Your Take on DC Pedestrians? Are they Aloof?

Submitted by CorporateProvocateur t3_10027hs in washingtondc

I'm interested in other people's experience with this. I find DC Pedestrians to be the most aloof I've ever encountered.

The normal interaction I experience in non DC places is both parties stop, make eye contact and non verbally communicate "go ahead" sometimes with a little hand motion.

In DC my experience is that most pedestrians enter the crosswalk and purposely look AWAY from cars that could, if driven by a bad actor, mow them down. They don't "look both ways" like you are taught when you're a child.

I'm not sure if it's ego, pride, the horror of having to make eye contact with another person or what, but in this city the primary behavior I notice when I stop at an intersection and a pedestrian wants to cross is that they specifically look AWAY from me and refuse to make eye contact or communicate.

It's as if their need to be aggressively anti social is more important than their self preservation drive.

I've also considered that they are trying to make a point about having the right of way. To be clear they do and I'm not making any argument about that but seems like quite the risk to take to make a point.

I experience this myself and I see it when I'm not the car at the crosswalk.

Am I crazy or is this a valid observation?

Edit: Some observations from feedback

  1. I think I'm much more likely to stop than many DC drivers so I hear people saying they need to assert their right to walk. This makes sense but not eyeballing the driver still seems like an unnecessary additional risk not worth the benefit. In fact if I was doing that to get a car to stop I'd be even more likely to make sure the driver saw me.

  2. Where I grew up everyone crossed against the light if there was plenty of time to get across before a car was close. Which may have increased the importance of the eye contact. This is a very not DC thing. I have seen 10 people wait for the walk sign when there wasn't a car in sight for as far as the eye can see. This might be impact my expectations.

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Agirlisarya01 t1_j2fmtes wrote

That is a strange take. DC’s a crowded city. As a pedestrian, I don’t have the time (or honestly see the point of) making eye contact and having a little interaction with every driver whose path I cross. Think about it-if I’m crossing K street, is your suggestion that I do that four times in order to cross the street? And repeat it for every street I cross? And you also want the twenty or so people who are crossing the street with me to also slow down and do the same thing? And believe that the other drivers around you would be happy if we held up traffic to do so? I can just hear the chorus of blaring car horns I would get if I tried. I’ll glance over quickly before I cross to be sure that you’re stopped, then be on my way. Waiting for a hand wave isn’t really a thing that I’ve seen done here. That sounds more like a suburban thing to me.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fon6h wrote

I haven't noticed this on big streets where the signals are clear. This is a stop sign / crosswalk thing where things can be more ambiguous. I don't look there either, I trust cars not to run the light.

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har3821 t1_j2fvqie wrote

Yeah at those "Stop for pedestrians" crosswalks, maybe 1 in 50 cars will voluntarily stop for you, so the only way to actually make it across is to throw yourself into the intersection and assume you'll win chicken.

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pomegranatecloud t1_j2fnsiv wrote

Huh? Why would I need to make eye contact or signal either as a pedestrian or as a driver? As I driver, I slow down or stop for the pedestrian. I don’t expect eye contact. As a pedestrian, I cross because I have the right of way. Why would I make eye contact as I cross?

Are you expecting a thank you for letting a pedestrian walk?

This is one of the weirdest posts.

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dcmcg t1_j2f6vp6 wrote

Who cares? Sounds like you just want people to beg you to cross the street.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2f7u4i wrote

No. I just feel more secure when drivers and pedestrians communicate and signal intentions. You even learn this in most drivers Ed courses. To make eye contact and silently communicate.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22make+eye+contact+with+the+other+driver%22&oq=%22make+eye+contact+with+the+other+driver%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30j0i390l3.7660j0j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

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stormcloudbros t1_j2fklfa wrote

They do not have to signal shit. You do not have the right or way. Wait until you can safely proceed.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fn5bd wrote

They don't have to do anything. But why bet your life and health on the fact that every driver is being as careful as me? This seems like a bad bet.

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stormcloudbros t1_j2fnf9v wrote

My issue is that it’s not your business as a driver to tell a ped what to do. The problem lies with drivers not following laws, not pedestrians not giving drivers eye contact.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fmzxe wrote

How the hell is this so downvoted? It's literally a link showing that doing this is in a lot of driving courses and driving best practice guides. Are people burying it because it doesn't fit their perspective? It's literally evidence that what I'm suggesting is at least widely considered a good idea.

