes the kind of claim you made actually does.

I use SA-6 ULTRA's and NTH-100's but ok

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Bickster- t1_iu34z1u wrote

The two main $20 IEM's that everyone are raving about are the Moondrop Chu's and the 7hz Salnotes Zero's. I've had my Chu's for a while and they're great. Can't wait for something similar to pop up in the headphone world, like maybe a better tuned superlux hd681 or something.

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Solypsist_27 t1_iu39n0v wrote

Koss ksc75 exists though

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Bickster- t1_iu3gseb wrote

fair, but the superlux have stupid good soundstage/imaging for the price, and you can actually eq a bass response without making them catch on fire. too bad they're tuned to treble cannons.

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Solypsist_27 t1_iu3k4av wrote

This makes me want to get a pair and just use eq, one thing I don't like about my ksc75 is that the Soundstage is barely there, and it's mostly "passive" Soundstage

Plus with the autoeq directory it should be pretty easy to make them sound good if the problem is the tuning

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Ok-Psychology-1420 t1_iu47keh wrote

“Passive” soundstage? As opposed to what? “Active” soundstage? Please elaborate on this concept for me

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Solypsist_27 t1_iu4vu28 wrote

I've read someone online using these words and I use them to describe my experience, but that's probably something totally made up lol

Passive Soundstage is the feeling of the sound being wide because of the open back nature of the headphones, simply because of the fact that your ears aren't occluded and the drivers are further from your ear canals. For example, iems and closed back headphones lack this feeling, which I describe with these words.

Active Soundstage is what people usually refer to as "regular" Soundstage, and is the feeling of the spatiality of the sound despite the actual distance from the driver, ear occlusion and so on. Imo it depends on both tuning and technicalities like detail retrieval, layering and "imaging", and from a tuning perspective it depends on how the headphone/iems follows your particular hrtf.

My experience with the ksc75 is that yes, they feel open compared to an iem or closed back in the same price range, but though being open the sound feels quite "in your head", and there isn't much separation from instruments being in the front, in the back, closer or further away. Imo that has to do with the headphone struggling with layering, in a way that if two different instruments are playing at the same time, especially when there's a difference in volume, a part of the detail of the sounds is lost and therefore the illusion of space is compromised.

Instead, with the venture electronics monk plus, to make an example, the layering is much better and that in my experience results in a much more accurate Soundstage and feeling of space, even though the specific location of the sound (imaging) is not always clear, so that results in sounds in the "background" as sounding further away, while still detailed, and sound in the "foreground" not being affected by the other sounds around them, resulting in a clearer and easier to understand depiction of the music.

Another example of "passive" vs "active" Soundstage is an iem like the Moondrop Aria. Being an iem, your ear canal is completely occluded, and therefore they lack that "open" feeling of open back headphones or flat earbuds, though they make up for that with technicalities and tuning, that are pretty good for the price. That makes the sound still feel "wide", especially stuff sonically designed to sound that way, like ambient music, or well mastered orchestral music. The spacial image is more defined than the ksc75 Imo, though being closed they feel wide in a "different way", therefore why I started using this comparison between these different feelings still using the word "Soundstage"

Sorry for the wall of text, also this is just my personal way of describing my experience, and it must not in anyway be taken as something universal or that I expect anyone to agree with. There probably are people with better knowledge and better terminology who can describe what I'm experiencing better, this was just my personal take on the subject "Soundstage" lol

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Mert_Burphy t1_iu6hypa wrote

> too bad they're tuned to treble cannons.

good thing motorhead and slayer concerts attenuated my innate treble response in the 90s. Headphones too bright? No such thing!

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Nadeoki t1_iu6r3h7 wrote

Bragging about having permanent hearing damage lmao

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Nadeoki t1_iu6qtr2 wrote

or something with detachable cable (even balanced?)

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johnwclark t1_iu4ykec wrote

And you missed the QKZxHBB, also at $20. Basically the zero with some extra sub-bass and toned down treble.

The OP is correct, headphones haven't really changed much in a years. IEMs are the moving target.

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smallhero1 t1_iu37ka0 wrote

How is it possible that there can be so much innovation in tiny IEMs but so few in full sized headphones? I’m no engineer so I have no idea why this is but can someone explain?

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TRX808 t1_iu3nj07 wrote

Most of the IEM explosion is centered around Shenzen where the production time is very short to turn things around. They can buy off the shelf drivers (almost none of the drivers are proprietary), 3D print the shell, and keep prototyping without breaking the bank. Designing and producing a full sized headphone prototype is significantly more resource intensive.

Also I think many of these small IEM companies in Shenzen have learned from others and it allows them to churn out IEM's at a much faster pace because they have a lot of the basics down.

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pocinTkai t1_iu3cwf5 wrote

Well, you can't make a headphone flatter than flat. IEMs haven't been targeted to audiophiles in the past, so there were (/are) improvments to make in terms of audio quality. With oe-headphones you can just reinvent the wheel nowadays.

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Kn0thingIsTerrible t1_iu3d1p7 wrote

Precision sound quality on a small scale is exponentially more easy to reproduce than each relative size scale.

It’s a million more times more difficult to make a small scale speaker system than a high quality IEM.

