I have actually experienced this recently with my own setup and was flabbergasted.

I own Hifi headphones with a mostly good setup supporting them, but I never actually gamed with said headphones.

I tried using my recent acquired Focal Radiance on overwatch and couldn't believe how hollow it sounded.

Can't wait to see what people suggest !

I play bf1 with LCD2 occasionally, I find dark open back headphones much better for gaming immersion compared to one with brighter sound signature.

Headphones can sound very weird if you're not used to them. You really need to use them for at least a week or so for your brain to adapt.

You should try it for a longer time if you can and see if it makes a difference for you.

>it sounded so hollow like the character was speaking into an empty pringles can, and footsteps sounded like corrupted sound files.

Your ears didn't lie to you, DT770 really do have this effect. The reason is a dip at 200 hz, it can make voices sound hollow. G Pro X do not have this dip, thus the difference in sound.

Any headphone is a combination of perks and flaws that either makes you have fun or makes you do some specific task better. I have never heard flawless headphones personally, all of them have flaws.

>He later laughs at me for not knowing the true quality of sound or what a real studio headset sounds like.

Headphones are usually called studio for the other reasons rather than having high sound quality. DT770 in particular are made for tracking vocals and instruments, they're comfortable, durable and they make you feel comfortable while singing, that's why they're called studio headphones. Not because of their sound quality.

High end audiophile headphones are optimized for listening to music, not gaming (although I'm sure some will point out some examples to the contrary). Try listening to some of your favourite music on the Beyerdynamic's and you might see the difference

That said, and as you note, at 80ohm they'll need proper amp set up to drive them (which can come in various forms), so if that's missing then, yes the sound will be underwhelming

For gaming I use an old pair of AKG 171s (55 ohm) I used when I as a DJ and they're perfect (for me)

Unpopular opinion here, Beyers aren't good sounding headphones, the 880s are ok, but the DT770s are especially bad, the 990 aren't too terrible but nothing I would willingly listen to

l bought dolby atmos subscription on win11 l believe for like $20.00 and set it game mode ....makes a dif for just $20.00 that is if you game with your pc...

DT 770 are fairly dry, neutral and with not much low end boost, especially for closed back headphones. Logitechs are probably tuned to be less neutral and to add some spice, most gaming headphones are that way, just how things are.

If you stuck to the DT 770 after a while, you would find the Logitech ones weird and bass boosted.

Also, I'm not sure how these two compare in terms of imaging, distortion etc.

Another thing is the quality of the source files, and the entire audio chain. Maybe the source files are compressed, or the PC wasn't set up with the highest sound resolution and bit depth. The thing with good headphones and speakers set up in a properly treated room is that they can reveal a lot of stuff you would rather not know, they can ruin your favorite songs etc. especially if you learn how to listen critically, turning that mode off in your brain is tough sometimes.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/beyerdynamic/dt-770-pro

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/logitech/g-pro-x-gaming-headset

If you go into sound profile graphs and compare the 770 to the Pro X you will find a nice bump around mid and high bass. If you look at where male voice lives in the frequency chart you will see that the fundamentals are all the way from 100Hz up to almost 1kHz, a cool comparison to do would be to try using an EQ to match the response of DT770 to the one you are used to and see how they sound then. Or even better, get Sound ID app (probably paid) or Sonar Works for headphones (also not free but genuinely solid) or Equalizer APO (free, but you need to set it up) or something and use the EQ correction curve to make both of these headphones EQ responses as flat as possible and then compare them on the same setup, same files and same day. A-B testing, with matched settings, is one of the best ways to compare any product.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hwnCNuE0Gqk/TUs7ODXE9lI/AAAAAAAAAKA/hvdGzxRHlIc/s1600/Interactive-Frequency-Chart.png

DT770 sound clearly better than most cheap consumer headphones, but their strengths are price, usability for many things, durability and a far perhaps tenth sound quality with the stock tuning. With EQ like Oratory1990's preset the jump up quite a few steps and pretty decent. The cup design causes issues that EQ can't remedy, but they're fine. HD280 Pro and K 371 are far better in many ways.

Yup. It's all about brain burn in. I had the same issue when I first got into headphones but once I started listening to more higher quality headphones stuff like the Logitech headphones sounds like it belongs in the trash.

Seems like a frequency imbalance. If he has left them unmodified, I'd suggest he finds a frequency graph from a reputable site, and then attempts to EQ them.

When it comes to sounding "like a corrupted sound file", the DT 770 does have a treble peak, which accentuates high-frequency detail. This is exactly where compression artifacts lie. A lot of game audio is fairly heavily compressed, so artifacts are there. They typically aren't all that noticeable in the mix of different noises and sounds, but will stand out more when you're listening to headphones with a lot of treble for the first time.

Haven't heard any of those. But my 1990s with soundID flat target is the only headphones I have not sold. They are a bit bright without EQ, but bringing the high frequencies down and boosting the bass makes them shine with warmth.

You are not in the wrong at all. You can never be wrong in terms of audio preferences. You could prefer american airline ear buds to a 50k$ seinheiser pair of headphones and still be right about it.

You friend is a snob thinking he knows best but apparently you have better ears than him. It totally makes sense that those Beyers suck at gaming.

i can game verry well with my hifiman sundaras. actually one of the best gaming headphones i ever used. footsteps are super clear and explotions actually scare me sometimes :D they sound super realstic

I don't have any Beyers, so I can't really make any claim with regards to them, but what I can say is it's possible that you're not used to them, and are probably just super used to how your Logitech headset sounds.