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OldScarcity5443 t1_j2fog5f wrote

Because if I’m waiting at a crosswalk, what other signal of my intention do you need? Conversely, if my dogs are sniffing and taking their sweet time, I turn my back to the street so drivers don’t think I’m crossing. But if I’m standing there facing the street, what else am I going to do when you have to stop for a light or stop sign?

And a link to best-practices from driver’s ed is hardly indicative of how people actually act.

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stormcloudbros t1_j2fkehr wrote

If they’re entering a crosswalk they do not owe you a look. Yield to pedestrians.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fnb2r wrote

I do. I can both be a careful driver and still think it's a bad idea to not look.

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stormcloudbros t1_j2fnr4f wrote

You are welcome to your opinion as anyone is but that doesn’t make it right.

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sakizashi t1_j2f85xa wrote

They might be looking away from you to see if there is another danger coming like a car is going to swerve around you to enter the intersection.

When walking, I have found that taking even a second to acknowledge one car can put me in danger from another. In other words, you have been evaluated as safe and they are looking for the next thing.

Its a bummer, but we live in a city where red lights are optional and curb sneaking at 20mph to blow through stop signs is a normal thing.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2f9nen wrote

I think part of what makes me uneasy about it is that when they don't look at me I have this uncertainty that they see me as well. They probably do. It just feels dangerous even though I'm not the one physically in danger.

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sakizashi t1_j2faxll wrote

If you are driving, you need to yield anyway; so there isn't any real confusion about what you should do. It just feels...like people are drones

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swampoodler t1_j2fcjt8 wrote

Pedestrians do have the right away.

You’re in a dense environment. Suggestion: Unless you are physically unable to traverse without a vehicle, get out of your personal ride and walk or take public transit.

Personally, if I ever feel that a car is rushing me, I slow my walk to a stroll. This ain’t the suburbs.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fh3bo wrote

Peds always have the right of way. I want to be clear that's not at all my point here.

I am often a ped myself. I like the eye contact when I'm a ped too.

But I also do what you're describing and dynamically change my walk speed based on judgement of the speed of oncoming cars. What I'm noticing is people not do that and just walk into the intersection as if no car was present.

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Quiet-Pirate-4586 t1_j2fe7p8 wrote

It's not anti social. It's called being a city person.

And if they have the right of way, they don't need to smile at anyone to make them stop.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fevnk wrote

Who said smile? They don't HAVE TO it isn't a toll I'm extracting 🤣. I just think it's safer if both parties make eye contact so they both see that they see each other. It's tought in driver's Ed that way.

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Quiet-Pirate-4586 t1_j2ff12c wrote

Don't get me wrong. I do it. But it's ultimatel the driver's responsibility to yield.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fnnuq wrote

Agree. I can both recognize whose responsibility it is and still think it's crazy to not double check with a half second look considering what's at stake.

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RaTerrier t1_j2fok5u wrote

There’s a decent number of drivers out there who take a pedestrian’s attention as an opportunity to roll through the crosswalk without yielding.

“They saw me, I don’t have to wait for them at this stop sign.”

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fp3ak wrote

Fair enough. Those drivers are in the wrong. Still seems risky to not look so you can cross and risk getting hit by a bad driver. It's literally playing chicken with a car.

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RaTerrier t1_j2fpfpw wrote

I look, but not in a demonstrative, “here’s my eye contact sir/ma’am” kind of way.

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campbeer t1_j2fct6q wrote

I think they are more keen than you are giving them credit.

We KNOW you need to stop and yield, and I think many folks from other states aren't used to city flow.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fg86t wrote

That's a reasonable take. I'm from a city, I have lived in this one for about 20 years. I've been noticing it a lot more recently so perhaps the person mentioning COVID had a point.

I still think the millisecond of eye contact communicates a lot and is worth it.

I'm a pedestrian often as well. I always try to make the eye contact.

Where I grew up people always crossed against the light. Maybe that has something to do with my expectations.

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AngelsGoHome t1_j2ffxv5 wrote

As a pedestrian I wait 3 seconds before attempting to enter any crosswalk. I never step into the road until the car in that lane has come to a stop.

When I reach the middle I begin to crab walk sideways so I can see approaching traffic behind me that may be turning.

I’m STILL alive.

