[removed]

I think take what we need without breaching any sanctions and keep building up a diverse base so we're not dependent on Russia if and when they decide to cut it off again.

This would fuel their war.

I understand we're (Europe) aren't in a great position to cut this off at will as we're too dependent on the supply. If I have it right it's not just about switching to a more expensive supply but actually not having the supply to meet demand which could harm us more than Russia.

I freely admit I've not looked into this exhaustively mainly laziness and the fact I've got not influence about what happens here until and election comes up at which point I'll be looking at the various situations that batter to me.

Question where tf is yamal

Yamal is probably closing soon. Doesn’t get a lot of business anymore.

is there any fact supporting, that it's even necessary to import gas from ruZZia?

[removed]

How about no

Russia blocked natural gas exports via Yamal in May when Poland refused to switch to ruble payment. Their backpedaling now shows that Russia already doesn’t have any leverage over Europe regarding energy exports. This went quicker than expected…

[removed]

Why?

Running out of money to continue the messy, murderous war?

[removed]

Is this a joke? This has to be a joke.

No, it's not necessary. Unless you want affordable energy prices. For decades we made ourselves increasingly dependent on russian energy. It will take time and sacrifice from all of us to change that. One consequence is that people will have trouble warming up their homes in winter. So no, it's not necessary if you're okay with the fact that the poor WILL struggle and some will die.

Nah. Fuck Russia. They can take their gas and shove it up their arse

Jeez they must be desperate now. What's the EUs response?

i'm asking for facts, not speculation.

Large western siberian peninsula, easily locatable on Google maps

Unfortunately you got facts my guy, it’s not as simple as Europe turning off the switch unfortunately. Fuck Putin

[removed]

You don't seem to know what facts are, as you just got some

[removed]

Are they ready to stop killing Ukrainians? No? Yes? Doesn’t matter anymore, Europe doesn’t actually need it. Take their gas pipeline and shove it

My thoughts exactly. Get fucked

Its super mild here what do you need gas for?

And the right answer is : please don’t bother. We want to stop using fossil fuels.

This is the truth, people are being forced to make a horrible sacrifice nobody should have to make. Make no mistake this is putin’s war and these are what he knows to be the side effects. Slava Ukraini

Yes but I want my gran to have a heated home.

Buy your gran some nice winter clothing, blankets and some electric heaters

Just look at one. If you've seen one, you've seen Yamal.

It's not as easy as turning a switch, but it's not like Russia is the only gas exporter in the world. Prices went crazy because there was a sudden shift in supply. It takes time to shift to different suppliers. As things stabilize, you'll see prices normalize again.

They won't ever go as low as the Russian prices, because those had a hidden cost. But even now the gas prices are already much more reasonable. The poor will need some support, but in general it's looking like most people will be just fine.

The ability to export gas does take significant infrastructure though which not only takes money but a lot of time to physically build. This is one of the larger choke holds on the situation from my understanding

We are seeing improvements in LNG technology however which could potentially provide some alleviation but it’s still not on the scale to support the majority of Europe

You can be ready, doesn’t mean we care tho

Also prices “went crazy” because gas companies saw an opportunity to hike prices to make record profits, let’s not lie to ourselves. Their balance sheets are public knowledge, it’s not even a conspiracy

Jfc do you not have google? Russia has about 14% of the world's gas supply. That's an insane amount. Look at the size and placement of russia on a map and you'll se why they have these resources. It would take you 5 minutes to google. The reason we didn't start off with numbers is that we expect people to have this basic knowledge. Even my 13 year old knows this.

«Haha, what?”

thanks, that was were I was going with my question. Right now the prices are pre-war and they were artificially high caused by panic and the gas companies exploring this very quickly and people running along with it.

Yup, unfortunately you are dead on here

The EU consumption of natural gas has dropped by 20.1% in the period August-November 2022, compared with the average gas consumption for the same months (August-November) between 2017 and 2021. The demand is not currently there but remains to be see what the Russian discount price will be. I Imaging Europe has little appetite for Russian Gas though at any price.