−6

oballzo t1_iu4ua9i wrote

Completely disagree. You can DIY speakers, hell even design your own speakers if your knowledgable enough. And you don't need a $50000 rig to measure speakers. Just $100. You don't need to worry about fitment in every shape of ear possible.

It's not hard to design a decent speaker with low distortion. But it's extremely difficult to design a room with good accoustics. That's not up to the speaker designer though, ha! So the IEM designer has to think about your ears accoustical shape, but the speaker designer can ignore your rooms accoustical space.

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JustAu69 t1_iu4jiqt wrote

From what I've heard, it seems IEMs are easier to design than open back headphones. That's why once the general tuning (neutral + sub bass boost) was figured out, Chinese companies were able to jump onboard with low manufacturing costs and flood the market with excellent budget options.

Thieaudio, Moondrop, Harmonicdyne, Sivga have all made attempts at open backs, but none of them seem to be able to challenge the status quo of Hifiman and Sennheiser yet.

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FuriousGeorge50 t1_iu3c2q0 wrote

Basically Moondrop and Dunu are giving you 1000$ Monarch MKII tuning for 1/2 price.

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Cannonaire t1_iu2uzk0 wrote

OP, I'd be curious to know which of you headphones you were talking about when you said they "melted my face off like they always have."

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nahmanidk t1_iu40oxi wrote

It’s like when reviews say “I returned this product and went with a much better competitor’s product instead” without saying what that alternative is.

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4acdc wrote

It's purposefully omitted because Reddit is like hurding squirrels.

It's the PTR-703s with the head band mods. Objectively the best headphones ever made. Do your research and report back.

−13

Jurassekpark t1_iu4b896 wrote

Googling that name did not provide any relevant results, best I found was a "sodo" headphone that look like sony xm3 know offs basically.

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akeep113 t1_iu4ehhb wrote

alright this guy just went from interesting to weird. i'm out lol

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BASAUER t1_iu4hj6e wrote

PTR-703 don’t exist

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4j75d wrote

Okay, people, woosh. It's a joking dig aimed at someone throwing insults. I can't believe you all actually googled it. Read it back.

It's a joke (edit: in response to a direct insult) saying I have not posted the pair people are asking about because I knew the thread would perseverate and go off on tangents about just that...

...instead of responding to the overall concept being asked about with their own experiences and opinions.

It worked fine by the way. I have a whole thread of good faith responses to review.

−14

Capt-Clueless t1_iu6lw5c wrote

>Okay, people, woosh. It's a joking dig aimed at someone throwing insults.

No one is throwing insults. Someone asked a valid question, and you came back with a smart azz "joke" as a response.

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SupOrSalad t1_iu2pe5z wrote

Headphones can never be perfect, which means it will always be subjective. So yeah I guess we have reached a peak in a general sense, but there's always something unique that speaks to different people

don't take this serious, just having fun in conversation

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu2uljl wrote

That's a great point. I'd say even finding ways to offer a significantly large number people something they feel is subjectively good, in itself, is a fair thing to report on.

Two indipendent posts invoked the HD600 here within five minutes. Sennheiser clearly innovated something when they were released, even if just nailing a sound signature with that kind of staying power.

I'm a full 6 years out of date. Have some recent pairs shown promise as potential cult classics in the making?

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SupOrSalad t1_iu2v0af wrote

Other than the Hifiman Sundara and probably some ZMF stuff, it's still pretty much the same, and Sennheiser 6X0 is still a default recommendation

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu2xjut wrote

Yea a heard the Sundara and I have to say they sounded very good to me and good for the price point as well.

I suppose overall I just wasn't bowled over. I was still a little tempted to grab them with the discount and being told my phone or portable amp are enough, but decided impulse purches probably aren't healthy in this hobby.

I'll have to check out ZMF. I'm not not actually familiar with them.

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Qazax1337 t1_iu3aw6w wrote

DCA Stealth

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu91tfz wrote

Yea, I've been chatting with another poster about this in the thread. It looks very interesting. Thanks for the input.

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Qazax1337 t1_iu93pqv wrote

If I had the cash I would get them, but for now the Aeon 2 Noire will see me through. The AMTS in the Stealth is very very interesting and the first time I have seen anything actually pushing boundaries with a new technology.

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iub1qxb wrote

So many interesting things popped up in this thread. I've vaguely seen the ÆON 2 Noire in passing pictures, but just looked them up for the first time, that looks like another interesting pair at very attainable pricing. I hadn't actually heard of this company name before this thread. They seem to have a very interesting product line.

1

Qazax1337 t1_iucb8mw wrote

They really are. I was looking for some end game closed backs and went through the Audeze LCD XC, and the Sony MDR-Z1R before settling with the noire. It's like a closed back that doent sound like a closed back. Watch the DMS review on them on YouTube if you have the time

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GamePro201X t1_iu34bta wrote

Focal Clear is not being manufactured anymore, but it's definitely super popular (you'll see at least 1 post every 1-2 days about it on here)

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halfanothersdozen t1_iu2y3wj wrote

Bluetooth is slowly crawling along. I know it's not what people in this sub want to hear (heh) but I think it will get good enough to get to audiophile quality in a few years, especially with proper components in the receiving end.

