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CodsWhallop t1_j0y2uv8 wrote

I'll never understand why anyone would listen to a pastor, proclaiming the words of Jesus about valuing people above things and literally shunning wealth, and then watch them drive away in a Lambo.

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keksmuzh t1_j0zafoc wrote

Megachurches and prosperity gospel bullshit go brrrrr

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Taoistandroid t1_j0ztdyw wrote

Megachurches are the US's proof that no one does narcissism like we do narcissism.

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shmeetz t1_j10knk1 wrote

This comment made me realize, is the US really the only country where megachurches are a thing?

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Luca127 t1_j10l1rg wrote

There is a country wholly dedicated to one church

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bamaxfer t1_j10uubg wrote

There were literal empires throughout history that did this too. And while not Christian, amost all middle eastern terrorist groups (like ISIS) are entirely centered around one teacher of their Faith.

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shmeetz t1_j113vw4 wrote

While both of these comments are true, I think I need to clarify my question. I meant megachurches as in one congregation following one leeching pastor who syphons his congregation's money into his coffers so that he can live an extravagant lifestyle. I know there are theological based governments built on this foundation but their citizens are usually forced to give up their money/resources to these governments. US megachurch pastors are voluntarily given money from their parishioners. That's the difference I am asking about. If there are other countries with megachurches like this.

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bamaxfer t1_j1190y1 wrote

https://www.aproudchristian.com/2021/09/top-15-megachurches-in-world.html

no, they exist worldwide

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07hogada t1_j11nhy2 wrote

As someone who is not familiar with all of these, are they all similar to the US megachurches, where money/stuff gets funneled into one or a small group of preachers, or are they just places of worship with a large capacity? I'm guessing the former, but hoping the latter.

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bamaxfer t1_j11nvlq wrote

Almost all of them I've looked into are vast repositories of wealth collection

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Artephius_ t1_j1158e4 wrote

There are megachurches in many other countries, Brazil, South Korea, a few African nations. Nothing exclusive to the US about greed and brainwashing.

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paintedjeff t1_j11hhxa wrote

No but they originated here and we spread that gospel to other countries. Not all megachurches are bad. Only 95% of them. lol

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bigjaybird t1_j1278j8 wrote

Mega Churches and their followers were the prerequisite to the MAGA movement! Suckers….

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Randy_Tutelage t1_j0zrdz4 wrote

Because the people in the audience believe if they do what the pastor says they themselves will also become wealthy. It's called that "prosperity gospel" bullshit. The people who attend these churches arent really concerned with morality and spirituality. They just believe if they follow the rules God will reward them with money. Like god did with the pastor. They believe the pastor is wealthy because he figured out the way for God to shower him with money. They ignore the fact that these pastors get wealthy exclusively from donations from the congregation.

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TheOutlawStarLord t1_j12651s wrote

Humans have been trying out various systems of control for ages. This phenomenon popped up a while back and through the ages has had many forms. The Inciting Pastor being one of the less original, but highly adaptable ones. A high energy person who can engage and inspire a certain, demographic. People who are easily engaged or incited is the polite way of saying it. In this case it is usually about monetary gains, but it can also be about politics or some other form of social power.

I can assure everyone that any "Pastor" engaged in this sort of thing is not really a "man of god". They are a jackal picking at the carcass of simplicity and despair.

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C_Hawk14 t1_j115wxw wrote

Classic do as I say, don't do as I do situation

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Driver8666-2 t1_j0yctsp wrote

At least he doesn’t have a Gulfstream like Kenneth Copeland has.

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Random_Average__Guy t1_j0yo5n6 wrote

He was probably working on that before he got robbed!! Probably reached out to creflo and asked him for some advice on what model was the best.

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BowwwwBallll t1_j0ze7d7 wrote

What??? I NEEED that Gulfstream! It’s a religious purchase!!!

Look, I’m always asking God to come down and bless my congregation- it’s only fair that every once in a while I go up and see Him!!

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FireIzHot t1_j0zcyzf wrote

Hey, god wants them to be rich and have 100 cars, a big house, a jet, or some bullshit like that.

