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SasquatchGroomer t1_j5ofbye wrote

Trees

156

lantonas t1_j5olpkw wrote

Why does Vermont seem to not lose power so frequently?

12

MusicalMerlin1973 t1_j5ow7ya wrote

Isn’t vt still a lot more open space with farms compared to nh?

32

[deleted] t1_j5uiod1 wrote

100 years ago maybe. Most of our state is a National Forest.

1

[deleted] t1_j5oq6kl wrote

Our power company maintains their power lines instead of waiting for disasters.

24

beardmat87 t1_j5q4h8p wrote

This is the true answer. Me and my neighbors have asked eversource in NH multiple times to take care of some trees that are mixed in with the lines along our road and they always say no. The storm we got on Christmas took 2 down in front of my neighbors house and took the pole with it.

When they came to repair it the lineman asked the super from Eversource why all the trees on our road haven’t been pruned or removed and he couldn’t give a good reason other then they didn’t think it was worth the expense.

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warpedaeroplane t1_j5r3faq wrote

It’s because if you schedule a call with them to come out and do clearing work they schedule it and the guys work it their regular day making straight time. When it falls down in the storm cause they didn’t do it the week before the storm, the guys go out and do the same shit after it’s already fallen + the repair that’s necessitated by not doing it and make overtime.

There’s a reason.

6

slimyprincelimey t1_j5pejfc wrote

Fewer trees along roads. More agricultural fields in rural areas. Fewer chances for issues. Also "seems" might not be correct.

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ScolaMoney t1_j5oorj4 wrote

Great infrastructure compared to the other New England states

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l337quaker t1_j5px29e wrote

I would ask if you are on more NH centric groups (Facebook, reddit, etc) and thus see more posts about it vs posts on VT centric groups. I have family and coworkers on both sides of the river Connecticut, and it's pretty even with power loss from what I hear.

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lantonas t1_j5s74xm wrote

I've lived in Vermont for my entire life and I've lost power for more than an hour once.

3

Tullyswimmer t1_j5ti33u wrote

Yeah, I used to work with a lot of people who lived in VT. They lost power about as much as we did, which is to say not all that much, except in really rural areas.

And there's also been a ton of people I know from MA who've been without power for several days due to this storm. So it's not unique to NH to lose power in a storm that features heavy snow and high winds.

2

mikee-nh t1_j5xgmgo wrote

Yes trees. In 2016, Maine is 89.46% forest and New Hampshire 84.32 %. Vermont is behind West Virginia at 77.8%. Source Wikipedia “forest cover by state”

1

ramblinroseEU72 t1_j5ogf8j wrote

And a power grid from the 1950s that is above ground.

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THE_GREAT_PICKLE t1_j5p8wm3 wrote

I lived in NH for 20ish years, lost power constantly. Lived in the metro Boston area for 10+ never lost power even once. We bought a house a few years ago back in NH, lost power within 2 days of moving here.

It’s an old grid and it’s all above ground. When it’s windy or snowy or super rainy, that screws with the power line. Whereas in Boston all of them are buried so it’s really rare.

25

vexingsilence t1_j5pa3ko wrote

Instead, Boston gets manhole fires and electrified metal plates on the road and side walks. Killed a couple dogs if I remember right.

Depends on many factors. If your area is powered by one set of lines, you lose that, you're out. In a more dense area, there's more lines, less chance of a single break causing a significant outage. If you're well away from civilization, you're also likely to be low on the list for restoration.

Look at the delivery fees on your electric bill right now and tell me you seriously want them to rebuild the entire infrastructure underground. Most of the state wouldn't be able to afford what would happen to that delivery fee.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5pq7ys wrote

> Look at the delivery fees on your electric bill right now and tell me you seriously want them to rebuild the entire infrastructure underground.

Yes please. I'll take a slightly higher light bill and power that rarely ever goes out over a slightly lower one and I lose power a few times a year.

0

vexingsilence t1_j5pr68w wrote

Wouldn't be slightly higher. Especially in areas where they encounter rock and need to either drill, blast, or both. A lot of people are struggling with utility costs as it is.

What they should do is build the line from Québec to lower electric costs, then maybe use some of the savings to do infrastructure work.

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Tullyswimmer t1_j5pvrxi wrote

And what Reddit doesn't realize is that if you bury lines, when you have to cross 93 in the whites, it takes significantly more cable, even cost of drilling aside. Much easier to put two tall poles up and run a "straight" line across a valley then go down and back up.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5qijfs wrote

I don't disagree with the latter half of that, the line from QBC would be great. But it doesn't have to be a massive increase- a small increase, say 1c/kwh, and then use the proceeds to begin burying everything- start from the outside (rural areas will be easier to do this in and can be done with smaller impact to people trying to get around) and work your way into the cities. 1c/kwh across the entire state will not have a massive effect on each individual's bills, I'm a rather heavy user at 2800KWH and my bill would increase $28, but across the entire state, that adds up quickly.