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chunkyfen t1_iu30elv wrote

Listen, 990kbps is plenty of quality for me!

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Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu2zr13 wrote

Are there still legitimate technical issues with Bluetooth? I sort of just assumed that would have been worked out by now.

Is the bottle neck related to transfer speed, or something else currently?

1

halfanothersdozen t1_iu32roj wrote

Well we can do gigabit wifi that can stream 4k Netflix to several screens at once but they're trying to squeeze the tech for audio into objects the size of airpods, batteries and drivers included. To be honest the hifi community hasn't truly pushed for the wireless space and so it has been optimizating for consumer products, but really the technology is there. It may or not be Bluetooth that does it but the non-blueooth options all still have problems for some reason. Eventually the shit's gonna click.

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blargh4 t1_iu30fl4 wrote

With the current specs Bluetooth's theoretical best-case data throughput (accounting for protocol overhead) is marginal for lossless CD-quality audio, and in the presence of interference/weak signal strength you don't get best-case throughput. And you would basically have to have the radio on the whole time, which would brutalize your battery life (especially with small earbuds, where you just have no space for a bigger battery).

4

NoDonut9078 t1_iu40j0u wrote

Best and lowest power option might be a trick from old iPods, throw some flash storage in each ear.

Instead of anti skip, it just keeps full bitrate songs

2

AntOk463 t1_iu3ayq5 wrote

I think Dank Pods explained this the best. High quality audio has existed for decades, they aren't making huge innovations in sound quality anymore, they are making innovations to comfort and the listening experience. Modern headphones sound as good as old headphones, but probably have features that the previous ones didn't. I guess innovations have been made to try new things in the pursuit of better sound. I know the new Sennheiser IE 600 are 3D printed and are able to use a very interesting internal housing design which improved the sound, and that design is only possible because of 3D printing. Also look how far bluetooth headphones have come, I know for a fact modern Bluetooth headphones are better than Bluetooth headphones from 6 years ago.

Also I see this with phones as well, they have gotten so good that there is no additional point to improve. Around 2020 all smartphone had realy good cameras, from cheap phones to expensive phones, Android or Apple, every phone has an amazing camera, so now in smartphone ads it's features. Samsung talks about their 8K camera, their 100x zoom, Google talks about their unblur feature and object eraser, even Apple talks about their Adobe HDR and filmmaker modes. They all know saying we have a good camera isn't enough anymore. And in terms of hardware there has also been a limit reached. The last 3 years of Samsung and iphones have had no changes, the phones are basically the same as each other and there is no reason to upgrade to a new one. And this is someone know knows and cares a lot about this and all the small details involved. That's why people care so much about folding phones, it's something genuinely new and exciting.

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6ixpool t1_iu3m11h wrote

Just to add, modern tuning for gear has also improved. Harman target headphones are much more enjoyable to listen to and sounds very "lifelike" despite the technical capabilities of the drivers being the same.

9

Nadeoki t1_iu6q5ul wrote

Right about most things.
Except the fact that Smartphones hardware changes. New Processors, New Optical Sensors in the Cameras, new SSD's (with higher capacities and faster speeds)
This is especially going to keep going as Qualcomm is about to step their toe in the Desktop market, essentially giving them potential increase in market share for Laptops.

Giving them opportunity to invest more in making efficient processors that could improve future phones.

Things that are missing from all Smartphones today are
- 2TB+ Storage (already possible with m.2 ssd's about the size of an SD card.
- gpu's capable of handling all the Mobile Ports companies have been bringing to the market (lot's from China here) rn setting things to max graphic settings is just not feasable for prolonged time (given battery consumption and heat).
- AV1 encode/decode (this is very important for the next 2-5 years for everything video playback/production)
- Bluetooth (will probably see upgrades past 5.3 aka LE) within a few years
- better wifi chips (come out annually so there's always improvement)

2

AntOk463 t1_iu6r2zf wrote

To basically everyone, these aren't going to make a noticeable difference. Yes I know every ear and every new processor is faster and better than the previous one, but it's very minor and the only was to know the difference is by running a test or comparing them side by side.

1

artfuldawdg3r t1_iu319ru wrote

This is just me, but I feel that Stax and hd800 used to be way more affordable and I haven’t found anything I like more. So yeah, we hit peak headphone.

23

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu34uzu wrote

I've always personally loved Lambada and Koss Esp-950.

I definitely put an emphasis on an amazing high end, and less so on bass quantity. So those just make all the sense in the world to me.

The HD800 were also great for me, but I haven't heard the 800s

5

blargh4 t1_iu2va0e wrote

Well, there's only so much you can do with a passive speaker driver in a plastic cup. I suspect audiophiles will resist it and it'll probably be beyond the R&D budgets of most audiophile brands, but I think the next frontier is headphones with various integrated electronics and DSP to do things you can't purely in the 2-wires-into-1-driver realm. There's some headphones now with microphones that point towards your ear to dynamically EQ the sound, seems like an interesting idea; ditto deriving a personalized HRTF from a 3d scan of one's ears.

21

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu2ykuu wrote

I suspect you are right.