Gaming headsets are generally designed to be a bit boomier, so that sounds like gunfire, explosions, engine noises and the like are put greater emphasis on. They're great for playing games for that reason, because they emphasise what's going on on-screen at any one time. Whilst I primarily use Meze 99 Neos on my PC, even for playing games, it's clear this isn't really what they're designed to be dealing with.

I'm in a similar situation right now, though not quite as bad. Having been a user of KZ ZS10 IEMs for about eight months, the right ear decided to stop sealing properly, so I bought some new IEMs - in particular, the Mee Audio Pinnacle PX IEMs from Drop.

They sound hollow to me; even after being used for a few weeks, I'm still trying to overcome the sense that it sounds a bit empty. There is a lot of detail, and I am picking up sounds in music I didn't notice before in a way that's cool, but it doesn't quite have the oomph (for want of a better way to put it) that I got from the KZs. Really good IEMs, and I'll still gladly use them, but I'm not used to them. Given enough time, I'm sure I'll adjust.

Yeah, most audiophile gear isn’t necessarily good for gaming.

Games especially are made for a generalized audience and not catered towards hifi headphones and sound systems. They may not have even tested their sounds with these sort of devices.

The right answer has been provided multiple times but I'll repeat...

1. Thr Beyer 770 factory tuning is not optimized for FPS games. IMO the Beyer 900 Pro X offers the best game tune (staging, tone, footsteps) but gets very fatiguing due to heavy bass after 1-2hrs of COD or BF.

2. 'Brain Train' is real. You need to listen to a new pair of headphones for a week or so to really appreciate the musical presentation. Also make sure you're fitting them on your head correctly. Fit is super important!

My recommendation for the best staging, sound, footsteps and comfort is the Sennheiser PC38x. Over the years I've literally tried them all and these offer the best performance across FPS and Action game titles.

If the game’s audio is designed for Atmos or some sort of 3D sound it’ll sound oddly spaced out on audiophile hardware.

Check the game audio settings. Make sure it’s set to stereo.

Dt 770 have a very unusual metallic sound to them, I’m not a fan personally, but my favourite headphones of all time are the beyerdynamic t5p which sound so much more natural. I did have some g pro x and I thought they sounded like shit, but I guess they sound more natural than the dt 770. You’d probably prefer sennheisers house tuning

I have HD600s and I use grados 60x when gaming, you’re not alone

My new computer came with Dolby Atmos for Headphones. After months of using stock Windows Sonic for HRTF compensation, I can say with absolute certainty that Atmos on PC is absolutely, positively ass.

Barring the fact that enabling it on half my games (IL-2, Rise of Flight, Space Engine, and more) causes certain audio to only shoot out my left headphone ear; when Atmos finally does decide to work, sound coming from straight ahead (notably car engine noises in GTA Online) is very noticeably distorted and compressed as opposed to with Atmos turned off, or with Sonic turned on.

I've tried all the settings, I've tried all the modes, I've even tried creating custom modes. Nothing fixes it.

AKG K612 Pro and FiiO BTR5 user here.

Sounds like he’s playing with surround sound on. 🥹

That is a fact. It's not an open-back but I was playing Elden Ring and realized that my Atticus is way more immersive than my Arya.

You're not wrong about one thing: you know what you like. And that's what you should be using, things that you prefer the sound of.

Great "audiophile" (I actually hate using this term) headphones aren't necessarily the best fit for gaming. Gaming audio seems to be work best when the EQ curve is distorted to ridiculous levels, highlighting and exaggerating particular frequencies that give you in-game advantages, but that would sound awful to someone used to "non-gaming" headphones when listening to music.

The DT770 is known to be a little on the lean and dry side. That takes some getting used to. Your brain has to be adjust (and this takes time) from the overly sweetened / salty presentation of a gaming headset. Once you get over that adjustment period, you might grow to appreciate the subtlety, which will help you notice all sorts of little details that might have been hidden by the way a gaming headset is tuned.

They're higher end stuff is pretty good, but I don't like their cheaper stuff. Just me though. You do you.

I use my DT 1990s for gaming all the time (it's actually their primary use) and absolutely love them. I haven't heard the others either.

I haven't listened to a DT770, but your ears don't lie.

However, the problem is two fold.

One, you comprehend only upon the sum of your experiences. This goes for both of you by the way. You won't appreciate the capability of something or understand its shortcomings without experiencing the greater breadth.

Two, human hearing is NOT static. Our minds constantly adjust to balance out common sounds. Your mind will "tune" to what you experience a lot, and that sound will become normalized. It can take work and training to actually detuned and be more unbiased. You will also need equipment too. For example when I get new equipment, test, and review I use an array of other headphones as static, known points along a measuring stick. I also use test tones and pink noise tracks to aid with EQing and seeing how the product produces sound and forms the notes. And the process to fully learn and understand a single product well takes weeks of daily listening, testing, and comparing. All of this is done to tune out the bias and accumulate details.

Companies like Logitech make good headphones. They make products that hit center mass in the market space. They are all around good but at the same time not amazing either. They just don't do anything terribly wrong. And for this market space, that performs and sells well. It's also why companies like Steel Series is very popular because they do the same thing.

Durability and repairability are the most important quality of studio headphones found in studios.

Battlefield sound is the best. Playing 2042 with HD800s is so immersive.

Up the headphone ladder at some point it gets extremely hard to hear any flaws tbh...

>it sounded so hollow like the character was speaking into an empty pringles can, and footsteps sounded like corrupted sound files

Yup, that's the 770s. Quite good at revealing crunchy footstep noises, with decent imaging to boot.

Try listening to some music with it next time. Quite exciting and dynamic imo.

I actually really don’t like using my good headphones for gaming and use a hyper x cloud headset for gaming.

For music is a different story

>it sounded so hollow like the character was speaking into an empty pringles can, and footsteps sounded like corrupted sound files.