Not to mention there are federal incentives for burying power lines (because the rest of the country has more or less figured out that burying them vastly improves resiliency against weather) to help offset the cost.

Last I saw it cost around $11500/mi to bury lines- not cheap by any means, but it could be covered in <10 years by a 1c/kwh increase statewide. Additionally, most new construction already has buried lines, no reason not to make that the standard.

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Tullyswimmer t1_j5titgq wrote

> Last I saw it cost around $11500/mi to bury lines- not cheap by any means, but it could be covered in <10 years by a 1c/kwh increase statewide. Additionally, most new construction already has buried lines, no reason not to make that the standard.

Where did you see that? Because if it cost $2/foot to bury lines, the power companies would have buried all of them years ago.

The absolute cheapest per mile number I have found recently is $1.5 million to bury lines. Even in 2017, when Hydro Quebec floated the idea of burying 11 miles of lines (that didn't require any horizontal drilling, mind you), it was $4 million per mile

So if you have a way to put high voltage transmission lines in the ground for $2/foot, write Eversource and tell them because they'll be all over that.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5uz5yg wrote

This was in regards to poles and local service, the long distance HV Transmission isn't commonly buried AFAIK.

1

Tullyswimmer t1_j5v0pnj wrote

Doesn't have to be long distance HV transmission. Even just like 34k or 46k that would serve a neighborhood is going to get costly to bury.

1

vexingsilence t1_j5qljju wrote

Rural maybe, if it doesn't interfere with their ability to upgrade the lines as the population grows. Cities.. that may be a hard sell. Doubt a lot of people would want their yards ripped up just to get the electricity that they already get.

That's all assuming your analysis is correct, which I'm skeptical of.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5qricx wrote

> Doubt a lot of people would want their yards ripped up just to get the electricity that they already get.

I dunno, a simple "Hey we're going to tear it up, put it back as best we can, but at the end of it you'll have power that will never go down due to weather" I bet the vast majority would be on board.

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vexingsilence t1_j5qsc1u wrote

Doubt it since power outages in the cities are pretty rare. Then how would the street lights work? Have to replace the wood poles with ones with interior wiring? But then the cable/phone/internet and in some cases fire alarm are all hanging on the existing poles. To do it right would be a lot move involved.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5qtu89 wrote

> But then the cable/phone/internet and in some cases fire alarm are all hanging on the existing poles.

They solved this problem elsewhere... they buried those too, and is also a great way to defray the costs so it's not 100% on the electric company. Maybe ask ATT/comcast to dip into their portion of the $1,000,000,000,000 (yes, 1 TRILLION DOLLARS) that has been given to internet providers to increase broadband availability that never got used appropriately to cover some of the cost?

0

vexingsilence t1_j5qufgy wrote

Yea, right. They'd just jack our rates even more. Probably end up in court since the utilities won't look kindly on Eversource trying to pass on some of the costs. And it's not the same phone/cable company throughout the state, to complicate things further.

Or.. you know, just leave the wires on the poles and call it done.

1

AKBigDaddy t1_j5rxvzt wrote

Until the next storm and then we re hang them. Those will last until the next storm. And so on

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vexingsilence t1_j5sev2v wrote

You make it sound like everything falls off the poles every storm. They'll fix it. If it's that much of a problem, get a generator.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5uzk6e wrote

> If it's that much of a problem, get a generator.

What a solution! Instead of everyone paying a few extra dollars on their light bill and improving things for everyone, people should go out and spend $10k+ on a standby generator! Or $1k and only power a few items.

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vexingsilence t1_j5v09de wrote

Precisely. Why do I want to pay anything extra for your comfort and convenience? You chose to live someplace where infrastructure is lacking, you weren't forced to live there. Find a solution with your own money, you're not welcome to mine.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5w174s wrote

Ok boomer. How does it feel knowing that you, and people like you, are actively making the world a worse place?

1

vexingsilence t1_j5w1zdk wrote

Move to a city if you want more reliable electricity. Geniuses like you choose to live in areas that don't have the creature comforts you want, then you bitch about it and try to force the rest of us to pay it.

1

AKBigDaddy t1_j5yglkj wrote

I grew up in fucking Alaska, they even figured this shit out. It's assholes like you digging your feet in holding everyone back.

1

vexingsilence t1_j5z1nm6 wrote

Move back to Alaska then. Or pay for it yourself. You're not even from around here but you want people to pay to increase the reliability of your electric service? That's some entitlement.

1

AKBigDaddy t1_j5z3576 wrote

> Or pay for it yourself.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, I pay for my portion, you pay for yours, and by everyone pitching in and paying a small portion of it, we all get more reliable power.