I really have no listening issues with it, if it offers an experience I like, but I strongly fear software dependencies and vendor lock-in, subscription add-ons etc.

That would be a ripe field to sneak software into being that the output is intangible and very abstract, they just need to claim we are paying for software to improve the sound stage, 3D effect or whatever this month.

Much easier to sell than physically disengaging a moto that drives the car sunroof we paid for and tangibly experience being disabled.

6

AyeYoYoYO t1_iu2pksq wrote

2013-2017 was peak open back headphone. Many of the best big engineering leaders folded or got bought out.

Sennheiser and AKG are husks filled with styrofoam now. The HD800s and AKG K812 were the final peak offerings from both of them.

Most of the newer high end stuff is very hobbyist-designed/not as impressive. Focal shows tremendous promise though.

10

JustAu69 t1_iu2rhpp wrote

I'd argue there are numerous breakthroughs. We now have ribbon drivers, AMT drivers, Dan Clark's metamaterial tuning system, high quality planars available are reasonable prices etc.

13

audioen t1_iu2zy5j wrote

My suspicion is that all of these changes -- while welcome -- actually amount to close to imperceptible marginal improvements. It is not like existing technology, even down to dynamic drivers from decades ago, couldn't to almost all of the same things, and almost as well. Hell, I bought my first pair of HD-600s 20 years ago and people still use them and think they sound fine.

Magnetoplanar technology is probably the point where I personally stop caring about sound quality improvements as far as the drivers go, because measurements of such a system indicate that they are already practically perfect, whereas dynamic drivers tend to struggle with distortion at low end if they were to play at flat level, let alone at the boosted Harman target level.

To me, it is a bit like in the 80s/90s when PC soundcards reached 44.1 kHz and 16 bits, and in practice reached a level which largely holds today, and to which only very slight improvement is possible in practice.

I think it is okay for technology to peak. It all reaches level of "good enough" sooner or later.

8

JustAu69 t1_iu4mex0 wrote

Yes, I agree these are not particularly revolutionary. Different driver types do not guarantee a better sound, just different qualities.

The Acoustic Metamaterial Tuning System in my opinion is very clever. Although I am not qualified to explain it in detail, eliminating standing waves will certainly reduce interference and allow for a FR more compliant with the Harman Target. If you are not willing to EQ, this seems to be the solution to a near perfect frequency response. In fact, the legendary Axel Grell (he designed the HD600 HD800) had high praise for it.

In my opinion, we have hit a plateau in terms of improving subjective sound quality. There is nothing new that guarantees better sound.

If we want progress we must put research into what we perceive as good sound and try to find physical metrics that are correlated and fine tune the headphones. Personally I don't think the FR and THD tell the whole story, and neither do the manufacturers. I think what's going on right now is that people know what to do to make headphones sound nicer without understanding precisely how it works. If you took a pair of Hifiman Susvara and AKG K361 and measured them, you wouldn't be able to tell one sounds so much better than the other.

2

Toronto-Will t1_iu2ug6y wrote

I recently picked up some Kanto Tuk bookshelf speakers that have AMT tweeters, and holy shit do they sound amazing (specifically the tweeters, because there's nothing really remarkable about the bass). I haven't tried a headphone with AMT drivers, I think those are pretty rare. Of course bookshelf speakers have some advantages over headphones with the wider staging, but it's now my favoured way to listen to music, it sounds so damn good.

3

unuselessness t1_iu31nnv wrote

I’ve the TUKs with the Kanto boxed subwoofer. It adds sub bass accordingly.

1

Toronto-Will t1_iu352ms wrote

I have that on my Amazon wish list if it goes on sale, but for the time being did movie my tv stereo sub (a cheap one) over to the Kanto. It does fill that gap in its FR nicely. I live in an apartment though, I try not to crank bass out of respect for my neighbours.

1

GamePro201X t1_iu3fq0p wrote

>I haven't tried a headphone with AMT drivers, I think those are pretty rare

HEDD Audio's HEDDphone is an amazing headphone

if you ever are able to audition it, do it

1

VinnyinJP t1_iu4068s wrote

Is there a good write up anywhere about how AMT drivers operate? I confess it’s my first time hearing about them and I can’t find much info. Looks like a ribbon tweeter, just visually.

1

Xjek t1_iu48n4s wrote

Would they be good for general pc use as well? Like gaming etc? Would the sub be needed at all?

1

Toronto-Will t1_iu4digf wrote

I would not use them for gaming instead of headphones. I just really like them for music. And yes, a sub helps a lot.

1

AyeYoYoYO t1_iu3egnz wrote

You misunderstood my assertion.

I meant no more innovation from the big buy outs…. Senn & AKG haven’t made any significantly great steps forward since their buyouts.

1

MYNAMEISNOTSTEVE t1_iu3t1jf wrote

Akg has been owned by Harman for a long time now. The 371 is also still basically unbeatable in its price bracket.

1

DWW256 t1_iu2v63r wrote

That's very well-tuned husks filled with styrofoam to you! ahem.

3

AyeYoYoYO t1_iu36yw9 wrote

Lol

No I mean the companies themselves are husks of what they used to be.