If you ever get a chance, try the HD 6XX/600. They both make vocals sound insanely good.

What does "hollow" mean sonically?

Get high enough that ladder to the point you start looking for the flaws in the mastering of any track

Yeah, I can't say I was very impressed with Atmos for headphones. I just don't think it works very well with source audio that isn't set up for it. The idea of just magically turning a 2.0 stereo system into Atmos is another thing but, I think it can sometimes sound pretty good if a game or something offers it natively like OW2.

Beyerdynamic house sound is V-shaped. 80 ohm are slightly different than other models of the DT770. More midbass and less treble.

Lucky guy. I have easily heard flaws in all planars I have heard (1266 TC and LCD-2 included). Was a bit harder time with Focals but still.

It usually means that there's a lack of the lower midrange while the upper midrange is boosted. This recesses the fundamental tone and emphasizes the harmonics, resulting in the sound lacking weight or body.

Try tightening your throat while speaking. You should find that your voice will be higher pitched and thinner in sound. That's a bit like having a hollow sound. It's something that is an intuitive description once you hear it, but is hard to describe otherwise.

Every headphone has a signature to it. The Beyer 770’s are definitely much more midrange/high end emphasizing than others.

Usually it takes about 20 minutes for your ears to adapt to the signature of a particular headphone and then you kind of adapt and things start sounding more normal.

Honestly for the flagships it takes like at least an hour to get used to it even having heard and daily drive TOTLs all day everyday.

Hearing them at a canjam or similar situation hardly count as having heard them tbh.

1266 at least the most glaring flaw is 13khz peak, with a 7db EQ down it's fairly close to flawless, albeit that has changed due to x9000.

But they're all good enough where once you get used to it, and without other flagships as comparison, it sound good enough to be considered flawless.

Imo ab1266+EQ, sr009s, x9000, LCD 5, are all good enough that feasibly I wouldn't be able to imagine how much better it can get without other flagships comparisons.

All the high end headphones I've tried are flawed to some degree, and I've heard most of them. But at that level none of the flaws are particularly glaring.

Going from hd650 to clear or utopia was also immensely hard to tell the flaws in them as well, even though nowadays my clear sound very tame...

Yeah well obviously theoretically there can't be zero flaws, but some of them are so universally good that had you not compared them you would never think it's lacking in anything...

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Man I really want to try a Beyerdynamic just out of curiosity. They sound like such a mixed bag. When I transitioned over from a Hyper X Cloud II to my 6XX everything sounded very correct and just right to me.

The hugest flaw of almost every planar and most high-end headphones in general I have heard is 1 khz peak, and 1266 TC has rather huge one. Why should I get used to shouty phones that give me fatigue very quickly? 1 khz peak doesn't give me any more information that I already hear, nor it makes sound more natural, but it absolutely gives me fatigue. It's a huge flaw to me.

Yeah definitely. Especially with regards to frequency response; all of them are so close to neutral that most people would see them as flawless. I think what I really meant was that every headphone at the high end has one or two things thar they do much, much better than others, so relative to that, all high-end headphones are "flawed" in some way.

yeah I can see that, sometimes I imagine if there's anything that somewhat combined the strengths of the flagships, and so far the closest I've heard is probably x9000 or bravura...

Sounds like nocebo to me, coming from the hd650 to focal clear to lcd5 and Myriad of other flagships I never really found them particularly fatiguing, or rather it was easy to get used to them, in return making mid-hifi cans sound muddy in comparison.

Even hd650 has a 1k peak but it's just 2-3 DB lower.

I have the DT770 Pro 80ohm through a Schiit Magni Heresy. Love them. Used them daily for music and gaming and had no issues. Upgraded to an LCD X recently and now they are my daily driver.

No, it doesn't. Actually the only mid-fi headphone I have tried that has shouty 1 khz was Yamaha MT8, other mid-fi phones had pretty linear mids, or had problems in other places rather than 1 khz. It really is only an issue with hi-end headphones, Audeze in particular. Haven't tried TOTL Sonys though.

Talking about HD650/600/6xx and others from this series - this is the only headphone in the world that doesn't give me any ear fatigue at sane levels of volume. The most comfortable sound signature in the world. They really may feel dull compared to other headphones, mid-fi included, but it is worth getting used to that sound sig, because balance between details and fatigue is perfect.

Seconding the PC38X - I’ve simply stopped there. I have much better’ headphones, but these are it for gaming.

Sensitive ears per se, having being used to hifi and flagships for a long time it's shocking to me I ever thought the hd650 sounded good when I put them on nowadays.

Lcd4 was the most "it sounds better the louder you go" headphone for me, and i couldn't stop turning it up...

It's not like I blast music at 100db+ for more than 30min to an hour at a time often anyways, and lower volume listening or regular web browsing is far from fatiguing to me.

Contrary to popular belief, the DT 770 Pro are actually pretty shitty headphones.

Yeah, the 770s without EQ kinda suck tbh.

What you heard wasn't a lie but there are probably many forces at play from what you stated (settings, tuning, customisations etc) to your own ears (and his) settling to their respective usage of headphones aka the term 'Brain Train' if you can google where you would need a fortnight to transition.

Still, when it comes to gaming in addition to audiophile and also podcasts, Sennheiser followed by Audio Technica is the most sought, seen and way to go if not to start with even if there were pricier options at your disposal but make sure to check your settings like Surround Sound to all those add-ons with Windows.

>having being used to hifi and flagships for a long time it's shocking to me I ever thought the hd650 sounded good when I put them on nowadays.

You could get that feeling simply by using AKG K612 Pro, and they're cheaper than HD650.