1

vexingsilence t1_j5z3spi wrote

No, because it will cost a lot more per service point in rural areas than it will in denser city areas. Yet when work like this gets done, the costs tend to be evenly distributed. Besides which, we don't need this in the cities. The power doesn't go out that often. Might be nice for aesthetic reasons but it's not worth the disruption.

1

Tullyswimmer t1_j5tiew4 wrote

Except most people know that that would be a complete lie. The powerlines in front of your house are almost never the ones that cause an outage. Outages usually happen upstream when they affect thousands of people.

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AKBigDaddy t1_j5uzd5h wrote

In 5 years in this particular house we've lost power at least a couple days every winter, it has consistently been local lines down due to trees or weather.

1

ElisabetSobeckPhD t1_j5s0gop wrote

they literally just raised rates like $.11/kwh

2

AKBigDaddy t1_j5uz0oo wrote

And would your lifestyle be dramatically different if they raised them .12 instead of .11?

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ElisabetSobeckPhD t1_j5v175e wrote

Personally no, but just saying "raise rates $0.01/kwh and bury the lines" is likely a vast oversimplification. Retrofitting buried electric across the state is a monumental task, when you consider the geography combined with a bunch of people who don't want people interfering with their property. Also consider the huge amount of people that were struggling to afford living here, even before the rate hikes.

I read this article from 2009 that makes it seem fairly unpalatable.

>A rough price tag puts the cost at $17 billion or more. To put that in perspective, cleaning up from the ice storm cost the utilities about $80 million, enough to bury about 100 miles of line. It would take the cost of the damage from 90 similar ice storms to pay for burying half of the state's power lines.

>"It does become more economical to hope for the best and clean up the mess," said Seth Wheeler of New Hampshire Electric Co-op.

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01Zaphod t1_j5pfytj wrote

What pisses me off is not losing power during the storm, but losing it two or 3 days after the storm when there are clear skies and no wind. Happens a lot where I live, and it makes no sense.

Put the damn lines underground!

5

Tullyswimmer t1_j5pvjri wrote

Squirrels. I've lost it a few times due to them. They'll get up on the lines and jump to the transformers and, well...

Also, in the terrain we have putting them underground is expensive as all hell and can only be done 6 months out of the year.

4

UnfairAd7220 t1_j5q9awa wrote

You think a billion dollars is pocket change?

−1

Acanthaceae_Square t1_j5qnuls wrote

Cumulatively compared to the cost of continuing to repair outages and downed lines from storms, plus associated costs of not having power, year after year? Yes

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01Zaphod t1_j5yj5s2 wrote

I’m not going to argue with you there. I’m with you on that.

However, if the infrastructure had been put underground to start with, recurring maintenance costs due to inclement weather, natural disasters and animal/human accidents would be dramatically less than it is now. A bonus to that situation would be better protection against EMP discharge or terrorist attack.

If you think about it, all of our other services are underground - waste (for obvious reasons), water, propane, natural gas, etc. Why not our power grid?

From a historical perspective, I believe the decision was made to utilize the existing telegraph structures to transfer electricity because it was cheaper and faster to install. I’m not a historian, so don’t quote me on that - it’s just conjecture.

1

[deleted] t1_j5rci2y wrote

Because Boston has buried utilities. I lived in Toronto for 20 years and didn’t lose power until somebody hit a transformer and then put for a week. Same pile bro

1

JayBisky OP t1_j5oglke wrote

I was looking this type of comment

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Able_Cunngham603 t1_j5r2k95 wrote

This type of answer over-simplifies the problem. Burying thousands of miles of power lines would not be a cheap endeavor in the best of circumstances (and NH taxpayers are notoriously cheap).

And trying to do this in NH would be even more complicated (/expensive) than in other areas. We do live in the Granite State after all.

Carving out that much Granite would upset the Lizardfolk—and that’s not a problem any of us want.

3

MusicalMerlin1973 t1_j5ow5jq wrote

Granite state. There’s a lot of boulders lining those roads. And stone walls that come right up to the road. Those are historic you can’t touch so….

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ramblinroseEU72 t1_j5owhwa wrote

Absolutely, and the fact that much of the ground is bedrock or extremely rocky so it's hard to dig and lay cables in.

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MusicalMerlin1973 t1_j5p3xif wrote

I’d also say this: I’m dating myself here. I remember when we got cable in the 80s. I’m pretty sure some of the town has that underground but a lot don’t. Same with fiber optic that tds put in a decade ago.

I’m not a fan of losing power. When er have a major event my road is often 5 days without. We got it back briefly yesterday for 40 minutes. When our first kid was born my parents gave us a generator for Christmas so we could keep the house warm when we lose power. It is what it is.

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warren_stupidity t1_j5poyob wrote

Oddly enough most new construction uses underground conduit for utility wires. I guess the bedrock is only a problem on the roads.

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Tullyswimmer t1_j5pv2sf wrote

Yeah, because most construction isn't taking place on bedrock.

