Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

HardPawns t1_irawv92 wrote

Well, it’s a golden opportunity to learn some basics about economy then.

172

iamapizza t1_irax1kn wrote

Belarushing to disaster

26

diamened t1_iraxcjx wrote

Because it worked so well all the times it was tried, right? RIGHT?

31

jjnefx t1_irazvur wrote

That's not how any of this works

12

Dicios t1_irb3qt0 wrote

Actually interesting what would happen.

Sellers would secretly hike prices? As in cut the portions or add other hidden fees?

Like are the medium/small companies going to go bust due to not being able to make a profit? Has this been done before?

Seems like a fun experiment I wish no country did in practice.

45

kreankorm t1_irb8asc wrote

Replying to Dicios (#46,134)

Venezuela tried it.

To say it went poorly would be an understatement. I recommend jumping down that research rabbit hole if this is a topic that interests you.

52

Fake_William_Shatner t1_irb8hdx wrote

This reminds me of when Virginia banned any mention of global warming or sea level rise to tackle global warming and sea level rise. So now they have to deal with "Persistent flooding of the ocean" -- so, Virginia 1 : Science 0 -- suck it losers!

Oh, and, I don't have to make things up to make a joke; https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/11/republican-new-climate-change-strategy-ban-words-climate-change

10

ZeusKiller97 t1_irb9vqf wrote

That’s…that’s not how it works.

waiting for a Romania-styled coup 2.0

1

v4por t1_irbai7z wrote

Belarus Leader bans products and services in attempt to tackle inflation (ftfy)

3

mymar101 t1_irbcu7k wrote

Why not? I have always seen that as the main problem. Price always raises higher and faster than people can afford.

−11

8ew8135 t1_irbeafb wrote

I, for one, am eager to see a change to demand-side economics. This isn’t a magic bullet, but an unregulated demand-side has obviously been creating extreme wealth and extreme poverty.

I would prefer something in the middle.

−1

Heliolord t1_irbhgd0 wrote

Replying to anonymousbach (#46,460)

You don't understand! Those previous attempts weren't real! This time they'll get it right! They're way smarter and not corrupt like all those people who tried it before.

7

Khemith t1_irbj08e wrote

Nixon did this and it worked. Price bans are a good tool to fight inflation.

−6

sunsparkda t1_irbka3k wrote

Replying to mymar101 (#46,601)

Because if the price the person you are buying from has to pay goes up (because they are buying from outside the market with price fixing) to the point where it's more than he's legally allowed to sell to you + the expenses in selling it, he either "loses" it to the black market or just stops selling it altogether. Either way, you don't get to buy it for the price set, and all sorts of very bad knock on effects happen that make you immensely worse off.

5

ddejong42 t1_irbkxko wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#46,669)

The legal market says "fuck this, I'm not selling rice for half of what it costs me to buy it". There is no longer any rice on the shelves. But the guy selling rice out of the back of a van for 5 times the legally allowed price (that some store probably reported as "stolen" and wrote it off) has some.

15

sunsparkda t1_irbl61m wrote

Replying to mymar101 (#47,020)

At which point you are still paying the higher prices (probably even higher than if the government hadn't engaged in price fixing), and you have all the fun and games of dealing with criminals instead of a legal business.

6

Bill_Nye-LV t1_irbp7m4 wrote

Well boys we did it, inflation is no more

2

MagicPeacockSpider t1_irbq1mr wrote

Replying to pookshuman (#46,963)

Yes they appear to be.

Very similar outlook here too.

A supply crisis disrupting the market. Price controls as an emergency temporary measure.

Huge political success and only a recession as a result. Basic right wing and republican economic playbook.

22

Negative-Emotion-795 t1_irbrmao wrote

Hey, it worked for Diocletian, amirite?

>The Edict (AD 301) was criticized by Lactantius . . . who blamed the emperors for the inflation and told of fighting and bloodshed that erupted from price tampering. By the end of Diocletian's reign in 305, the Edict was for all practical purposes ignored. The Roman economy as a whole was not substantively stabilized until Constantine's coinage reforms in the 310s.

Guys?

17

Cruxifux t1_irbv11w wrote

Anything to avoid real, systemic change.