Yeeee... no thanks we don't need it any more.

A better answer is stick your gas up your pipeline!

My understanding is Europe already has enough gas stored for this winter.

Plus Germany is now getting its gas by sea.

By next winter Canada will be producing enough for Europe to factor Russia out.

Russia: "we-we're resuming gas exports to the west.. ple-plwease buy. I need money for the wa- I-I mean special miwitawry operation in Ukraine"

The west: "sure, if you can... PAY US! " insert non-coherent laughter here

Russia is truly utterly desperate to say this and in top of that send their miserable propagandist to push here such idiotic arguments.

Or leave your gas in your ass.

That's the wrong answer! Europe is already feeling the energy crisis. Do you want to doom ordinary people who just want to heat up their homes? Look at Germany! Buying up coal heaters and coal..

Russia's economy must be really hurting. They couldn't peddle enough of their oil to India and China to make up for the loss from EU countries and they are now hoping the EU will let them back in lol.

This is good news for the war front, who knows how much longer Russia can keep this up. Add this to the news that Russia is willing to negotiate and Putin is in trouble.

If you are worried about people who can’t heat their homes I’d worry about Texas before Germany.

[deleted]

Do not underestimate corrupt politicians and the masses that follow their promises.

[deleted]

Russia will never be respected again with Putin as their leader. Putin literally pussy foots around the war like it’s nothing while he destroys 2 counties including his own and hurts the world.

Either apply.

ser·vile /ˈsərv(ə)l,ˈsərˌvīl/ adjective

1. having or showing an excessive willingness to serve or please others. "he bowed his head in a servile manner"

2. of or characteristic of a slave or slaves. "the servile condition of the peasants"

"We good fam"

Trade with Russia? Yes. Trade with Putins Russia? Nope.

Get rid of this mass murderer, don‘t replace him with an other insane guy and we could be partners again.

Otherwise, get the fuck lost.

[removed]

I'd just dress warmer and use some electric heaters

Millions of ordinary Ukrainians will suffer much, much more than a bit of cold if we start buying Russian gas/oil en mass again.

If my choice is between cold extremities and dead or oppressed Ukrainians, I'm going to just chuck on gloves and more socks.

Ending the war just so it can end now will do Jack shit, because it will start again in a few years when Putin has refilled his ammo stores and his barracks, and then more people will die, be tortured and get raped.

Somehow, you found a way to make importing Russian gas palatable : making them pay us.

Good job, have an upvote.

Headlines like this do more harm than good (Russias intent)... because so many will read it with little context and say "Well then lets do it! If they want to be friends again!"

Youd think by now people would understand not to take things at face value alone, and to always be skeptical of everything.

Looks like someone is broke. How about pull out of Ukraine and Europe will think about it.

Considering India and China basically get to set their price because there isn't anybody else to buy it they're desperate.

Of course they’re “ready”. Those clowns are hilarious.

War ends when Russia gets interested in ending it by getting out of all of Ukraine including Crimea and Donbas along with returning all Ukrainians taken to Russia.

It's as simple as that.

[deleted]

Will they pull their shitty ads they’re running too?

Because of enormous amount of effort in a really short time. It's literally cost billions. And we all know we should have done it years ago with how dangerous and volatile russia is, but we didn't and it's costing countries and families. It's a price most of us are willing to pay, amd we understand the absolute necessity, but to say things are no problem is a lie.

Nope. They are trying to Influence the european population. Yesterday there were plenty of headlines, that russia wants to end the war via negotiations. Today this. This is all to weaken the support of the europeans to continue to support ukraine.

you know that most of the peak electricity is generated by natural gas?

Yeah well, a lot hasn't gone exactly to plan the way Russia originally thought already so we shall see.

What I see: a crack dealer who was withholding supply expecting their customers to bend over backwards begging to get it back, is now panicking because instead their customer is getting clean.