Running them underground from the pole to a building makes sense. Running them underground everywhere in the terrain we have in this state doesn't.

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warren_stupidity t1_j5qy7sj wrote

Well ok I'm sure there may be geographical features in some areas that prohibit underground conduit, but for example, my road is pretty much exactly the same region as my house, and all the new-ish (like within the last 30-40 years) houses here have underground connected to the poles on the street. We have a lot of long driveways too. Most of the rest of my town is pretty much the same, except the newer developments and clusters all have underground systems for the whole area. So, in summary, sure they could bury a lot, perhaps almost all of the local distribution systems, they just won't because it doesn't make short term financial sense.

0

Tullyswimmer t1_j5rk0ic wrote

As someone else mentioned, if you wanna see your electricity bill skyrocket because of distribution fees, by all means... There's a reason that rural areas (and not just in NH, all over the world) don't bury conduit. It's expensive as hell.

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warren_stupidity t1_j5td7sm wrote

Ok, but you started out claiming that it couldn’t be done because of ‘bedrock’, and now your argument is it’s too expensive. I doubt the expense argument too. As noted, new developments are almost all putting utilities underground. It apparently isn’t all that expensive. But yes there is obviously a cost. The offset is drastically reduced maintenance costs. The problem is that it takes a long time for the maintenance offset to balance out the installation expense.

1

Tullyswimmer t1_j5thoe5 wrote

> I doubt the expense argument too

Seattle buried some power lines in 2007. It cost about $2500 per foot - and the way that article is written, it doesn't necessarily cover the whole cost.

A much cheaper proposition by Hydro Quebec was floated in 2017. And by "much cheaper" I mean it was $4.2 million per mile instead of the $13 million per mile it cost in Seattle.

Generally speaking, burying powerlines costs about 10x as much as running them overhead, and the numbers in that article come out to be just under $4 million per mile.

Even the most recent prices I can find, for PG&E, put a number between $1.5M and $3M per mile with the costs being paid by the people who are served by the electric utility, and the costs being dependent on how much the process is.

The reason that housing developments are putting utilities underground is that burying power cables rated for 200 amps when you already have trenches for water and sewer doesn't add a huge expense over running the cables overhead, since most of the cost, at that point, is the cable. Because for residential installs, the cost per foot is only about $8, unless there's local regulations and rules that make it significantly more expensive, because there's limited capacity in underground conduits and cable vaults.

And again, all of these costs are basic costs. They don't account for the type of terrain we have in NH. The closest we could get would be the cost from Hydro Quebec but even there the soil is much flatter and they weren't going to have to do any horizontal drilling to make it work - That was all using existing infrastructure for buried cable. Horizontal drilling is much harder when you have as much rock in your soil as we do.

1

TwinTtoo t1_j5ojzbd wrote

Trees. Maine is cutting their trees year round around power lines. NH does not do they. The only time I’ve seen them cut a tree was when it is already in someone’s yard/ middle of the road.

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SRTie4k t1_j5okqg8 wrote

We at least partially have the deregulated environment to thank for that. Eversource invests the absolute minimum required to keep their equipment operational. If you look at the other utilities in this state, like NH Power Co-op, they literally cut trees down within 10ft of the lines down to the ground, while Eversource only trims branches 6ft around the lines themselves.

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bassboat1 t1_j5ov0sf wrote

PSNH was even worse than the current Eversource. They only sent out cutting crews after irate citizens lit up their elected officials.

8

Psychological-Cry221 t1_j5perrq wrote

It’s hard to cut down trees as aggressively as some would suggest. Lots of people get pretty upset when it’s a tree on their own property.

7

SRTie4k t1_j5pgo6h wrote

From what I know their policy is to do it and ask for forgiveness later. My mother in law lives in Rumney and had a bunch of trees on her property abutting the road cut down without her input.

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but at some point we have to ask ourselves what trade-offs we need to make to keep our power infrastructure more reliable, especially with the push towards everything being electric. Underground service would be great, but it's not feasible in most of the state, and I'd assume prohibitively expensive.

1

TwinTtoo t1_j5oodds wrote

Sounds like this may be the likely culprit

3

northursalia t1_j5om0kf wrote

I can't speak for providers other than mine, but Unitil in at least the seacoast has crews (usually Asplundh) cutting trees back constantly - I see them or the results of their work all the time. They called 3 weeks ago asking to trim my trees away from the power lines, and it's a small apple tree.

The town and/or homeowners/landowners have to allow the utilities to do tree trimming work. Can't fault them if they are asked and told no. The large storm in December was the first time we've lost power here for any length of time since the last huge ice storm in 2012 I believe it was.

6

Ok-Cantaloupe7160 t1_j5oo1ke wrote

The Co-op was always trimming trees when I lived in an area serviced by them. Rarely lost power. Now I live in Eversource land. Been lucky so far but I never see them trimming trees.