But, quite often, by not asserting my right to enter the crosswalk drivers will barely slow and make a right on red without stopping or yielding.

Many drivers assert they don’t have to yield if you are not yet in the road and they also assert that, as the bigger vehicle, if you see them YOU should stay out of the way. Therefore, possibly, some pedestrians have developed a habit of not looking to keep the driver honest.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fl26z wrote

If it's even a close call I stop. I guess I just prefer the certainty of a head nod or whatever.

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Answer_Feisty t1_j2fgqsk wrote

It’s fast paced here- why should the pedestrian have to acknowledge the driver if they have the right away?Drivers should just stop. Does a train stop at every railroad crossing to wave at the people stopped for the train?

We have places to be, people to see, we don’t have the time to stop and make sure you’re following the law.

Also like others said, it may just be watching around for other hazards that may happen- like when you slow down to try and communicate with the pedestrian, and the car behind you swerves around you into oncoming traffic because you’re going too slow.

You have a very negative tone, like you’re not going to compromise in any way. That’s fine- but this is the way dc is, so expect it and probably don’t live in a city

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fkqz6 wrote

  1. Drivers should just stop.

  2. Trains have lights, bars and, warning alarms that a train is coming so this is a poor metaphor. If a train was being driven by a person I could see and I had to walk in front of it. I'd make damn sure I made eye contact with that person to make sure they saw me before walking in front of it.

  3. The way you've laid out the above relies on perfect adherence and perfect performance. Isn't half a second worth your life or limb to make sure the driver sees you? He should see you, he should stop, but if he doesn't something terrible will happen.

The logic you've laid out above says "I'm so busy and important that I'm not willing to sacrifice half a second and instead will rely on all drivers to be perfectly adherent and never make a mistake despite their best intentions." This just seems like a bad bet to me and a very poor trade off.

I admit it would be hard to convince me the above is a sound way of thinking. I'm a careful driver and am extra conscientious about pedestrians but I know this city has lots of drivers who aren't, so it seems like a poor risk to take.

I have never not lived in a city.

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johnbrownbody t1_j2fnow9 wrote

My take is that this is the least valuable contribution to this subreddit I've seen in quite some time. Congratulations

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wolandjr t1_j2fooa0 wrote

This whole post is cringe worthy. I'm sorry the mean DC pedestrians don't look at you enough.

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veloharris t1_j2f5ltl wrote

This is the effect of phones and two years of isolation, it's not just a DC thing. That said please don't do the hand motion thing. Just follow the rules of the intersection and proceed. When cars play traffic cop it only confuses things and it's condescending.

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Mindless-Employment t1_j2f6zlm wrote

>That said please don't do the hand motion thing. Just follow the rules of the intersection and proceed. When cars play traffic cop it only confuses things and it's condescending.

This is exactly why I look away from cars when they get to the intersection right before me. I refuse to play the "Go ahead..No, YOU go ahead" game. You were there first, so just go first as you would if I was a car. Because while you're waving me ahead, someone behind you could get impatient, whip around you and hit me OR someone else could pull up at another corner of the intersection and decide they want to go first since neither of us is moving. I know people are trying to be "nice" when they wave pedestrians ahead but it just slows everyone down and creates confusion.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2f8sve wrote

I have tried the "I go first" thing you described and had pedestrians start screaming at me.

It's not just nice it's about "I see you and your see me" which is a good practice bc even if everyone always intended to follow the rules of the road but missed someone there could be an accident.

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RaTerrier t1_j2fn1ao wrote

Could you describe this situation in more detail? This sounds like a situation where you decided to do something other than what the traffic rules specify, and then received some negative verbal feedback.

I recommend that you go if the law says that you get to go, and you don’t go if the law says that you don’t get to go.

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Mindless-Employment t1_j2faidi wrote

>I have tried the "I go first" thing you described and had pedestrians start screaming at me.

Yeah, there are definitely people who believe that there's some universal, blanket statute granting pedestrians the right of way everywhere, in all circumstances. I have no idea how these people don't get run over five times a year.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fi12d wrote

This is the exact vibe I'm describing in this post. The EXACT vibe. Like they have a magical force field and don't need to even risk assess the car.