0

Hadren-Blackwater t1_irbv11y wrote

Replying to Khemith (#46,921)

>Nixon did it.

Belarus is obviously pining for the good ol' soviet economy, where the state sets up prices for the economy but at the same time expect shelves to not be empty.

And some people wonder why communism/socialism lost.

6

Hadren-Blackwater t1_irbvvz5 wrote

Next he will print more money to make everyone richer

6

Hadren-Blackwater t1_irbwpst wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#46,077)

>but for basic goods, people don't have a choice.

Either way, it will end in empty shelves or price increases.

You can't really force the free market to do what you want for free and/or without harm to the wider economy.

5

Bangemkikkoks t1_irbxj7a wrote

Replying to Khemith (#47,575)

>The Nixon Shock has been widely considered to be a political success, but an economic failure in bringing on the 1973–1975 recession, the stagflation of the 1970s, and the instability of floating currencies. The dollar plunged by a third during the 1970s.

From your own damn link oh wise one

7

Hadren-Blackwater t1_irbxsa8 wrote

Replying to nonlawyer (#47,160)

>He should simply make it illegal for this to fail. Duh.

>Man this economy stuff’s easy, idk why we’re always listening to those eggheads with degrees

Some barely literate soviet peasants want to talk to you.

5

algerbanan t1_irbysxu wrote

Belarus, the last standing soviet republic

3

CloudyEngineer t1_irbzgmu wrote

Better title: Belarus leader abdicates responsibility for economy to the black market

2

peensteen t1_irc2g0o wrote

As the royal carriage drew abreast, Symmachus rushed out from the crowd and shouted, "My lord, my mother's dying--"

"I forbid her to do so on this glorious night!" the lord shouted, laughing and scattering coin into the throng. Symmachus was close enough to smell wine on the royal breath.

3

exhausted_chemist t1_irc2pf0 wrote

You want a black market? Cause that's how you get a black market

1

Forever_Ambergris t1_irc5mgk wrote

Replying to Dicios (#46,134)

Belarus has already done this at the start of the pandemic in 2020. Not sure what the end result was economy-wise, but people stoped buying as much and small business owners definetely weren't happy

1

StThoughtWheelz t1_ircg3iy wrote

No chance that backfires. I suggest investing in wheelbarrows.

1

Saucialiste t1_ircgojz wrote

Modern problems require modern solutions

1

Politenessman_ t1_irch9oo wrote

Great idea. if only someone had thought of that sooner.

Luckily black markets aren't a thing.

2

Khemith t1_ircpsuq wrote

Replying to Hadren-Blackwater (#47,595)

"soviet economy" You do know that price caps have been around long before the soviets right?

Gee I wonder why the Earth is dying from only 200 years of capitalism. McDonalds on every corner and 1% owning the most they have ever had in the history of the world. Such a "win"

−13

Newish_Username t1_ircy5oj wrote

Replying to This4ChanHacker (#47,955)

That is sad, and hilarious. But I'm glad that Venezuela did what it did, to show the world what happens when you go full state-sponsored socialism and business takeover.

Zoo animals, Frank. They ate the Zoo animals!

−3

mmrrbbee t1_ird2h6e wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#46,641)

Sri Lanka got screwed by the top making them go organic because the leaders stole all their money and couldn’t afford fertilizer and tried to cover it up with spin.

2

internet_spy t1_irdp5we wrote

The best way to stop inflation is to make cost of living set in ink and chains, 1000 IQ play

1

versebadger1 t1_ire3339 wrote

Replying to Newish_Username (#49,501)

The ideals of socialism are the opposite of the ideals of business, they're diametrically opposed, even. If Venezuela's industries had been owned by the public and benefits shared a la socialism they wouldn't have had any of the internal problems at all, they would have had a ton of external ones later, but they could easily have fed and kept safe their population, if it had been truly socialist.

It was the lack of money and assets for the people and the hoarding of them by private individuals that caused that part of their whole mess, not the concept of sharing and public ownership. Plenty more as well obvs, but the wealth was never spread out to actual venezuelans en masse.