2

Tullyswimmer t1_j5pv97p wrote

My parents have co-op, and the co-op trims trees constantly.

My parents also lose power constantly, for hours at a time, because the co-op only does last mile and relies on eversource upstream.

3

Altruistic-Rise6398 t1_j5pc7dv wrote

That’s actually not true. Eversource has cut several trees down in my yard and reassess every year

1

TwinTtoo t1_j5pjca3 wrote

This could be region specific. I’ve never seen them cutting trees proactively before a storm or before the trees even fall. I’ve only seen them after the fact

4

f2000sa t1_j5pk7a4 wrote

Yes, they cut lots of tree in Hollis

1

CannaQueen73 t1_j5og6ot wrote

Have you seen all the trees down?

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JayBisky OP t1_j5ogb84 wrote

Yes and I’m surprised we have any trees left after the storm we had last month 😂

8

GraniteGeekNH t1_j5osvm3 wrote

While penny-pinching utilities who don't want to spend money on maintenance are much of the problem, we residents have to take some of the blame - any time there's tree-trimming around lines people complain bitterly about it.

There was a court case 25+ years ago when a guy - I believe it was one of the founders of Sanders Associates but I might be remembering that wrong - chased away a tree crew with a chainsaw because he didn't want them cutting trees along the road in front of his property.

12

Psychological-Cry221 t1_j5pf62z wrote

I agree that people can get irrationally upset about Eversource cutting trees in their own property. However, they have massively improved in maintenance. In the 80’s and 90’s the outrages were so much worse in my experience

7

GraniteGeekNH t1_j5pu1cf wrote

Part of the improvement is smarter switches. It used to be that if the power went out due to a tree/branch on a line you had to wait for a crew to come out and fix it. Now in many cases, switches automatically reroute power via other lines and you get back on quickly.

My power flickered off for a few seconds at least 10 times, probably more, on Monday. Annoying because it reset the internet router each time, but way better than losing power for hours at a time.

3

SomeSortofDisaster t1_j5oxsba wrote

>chased away a tree crew with a chainsaw because he didn't want them cutting trees along the road in front of his property.

Those were rhododendrons and it was the road agent who got chased, but yes.

5

redditthrower888999 t1_j5p7xqf wrote

That's hilarious. How the heck were rhododendrons even causing a problem unless they were encroaching the road, that's insane.

5

SomeSortofDisaster t1_j5q0vmu wrote

They're planted right on the side of the road and the house is on a sharp curve. The current resident isn't any more reasonable and has filled his yard with a whole bunch of junk.

3

GraniteGeekNH t1_j5p4192 wrote

Thanks - I knew I was getting details wrong.

Chasing off the road agent! That isn't messing around.

2

creddit_card t1_j5p1i3g wrote

After losing power for 20 hours recently, I decided to get a generator to power the whole house. Bought a portable one and installed a 50 amp inlet going into my breaker box myself, with interlock to prevent backfeed. $1500 total.

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BeltfedOne t1_j5p2tzh wrote

This is the way.

4

vexingsilence t1_j5paje6 wrote

Until some masshole drives up and steals it.

0

BeltfedOne t1_j5pc24u wrote

That would be an entertaining attempt...

6

vexingsilence t1_j5pcmwv wrote

Target practice? I remember during one of the larger storms, friends of mine that live in areas that were blacked out for a while were seeing vehicles with MA plates moving slowly past houses. One even stopped at one of their houses, was peeking through the windows. Left after the home owner walked over and revealed the pistol on his hip. NH really needs to build a wall on our southern border.

0

ScolaMoney t1_j5ooogp wrote

Maine Alaska and New Hampshire have the 3 worst infrastructures of all the states

10

PM_Georgia_Okeefe t1_j5omspe wrote

When lines go down, that stops power from getting to homes.

8

Seahearn4 t1_j5scpox wrote

We need some of that wireless electricity. The conspiracy theorists would need more than a ton foil hat to protect themselves, though.

1

PM_Georgia_Okeefe t1_j5tl8xu wrote

I have overhead wires coming to my house. The neighborhood behind me has buried lines. Neither mattered when a transformer blew up down the street and cut off everyone.

1

chait1199 t1_j5oo2hu wrote

If I had to take a risky, wild guess with a gun to my head, I would say it’s partially snow packed trees coming down and partially a shitty, outdated grid.

6

MamaBearForestWitch t1_j5opm6v wrote

We used to lose power many times every winter. About ten years ago, my town made a concerted effort to trim or remove trees and branches near power lines; we've since had maybe 20% as many outages as before.

6

Ok-Cantaloupe7160 t1_j5otqty wrote

It seems to be concentrated in the South, where most people live, which makes sense. Fewer power line to lose up north.

Anyone have stats on which providers have the most outages over the years? When I lived in NH Co Op land we rarely lost power. They trim branches year round. Only in major outages. Now I live in Eversource land. We’ve been lucky but I rarely see them trimming branches.