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Sophie-xoxo t1_j11cr63 wrote

They drive Porsches, fly in private jets, sail on yachts, wear Rolexs, and live in multi million dollar mansions.

They make more in a year than most people will ever see in their entire lifetime.

And yet they will preach about the evils of greed and attachment to material possessions.

I've heard that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven. In their case, I hope that's true.

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digitelle t1_j0zor9z wrote

It’s so they will give it all up for him.

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More_Cowbell8 t1_j1043qp wrote

In Flatbush, Whitestone or Philly. My Lamborghini, nothing to see here.

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metalliham t1_j10nw84 wrote

The pastors you are referring to are the negative church pastors. Most are normal, down to earth guys that drive around in normal cars, eat breakfast and even poop like the rest of us. Stereotypes don't help anyone. I do t care for organized religion, but you can still have Faith. Just my 2 cents.

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Harley2280 t1_j10o9bs wrote

>and even poop like the rest of us.

That's completely untrue. They're full of Holy Shit.

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Ok-Falcon2120 t1_j12bjnc wrote

Amen! - "Finally!, A Lambo",

THEE 11th Commandment -

"IN GOD WE TRUST, ALL OTHERS PAY CASH".

DONT FORGET YOUR WEEKEND CONTRIBUTIONS, PRECISELY AND PREFERABLY JUST AFTER YOU GOT YOUR WEAKLY PAY.

ENOUGH,SAID AHMAD MOHAMAD JAMAL FAYAD.

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sieri00 t1_j1dlt1y wrote

Rich people rarely getting into heaven is one of the clearest and least ambiguous teaching of Jesus

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Utopeias t1_j0zfqa0 wrote

Believe it or not 99% of pastors and priests are not driving away in a lambo or in any other type of luxury car

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CodsWhallop t1_j0zhqww wrote

I believe it. Well, I'd believe 95%, if luxury car includes things like BMW or Audi.

But like billionaires, that 1-5% of pastors has an outsized influence versus the rest.

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RevolutionaryDiet602 t1_j0xzu9n wrote

Apparently he forgot to actually read the Bible....

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." -Matthew 19:24

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Random_Average__Guy t1_j0y3e53 wrote

I don’t think any of them read the bible they just hold it up in the air and tell people what they believe is in it,now shut the hell up and put the %10 in the collection plate!

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Zachbnonymous t1_j0zplrw wrote

Oh they read it. They have to in order to find verses to warp and bend to make it seem like they need a private jet or a second mansion for God

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froggison t1_j0zik17 wrote

Needles were actually much bigger back then. Jesus was remarking about how easy it is for rich people to get into heaven.

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Minuted t1_j0zupmg wrote

There's actually some debate about the passage, one idea being that the needle was a gate in ancient Jerusalem (Damascus?), another that it was a mistranslation for some sort of rope, but a lot of alternate theories have been debunked. ReligionForBreakfast has a really good video on it on YouTube. Great channel.

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Angdrambor t1_j0zk3j5 wrote

Yee in those days, we were weaving textiles for giants, and the thread was so heavy you really did need a camel to pull it.

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RevolutionaryDiet602 t1_j0zks6j wrote

I disagree. Sewing needles of that time would have likely been made from copper or iron and at a thickness of .35mm. They were larger than modern sewing needles certainly, but still quite small relative to a camel....or a banana, depending on your unit of measurement.

Source

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sandyman88 t1_j0zztj7 wrote

Jokes on you, camels can get through the eye of the needle just fine, they just don’t like to because it requires crawling on their knees 😂

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Kromgar t1_j11a4jb wrote

The needle is really a gate thats easy to pass through

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Driver8666-2 t1_j0yd4it wrote

Someone might want to tell his lawyer the conviction rate in the Fed system in 96%.

God won’t help him out of this one.

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joshuajackson9 t1_j0zpngz wrote

I learned in church that god has a plan for everyone, so god knew this was coming and god sat back and watched. Amen.

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b0xtarts t1_j114tby wrote

That statistic is also criminal… leads a lot of innocent men to plead out to 5yrs rather than facing the minimum sentencing guidelines of 20 with all the stacked charges they throw at you.