Not that the most recent, cheaply made Senn/AKG stuff is that bad, it’s still pretty decent, but a huge step down in QUALITY and INNOVATION from just a decade ago. Less of the former and NONE of the latter.

1

Upsetdadgabe t1_iu2y7x0 wrote

For me it’s more of a taste thing. I like to hear different types of headphones to have different experiences.

5

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu98m6v wrote

Yea, I've always loved a sort of far out degree of variety. Full disclosure, I also don't really care about chasing a perceived, perfect target. If it sounds good to me, I'm more than happy.

I even love lots of wonky things like Koss KPH30i, Porta, Esp-950, Original Grado SR60, PS500, etc., stuff I think lots of people would turn their noses up at.

Years ago, one of my many favourite pairs use to be the original closed back AKG K550 with a very particular Reel to Reel amp repurposed to act as a powerful headphone tube amp on digital sources. To me, it was just utter magic. So much coloration of clean audio signal, but just blooming, full-bodied and expansive sounding.

I'm also into all the HD6XX and R70x stuff which I guess are popular but less purist focused. The tonality crowd which I'd like to find more of.

I've heard masses of audiophile headphones over a couple of decades and owned/heard loads of things people would think of as more 'accurate' but at the end of the day, I still like variety and exploring literally everything. Same with audiophile home stereo equipment and vintage audio.

I admit I personally found the flagship market a bit stuffy and dull this round, way more than what felt like a big variety in the past. Although I haven't heard them all, so I shouldn't generalize fully. It's just, are they really going to trounce previous $1000 pairs with these $5000 sets? I feel like it's very incremental gains and personal taste more so at this point. But I'm open to other viewpoints and experiences.

I was fairly impressed by the Lower tier Sundara at their price point, but again the gains from last generation didn't really pop out that obviously to me. Maybe if I AB them or spent more IME with them it would more. But tuning/tonality wise they didn't necessarily have a distinct personality I'd jump on either, very nice, but not something that grabbed me.

That's why I'm curious what others feel about it. I probably shouldn't have invoked the flagships because that's not really what I'm after. It's more so, what do people personally feel was a step forward for them, even if it's something highly subjective and personally interesting.

Are there some things you have come across on the last 6 years (or any time) you you really love? I'd love to hear about anything!

1

LSG4M3R t1_iu3ivwd wrote

IEMs, especially Chinese IEMs. In my opinion, analog audio technology has reached its 'good enough' level long time ago, so now it is all about making it efficient.

IEMs has been flourishing recently, with two perspective. One is high-end and the other is 'cheap but good'. Chinese IEMs are in both group, and doing very well. Other major audio manufacturers are also doing it but not as fast as them.

Headphones seems like reached its 'okay... what now?' status. However, wireless headphones are different story. It used to be sound okay and reasonably priced but now they are trying to be high-end.

4

superdeedapper t1_iu4c8s0 wrote

Guys, OP is trolling. Move along.

4

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4h9d8 wrote

No I'm not. And what you are probably referring to is a perfectly fair response a I gave to a condescending and insulting post.

I'm going down this list quite seriously. The post is about an overall concept and others experiences, not that spesific headphone. My preference was omitted purposefully.

I'm happy to read and respond to people discussing in good faith here.

0

dfiled t1_iu4z1yu wrote

Disagree with most of these responses. Huge gains are being made with dynamic damping systems (eg ZMF Atrium) and the sound quality and thickness of planar magnetics (LCD-5, Susvara). However prices have gotten ridiculous so these innovations are out of reach for most people.

4

JustAu69 t1_iu2rqln wrote

What would compel me to upgrade is that fact that I don't currently own a pair of flagship headphones and I do intend on owning one at some point

3

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu2vrt7 wrote

That's cool, what would, what you consider buying? Or want to demo?

2

JustAu69 t1_iu4kygd wrote

Right now, I'll probably get some new IEMs first since these days I mostly listen from my phone. I am looking at Thieaudio Oracle Mk2 (Thieaudio is a relatively new Chinese brand that makes excellent IEMs) , Dunu SA6 Ultra, Moondrop Variations etc.

As far as headphones go, in the short term I won't be able to afford a flagship, so I will be looking at some interesting mid tier options. I want to get an HD650 just to hear its famous mids. The Ollo S5X look interesting to me. Avantone Planar could be good. Definitely want a pair of Verum Audio One Mk2 when production in Ukraine can continue. Interested in Moondrop Venus as well, it will be their first planar.

I am most likely going to get a pair of Hifiman HE1000V2 due to the price cuts (they are about 2000 right now). I am interested in demoing the ZMF Atrium, Caldera, Dan Clark Expanse, Audeze LCD5, Warwick Bravura etc.

2

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iub0gwv wrote

I'd definitely suggest hearing the HD6XX series and R70x while at it. I've had the 600, 650 and R70x and all are long time favourites. I believe the tonality and midrange are very nice on all of them, for me personally anyway.

I heard the flagship Hifiman and Audeze. They were quite good. As the post states, I didn't get my hair blown back from what I remembered of last gen flagship, but they are very absolutely impressive. Those prices though. Wowzer. $2000 is getting bit more attainable at least.