5

movdqa t1_j5ow1rb wrote

Trees. Our last outage was the ice storm of 2011. It's been fine since then when they upgraded the grid. We are near a main road and we have underground wiring. That's a good combination for avoiding power outages.

4

SheeEttin t1_j5p2qki wrote

Yeah, that ice storm pissed off enough people to light up their representatives and utilities to actually do a lot of tree trimming. I'm guessing it's been long enough since then that they've slacked off again.

5

SomeSortofDisaster t1_j5ont3p wrote

Our wires are above ground and branches drop onto wires. We can't realistically bury the majority of the electrical infrastructure because the ground freezes in the winter and if a break occurs below ground you may not be able to access it until the spring thaw.

The trees aren't trimmed well because the power companies put the bare minimum into maintenance and people bitch and cry when they see tree trimmers out in the summer.

3

redditthrower888999 t1_j5p7lwk wrote

Most new developments are getting the lines buried, at least what I've seen. It's all the old lines are is simply not getting buried, too much work.

7

Jrzgrl1119 t1_j5qrlzw wrote

I used to live in Alaska. The power lines are all buried in Alaska. The ground has a ton of rock and frost. Somehow I never lost power while living there.

2

MusicalMerlin1973 t1_j5ovz1n wrote

I don’t know about other towns but mine had labeled some roads “historic scenic”. Most of the road has to be lined with trees. Setback before you can have open space is significant. Blah blah blah. The utility does come through to trim, but they send out notices before hand that you have to respond to: yes I’m ok with you trimming trees on my property line, and whether you want the trimmed branches or they can dispose of them.

A lot of people either ignore or forget to send those back, or want that scenery!

So. Lines come down.

Also, got to remember we are a lot more forested than we were 70-80 years ago. My dad used to watch the fireworks in Nashua from the top of the ridge on the family property in north Hollis in the 50s. A lot of what you see lining the roads is new growth and it’s all pine. Those keep their needles in winter so a lot more real estate for wet snow and ice too cling to and bring those limbs down.

I think you’ll find areas where there is still field lining the roads have a lot less downed lines.

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skudak t1_j5q06fj wrote

I live on one of those roads. The trees are all massive old oaks and within feet of the power lines. Surprisingly, I've only lost power once in the 8 years I've lived on this road. My theory is that since it's all woods and no open area, the wind isn't as strong and mostly goes over the tops of the trees. I used to live a town over on the edge of a field and the wind coming off the field was intense and we'd see pines knocked down all the time

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anonamean t1_j5p11ct wrote

It’s a bit of both. Nhs power grid is very old and very cheaply made, add to that power companies that don’t cut back trees and brush as often as they should and you get a power grid that goes out often during storms

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Leemcardhold t1_j5pj2r7 wrote

Most forested state in the nation, or 1% point behind Maine

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piscatator t1_j5pwyft wrote

On the question of VT vs NH on power outages. Green Mountain power is better than Eversource on the whole. VT has better maintenance of its grid. NH had lots of suburban development but is still very forested. VT is more agricultural. People in NH prefer to manage there forests with a light touch. This leads to more natural selection and dead and dying trees that love to find power lines to fall onto.

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rizub_n_tizug t1_j5ondfr wrote

Tons of trees and old ass circuits

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Strict_Zebra_3585 t1_j5p1acc wrote

The power company doesn't own the trees. They need permission to trim. If someone doesn't let them trim the tree they can't. The tree on your property is yours. So, When your power is out, blame your neighbor who's tree fell on the line. The only way to eliminate it would be to cut down every tree within 100' of a powerline. And that isn't going to happen with the environmentalist.

As far as the underground thing goes, it's the granite state. It would be so ridiculously expensive to put everything underground that it isn't going to happen. Also, when underground does go bad, and believe me, it does, finding and fixing the problem is its own special nightmare

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JayBisky OP t1_j5q5v0k wrote

I just got power back on in hamsptead now at 15:10

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Few-Afternoon-6276 t1_j5qa0hr wrote

Because no one trims their own trees, trees are allowed to grow tangled into the lines, old trees don’t get taken down till they fall down… live free or die!

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DareMe603 t1_j5ral3b wrote

Wait till everyone's charging cars from their homes. O.o Think the lines & old infrastructure will handle it?

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livefreeordie2-75th t1_j5sxfp3 wrote

The simple answer: Trees. Wet snow. Branches fall on power lines.

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Doug_Shoe t1_j5t2kvm wrote

much of the grid is from the 1950s. Many more houses have been built, and larger houses with much larger electrical service and many more appliances.

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cutyolegsout t1_j5p5eal wrote

I live in a city and very rarely lose power. If you live in the boonies, buy a generator.