These are the people I'm talking about. I should have been more clear. Most pedestrians we're normal. What I'm describing here is that I've noticed the incidence of the "force field" / "sovereign Pedestrians" increasing.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2f97di wrote

I just can't believe you could think someone letting you know they see you and you're completely safe is condescending. Even if everyone always intendeds to follow the rules human beings miss things which could cause an accident. Letting others know you see them is a good practice.

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veloharris t1_j2fcs4q wrote

Nod your head if you must.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fgjyo wrote

You're now policing how I'm polite to pedestrians? "If you must" you can't be real.

Were you watching your butler clean your monacle while you typed this?

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veloharris t1_j2fqe2t wrote

If the pedestrian crossed with their hand extended to say stop as they crossed, what would your thoughts/reaction be?

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2f6xjd wrote

Ah. So you're one of them.

"Everyone study all the rules and perfectly memorize them and execute them perfectly every time so that nobody ever has to communicate." I don't think I've ever read a more DC thing in my life.

I'm not playing traffic cop, I'm letting them know I see them and plan to follow the rules.

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veloharris t1_j2fcea1 wrote

You're saying I'm in a car and I'm the only one that matters. Just follow the rules and make eye contact if appropriate.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fgrsj wrote

I'm not saying this at all. I do this specifically because pedestrians matter.

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foreverurgirl t1_j2fdyxg wrote

To answer your question - VALID and yes you are uncovering them in this post lol

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2ff8zj wrote

This is one of those moments when your jaw just drops. I'm in shock the type of people I'm describing are right here, in this thread.

Condescending? I care about making people feel safe and being safe. The other part of that person's argument is a reasonable take but condescending? I just can't believe that's a real persons take.

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KerPop42 t1_j2fhnof wrote

As a transplant, I know what you're saying, but I've come to see it as the right way to interact with DC traffic.

I keep aware of traffic, but eye contact here communicates to the car driver that the pedestrian is aware of them, and so will stop if the car keeps going. By not making eye contact, I force the car driver to actually stop for me.

The steps I take to do that safely though, makes sure the driver sees me and has enough time to stop. I communicate my intention to cross nonverbally.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fip2s wrote

> By not making eye contact, I force the car driver to actually stop for me

This is what I find uncomfortable. I don't know that you've seen me. This is like trying to communicate something with no confirmation that the message had been received. A message in a bottle. Aren't you worried I might NOT have seen you. Seems much riskier to your safety to me. It seems a really big risk for a very small benefit.

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golden_ratio324B21 t1_j2flgej wrote

Alternatively, even if I make eye contact with a driver, who’s to say they still wouldn’t mow me over as a ped? If I waited for eye contact and a ‘go ahead’ gesture from drivers, I’d never get anywhere as a pedestrian in this city.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fmdls wrote

I understand this perspective. I mean I guess I'm just assuming most drivers don't want to hit people and are less likely to run over a person looking right at them.

I'm not saying wait for permission. I do this because I feel like it makes things super clear. Just seems not worth the risk to be not to check.

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golden_ratio324B21 t1_j2fn240 wrote

I would hope most drivers don’t want to run over people but then again I’ve had drivers look me dead in the eye and still pull out in front of me (also driving). The think there’s a unique combo here of 1) city dwellers used to being pedestrians 2) tourists/those who aren’t comfy being pedestrians as well as 3) people absolutely tuned out for whatever reason as well as notoriously bad drivers in this area so you see al types of behaviors from both drivers and pedestrians.

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keyjan t1_j2fnpox wrote

Couple years ago, a neighbor of mine out here in the burbs was crossing the Post Office driveway. A driver pulled up to the stop sign, they both made eye contact, my neighbor took a couple steps out into the driveway and the driver ran her over anyway.

(In the “Convenient Cop” vein, the driver behind the striking vehicle was an off duty cop. Neighbor (70 yo!) got a broken shoulder and hip, but fortunately recovered nicely.)

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stormcloudbros t1_j2fkow9 wrote

What does it matter? You have to stop either way.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fmlc4 wrote

It makes me anxious that people are just walking out into streets not looking for cars and just expecting all cars to always perfectly follow the rules.

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stormcloudbros t1_j2fmr4y wrote

Honestly, you should be somewhat anxious and alert driving through a city full of people because you dont know what’s going to happen around you.

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KerPop42 t1_j2fvq91 wrote

The benefit is crossing the street at all tbh. And yeah, I consider giving enough warning to the drivers to be important. I don't stand in a crowd, and I make sure that there's enough space that the driver will be able to comfortably stop when I'm already in the street.