I didn’t realize Europe asked for any

> Add this to the news that Russia is willing to negotiate

"Russia is willing to negotiate" only if they get to keep half of Ukraine and make the rest a puppet state of Russia. That is their inalienable starting point. A serious starting point for negotiations would be to first remove all Russian military from the entire country of Ukraine, including Crimea; then they can start to negotiate over war reparations and prosecution of war criminals.

Russia severely underestimates both the amount of hate they have created against them and the lenght of the memory europeans have of their terror tactics agains europeans.

A small sacrifice to pay for watching Ukraine destroy Russia's military and ability to threaten the rest of Europe. Find other ways to keep warm for a couple of months, in return for not having to worry about being invaded? Seems like a pretty good deal.

I dont agree. There are several populist parties that gratefully use russias messages to strengthen their support in the population and have success with this. For example the AFD (a far right German Party) now is supported by 15% of the Germans. Before they were around 10%.

Yeah lol

You'd be surprised about how quickly the common people forget. How else would bad politicians, governments or regimes get back into power after being proven wrong first time?

Oil gas Wells cannot be turned off and on. Russia must be running out of storage.

Doesn't have to depend on hate. They attacked Ukraine, they are in the wrong, they will continue to be in the wrong for the rest of this war.

They can't go around the fact that their crimes were volountary.

It's more to do with industry and it's use of LNG than individual citizens...

They press the buttons they have. It's in part an effort to generate headlines.

Who reads this article without understanding that Russia must end the war first?

I guess the view is different when you live right next to Russia vs having a couple of countries as bufferzones.

"Ryssä on Ryssä, vaikka sen voissa paistaisi"

This seems to be a larger issue in countries with FPTP voting, but you do have an unfortunately accurate point.

I don't understand why ppl don't look at what the parties did when they were in power when new elections are held.

If Russia was not in such a bad state, negotiating would not be on the table.

A common negotiation tactic is to ask for everything you want and to negotiate it down from there. Doesn't mean they will get anything. Also, just because Russia is willing to negotiate doesn't mean Ukraine will at the moment.

"doesn’t have any leverage over Europe regarding energy exports"

meanwhile europe electric, oil and gas prices goes brrr *insert confused pikachu face*

nah fuck that, we don't want your gas putin

They don‘t, all prices (wholesale AND consumer) have massively come down since their peak in September. Seems like the worst is over.

https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/energiemonitor-deutschland-gaspreis-spritpreis-energieversorgung

Scroll down to „Wie sich die Preise für Energie entwickeln“ („How Energy prices evolve“).

Yeah after their propaganda tv commercial of Europe without power, they can get bent.

[removed]

[removed]

Those are cool and informative graphs, thanks for the link!

It's a rather amusing cycle... They make threats, and when those go unanswered they propose talks, maybe gas, and when thats ignored it's back to threats. This is the Russian playbook lol.

What Russian propaganda does to the average Serbian:

Doing better than the UK's

Contrary to your Russian propaganda, they do not.

Yes! Great idea to keep on being dependent on fossil fuels from Russia instead of using the momentum to switch to greener AND independent energy! Genius! /s

It's clear that man can't read. Why even try?

Fuck em. I bought all European families I know blankets this year for Christmas. Russia can keep their literally bloody oil.

Under no circumstances must the free world consume Putin gas, until Putin and his regime leaves Russia.

The West must now turn to Venezuela for its gas and oil supplies, the biggest or second biggest oil reserves in the world.

still i would argue that running a single electric blanket is more efficient than warming a whole room, apartment or even house

[removed]

They're literally on the verge of cutting off the land bridge to Crimea. Thats the last hurdle. Once that gets completed, the liberation of Crimea is inevitable.

We don't want it!

Europe is getting natural gas from Norway mainly.

Mainly and the UK has a direct gas pipeline from Iceland but this is not enough to fulfil Europe needs for gas.

I thought the collective minds of the EU would have struck a deal with Venezuela, instead the US has got in there first.