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fagsdongs t1_j5pwm0v wrote

telephone line was jus hit in ossipee

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Thorking t1_j5q1do2 wrote

Trees, lots of trees.

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ForklkftJones t1_j5q1tw0 wrote

Just got the text that we should be expecting the same for tomorrow. Yay.

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ForklkftJones t1_j5q3hq1 wrote

LMAO of course my power went out as soon as I posted this. 4th surge today. 🤣🤣

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John_th_Faptist t1_j5q4gzq wrote

It's a state full of bigass bull pines and we get a shit load of snow.....dare I say it's not an issue with the grid lol

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Curious_Buffalo_1206 t1_j5qdqih wrote

It’s both. If you look at the power grid from a high level, power lines are just the edges of the power grid, connecting producer and consumer nodes. We have an unreliable power grid because we have so many lines going all through the hinterlands, and so little redundancy. But you can’t have redundancy without density.

IMO this 20th century model is fundamentally unsustainable without massive government subsidies. It’s not Eversource’s fault. They’re never going to be able to trim enough trees on such sprawling infrastructure.

If you want grid electricity, live in town. If you want to live on an acre plot, get solar panels. If your home can’t support sewer lines, it probably shouldn’t support electrical lines either. On that note, we really need to bury more of the transmission lines connecting towns and cities, too.

It’s going to be a tough couple of decades as entitled exurban Americans slowly begin to realize that their lifestyle depends on massive government handouts and is completely unsustainable long term. A lot of them will attribute it to “live in pod eat bugs” conspiracy nonsense, but it’s just a regression to historical norms.

We only built houses in this soulless sprawl for one human worth of time. We lived in towns and villages for thousands of years, and in tribes before that. This current built environment is anti-human. We were never meant to live like this. Car addiction has been more devastating to communities than drug addiction.

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JayBisky OP t1_j5qe6xg wrote

Very astute observation I have solar slated for install in the summer I'm only on little more than acre but if I can have some more sustainable utilities that keep me semi grid resistant I will do it. I've been looking into whatever option I can to reduce my bills lol

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Curious_Buffalo_1206 t1_j5qen92 wrote

Mind you, it doesn’t necessarily have to be rooftop solar either. A subdivision could pool resources together and do community solar or wind, too. At any rate, the future of the electric grid is more decentralization.

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firewolf8385 t1_j5qeg9k wrote

I can’t remember the last time I’ve lost power. Definitely been a couple years. I live just outside of Concord

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Gatsby1923 t1_j5qfy6v wrote

We are the second most forested state, second only to Maine but with a much higher population density in our forested areas. The emerald ash borer is wiping out our ash trees for a few years now, and they are coming crashing down. Tree crews can't keep up with it.

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Moonfroggykitten t1_j5qw9jt wrote

Last time I lost power was over 6 years ago and that was due to a summer storm/tree. So as far a frequently, I don’t see that as an issue. When you say frequently, how often are you referring to and is it all storm related issues?

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Mysterious-Cat-2201 t1_j5r4y1o wrote

From my experience here in NH, the towns and utilities are not proactive. They are reactive.

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ralettar t1_j5reph6 wrote

Second most heavily forested state in the country

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Pattmommy t1_j5s001a wrote

Trees! We experienced an 8 day power outage when we lived in Tyngsboro MA and after that National Grid went around trimming a lot of trees and we rarely had any power outages after that. Now we live here in NH in an area with underground utilities and never have power outages. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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sgdulac t1_j5sc283 wrote

Trees, and with warming we get more wet snow. It used to be more light and fluffy. Now its wet and heavy.

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Meriby t1_j5t5dja wrote

We never lost electricity in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc like we have since 2008. We lost our power for 9 days when we lived in Barrington in 2008. After that ice storm, Public Service trimmed back lots of trees in the area. They even took down a lot of trees going up our driveway at no charge. We still lost power for 4 days in 2010 and 2011. I’m guessing it’s because there are more people and more drain on the grid. With the increase of the cost recently, you would hope upgrades would be coming

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maxhinator123 t1_j5t7fo5 wrote

Two factors: sprawl, NH is very sparsely populated, this calls for a lot of lines at risk from trees and it also costs more for the state to operate so inherently lines are in rougher conditions. Mixed use medium density zoning which we see in a lot of other states or Canada has very reliable infrastructure and tax income to upkeep ratios for the city.

Other factor is climate, we are in the sweet spot for snow rain freeze-thaws, this puts ice and weight on trees and lines. Go north more and it's just snow, go south it's just rain.

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lantrick t1_j66azuv wrote

Depends on where you are. I live in "this state" lol and seldom loose power.

Your entire premise is bereft of logic.

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JayBisky OP t1_j66qxnl wrote

Me and my neighbors have lost a collective 5 days of power in the last 3 weeks alone. Perhaps your area isnt an issue but from the numerous comments I'd say there is indeed some logic to this post

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put_me_on_tv t1_j5qjv38 wrote

NH is 82% forested. Powerlines run everywhere. It would be extremely expensive & invasive to cut any tree that has the reach to fall on a line.