Headphones flaws have nothing to do with listeners impression. If you highly enjoy phones with extremely colored sound, it doesn't mean they don't have flaws, it means you tolerate those if you experience more exciting sound. And you can't compare HD650 to hi-end in that regard simply because most of the hi-end is basically about the system of flaws and perks for providing excitement in various genres and productions (and Abyss does that approach in the most extreme way), while HD650 is designed with conception of having the least flaws possible (and their only real flaw is the lack of subbass). Of course HD650 isn't an exciting headphone - flawless acoustics is never exciting.

Back then I believed that you may have a more exciting sound that doesn't sound disgusting on numerous tracks. Not anymore, I have tried enough hi-end to prove myself wrong.

You’re right, “gaming” oriented headphones have a bass boost to them In my experience in rtings hahaha. Games through my Koss KPH30i’s sound great compared to my hearing aids that have a signature that emphasizes the high end. (My Koss Kph30is have bass boost too)

There are mic clips in so much music. Luckily it makes you appreciate the well mastered stuff and follow the other projects the mastering engineer worked on.

I think you’ve hit a point that no one else has. Gaming oriented headphones and audiophile headphones are doing different things. Gaming oriented headphones need not be technical, most have a specific sound signature (mid-bass boost) AND need to appeal to the mass market (bass boost is good and the bigger the better, like sugar or salt in food; some people build a liking for more and more BUT generally people in the mainstream will think more is better)

The DT Pros will make bad recordings very evident! They take off all the prostitute makeup and show you what kind of pig is really uner there.

Beyer headphones have always been given too much credit for how bad they sound. There are some exceptional models, by not most. They do make great gaming cans though.

First off, you aren’t in the wrong. You just have a different taste in sound. Secondly, as much as I love the DT 770, you are correct about their hollow nature. They have a dip around 200hz which makes them sound thinner, and another dip at around 3.8Khz followed by a rise in the upper treble. So I can absolutely understand why you would perceive them as sounding hollow.

Never heard them but your ears don't lie. Your ears > blanket statements and generalizations. Now try the same game (or any game really) on a HD800s or LCD-X on an amp capable of driving them at decent volume.

I found with the DT 770 80ohm if you turn the volume up further than you normally would, but not so far as to hurt your hearing, you get WAY more bass and detail in the audio.

I wonder if it was the same sensation I got when I started looking for hifi headphones. I went to a hifi store and listened to sundaras, hd600, hd660s. They all souded wierd and hollow to me, after a couple of listening sessions there the hd660s sound full and fun to me.

Impossible to say without hearing it ourselves.

>The thing with good headphones and speakers set up in a properly treated room is that they can reveal a lot of stuff you would rather not know, they can ruin your favorite songs etc

So true, my HD660S ruined the album Outrun from Kavinsky, I can't listen to Roadgame w/ them

The amount of money some of these set ups cost. I would expect to know that I am hearing something special from the get go. Not have to spend an hour convincing myself.

This should be with almost every headphone it's called the equal loudness curve

Your friend sucks

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Again with the "footsteps".

Why does every "is good for gaming" review of headphones have to include how well footsteps come through? How many of us are actually pro gamers, really?

Also, have you heard a lot of real-life explosions? You'd have to have, to know if an explosion sounds "super realistic" or not.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure any loud, sudden sound is going to be scary, more often than not.

Also, sound engineers for games don't always make "realistic" explosions - they take artistic liberties to modify and twist sounds to make them however they want - including explosions. I mean, if you're playing Halo, and a plasma-something explodes... how in the world are you going to have a base line for how that's supposed to sound, this sci-fi, made up thing?

tl;dr - there's more to gaming than footsteps and explosions, and explosions are not always mixed to sound "real" to begin with, so this praise of Sundara isn't reliable data. In the end, you should always try a headphone and see if you like it.

Games do sound really odd. After I upgraded from Beyerdynamic Custom One to iBasso SR2 there is a lack of bass (I was using the Cops on 3/4) as well as a little bit more stage. It took a day or two to get used to in my main few games. But it's alright.

You should try music and make sure it's driven well, and might notice a difference. Your hear will get accustomed to what you hear and might just prefer it.

I found gaming headphones I've had... typically also utilized virtual surround software, which did bolster TV shows where otherwise the audio was extremely flat, and some movie cinematics benefit. But turning virtual surround off on say Astro A50s, it sounded cheap and hollow too. It couldn't produce natural sounding audio without surround effects turned on, and is tuned explicitly for that purpose. A warmer headphone, like the X2HR, I think sounds very good in stereo while gaming, and if I like, I can add Dolby Atmos or Windows Sonic surround effects. I rarely do.

It really depends on the headphones. A studio reference headphone for gaming isn't ideal for me. That said, many gamers I know turn on treble boost in game setup for FPS, and that makes the whole audio flat and hollow except for the top end for footsteps and such. They care more for the edge in hearing nearby movements than overall immersion in the game. I can't stand that personally. But in say warzone, as usual, I often can't hear people running straight at me until they're like 10 feet away and blasting me. lol But that's not the headphones (does this with all the headphone I've tried over the years, boosted or not), it's the game. They just can't seem to get audio cues correct. Other games do that far better, and I think they need to pirate what their competitors do. So I might as well enjoy the whole game's audio and not just Auto EQ it for a specific purpose.

The cans I use for solo gaming are the Audioquest nighthawk, which are a sort of semi open back, and warm. I think they're exceptional for music, gaming and movies. Without virtual surround.

> it sounded so hollow like the character was speaking into an empty pringles can

You mean beyerdynamic.