2

diacewrb t1_ire5sru wrote

Us brits are not in a position to criticise given that we have price capped our energy costs.

For some, our water bills should be lowered because water companies were dumping sewage everywhere. I believe the government is punishing these companies by forcing discounts to end customers instead of having to pay a fine.

1

TranscendentCabbage t1_irec8mr wrote

Of course, just do everything possible instead of just raising fucking wages

1

altrussia t1_ireh0m4 wrote

Replying to BraethanMusic (#50,101)

It's like those people making poor decision don't learn from people making the exact same poor decisions thinking it will work for them when it didn't work for those..

0

Magerfaker t1_irejpd6 wrote

Interesting to see all the comments who think that somehow capping prices is a communist invention.

1

rainer_d t1_iren4wn wrote

Isn’t the EU trying the same with caps on energy prices?

1

hesh582 t1_ireobe9 wrote

Replying to Dicios (#46,134)

Maybe it was interesting at one point, but this has been tried so many goddamn times and we know what happens.

It works a bit, at first. Then the local real economy becomes more and more black market, while the "official" economy grows more and more fucked.

Eventually, if it's taken far enough everything dependent on imports breaks down. Which, today, generally means "everything".

2

NewHedgehog2547 t1_iretlce wrote

Why should we let corporations keep their existing profit margins if it means suffering and hardship for working people? Companies often increase prices well above inflation with no intention of bringing prices back down.

1

supershotmd t1_irf5ezm wrote

Replying to Dicios (#46,134)

In Venezuela what happened is that people started to only accept bartering. Nobody accepted currency anymore. You want a loaf of bread? Well what do you have to trade for it (because I sure as shit aren't giving it to you for the official government price).

1

BraethanMusic t1_irf7x36 wrote

Replying to Newish_Username (#52,686)

Imagine disagreeing with a point that you very clearly did not understand. My point wasn't "socialism good", it was the indisputable fact that Venezuela's situation was caused by massive political mismanagement. It had nothing to do with their system of governance. Put the same people in the same positions in a capitalist or any other variation economy, and the same things happen. By the way, animals being eaten because of the crisis caused by said mismanagement is by far the most absolutely asinine argument you could possibly try to use against socialism, regardless if "socialism good" is my stance or not.

Maybe you'll understand that when you stop correlating age with comparative political and economic understanding.

1

Hadren-Blackwater t1_irfhvci wrote

Replying to RhythmRobber (#52,611)

>You can't force, but he's saying that regulation is still necessary. Too much regulation and too little regulation are both just as bad for the average person in the long run

It's best to support and aid the market rather than dictating it to go against economic gravity.

Like the US does, it supports farmers by regulations that make ethanol made from corn be part of gasoline.

This regulation supports farmers, makes fuel cheaper for consumers AND is good for the environment.

See? Capitalism is like science and nature, forces that can't be suppressed, not evil or good, simply a force of human nature.

It is by embracing Capitalism and incorporating it into your POV that environmentalism can prosper.

If tomorrow someone discovers/creates a material that is much cheaper and/or more efficient than fossil fuels/hydrocarbons then you will see capitalists be among its strongest supporters.

Like i said, Capitalism and capitalists are forces of human nature, they don’t care about if something is good or bad for the environment, you or me, or even Capitalism itself (see big corporations selling socialist merch and material, you can literally buy the communist manifesto from Amazon)

It is by accepting Capitalism and directing it naturally towards things that achieve environmentalist goals can we achieve a realistic and sustainable future for our planet.

1

RhythmRobber t1_irfnsnv wrote

Replying to Hadren-Blackwater (#53,080)

You're close, but I think it's better to think of economic systems as tools instead that need to be wielded appropriately. The problems we see is that we adopt economic systems like religions that can't be switched. Capitalism is good for stimulating growth, but extended use of it ultimately ends in a consolidation of wealth and power.

Socialism is good during times of peace and abundance, or after periods of consolidation through capitalism that requires a redistribution of wealth (middle class citizens with redistributed wealth could then have the means to innovate and grow new sectors if you then switch back from socialism to capitalism, for example.

