Submitted by jussulent_tummy t3_z520en in worldnews
Comments
Splatter_1 t1_ixu65uy wrote
Its more security. If china conquers taiwan we wont have to bend over to china then.
OldGuto t1_ixuvnx6 wrote
Or not bother lifting a finger to actually help Taiwan if the Chinese do actually become properly aggressive. Especially when the fab is in your own country.
WolfResponsible8483 t1_ixveagr wrote
The fab is probably screwed anyway if war breaks out. There are other reason for defending Taiwan.
txdv t1_ixvmztu wrote
>Or not bother lifting a finger to actually help Taiwan if the Chinese do actually become properly aggressive. Especially when the fab is in your own country.
If the US says it will back Taiwan, it will.
FindorKotor93 t1_ixwhsh9 wrote
Tell that to the Kurds.
[deleted] t1_iy0kat2 wrote
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Erisagi t1_ixwg20o wrote
For now. Conditions could be different decades from now. Taiwan would be foolish to only rely on America's word and not look out for itself in the long term. We used to have a full defensive alliance with Taiwan and formally recognized them until that was changed under President Carter.
Deicide1031 t1_ixx5o0a wrote
Taiwan is protecting its self by continuing to dominate the industry. America would definitely show up, and even if they didn’t other western and Asian nations are not gonna be chill with their major supplier being wiped out.
Nikola_Turing t1_ixw7eao wrote
Taiwan matters far more to the U.S. than simply its semiconductors. Look up the first island chain. Being allied with all the pacific countries near China essentially allows the U.S to box China’s navy into the South China Seas.
PublicFurryAccount t1_ixy7hvc wrote
That's a Chinese fantasy about their own security that has more to do with Mao-era weirdness than anything else.
seksismart t1_ixvppaz wrote
The fab facilities will be the first ones to be destroyed to prevent take over.
Deicide1031 t1_ixx5g4e wrote
Taiwan and the company wouldn’t have signed off on this unless they had another card up their sleeve. People are also assuming the United States will be able to produce the quantities that Taiwan can and that is 100% wrong. It’ll take a long time before they are as efficient. Taiwan will continue to be relevant for a long time to not just westerners but asia as well.
Armand74 t1_ixw31w9 wrote
That’s not going to happen, the United States will defend Taiwan period!
[deleted] t1_ixvasxz wrote
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crunchypuddle t1_ixvmr7e wrote
Happily not true at all.
dcrm t1_ixwviec wrote
This was always the play.
WonderSearcher t1_ixxu381 wrote
TSMC actually promised that the world's latest high-end fab making will still be only in Taiwan. By the time when the US starts the 3nm manufacture, Taiwan will start the 1 and 2 nm production. And 2 nm fab plant is already under construction in Hsinchu, Taiwan.
Splatter_1 t1_ixzvxbc wrote
Then i guess Taiwan will still be defended. Which is good.
AK_Sole t1_ixwpt11 wrote
It’s it maybe both?
jamiekyn t1_ixtwvse wrote
Most Americans probably don’t want those jobs lmao
colorabro t1_ixujuh6 wrote
Bro you can work in semi fab with only a high school diploma and still make 70k+ with full benefits. These jobs are definitely sought after. So much money in the semiconductor industry
Erisagi t1_ixwf69t wrote
Hold on, if it's that good then why did these jobs go overseas? These seem like jobs Americans would certainly want, that could have been created by American companies, and that are well complemented by American education.
heresyforfunnprofit t1_ixwqy6b wrote
Because they can pay them $20k USD equivalent instead of $70k USD.
jamiekyn t1_ixush57 wrote
So much money but backbreaking work...and not that much money if you divide by the hours and overtime
colorabro t1_ixux87y wrote
I wouldn’t call it backbreaking. It’s not as physically demanding compared to something like warehouse work, welding, or construction (speaking from experience). But yeah, the hours are rough. Gotta be OK with shift work and possibly overnight… a lot of people love the freedom of only working 3 or 4 days a week though
TellMe2GetOffReddit- t1_ixtxnsk wrote
Dare say being a brand new fab a huge chunk of the production line will be autonomous and only need a small selection of skilled staff.
fillytopper t1_ixtzjk9 wrote
No doubt this is probably will happen and some H1B visas to bring administration in.
AstralElement t1_ixvc673 wrote
As someone who was in the semiconductor industry, I definitely want to go back to it. Those companies really do value their employees more than most companies.
zipzoupzwoop t1_ixubs6o wrote
Let's make a push for those poor twitter employees to get these jobs after they've used up their three month severance.
GossamerSolid t1_ixwb19z wrote
Imagine simping for a billionaire...
You're as dumb as Elon if you think those people will remain unemployed.
_zenith t1_ixx0c4z wrote
LMAO they will be employed pretty much immediately if they wish
pblack476 t1_ixuecji wrote
Frek,.... that is huge.