You know it's also hard to sit and demo a headphone for a moments use you're not familiar with, coming from a gaming headset especially, but all headphones. It may strike you as oddly off or hollow, particularly when coming from a HP with bass boost, or a more forward mid, or virtual surround. Takes time for your hearing to adjust to the new sound character. Also I don't think the dt770 80 ohm is all that impressive. Not to knock it at all. It's good as far as closed backs are concerned for quiet/less bleed use cases, but an open back gains you more natural detail and soundstage. Also, try the higher ohm version with a dac and amp. Or the dt 990.

Playing overwatch with my HD6XX sounds just like I think it should sound. I don't have any complaints about gaming with them and they image better than other gaming headphones imo so I'm quite happy with them.

I also like to enable the bass boost on my iFi Zen Dac for my background music to sound better, so maybe that kinda fixes the hollowness a bit.

Because it's probably the most sound-focused thing to check for? If you're playing any competitive FPS, it's a common sound you're looking for, and competitive FPSs are one of the most popular genres in the world. What's another gaming-specific sound that people care about hearing clearly that's not specific to a certain game?

In some ways, footsteps are essentially the "Vocal clarity" of gaming. Plenty of people listen to music without vocals, just like a lot of people play games where footsteps don't matter, but it's a nice marker that a lot of people care about.

Also crucially, minimal mic bleed.

What it really boils down to is the dt770, while a good and well respected set of headphones, is not a high end pair of headphones. It's still firmly in the range of cheaper consumer grade electronics. I've never listened to them myself before but I've heard they're lacking in several areas. I tested almost every gaming headset on the market back in 2019-2020 and I found the SteelSeries Arctis Pro to be a great gaming headset with really hifi sound, especially if you get it with the Game DAC. For about $350 it sounds as good as a lot of my $700 plus headphones.

Edit: Downvoted for telling the truth.

Take a look at that treble response curve.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/beyerdynamic/dt-770-pro

Also notice that 6.5 for gaming. Compared to the 8.0 gaming score of the Arctis Pro. Meanwhile it has a much better treble response while staying close in the lows and mids. I'll back my shit up.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/steelseries/arctis-pro-wireless

This makes sense. I used a pair of TYGR 300s for months, recently got a pair of LCD-GXs, and it took a little bit for me to adapt but now that I have it’s crazy the immersion and scale is so much better

i don't know if it's a good headphone for that but i use my Sundara for some BF2042 and i like a lot

So I think a few things are going on here.

1. The dt 770s are made for audio production where you want to hear everything, good bad and the ugly. So when paired with a source that may not be geared towards sounding great in all things but great in a few you'll definitely hear that.

2. A lot of people in this hobby don't like closed back headphones as they feel it sounds like the music and what not are being played through a clamshell. If he happens to have a pair of open back headphones give them a try and see what you think.

3. It may also be you're used to your Logitechs sound signature and that anything else sounds really weird. I have like six pairs of different headphones and when I switch between them it takes me a couple minutes to get used to how they sound.

4. And finally sound a subjective what sounds good to your friend doesn't necessarily mean it'll sound good to you. And a lot of people forget that in this hobby. So if you like the sound of your logitechs by all means enjoy them, because there is really no wrong way to enjoy audio even when there's those people out that that will tell you as such.

So I personally use a pair of WH-1000XM4s but I autoEQ'd them to be the 2018 Harman Neutral over ear target, and I do not get this.

What you are describing is something I notice specifically with open backs. However the Sennheiser HD800S are phenomenal for gaming.

Closed backs for gaming, open backs for everything else is what I'd say you could roll with if you want to hot swap. However, you could use SteelSeries Engine to use their app SteelSeries Sonar (I think) and you can actually set a custom EQ per game, meaning that you could run a neutral target the rest of the time and then tune the open backs to sound proper during gaming.

This is just my two cents, there is always the fact that you're experiencing is just shitty video game settings (should be using Headphones mode and I like to turn on all of the audio enhancements the game offers).

As someone who's been in this game for a while. I trust the guy with multiple hifi sets including the Diana's. Don't sweat it arguing with this dude, he's obviously one of those people who like to justify their purchases as the end all be all anyone who disagrees is inferior.

They also have a lot of audio files, so not compressing it enough can increase install size or cause issues with performance.

Hd800s are insanely good for games imo.

No ure not wrong. Ure just slow

Weird I have the same headphones and never had an issue, what amp are you using/audio interface

You sure convinced your self that your hearing is better than it really is lul

Very true. Especially when modded. Unreal soundstage, clarity and detail. I LOVE mine for gaming.

The most obvious measurement to how good a headphone is, is obviously enjoyment, the other not so obvious measurement is how "realistic" it sounds.

I think it's safe to say that anyone with ears can tell me a guitar sounds more real on any of the flagships I mentioned vs hd650, for a multitude of reasons from detail to tonality to resonance to decay.

If you recorded a guitar heard it live, then heard it played back it's easy to say which one sounds more real.

It's the difference between a synth piano vs Steinway grand, if you choose that the Steinway doesn't sound like what "piano" is supposed to sound to you, and it's colored, then so be it. Don't mind the Craftsmanship and careful tuning put into modern grands.

If Sennheiser truly believed hd650 was the least flawed possible then there would be no point for their hd800, he1, Orpheus.

Having heard over 80 sets and owned 30+ from 30$ to 6000$+ I'd say I know what I'm listening for, compared to 95% of people out there especially on reddit. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

It's not like I listened to hd650 or focal clear for years before I started getting into TOTLs or anything right.

My DT770's are the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. I could (and do) use them for full day sessions. Not to mention that they're built like a tank.

Have I heard better? Sure. But I only need one pair and they last forever.

I paid for sonarworks years ago, then they changed everything and now it just does not work at all.