Hell, even authoritarianism has its uses, although it's difficult (but not impossible) to institute temporarily. The handling of COVID is a perfect example of a proper time for authoritarianism for the good of humanity. Too many people were too dumb to follow the rules that could have made the impacts of COVID substantially less, meaning less deaths and less of a hit on the global economy and supply chain. There have been countries that successfully have used temporary authoritarian means for the good of the citizens, and then those powers were abandoned. It's a dangerous move, but the tool itself is just a force, like you said.

So yeah, they're all tools, but as the saying goes "if a hammer is your only tool, then everything starts to look like a nail", and you can cause some real damage when you don't use the right tool for the job. I think the problem arose mainly during the cold war when US vs Russia became Capitalism vs Communism, and economic systems were forced into our personal identities, and we were taught that capitalism was the best system for everything ever, even though it only won out in that particular situation because that situation called for rapid growth, which is something that capitalism is good for.

1

Hadren-Blackwater t1_irfvpmm wrote

Replying to RhythmRobber (#53,351)

>Capitalism is good for stimulating growth, but extended use of it ultimately ends in a consolidation of wealth and power.

So long as institution are weakened/not strengthened.

So long as power is derived from the people/voters and there's transparency in the political process, there is nothing to worry about.

>Hell, even authoritarianism has its uses, although it's difficult (but not impossible) to institute temporarily. The handling of COVID is a perfect example of a proper time for authoritarianism for the good of humanity. Too many people were too dumb to follow the rules that could have made the impacts of COVID substantially less, meaning less deaths and less of a hit on the global economy and supply chain. There have been countries that successfully have used temporary authoritarian means for the good of the citizens, and then those powers were abandoned.

Political and voter realities are the only concern, if the people want to bestow emergency powers on the "imperial" president, then that's democracy and the will of the people (see de Gaul and Caesar)

>It's a dangerous move, but the tool itself is just a force, like you said.

Indeed.

>So yeah, they're all tools, but as the saying goes "if a hammer is your only tool, then everything starts to look like a nail", and you can cause some real damage when you don't use the right tool for the job. I think the problem arose mainly during the cold war when US vs Russia became Capitalism vs Communism, and economic systems were forced into our personal identities, and we were taught that capitalism was the best system for everything ever

I am not American or western but I still uphold the belief that capitalism (excepting laissez-faire capitalism and its ilk, of course) is the all around best mode of economy.

It is a system that supports meritocracy and fosters innovations that improve the quality of our lives.

Sure, some people will benefit more than others but a raising tide lifts all boats big and small and ideal shouldn't be the enemy of good.

>even though it only won out in that particular situation because that situation called for rapid growth,

False, I can't get into it in a reddit comment but communism was the main disease that caused the systematic symptoms that USSR suffered from.

I suggest you read up on communist command economy to properly understand it.

1

OhMyGodTheyKilledBri t1_irgt4n1 wrote

Replying to Khemith (#49,132)

The world has grown to a population that should not even be possible. How do you think that happens if things are worse than ever. You need to study and stop listening to NPR. Like it or not, the human race has never had more abundance.

2

Khemith t1_irgxdze wrote

Replying to OhMyGodTheyKilledBri (#55,183)

"NPR" wow you reactionaries think people treat NPR like Fox News.

You need to pull your head out of your trailer park mindset and see what capitalism is doing to the environment, and our culture. Wages have stagnated since the 70's productivity is higher than ever before. The oceans are turning into acid and capitalism has zero ability to combat these because it's profit at all costs.

0

OhMyGodTheyKilledBri t1_irgxt3l wrote

Replying to Khemith (#55,359)

Lol. You have no idea who I am. Stop it. I listen to NPR all the time, I don’t listen to Fox. NPR is unabashedly anti capitalist. To quote the story I was listening to a few days ago about inflation “companies have gotten addicted to sky high profits…” They have zero understanding of how economics work. If you think humans suffered less before capitalism, you’re delusional.

1

Khemith t1_irh5kih wrote

Replying to OhMyGodTheyKilledBri (#55,369)

"Economics" = infinite resources. pollution and social alienation magically go away. Profits at all costs. Human extinction due to the capitalist machine finally seeing us as limits to its profit making ability.

1