But if you're driving in the city, you really do have to be careful. Drivers are at the bottom of the legal totem pole because we have so much potential to harm everyone else and are more nimble than trucks and busses.

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romanceordelusion t1_j2fi0do wrote

As a pedestrian I confirm the slowing speed of the car approaching my intersection and then I look for other danger - most often other cars turning and crossing into the crosswalk who don’t see me. I can’t make eye contact with you because I need to assess that other parts of the road are clear. There’s a lot going on. Don’t take it personally

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Suburbs-suck t1_j2fajwg wrote

I’m not exactly sure what there is to say, I personally have my head on a swivel, I don’t personally see that many pedestrians acting irresponsibly compared to other places, and the evidence suggests that cars pose a danger to pedestrians.

That being said, it’s not really possible to engage further if all you have is your own personal experience and your attempts to psycho analyze pedestrians.

I’m personally far more concerned with the behavior of drivers in this city.

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shhhshaunna t1_j2fgyov wrote

People don’t do it because there’s no need to. It’s DC, not Connecticut.

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wtf703 t1_j2fmu20 wrote

I think pedestrians here are as alert as they need to be. During normal 9-5 hours downtown and in heavy pedestrian traffic areas people are less alert, but in those places it should be obvious to drivers when to be careful. Pedestrians aren’t as careful there, but when sidewalks are crowded, drivers need to look out.

I tend to be more careful when walking or driving where there isn’t much traffic. That’s where I tend to run into people/cars that aren’t paying attention as much as they should be.

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keyjan t1_j2fn7xl wrote

Some of them are glued to their phones, but most of the time they’re paying attention. Locals are aware of how dangerous it is to cross the street in the crosswalk with the green light or walk signal.

Tourists, OTOH…. Last week I was out for my after lunch walk and watched two different family groups just walk out into traffic. (As I passed them afterwards, I said, “This is D.C. They WILL hit you.”)

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Jeww_Chainz t1_j2ff5md wrote

Interesting observation which I can see why you feel this way. I would personally classify this behavior you are noticing as a northeast culture thing where people walk with a purpose and not so lackadaisical vs being aggressively anti-social. I walk a lot through the city and I would agree that many walkers (lots probably tourists) do not pay attention to their surroundings (i.e. texting and walking, zig zagging on the sidewalk, or or walking slowly/stopping in the middle of the sidewalk making it difficult for a faster walker to pass by). I would also say that you would expect a city like dc to have drivers that are extra careful and safe due to the abundance of pedestrians and bikers; however that is the opposite of the way people drive here. Drivers in the city are absolutely horrible, and pedestrians are probably not considering the unsafe behaviors of drivers when they walk.

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Evening_Chemist_2367 t1_j2fcay4 wrote

I think it's less about ego/pride/etc. I see far too many crossing the street with their heads down on their phones. I think a lot of people in DC are mentally pre-occupied with other things rather than caring about what others are doing. The part of it that bothers me the most is that many seem to lack situational awareness.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2fh7fp wrote

I'm guilty of this but I always glace both ways make eye contact with any stopped cars and then shove my face back in my phone 😋

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PresidentHarambe1 t1_j2fw85n wrote

457 carjackings in DC for 2022; not including tonight.

I’m not making eye contact or stopping at intersections for long. I don’t really stop for jaywalkers either. Sometimes I do, but not really. Not looking to get jacked up.

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tasty_beverage_dew t1_j2fflo1 wrote

Not playing, I saw a cop grab a guy who was about to walk right into a motorcade because he was face f☆cking his phone. The cop legit stopped the guy from being killed. I'm not saying don't do what you want, but just be mindful of this city and what is going on here.

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EastoftheCap t1_j2f8fpn wrote

There’s a shockingly high percentage of adults that don’t “look both ways” when they cross the street.

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CorporateProvocateur OP t1_j2f9yxy wrote

Apparently it's condescending to care about not wanting to run them over and trying to communicate means I want them to BEG to cross the street.

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stormcloudbros t1_j2fotja wrote

But if you stop when you’re supposed to you won’t run then over?

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travestigator t1_j2fbokf wrote

Never had a problem with pedestrians. I always slow down and/or stop if they are on or near the crosswalk. I want to beat the shit out of jaywalkers though

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