I need to get Equalizer APO set up properly.

Beyers are an acquired taste. You either love them, hate them or tolerate them long enough to realize you actually like them.

It's barely a metric.

Foot steps are a function of volume - whether or not the dev balanced that particular sound to play loudly or not/whether or not the software/third-party software allows the player to adjust the levels of specific sounds/frequencies or not.

Volume is not a measure of headphone quality.

Most video games (especially the ones you're referencing) also have dialog/character chatter, gunfire or weapon clashing, motor vehicle engines, etc. I'm not saying people don't care about footsteps. I'm saying being able to hear them is subject to highly diminishing returns, and are not the measure, or a significant measure of a headphone.

$2 earbuds at the checkout lane at Walmart will let you hear footsteps more than fine.

For me DT770 absolutly sucks. I tried them a couple of times and they sounded hollow asf.

I have a pair and i barely ever use them. Can't stand how they sound, especially when i compare them to the dt880 pros, which are one of my favourite headphones.

The DT770 is V-shaped. It's not neutral at all. The mids are scooped.

He probably had some sort of positional software running, which tends to sound as if things are echoing off the walls of a metallic chamber. Creative Soundblasters, Dolby DCSS (I think it's called) and other gimmicky positional technologies all severely mangle audio fidelity in favour of more accurate sound location in the 3D audio space.

I used to play games with those technologies and they do help to some degree, but then I yanked my Soundblaster out of my PC and put an Asus audiophile card in that I had bought ten years prior and didn't open and there's no beating a good stereo setup with quality sound that hasn't been coloured by that gimmicky positional crap. I use ATH-M40x headphones.

Can't you just EQ this for the game?

Try the DT-250, will be WAY better.

Well yeah but compared to any gaming headset they are still fairly neutral. I mean I've linked reviews with EQ response graphs for a reason.

Damn I wasn't aware of this. I saw some open source community data banks with corrective EQ curves for a bunch of headphones. I'm sure you can find it if you do some googling. Also if you have a solid curve from sonar works already you can just try to copy it best you can into the EQ APO. Good luck and may the good sound be with you always xD.

This, and also I think a lot of non-audiophile types expect too much when trying out a pair of high-end headphones (high-end to them, mid-fi to most of us).

Usually this is because an audiophile has hyped up their gear before having their friend try it out. They expect to be blown away, but that hardly ever happens.

Unless all they’ve known is super crappy headphones, and you’re having them tryout a flagship set like HD800S, their reaction is probably going to be something close to OP’s.

Aren't people also looking for the soundstage and imaging in headphones when describing being able to pinpoint footsteps? I'm not sure if you play any FPS, but it isn't just about hearing footsteps. It's about being able to tell where they're coming from.

DT 770 80 ohm are meant for studio listening. They produce very clean sound - but what you get out is what you put in. I wouldn't use them for gaming, in general. Might sound too clinical.

Imo, For gaming you want a wide sound stage and good bass. I'd use something open back to get that "surround sound" feel that most closed backs can't emulate.

That's one of the problems with the new sonarworks deal - they hide everything including the EQ curve. You just need to "trust" it - when it works. You set it up by simply telling it your age/sex/preferences and it makes an EQ map for you behind the scenes.

I was so afraid of this when I was buing my Hd 560S senns. I wanted them mainly for everyday desktop use, but I also needed something more precise while producing and mixing foley sounds for our animations at work.

I was so wrong. They soun'd like haven to me in everything I do.

You asked what hollow meant. I tried to provide a definition. If you didn't want this hollow sound, then yeah, you would use EQ to reduce or remove it, or get a different pair of headphones.

Yea, my understanding is more about the differentiation of that particular sort of high-mids most of the time. Having headphones or such with clear imaging and a reasonable EQ that doesn't cut that portion of the spectrum can matter to some people, in much the way that OP was disappointed with how a vocal/instrument studio headphone pair sounded empty and weird.

HD6XX's have a warmer sound signature compared to Beyerdynamics, and way less treble. Any voices coming from the Sennies sound full, and not hollow. The HD6XX's have a rather large bass roll-off, so bass boost can help counter that.

Airline headphones are... Unique...

I've played a thousand hours of CSGO, and I'm sure several thousand more hours of Halo.

Where the footsteps are coming from is super obvious in literally any headset or IEM/earbud. That's why people crouch, because you're either stomping around, or you're silent - there is no nuance or in-between.

Good directionality comes from the engine, first and foremost.

And in no game are there, like, octagonal intersections? - it's almost always normal cardinal directions. That's how maps are setup. Nobody is using pinpoint accuracy to know that a person is 36 degrees to their left, rather than 38 degrees.

99.999999% of competitive shooters in gamesense, prefiring at headshot level, and strategy/effective teamwork and use of in-game skills and items. You actually have to be pro, or incredibly try-hard, for hyper-accuracy in sound directionality to matter even a little bit.

I guarantee you, pros could be out there smoking folks with no sound at all. It's a big part of the game. Not that big, though.

You really think people are out there playing truly competitively in noise-controlled rooms, with high end headphones, rather than some Razer sponsored garbage?

Really?

I actually think this might be the case here, turn that off, only works with multiple driver headphones. My dt770 250ohm don't sound hollow at all, in any game. I ran em without an amp for years(laptop had one built in tho). I was instantly amazed by them too, no brain burn in required, had em almost 10 years now. I can barely use my gaming headphones, when I do I can't hear shit in fps and in other games they are fine, but still bad. They live in my neck for the mic now.

Headphones are so subjective, if they weren't there would be one correct choice in each bracket. The real reason to get audiophile opinions is so you can figure out what you like and find that through recs and such. It also helps you save money when you can't test these things. Knowing a headphone has a sound you don't enjoy means you don't have to waste time looking into it.