Honestly, fuck the feds

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Sheer10 t1_j0ytzp1 wrote

What!? You say a Christian pastor is taking advantage of his congregation!? Couldn’t be…

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MadeFromNews t1_j0ybt8q wrote

Something was always very fishy about this guy’s stories. Just like Jussie Smollett

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rip1980 t1_j0xzhy8 wrote

Common street crook, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamor_Whitehead

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poquito_kale t1_j0y2whc wrote

> Whitehead, a convicted felon, is known for his close relationship with New York City Mayor Eric Adams and his ostentatious displays of wealth.

> Adams introduced Whitehead at a concert, calling the pastor “my good friend and good brother.”

Not surprised about his relationship with Adams. Nepotism and cronyism are par for Adams' course.

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ACaffeinatedWandress t1_j0y8jrq wrote

Damn. Reminds me of a popular Christian band I knew of growing up that dissolved after their second album due to one of the male singers getting convicted of sexual crimes against a minor.

He’s a pastor now.

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SquareAnywhere t1_j0z8lns wrote

I glad to hear he got arrested for something - everyone's immediate reaction to hearing he was robbed a few months ago was that he had to be crooked in some way. Now we'll hear how.

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itsatrap5000 t1_j0yp3uf wrote

“Robbed While Robbing” based on the true story of a Brooklyn pastor

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nonsequiturnonsense t1_j0yrnqc wrote

When spewing bullshit is your job this hardly surprising.

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Jwallin87 t1_j0zxwbg wrote

These morons are just a scam. No pastor who live rich like this is doing things right. They probably arent religious, just scamming the morons who keep giving them money.

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pypfm t1_j0z5gl7 wrote

EVERY Pastor/Preacher/Reverend/Priest is a FRAUD.

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estormaviorel t1_j0zfcxr wrote

For every preacher like this there are a few local ministers just trying to help their communities and their parishioners.

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sllewgh t1_j0zfdb3 wrote

Nonsense, you've just never met a good one. I'm a community organizer and I know a few members of the clergy who are down in the trenches with me practicing what Jesus really preached.

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MaximumZer0 t1_j0zpdet wrote

It's just the 99% of crooked lawyers giving the rest of them a bad name, right?

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sllewgh t1_j0zskt8 wrote

Lawyers?

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MaximumZer0 t1_j0zxqth wrote

draw parallels between

idiom

: to indicate ways in which two distinct things are similar

The essay draws parallels between the lives of the two presidents.

In this situation, lawyer can be subbed out for any similarly maligned profession, like judge or cop, and in particular "priest" in this instance, since that's the subject of the conversation.

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ScottyC33 t1_j0zp5og wrote

Disagree with every. Every one on TV probably is though, yes.

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WearyMoose307 t1_j0z9fvr wrote

Supply-side Jesus, won't you ameliorate your disciple's persecution?

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Ickyson t1_j0zkzb6 wrote

Religion is a tool of control and if you don’t understand that by now, you never will and are too brainwashed to understand what they say is a crock of shit.

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teddy_002 t1_j100akl wrote

it *can be a tool of control. claiming religion as a whole is something used solely to manipulate others is ignorant and incorrect.

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Ickyson t1_j1086et wrote

The proof in the fact that religion is the greatest tool of mass control and manipulation is that there are millions of religions in this world, and none, not a single one, hold scientifically tested and provable hard evidence except “some story some old man wrote about some people who saw something they could not explain 1000s of years ago and put it in a book that we have translated over a 100s of times in 100s of languages in that time period.”

0

teddy_002 t1_j108sj5 wrote

religion is not a scientific system, why would it be scientifically proven? that’s not what religion is about. antitheists have an obsession with religion being some quantifiable scientific system, which is an incredibly bad faith argument.

religion is about faith in humanity and the world, that which is beyond quantifiable means. it is not about understanding the world, it is about understanding humanity and the human experience.

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Ickyson t1_j112n41 wrote

I genuinely love these counterpoints and this conversation so far. This is very intriguing and insightful. Thank you for your responses.