Yeah and it's not like this invasion came out of nowhere. Hello, Russia has been trying to reclaim former territories of the USSR piece by piece since its collapse. Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea. All these russian invasions the world looked past. The Ukrainian invasion may have been bigger, but if the Ukrainians hadn't shown the incredible backbone and competence at repelling the invasion and actually got large parts of their country occupied with no chance of taking it back, I guarantee that five to ten years later the world would have looked upon this situation with the same apathy they ascribe to those previous invasions. There is, infuriatingly, STILL opinions present that Ukraine should allow Russia to keep parts of its territory in exchange for peace. Some people never change.

It must frustrate them to no end when neither of these cards they used to successfully play work, and they check their playbook only to find that they have nothing else to play.

Hello Russian troll, EU gas prices are actually very reasonable right now.

How's the Russian front lines going for ya lmao

You mean the former KGB guy? It's almost like people who run triple letter agencies make bad leaders.

I’m really impressed with how quickly Germany has moved!

The wait now is mostly Canada getting its supply up!

Honestly I don't get why someone hasn't assassinated Putin already.

[removed]

Nah, the the three letter agencies are just derivatives of an unhealthy society. They'd likely make fine leaders of a useful entity.

[removed]

I hope no one forgets that 200k people so far died at the hands of these assholes. No I don't want your oil.

Gas plants are a tiny amount of electricity overall.

That’s not true.

"Hey Russian sympathisers, how's losing to Ukraine going?"

"European gas prices...? :("

Oh fine... Even if Europe suddenly agrees, then give it three months and it will again be "Russia threatens to cut off gas if Europe does not stop supplying weapons to Ukraine." Obviously, until the conflict in Ukraine is resolved, Russia will use gas and oil supplies as an influence on Europe. And even if we remove the fact of the war in Ukraine, this is still a serious problem for Europe, which, regardless of the situation, is better to solve sooner rather than later....

Personally ME ready to pay big bills if it will help Europe get rid of the influence of another tyrant with a nuclear club....

No? Please elaborate.

Sorry bro. No matter how hard you beat off to the thought of Europeans freezing to death due to lack of Russian gas, it's not going to happen.

Yes there is a need for more plants that can take LNG and turn it back to gas. There isn't nearly enough capacity for that yet. But there has been significant progress already in Germany, where it is needed most. These plants are usually slow to build because of bureaucratic issues and a lack of urgency. However when there is a strong need to get capacity up and running quickly, you'd be surprised how quickly those plants can be up and running. Next winter might not yet see many of those being operational, but by the winter after that they absolutely will be. Combined with the already 20% reduction in gas usage in Europe on such short notice, I'm not particularly worried. Nothing breeds efficiency like necessity.

Mind you I'm from a country that was bombed to rubble by both the Nazis and the Allies back in WW2. People are more resilient than they think. If my grandparents could live through that 80 years ago and the Ukrainians can do it now... I'll be just fine doubling up on blankets. We're still the lucky ones in this whole ordeal...

AfD is currently losing on a weekly basis with 13.8% currently. Prices have come down that’s all it took.

https://dawum.de/Bundestag/

[removed]

Sounds like you’re from Poland?

You’d still have to heat your house to avoid the pipes from bursting.

It's not for the shll, it's for the rest of us.

Well, he did an impressive job for the first decade or so. Authoritarian, killed a lot of people for political gain, but dragged Russia out of the post-collapse gutter.

But then Putin decided that he would never join the club with the Evil Western Powers.

And then he decided that he could bully Ukraine with no consequences. And then he decided that he could invade Ukraine with no consequences. And he decided to do it at possibly the worst possible time, when the US arms industry was sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

And then he doubled down. And doubled down again. And again, and again.

And now Russia is ruined, and he’ll be remembered as one of the worst rulers in modern history. (But still not the worst in Russia’s modern history, oof)

He still hasn't upset/lost enough of his key supporters. Some of them might already be ready to get rid of him, but not enough of them.

And thus he still has enough security that a simple assasination plot by f.ex. Ukraine is incredibly hard to pull off.

Check out this CGP Grey - Rules for Rules vid for a more in depth explanation.