Also good for when you want a pair of fun or different headphones. It's always fun to experience something that feels much different.

I agree, except for the "a lot of game audio is fairly heavily compressed". That was the case like 10 years ago. Most games today have uncompressed audio.

I have the 32 Ohm version and use them for listening to music and for playing my Kawai digital piano. I don't do any kind of studio work, but I have worn the 770s several times for 3-4 hours without any discomfort at all. They are super comfortable, even though my ear barely fits inside them, so I'm sure I could wear them all day, too.

Yeah, I'm just furthering the point based on your definition. EQ should take care of the issue in most cases.

Bruh, what's your issue with prostitutes? Weird comment

That's the weird part! I didn't think I would like them. I've got wide ears and other headphones have given me headaches because of that in the past. I've also heard they clamp way too hard on the head.

But then I tried them and somehow they do clamp tight and do push my ears but it's not a problem at all

RT has the 250 ohm, which is similar to the 32 ohm, but assembly of the 80 ohm is significantly different, and imparts more bass and less treble.

We actually have a DT variant guide from Head-Fi in the sidebar.

I know what you're trying to say because highly praised headphones (including mid-fi) often play percussive sounds sharper and with more attack than HD6** series does, thus the initial feel of realism is higher. That's why I said about AKG K612 because they have the same characteristic - you would call them more realistic because they're overall closer to what you love to hear in TOTL than HD650 is.

Because, let me repeat that once again, - you can't really compare HD6xx to anything else because they have different approach to the sound comparing to the most other headphones (the only real contender is Shure SRH1840 I believe). It's not about their price, they really have different tuning. The tuning that lets you raise high shelf after 6 khz for "less muddiness" and be with it because of how linear is the treble. It's about balance. They have the least flaws not because they hit a lot of things right but because there're not many things that they do wrong. It's a coincidence that the only area where this approach pays off heavily is the vocals, and the others are just "meh" until you get used (after higher-end headphones as well).

>If Sennheiser truly believed hd650 was the least flawed possible then there would be no point for their hd800, he1, Orpheus.

You don't seem to understand what "flaw" is. And yes, HD800 is a more flawed phone than HD650. It's flawed for a purpose, like almost whole hi-end is.

Imagine spending money on a lot of hi-end headphones instead of learning to use EQ ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Consumerism doesn't make you a great specialist in sound. Ignorance doesn't either.

Exactly how the dt770 sounds. Total shit show IMO. Don't know why it's so recommended everywhere.

Yeah, my head is kind of skinny, so the clamping on me is secure, but not uncomfortably tight. I have to kind of wiggle the cups until my ear is entirely inside them for a proper seal, but it isn't uncomfortable. I think they're great headphones!

Everyone going to have a different preference. What sounds like shit to other might sound great to you.

I've got sonarworks reference - it's great to use as a DAW plugin, not worthwhile for music listening with headphones vs Equaliser APO/Peace and base community EQ profiles IMO.

I wonder who's the one that's ignorant lul

Cheers to someone who's ignorant enough that thinks they can change engine pipes to make a civic into Bugatti lul

This is a specific issue with Abyss, not planars in general. Hifiman don't have a peak there.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,AB-1266_Phi,Arya_Stealth

The Arya is probably already "high-end" but it's not there in their TOTL stuff either:

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Susvara,HE1000se

Nor do "high-end headphones in general".

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,HD800S,Stealth

Audeze (planar) and Focal (dynamic drivers) can have a slight emphasis there, on some headphones, but it's not Abyss level, and it's typically not centered on 1kHz either, it's a bit higher or lower.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,LCD-X_(2021),Utopia_S3

I have two Audeze including the LCD-X and I do think EQ is a must, but it's more to do with the uneven and recessed upper mids than what's going on in the lower mids. I use a slightly tweaked Oratory1990 profile which does EQ down 760Hz but only by 1dB. There is maybe a slight honk that is reduced by EQing this out. But much larger issues in the upper mids where it is very muffled without EQ. Utopia the slight rise centered at ~1.2kHz really doesn't bother me. Both it and the Clear sound very similar tonally to the HD650/HD6XX, just better. HD6XX and Utopia are probably the two headphones I find most usable without EQ.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Utopia_S3,HD650_S2_(2020)_(fresh_pads)

> Especially when modded

/r/headphones/comments/o04onc/welp_you_asked_for_it_cat_ear_hd800/

You just proved my point by comparing headphones with cars :)

I can say that I have heard too much 1 khz in Hifimans as well, some on the same level as Audeze, some - a bit less. One of the reasons is 2-3 khz dip, just like you said in your post (dips always make frequencies before and after it appear to be hotter), the other is evenly descending FR from 1 khz towards bass, which makes 1 khz being a peak.

I guess that open-backed Focals are more comfortable in terms of sound signature than other hi-fi headphones.

That makes sense. Although, there is one "current" game in which you can clearly hear the compression: GTA 5 / Online, but that came out 9 years ago of course, so it's no surprise it is no longer "current" on a technical level.

Whatever u say man, I like my bass guitar sound like proper bass guitar not some muddy mess but if you insist the mud is the way to go then feel free ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Poor guy refuse to comprehend analogies, truly delusional.

Half-Life 2 only has music being compressed to MP3, otherwise WAV 16/22.05 or 16/44.1 Mono/Stereo. I believe sounds in most games are uncompressed actually. Even if it's an older game, it's likely to have lower sampling rate for its samples (16/22.05 or 8/22.05 for example), but still they're often true PCM.