I never said it was scientific in nature, but cannot be proven with science and that is extremely abnormal on our planet, in my opinion.

I do recognize your points and they are strong, but the way religion is highly institutionalized takes away from our points in my opinion.

I would argue religion exists to do just that, make sense of the life we are living on earth and after. This the control that comes from fear. Add a sense of urgency, surely someone will bit. But you know who else would sell Jesus Christ? A certain angel by the name of Satan.

Faith is the belief you will wake up tomorrow. Not the belief that an all knowing power will magically allow the born disabled to walk tomorrow.

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teddy_002 t1_j131h9i wrote

i agree, this is a good conversation. i think you make a very interesting point, ironically one that is often debated within theology - the difference between religion and faith.

i’m a theology student, and also a Quaker. we don’t have any dogma, or a hierarchy, so are able to avoid a lot of the potential dangers of those being corrupted. i agree that highly institutionalised religion is a danger - the catholic church is a good example of this, it has many wonderful people within its ranks, yet also has some truly evil people who have caused untold damage.

it’s interesting you make that point about it helping to make sense of life, i actually have a very similar viewpoint. religion, IMO, is a way of making tangible the intangible. the idea that we are all alone, in an apathetic world, with no meaning or purpose can be unbearable. faith provides us with a way of giving ourselves meaning, and allowing us to embrace our humanity.

overall, i think you make a really great point, one i often argue for myself as a theology student - the difference between personal faith and institutional religion. whilst institutional religion is a mixed bag, weighed down by corruption, control and zealotry, personal faith is a powerful antidote to the inherent apathy of our existence, and when applied with earnest, creates a vision of true humanity and love.

ironically it’s an often misquoted karl marx quote that i think sums this up well:

“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”

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Ickyson t1_j14k6uj wrote

I love your response here. What great points you have made again.

It’s hard to counter those, and after our conversation, maybe the right way for me to frame my opinion is:

Institutionalized religion is negative on the world and has negative impacts, more than positive impacts, at least from my point of view. Faith, on the other hand, is a necessary point of life. For living, relationships, love, and growth. Knowing there will be a tomorrow when it feels there can’t be one.

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dion_o t1_j125yex wrote

If religion stuck to abstract spiritual concepts then that's possibly true. But religious teachings move beyond this and assert facts. Like the earth is X years old, evolution is fake, there is an afterlife, if you believe in god you will be rewarded in X way. Once you start asserting facts, and especially asserting cause and effect then your belief system is in principle testable and therefore subject to scienrific proof. So you skirt around the issue and say that anti theists act in bad faith by expecting religion to satisfy scientific principles.

Consider an analogous belief system: that of Santa Claus. Certain facts are asserted: there's a big fat guy in a sleigh who lives at the north pole and rewards kids on Xmas eve who believe in him. In principle everything that is asserted there is testable. But when you start doing so the inability to find his workshop is conveniently brushed away by saying things like he uses magic to hide his location. Or if I set up a surveillance system to catch him on Xmas eve when he comes to my house to bring me presents then when he doesn't come its because I didn't believe hard enough in him. There's always some reason for the complete lack of evidence. So it is with religion. If I just "believe harder" then god will reveal himself to me and I'll get the proof I need.

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isekai-cheeese t1_j10sey9 wrote

fuck a pastor they all pointless. you dont need some middle man to tell you about “god”. its all a scam ffs

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antisocialnatureguy t1_j0z3v3b wrote

I think my pastor was the only folk to own a rollie, ghost, and rolls royce with no holy ghost

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Smeller_of_Taint t1_j10dg35 wrote

I think the original robbery may have been a setup. A fiction of his design.

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manysounds t1_j119v81 wrote

Anybody who wears glasses with no prescription shouldn’t ever be trusted

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StrugglinSurvivor t1_j106irr wrote

Any pastor owned Church is pretty much a FAKE Church. All seem to be corrupt and it's all about the $'s. If they don't have Deacons to hold them to be responsible and Teach the Bible it's lost. My Daughter moved to San Diego and started going to Church out there. It was pastor owned he 2as sleeping with several members and asking workers & volunteers to do so many unethical things. Several people who she made friends with (& her) all left.