Still, there is something about a nice flagship. I owned two when on average they were mostly just breeching the $1000 range, but nothing recently. I completely understand the draw though and the engineering of the chassis of these new offerings is chef-kiss level no doubt. Have you had a chance to demo t the pairs you are interested in?

The expanse look amazing. I'm really interested in a closed back acting like an open back concept. That's inovaton I hope continues.

Haven't heard about Warwick yet, I'll look that up.

I'm really interested in the new IEMs people are raving about on here. Driving something great out of a phone or small portable DAC would be so convenient.

You named a bunch of things here I need to look up. I really appreciate all the name drops. This thread has been a good, what's-what of headphones over the last 6 years. It's all very interesting to catch up a bit.

1

Morphon t1_iu3108p wrote

The IEM world has seen tremendous innovation in the last couple years. Open back.... dunno. That seems like a much harder market.

3

aasteveo t1_iu3e4zg wrote

Let's see, when did the HD600 come out?

3

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4hpmi wrote

More than 6 years ago.

They were definitely a great headphone. What about the HD600s or whatever the newer versions were? Did they change much?

1

Zulogy t1_iu41jys wrote

I’m not a huge audio person but once I got my first dac/amp and HD 6XX’s, it was end game for me. Sometimes I think about buying others but its perfect for my ears.

3

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4ejy3 wrote

Yea, I bought a couple of flagships back in the day before realizing I prefer a bunch of mid-fi just as much. The HD6XX are definitely among my favourites. The R70x also from that vein.

I would be curious to know what from the last 6 years or so has come along with that beautiful tonality people always rave about.

3

Zulogy t1_iu4f0y7 wrote

Yeah I don't understand the hype either I think you are completely right! I'm looking forward to seeing how the industry implements bluetooth options. Would love to have hifi wireless headphones one day. It's getting close!

2

brg6 t1_iu342up wrote

From what I have been observing, The sound quality of headphones is pretty much at peak for the last 10 years or even more.

Most of the developments have been with portable stuff. A bit with IEMs and much more with Wireless headphones. Some of these wireless stuff is really worth looking into. The performance has got so much better that the convenience makes it very well worth to give up on the slight edge in sound quality that the wired ones still have. The wireless is still not at its peak though and is continuously evolving.

2

plumpudding2 t1_iu3jj77 wrote

They're not everyone's cup of tea but Dan Clark has been really innovating with his Stealth and Expanse headphones. The acoustic metamaterial tuning system is true innovation in the headphone world imo, and the Stealth is the first closed back to sound as open as a small staged open back.

2

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4m8rp wrote

This sounds really interesting. Have you heard a pair?

1

plumpudding2 t1_iu4pqhu wrote

I own a pair! Best closed back on the planet imo, and really competes with ToTl open backs. However you need a properly powerful amplifier for them, on some people's heads bass seal is an issue, and some might just not like the tonality. So try before you buy!

2

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4qlj1 wrote

This is very interesting. Yes, for sure I'm all about TBYB with so much subjectivity, but at the same time, closed backs that preform like open backs sound enticing to look into.

What do you run them on, and what's the isolation like for people near by?

2

plumpudding2 t1_iu4u9fv wrote

The fact that they're closed back sold it for me too, during daytime it can be quite noisy with neighbors or street traffic and then the isolation it provides is a godsend.

I run them on a Ferrum Oor + Hypsos combo which I'm veryhappy with. The designer has stated they'll perform at their best with at least 500 mW at 23 ohms, which can even be reached by a high quality portable amp. Some people swear that you need Susvara tier amplification for them to shine though..

I also should mention that I've been recommended low output impedance tube amp pairings to add some euphonic distortion back in, as these headphones have less distortion than some dacs or amps.

Isolation is excellent, if you play at ear bleeding levels some sound might leak out, but in my own experience absolutely no sound leakage at normal listening volume.

3

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu55hzs wrote

Thanks for all this great detail. I'm going to have to look up these amps and get myself up to date this weekend.

I didn't really ask about what's turning heads as far as amplification in this thread, but ai probably should have.

These headphones look pretty awesome, and more the kind of innovation I was hoping to see at the show.

I'd like to be able to sit in the same room as my partner while listening without it buzzing in her ears. Since I don't listen loud that could certainly work.

The last fully closed backs I had were the original AKG K550, and original M-50... they just get older from there. LOL. So that's an area I'm way more than 6 years behind. Those definitely kneekaped the soundstage, although I'd argue the K550 really made a good early attempt to open up the stage more then most had.

I also feel like that's a critical area for companies to innovate in if they can get an open feeling sound. It's amazing that we still think it's normal to project the sound all over the place from a personal listening device.

I also love something that responds well to tubes, so many interesting aspects here. Of course it would come down to liking the sound, but it's definitely a pair to research and try out.

I appreciate you taking the time to tell me about them.

1

CeeBee2001 t1_iu3lnvq wrote

I think Sennheiser got 99% of the way there with the 6 series TBH. They are so much more than many could ever want or need (outside of forums like these, of course!)

2

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu4lrs5 wrote

That seems to be echoed a lot here. I'm not sure it encapsulate the whole picture, but functionally for me, like I mentioned elsewhere, I could coast on some HD600, 650 or R70x for a long long while and still listen to these three regularly. That tonality goes a long way for me with making music beautiful and working with all levels of recording quality.