This is the part that Putin and the rest of the ruling Russians don't understand about the West.

In Russsia that's just a Tuesday, but not so for us. Our morals are completely different from what is normal in Russia.

So yea. No tanks, no oil or natural gas from murderous facists. We'll find another way.

Europe shouldn’t take this bait. Keep on becoming independent from Russian energy. Build those LNG terminals like Germany.

This varies wildly from one country to another.

So we are talking about 1%point deviation. Sorry, my dude. This is ridiculous.

Youve lost every gram of respectability putin in a civilised world from which you are isolating in a downward spiral.stick your gas up your bottom for all the civilised world cares you children of the universe killer-old frail persons terrorizor!....heres a tip-just drop the war machine tactic-just stop it all ,drop it n leave it be for russias peoples future 2 rejoin the civilised world

I want mine to stay alive

Just curious, i'm not a specialist : isn't the right wording 1 point instead of 1% point ?

My favorite is how he goes on TV and then portrays mother Russia as a hapless victim in all this.

From a news story last week on BBC World Service, many countries in Europe have already stockpiled the fuel their countries need to make it through the winter. The reporter did point out that if the last part of winter turns out to be exceptionally cold, they'll go through the reserves faster and cause a strain on oil prices by the time they need to restock next winter.

I don't see Ukraine willing to give away any more of its land. Russia wants to control the country, but as we've seen, they would never be able to take the whole thing by force. They have to come take out bites every so often.

Zelenskyy knows full well that he could get them to back off by giving up a large percentage of his territory, but he also knows that if he does, there's not much to stop Russia from coming back for more later. This is why he's pushed for his country to be whole again.

translation : Putin needs money

There are also new long term contracts with other suppliers. Even if Europe wants to buy Russian gas again it will not be as much as in the past. At least not for quite a while. Gas usage has gone down and a lot of the old Russian market share has been substituted by other suppliers on the long term. Something which can due to the contracts not just be undone.

As much as this is discussed, India really was lagging behind china and Europe, and in this situation, both India and China set the terms, so that's definitely not favourable for Russia, so I can see this move being a way to win Europe's favour in some way, obviously it doesn't look like it's gonna work out for them.

Not sure, but you may be right. I am not a native speaker. In my language it is percentage points.

I know that very well. Hopefully the Western leaders will too. But they should have learned that lesson with Crimea.

Nope, Belgium.

EU gas prices currently sit at +20% since the beginning of the year lol! And the electricity prices are set based on gas prices.

Not Putin. George W. Bush dragged Russia out of the gutter by sending the oil price into the stratosphere in the early 2000s.

Under 12 % in Germany, if anybody is interested.

True. That and Kasyanov's rather generic post-soviet economic reforms.

Yes, but the problem is that you still need to move around the house. You can't just hide ina warm corner all the time. Dampness is likely to build up without heating and ventilation, which will go into the lungs along with cold air. I do use a (non-electric) onesie sometimes to keep the heating off and it works great, but it doesn't substitute heating.

This is probably more about industrial use than residential.

Do we still even need their gas?

Dropped heating to 19

Thats it.

Were fine , nato is fine, , we dont need their gas

Unless they wanna sell it cheap.

You mean to tell me that it is not? /s

Russia isn’t great at not picking bad leaders. They tried for a couple decades but then said “nah”

[removed]

That's nice. But mostly that's funny.

Yet europe will slurp up his gas and pretend they aren’t funding him

Cope recorded.

We are not interested in their gas. They can keep it. We will make our own! (Proceeding to open a can of beans...).

At this point, not really! However if the war suddenly ended and their gas was priced below market, Europe would obviously resume buying that gas.

Holland has his own gas, but buying is cheaper lol

Also gas prices dropped some 40% on a few days as the market realised the reservoirs were indeed full.

[removed]

Wasn't Bush praised everywhere lately (for basically not being Trump)? Wasn't he responsible for 500.000 deaths lying about WMD? In 10 years nobody will give a fuck