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redditthrower888999 t1_j5p6s9b wrote

Do you look outside at all? The roads are narrow and there are a shit ton of trees lining all the roads. Heavy snow and ice = power outages.

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Repulsive65 t1_j5r0l8v wrote

Non union workers that's why..

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Realistic-Step2618 t1_j5srfl8 wrote

NH won’t bury the power lines.

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northursalia t1_j5tf9h9 wrote

The state is not fiscally responsible for power company infrastructure, so I'm not certain why you are saying "NH won't bury the power lines." Cost estimates to bury lines are between $100,000 and $1,000,000 per mile to bury the lines, dependent on what they have to be dug through. Based on the reported 18,000 miles of residential lines on poles, that would be $1.8 billion dollars to $18 billion dollars to accomplish. Not going to happen.

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Realistic-Step2618 t1_j5tjqux wrote

The question was why does NH lose power? The answer is because the power lines are not underground. The cost associated with fixing an outdated and ineffective infrastructure wasn’t part of the question. Or answer.

Relax.

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northursalia t1_j5tkl3h wrote

Pointing out a fault is not a need to relax, it is being grounded in reality. There are more solutions than the one of burying the lines, such as removing trees that encroach on the lines. One is exponentially less expensive than the other. Expense is a factor regardless, since costs will be passed to ratepayers. This isn't a decision in a vacuum. If it wasn't, why not say the solution is to develop wireless power or put a fusion reactor in every home?

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Realistic-Step2618 t1_j5tmdxn wrote

I didn’t say the state or tax payers should do anything. I didn’t suggest a solution. I simply responded to the question.

I hope you get a hug today.

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TurnoverTall t1_j5tctvx wrote

I vaguely recall seeing information that burying the lines caused access and I THINK some sort of induction issues? Maybe someone out there is fluent in power lines!

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Realistic-Step2618 t1_j5tiuak wrote

I remember after the great ice storm of 2008 when people were without power for weeks and we had crews from all over the northeast come to NH to help and again 2 years later we had multi day state wide outages the reason given against burying the lines is the expense to dig them up to fix . But if they were underground, we wouldn’t have lost power in the first place. The cost / time to access an occasional power line issue in the ground is far less expensive and can be done faster than major wide spread outages and upkeep of old poles.

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YouAreHardtoImagine t1_j5uu8vm wrote

My area (home) lost power for 6 days and the reason was strictly trees falling on lines, blocking roads, etc. About 2 years later, major clearing was done (including on a state road where they cut back exponentially). Larger poles, better wiring was replaced. We barely lost power again. Maybe for an hour during a bad thunderstorm. It can’t cost more than burying. Imagine blasting in the WM?

Edit: words

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thrunabulax t1_j5p319z wrote

you know those power lines that NH keeps preventing hydro quebec from sending more power down south?

sure would be handy to have that power in the even of losing part of the grid!

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decayo t1_j5p5auv wrote

The problem isn't supply. It's local lines being downed by trees. The project you are talking about wouldn't help.

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vexingsilence t1_j5pbba0 wrote

Might help if an ice storm hit part of the state and destroyed those types of lines. I watched a line of electric towers fall during the big ice storm. Made a bizarre green glow as the whole line collapsed. They had to evacuate Montréal because they lost two of the three major supply lines going to it. Everyone there has electric heat. No power, everyone freezes.

But yea, generally it's the local circuits. One part gets cut, they all go out. Like old fashioned Christmas lights.

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thrunabulax t1_j5pk36r wrote

thats what anti-techonologists ALWAY whine.

after fighting the electric grid companies tooth and nail for a decade, then you all turn around and whine that your power keeps going out.

if the grid company is not making money, it is going to spend bupkiss keeping the local distribution lines free and clear!

you can not have it both ways

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decayo t1_j5pq5nx wrote

You are the first person that has ever described me as an "anti-technologist". I work at one of the largest tech companies in the world, remotely over the internet, seated in front of a 55 inch QD-OLED that I use as a monitor. I bought 3 new tvs in the last year and have built a new computer at least every 2 years for the last 20. Knowing how the grid works isn't "anti-technologist". The idea that power companies aren't making money, or that the "northern pass" is the only way to fix that, comes from a hopelessly simplistic view of energy policy that is driven entirely by industry propaganda that says "if only you'd give us everything we want everything would be so much better". You're a mark.

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warren_stupidity t1_j5ppl1t wrote

Lol. It’s local delivery that gets broken during storms, not the supply system.

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shizzlesmokes t1_j5ohb5s wrote

Cuz this state sucks dick 🧐

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[deleted] t1_j5oj1l1 wrote

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[deleted] t1_j5oj5hs wrote

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