From a functional standpoint it's hard to improve on that. I'm curious though what has tried to go in that direction in the last 6 years.

While I do very much respect the excellent performance/price point of something like Sundara as well when I heard it, I didn't necessarily feel blown away from previous offerings. Of course I didn't have older pairs for direct comparison on hand at the show.

I'm very open to finding new and interesting things, but the flagships definitely didn't leave a lasting impression this round. For me personally. I'm sure lots of people love them at those prices.

1

MashMayoru t1_iu5afb1 wrote

Sadly 95%+ of the people on the sub have heard an extremely small portion of whats out there and asking a question like this will mostly just yield hd650 = best headphone even though it couldn't be further from the truth.

As someone that's heard pretty much everything from 10$ to 30000$ it's certainly safe to say there's obviously improvements made or at least to some degree, more competitive pricing for the same thing.

HE1, HE60 and stax omega sealed the deal for state of the art best sounding thing to exist, and now there's a few more headphones that has joined the same performance level at a much more competitive price.

Same with Arya and focal clear, extremely competitive pricing (as of now), without them the upgrade steps would be wildly different for a lot of people.

Same with dacamps u can get 3000$ performance from like a 600-700$ stack now because of the competition.

In terms of absolute peak it's the matter of experience, u can say that the newer systems that's designed to beat/compete against the old best are better, at least objectively they're on the same playing field which means to some people they're better.

STAX x9000 and Warwicks acoustics bravura/aperio, abyss Diana TC ab1266TC, along with HE60/HE1/ShangriLa SR are the pinnacle for now, all of them offer different experiences of about the same performance, and you get to choose what's your preference.

3

mattriarchal t1_iu3meaz wrote

Ive considered this recently too as the audio industry appears to be taking the value route now rather than making genuine (non snake oil) innovation

Its nice that good audio is getting cheaper and cheap audio is getting better, but it would be awesome to see something brilliant again :(

However i feel its also the naturally increasing pace of technology. Imagine how long it took to go from the first planar IEM to the budget planar iem race. "Value" planar iem used to be the s12 as it was once the only one under $200, but only months after, we now have units under $50

2

renerem t1_iu5pp84 wrote

Looking at what most high-end headphones offer in terms of frequency response, especially closed-backs, no

2

Nadeoki t1_iu6o0un wrote

Idk. Planar designs seem to make big waves recently

2

Nadeoki t1_iu6snjg wrote

Both storage, Game performance and Av1 which is basically going to become industry standard and therefor a necessity are all very noticable. Even to casual users.

2

Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu902bb wrote

I wasn't able to follow. How do you mean storage and game performance?

Is AV1 the open source video codec equivalent for Audio?

1

Nadeoki t1_iu9wixa wrote

Phone games are becoming bigger. Thus we need more 1TB phones (there's only a handful rn) and perhaps more later on, same because of Video and image files increasing in size (Iphone will be using 8K video at some point)

AV1 is video a video codec that takes special hardware that phones don't have.
Opus (the audio equivalent) doesn't.

2

Jido7 t1_iu3axfz wrote

To me, it depends on the maturity of planar headphones (which hit their peak in terms of technological application a few years ago). most planar headphone manufacturers have been able to produce very good sound quality and probably there aren't many other ways to improve its performance. for dynamic, it had peak many years ago. so yeah, until a new class of technology that can have different sound quality than dynamic and planar, I would think we had reached the peak. Electrostatic? Not too common and IMHO not too different from planar sound

1

praxis22 t1_iu3ec25 wrote

With the Moondrop Chu I think so. Never heard anything that sounds so good. I tried the 7Hz Salnotes Zero after listening to the Chu for a month,it was meh. Kept the tips. They made the Chu sound better. They both cost $20. Hate the cable,love the sound.

1

wijnandsj t1_iu3jqp7 wrote

>Have you seen a major leap forward in areas of headphone market?

Yes. ANC is now mainstream and quite good. The rise of the TWS is also new.

>What would compell you to upgrade today?

Nothing. I just did. Went from a DT770 to a DT700

>Have significant technical limitations been overcome recently that go beyond personal taste?

Apart from ANC and TWS? Planars have shrunken and become affodrable. Not that long ago they cost as much as a used car and required a dedicated amp.

>And how about personal taste? Was any particular pair a leap forward for your personal tastes?

Well, yes. Which is why I bought it. The Dt700

1

PenisFly_AhhhhScary t1_iu3ryoa wrote

we hit peak headphone over 20 years ago with Stax Lambda Sig. Only actually endgame stuff recently is Hifiman stuff like Susvara and shangri La.

1

coptician t1_iu41e7p wrote

I know what you mean.

I listened to the Dan Clark Expanse extensively a month back. I was ready to buy it. But comparing it to my (EQ'd) HD800S, I didn't really find it preferential. It sounded good but not revolutionary, which was the only way I could justify the high price tag. Some things even sounded worse to me.

Listening to anything else seems pretty pointless, so I guess this is it. Either that or I pick an Expanse up second-hand someday and give it a more thorough listen. But in the mean time, I feel like we plateaud.