I experienced a massive increase in game audio quality by going from some logitechs to DT-990s, but that may have been due to them being open backs. I definitely think you're hearing artifacting though, which is the downside to high-end equipment. It's like suddenly noticing bad / dated CGI on your new OLED TV.

Not a huge problem for guys who have access to r/oratory1990 ;)

I'll keep my Senhiessser HD800s and hifi stereo. I'm sure this guy thinks that the 650s can be EQd to sound like the HD800s' though. 😂

Ive had a few dozen pairs of headphones as well before I found my ultimate setups, even then I rotate between them depending on the listening situation. I'm laughing so hard at this guy trying to argue and insult you, even taking the time to switch threads to keep arguing.

Oops Only Treble! #tinny

The k612 is a $200 headphone? You honestly think that sounds the same as a set costing several thousands? Man, I almost wish I had your ears, could save myself some money. I'll take having good ears and being able to tell what real quality is though. You seem to just want to justify your purchase and shit on others. Maybe it's time to put the keyboard away and go listen to some music!

I wasn't saying that they sound the same, but I'm too tired to argue.

One question - why do you think it's me who justifies any purchases and not you? The term "justifying purchase" works both ways, that's why it's stupid by design and grown people don't use it in discussions.

Also, people who talk about ears right from the start are almost guaranteed to not have any. That's my personal experience.

Enjoy your plastic bro.

I'm not your bro.

Okay buddy.

I’d say there’s a few primary factors at play, most of which folks have mentioned here. Neither of you are totally wrong, just maybe not considering or know the bigger picture.

1. everyone has slightly different hearing, and their ear/brain actually becomes accustomed to whatever they typically listen to. So, a different sound profile may sound wrong, even if it’s technically “right”. This is likely part of why your friend hears it as good, and you hear it is wrong - he’s used to it, whether it’s good or not.

2. game audio can’t often be trusted, given it isn’t nearly as high of a priority to make it neutral or natural, and compression for the sake of file size often plays a part. Ultimately, games vary a lot and the makers don’t necessarily have “studio” or “reference” audio gear in mind.

3. these beyers don’t play well with compression from my experience due to their treble peaks. To me, it made things sound harsh and digital in a way. They are also on the lean side for the vocal range, lacking things like “warmth”, “body”, and “fullness”.

Pretty much all ubisoft games have god awful compressions, most noticeably the far cry games.

Compression isn't necessarily the problem. 16/22.05 WAV is going to sound alot worse then 320kbps MP3's; let alone 8/22.05

Absolutely agree with you (not for 8 bits though), but the thing is - these things do not have any compression artifacts, they are just highpassed hard way.

Also interesting thing is how game engines handle all the sounds. I have checked Half-Life 2 after I wrote a post, and was impressed that a lot of sounds there were 16/22.05. I have never payed attention to this in game. Maybe it's a resampling without high-pass filter (the ladder - of course it WILL make artifacts), maybe it's the reverb that worked marvelously in HL2, but still.

Tbf, you aren't going to hear a lot of the 11khz+ on speech, and most of the music in HL2 is electronic and kinda centered in the low/mid range (and lower volume). It's definitely noticeable I think on weapon sounds, but noticeably better then HL1.

In terms of games generally, you have to think about the fact that while compressed files are smaller, having to decompress is more math on top of the game for the CPU to do. If it can dump it in memory and stream from there it's fine, but in some consoles that wasn't easily doable. The other factor is physical media; generally CD's or DVD's back then. It was a trade off for developers. Less so now, where discs are just tokens to enable an online download.

Speech is definitely 44.1 khz there, and music is MP3 (I don't remember what exact quality though). I was talking about sounds like Combine talk, zombies, headcrabs, etc - I was surprised to know that they're 22.05 khz.

>In terms of games generally, you have to think about the fact that while compressed files are smaller, having to decompress is more math on top of the game for the CPU to do.

Yeah, correct. That's why there aren't really any compressed files in any game - back then it was a bad idea because of CPU overhead, now it's a useless idea because it's not much of a disk space comparing to all the other resources.

What game was it? On my limited experience as a newer audiophile, both my Sennheiser hd 600's and my Dekoni Blues sound amazing on modern games with great sound design. Things like Halo Infinite, Battlefield 2042, age of empires 4, Doom eternal, etc, sound really really good on my headphones and when I do a direct comparison to my old gaming headsets, they should like you described, tinny, underwater, empty cans etc.

Did your friend have any audio processing on? Like a DTS or Dolby for headphones? All that 3d audio nonsense makes any pair of headphones kinda sound like shit.

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Been absolutely thrashing a pair of DT770 250ohm's for quite a while, after 7 years of daily use the only issue is the cable starts to get scratchy at weird angles, and I'll be doing a cable replacement mod and probably keep using em for another 7!

Lol not the mod I was talking about but I approve.

I don't have too much experience either headphone, but even from headphone usage standpoint, we get used to the headphone that we use often. Especially if you only use one pair and consider it sounding "correct", switching to something else that drastically sound signatures will make it come across as sounding "wrong". Even if you're experienced in this hobby, this doesn't totally go away, just that you are more aware of it and know how to account for it.

This isn't strictly true. Most games nowadays have sound settings for sound type such as TV, Soundbar, Headphones, Home Cinema. Other games even have adjustments for speaker positioning and dynamic range.

Granted this isn't available for all games, but most fairly high budget games have these features and considerations. The latest generations of game consoles are also pushing hard on audio technology, especially 3D audio with headphones.

Haha audio files for audiophiles

I use them with a Fiio btr7 when gaming and they sound good - are there any settings that might be causing it (spatial sound or whatever it's called)? Or the sound card on the pc perhaps?

As gunshots etc sound beefy rather than hollow on mine...?