Northernicicl3 t1_ixul6o7 wrote
Actually 3nm is quite the opposite.
mycall t1_ixuvmhm wrote
You are thinking about it wrong.
3000pm is HUGE.
Rogermcfarley t1_iy1g9xq wrote
I've been doing daylight saving wrong
baphometromance t1_ixty75z wrote
Holy FUCK 3nm?
Jamus- t1_ixu17mk wrote
Yeah, that's what's most amazing to me. It's getting so small so quickly. 7nm is still epically powerful now. And we're already at less than half that.
Greedyanda t1_ixu50el wrote
This isn't actually the size. TSMC has changed their naming conventions years ago and the market has followed.
atlusblue t1_ixub7du wrote
So how does it work or what is the scheme name?
Shuber-Fuber t1_ixue0yj wrote
Basically, "3nm" doesn't refer to actual feature size anymore. It just means that there's an improvement from previous "x-nm" gen (maybe better density, smaller leakage current, faster gate speed, etc).
Because ultimately, it's performance. If you can keep the same size but, say, reduce the gate switching time by half, you functionally just have twice the performance for a given number of transistors.
poqpoq t1_ixv36gf wrote
So at some point with this convention will we use negative nm? Or will we just drop to 0.9nm 0.8nm etc?
jared555 t1_ixv9zzo wrote
Picometers would be the next logical step which means they probably won't use it.
poqpoq t1_ixvc3n0 wrote
Yeah that was why I was wondering about stuff like 0.9nm. Pm won’t be recognizable to consumers and consumers will be confused that it’s a larger number.
glamdivitionen t1_ixwkbau wrote
Nah, we'll probably leave meters altogether and switch to Ångströms pretty soon.
YourDevilAdvocate t1_ixv3e6a wrote
I'm thinking alphanumerical
2nmA. 2nmb etc...
Lurker_Since_Forever t1_ixwu28x wrote
It's based on transistor density. Something that is twice as dense is sqrt(2) times smaller feature size. So doubling transistor density down from 10 is 10 -> 7 -> 5 -> 3 -> 2 -> measuring it in angstroms or picometers.
WolfResponsible8483 t1_ixvf1lc wrote
Intel has dropped the "nm" completely. Their 10nm was rename to Intel 7 - it was very similar to TSMC 7nm anyway. Upcoming nodes are named Intel 4 and Intel 3.
babbler-dabbler t1_ixvkidt wrote
So inflation applies to semiconductor trace sizes too.
damnthistrafficjam t1_ixu3u9k wrote
Pretty soon we’re all gonna have cells like Zoolander!
OldMork t1_ixu5q7e wrote
3nm - So hot now
urmyheartBeatStopR t1_ixvbmyc wrote
It's a gimmick not the real size. Anything 5nm and beyond is now just a marketing term for the technology generation like 2.0 and stuff.
They started to stack transistors (3d) and stuff now so they can fit more. It's not like they shrunk it even further yet.
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danielbot t1_ixvttxx wrote
3nm is a bullshit marketing name. The minimum spacing between wires on "3nm" process is 24nm, the minimum spacing between gates is 48nm. Impressive enough, considering that the wavelength of the ultraviolet light used to create the circuits is 13nm. The actual density increase vs 5nm is roughy 1.25.
Try040221 t1_ixuom4m wrote
TSMC Racing to 1nm, Investing $32 Billion for Fab: Report
Myrang3r t1_ixvson8 wrote
The nm number marketed by fabs means nothing anymore, the actual transistor size is like 10x that.
We're still a long way from actual 3nm transistors.
mycall t1_ixuvh53 wrote
1nm is being planned by TSMC now.
[deleted] t1_ixw8mjd wrote
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aew360 t1_ixwcvpf wrote
I thought the article said only 5nm in the US but plans to change to 3nm later. Regardless that’s great for the US!
Frydendahl t1_ixwo2ff wrote
They're setting up a 1nm fab now, will probably start fabricating stuff in 5-7 years or so.
[deleted] t1_ixusng9 wrote
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All_Work_All_Play t1_ixuveof wrote
We're still a few orders of magnitude away from having enough functional qubits. Further, quantum computers are only good at s few specific things, and they'll need fast supporting intermediaries to feed them at reasonable speeds.
Tldr; yes but actually no.
winowmak3r t1_ixv1r9l wrote
It's nowhere near that close lol
nerd4code t1_ixwhy52 wrote
QC isn’t TC. If and when it makes it into the general market, it’ll be on an accelerator card. Eventually there’ll probably be stuff built into the same die as the CPU, but there’ll still have to be an actual CPU that drives things.
Particular-Ad-4772 t1_ixtz79f wrote
This company obviously has major concerns about Chinese invasion.
[deleted] t1_ixud4dl wrote
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crunchypuddle t1_ixvn1rw wrote
You seem to know so I'll ask.