1

Wirsingk0hl t1_iu4e2k2 wrote

I dont really think, that we have seen peak sound transducers yet. Maybe because its not possible to get much further. But the electronics are perfect and the only reason you can distinguish headphone sound from the real world is the headphone itself.

1

tonnotonnu t1_iu4lkcg wrote

I think 700USD is kinda like a sweet spot I bought the Ananda and looking for a pair to complement it Can’t find anything I like more yet …

1

Avery1003 t1_iu4sj13 wrote

It's nothing particularly crazy, but my Sony MDR-V6 is my endgame. I like the way it sounds. It combines nicely with my LG Quad DAC.

1

lightning696969 t1_iu552r7 wrote

You should enter into IEM secen bcuz it is getting Spicer and better day by day . You can get high end tuning for 20$ (Moondrop chu and 7hz Zero) which is insane and if you go high end IEM like Moondrop blessings 2 dusk , moondrop variations and Thieaudio Oracle /oracle mk2/Monarch mk2 etc. And those still cheaper than high end headphone. They also sound as good as or close to high end headphone

1

hurtyewh t1_iu57u7d wrote

Analog stuff doesn't usually take such leaps forward. A good camera lens or speaker from the 80's is often good now. What's your price point? There's been several really nice releases in the last five years for sure, but there will never be a time (until some perfected automated EQ personalization comes along) that HD650/600 won't be great. Maybe competition could make them overpriced, but even that's unlikely since inflation keeps eating at them.

1

hentakusfaku t1_iu5cyoh wrote

For me ive always been drawn back to my modded m40x’s; sound sig is perfect, fit and comfort is A1, and overall it just ticks alot of the boxes i like in a headphone. Just a couple days ago my campfire cascades came in the mail and so far i think they are a significantly underrated headphone. Its a much different listening experience from what im used to, it crates a very personal in your brain listening experience without being fatiguing. i think these might become a more rare and sought after headphone in the future

1

Ok-Change503 t1_iu5fv1m wrote

I think the giant planar drivers from hifiman, audeze, etc are relatively new and open up a lot of possibilities.

1

sic_erat_scriptum t1_iu5jfu9 wrote

Passive headphones and IEMs have been as good as they're going to get for a long time now, yes.

There are going to be large strides forward in the next couple of years via active headphones and IEMs with built-in DSP however, the future of personal audio is wireless earphones with adaptive DSP.

There's a reason that traditional 'high-end' audio companies like Focal, Mark Levinson, Bowers & Wilkins, Sennheiser, and others, are all pushing hard into the digital market: It's the future, and traditional headphone/audio companies which don't adapt quickly enough are dead.

1

Hebolo t1_iu5jyhk wrote

What headphones do you have? For open-backs, maybe.

The Sennheiser HD800 came out in 2009 and are still near TOTL. The Stax SR007 were already out since 1998 and are arguably better. The SR009 came out in 2011 and I think are going to be slightly better with EQ. (The bass responds better to EQ. I haven't tested it myself, though.) The HiFiMan Susvara (released about 5 years ago, in 2017) are also arguably better. The Sennheiser HE-1 has been out since about 2016?

We could still get better-tuned Stax in the future (top-tier resolution with top-tier tuning, instead of near-top-tier resolution with top-tier tuning like with the HE-1). There's still slight room for improvement even by current standards.

Closed-back headphones have very much still been getting better, with the Focal Stellia and ZMF Verite Closed released in 2019.

1

sae1ohh t1_iu5q57c wrote

I agree, I'm buying new headphones to have something different, not necessarily to find something better

1

ValtaraxFX t1_iu5sjeq wrote

We peaked with headphones decades ago. IEMs are being innovative as hell rn at all kinds of price ranges, and we live in a bluetooth world so bluetooth headphones are playing catch up, what with the new aptx lossless codec and all.

Basically, wireless headphones finished the race IEMs are closer than ever Bluetooth headphones just started it

1

trbd003 t1_iu64j62 wrote

Honestly I don't know what you were expecting.

Sound has not changed in the last billion years so I wouldn't expect any updates there.

Transducer technology has not seen any major updates - the market is much smaller than it used to be anyway. Headphones is a really tiny part of that market. And all the technology updates in the headphone world have really been aimed at convenience (Bluetooth, charging etc) and playing with the sound via DSP since consumer headphones are virtually all self-powered now.

And "better" sound is a subjective term - what were you expecting? There were already headphones which could reproduce a recording in such a way that your ear could not discern it from the real instrument so what else would have been delivered?

I don't see new headphones as breaking new ground using the latest technology anyway.

1

jbhatnagar00 t1_iu2y8gc wrote

I’m waiting for XMEMS in 2023!

0

IMKGI t1_iu3f7xz wrote

The peak imo was the 800S and since then there has been absolutely nothing in the same pricec which sounds as good as this, even headphones with 2-3x the price don't sound any better, if you like their sound signature they are probably the best pair you can get

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adrian123456879 t1_iu37pc4 wrote

People buy headphones just for fun they know hd600 is king and everything else is just for fun. Some won't admit it because they are bitter

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