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golgon4 t1_j0zmtj3 wrote

A grifter doing grifter things? How shocking! Shocking i say!

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SimonArgent t1_j0zn1rt wrote

Someone had to pay for that watch.

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raven_borg t1_j0zqtep wrote

“favorable actions by the New York City government”- missed opportunity to bring down his crony Adams.

1

Any-Test-2642 t1_j0zu2ke wrote

He should know the Lord works in mysterious ways!

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Koffeekage t1_j0zzm9x wrote

Frankly im not even mad about the lying to the FBI part.

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More_Cowbell8 t1_j103pic wrote

I'm so grateful that woman got or is getting her money back.

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More_Cowbell8 t1_j103syr wrote

But but but- gawd blessed this man. Why would geezus use him like that? Hahahaha

1

Skeptic135 t1_j10aja9 wrote

I honestly do not even recognize Christianity any longer. It has been totally perverted from loving/serving the poor to buying “pastors”multiple private jets.

1

LoveBulge t1_j10bpek wrote

Unrelated, but you can probably add insurance fraud to the list

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[deleted] t1_j10dlwf wrote

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Mr_Burns1886 t1_j10lsuv wrote

You know you are bad when the govt actually goes after a church.

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Ok-Wasabi2873 t1_j10nye5 wrote

God really does work in mysterious ways.

1

BillyQz t1_j117amt wrote

Do as I say my flock not as I fleece you

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tompetreshere t1_j11sf7y wrote

I knew this guy had done something wrong. Even right then, I had a feeling he was in on it!

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philodendrin t1_j11xbxh wrote

Do more! Start with Kenneth Copeland and keep going!

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mrcalebjones t1_j11xt42 wrote

I mean…. TECHNICALLY, it’s an unrelated case. But you know that’s gotta somehow be related, right?

1

yoho808 t1_j120oc6 wrote

I guess for then, The Law only matters if it's convenient for them isn't it?

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TheOutlawStarLord t1_j125a4c wrote

There is literally a passage that teaches this lesson in his so called good book. He must have skipped a few "chapters".

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TheOutlawStarLord t1_j126s06 wrote

The more you read about the guy, the worse it gets. Dog shit would be insulted if I called him that.

1

Ok-Falcon2120 t1_j12dsn5 wrote

Not bashing faith, just stating the facts,

  1. THE BIBLE WAS NEVER ORIGINALLY WRITTEN IN ENGLISH. THIS LEAVES MUCH FOR "INTERPRETATION".
  2. THE OLD TESTAMENT CAME OUT OF EGYPT, HEBREW WAS INVENTED BECAUSE WRITING WAS MOSTLY OUTLAWED.
  3. ANCIENT EGYPT WAS BUILT BY A CIVILIZATION THAT BUILT EGYPT! THEREFORE,.EGYPT IS THE OLDEST KNOWN CIVILIZATION LONG BEFORE CHINA WAS ESTABLISHED, GLOBAL DNA PROJECT PROVES WE ALL CAME FROM AFRICA THE SEAT OF HUMANITY. PERHAPS EGYPT WAS LUSH TROPICAL FOREST AT THE TIME?
1

Bowman_van_Oort t1_j12pdne wrote

every preacher deserves to get charged with wire fraud; change my mind

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chocowich t1_j12pjp5 wrote

Sometimes you get, sometimes you get got. LMAO

1

Gold_Retirement t1_j12ycje wrote

An omnipotent god shouldn't need money from its followers.

Inconvenient truth.

1

Poonjabr t1_j1qw602 wrote

Another faux religious leader milking his herd. Surprise Surprise.

1

Substantial_Pirate95 t1_j0zt66q wrote

the Root of all Evil is $$$ . and he always request donations!!

0

LD1950 t1_j104n2s wrote

Hallelujah

0

b0xtarts t1_j114jpv wrote

Geee. what a surprise.

0

LeftLimeLight t1_j10h4ud wrote

When will people realize that organized religion is, in essence, just a pyramid scheme.

−1