How did the U.S. twist their arm? Was there something in the news indicating the company was being strong armed?
_zenith t1_ixx0xnl wrote
It’s not explicit, so far as I’m aware, but there are a number of very public programs to massively fund semiconductor development domestically, so no doubt people there saw the writing on the wall: “hey so if you move here you won’t lose everything if invaded, and also even if you weren’t, if you didn’t move here we would just fund your competitors who did/were already here”
[deleted] t1_iy0nj7z wrote
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turtleman777 t1_ixw5kir wrote
Offering billions in government subsidies sure is twisting their arm...
baphometromance t1_ixty9nv wrote
Also that logo is about as close to being a ballsack as you can be without actually being a ballsack
fillytopper t1_ixtz0mq wrote
Dirty mind. I immediately think of woven material to hold glass or something spherical, also think of DNA just arranged differently.
But seriously, my thought was you meant that company snuggling up to US (the ballsack) due to political tension.
baphometromance t1_ixtz3iy wrote
"Dirty mind" your name is literally fillytopper
fillytopper t1_ixtza7i wrote
Lol, you got me there. But seriously, you haven't seen mesh netting to hold soccer balls?
baphometromance t1_ixtzd89 wrote
I mean... yeah... sometimes with two balls in them 😳
EddieMuntz t1_ixvps0d wrote
"Chalom as a symbol
A chalom is a kind of Thai bamboo basket used to carry travel items and goods as it has become a symbol of trade in Thailand since ancient times.
The interlaced bamboo strips are strong, resilient, and durable—all qualities that are necessary to bolster the regional economy and help it grow with “stability, prosperity, and sustainability,” the watchwords of the Thai administration. The 21 openings in between the interwoven bamboo strips signify all 21 member economies in APEC.
The characteristics of chalom also reflect the theme of Thailand’s host year, “Open, Connect, Balance,” as in open trade (signified in blue), connectivity (pink), and balance (green) under the Bio-Circular-Green (BCG) Economic Model.
Meet the designer
Chawanon Wongtrakuljong from the Faculty of Architecture, Chulalongkorn University, who submitted the winning design, explained his rationale.
“If you talk about Thai travel, most people would probably think of the tuk-tuk, and if you talk about Thai food, most people would think of tom yum goong… the key factor these two things had in common was ‘time.’ If time is the common denominator, then what has been with the Thai people for a long time in terms of trade and economy?”
Chawanon added that the chalom’s woven bamboo material represents environmental friendliness and its durability represents sustainable cooperation."
https://ottawa.thaiembassy.org/en/content/unveils-logo-for-apec-2022?cate=5f069ee272a783584326eaf8
thEiAoLoGy t1_ixud133 wrote
Holy crab that is big news.
Ser_Danksalot t1_ixusa1z wrote
Is it starting to look like even TSMC are taking the threat of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan seriously?
kakapo-capybara t1_ixu3vlw wrote
He is a real tech hero. Unlike some overrated American self-marketing professionals.
OldGuto t1_ixuw2s4 wrote
Makes a lot of sense to open a fab outside Asia. Potentially risky to open it in the US as that removes some of the incentive for the US to protect Taiwan from the Chinese.
urmyheartBeatStopR t1_ixvc6oe wrote
One of the many incentives to protect Taiwan.
Many nations want China to stay within the first island chain. They're aggressive in term of territory claims.
The current hegemony of USA is more palatable and predictable for them than China's.
To be fair, Taiwan would want USA to be stronger and also the majority of their customers are USA companies.
[deleted] t1_ixu643h wrote
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Thinktank2000 t1_ixvp1y5 wrote
soom they will be measuring in angstroms, 30 angstrom process
McFritjof t1_ixu50pg wrote
Nice, maybe the technocalypse will not be happening.
AK_Sole t1_ixwq4f5 wrote
Anyone have clues as to where in the US these will be manufactured? I would love to invest in the local economy, wherever this may be.
MEATPOPSCI_irl t1_ixvahtw wrote
Cue news from the EPA. The tension between self reliance and shitting in one’s own yard will soon be back.
fillytopper t1_ixtz7yh wrote
Just a move to interweave TW and US relationship in a move to interlink with the US to deter aggression from China. Wonder how this move will play out.
dongkey1001 t1_ixu8ecz wrote
Unfortunately, it is the other way around. This is to limit US exposure to supply interruption just in case Taiwan is invaded. Hence, the US may decide not to defend Taiwan in the event of an invasion.
webs2slow4me t1_ixulhlo wrote
It is the former in the short term and the latter in the long term. So both.
thumbstone t1_ixu1kga wrote
Relevant into is that most high end chips are made in Taiwan.
https://www.theredlinepodcast.com/post/episode-81-the-geopolitics-of-microchips-and-semiconductors
S3HN5UCHT t1_ixtwfoq wrote
Hell yeah more jobs for americans