You can get custom posted signs, just make one that says no ATV/UTVs. I'm wondering if your drive is a trail on some maps. Alot of these maps use AI to generate the maps and they make mistakes.

Just call the police. Btw you pay taxes so you pay for the state police.

Posted signs will only stop the honest people. Atv Kids (this is a separate Group from the others) these days have no respect for peoples property. If you really want to stop them you’re gonna have to really fence off your property or start cutting trees down to block off the area. They will find a way.

You can’t really raise a fuss about it either without ruining it for the honest ones.

I like how you say this as if ATV Riders in the 80s or 70s were any better... they def were not.

Yes check this. Google maps has lots of private lanes and drives shown in rural PA. I am guessing they are on township maps.

Unfortunately in rural areas you have to mark drives/lanes private and post property. The new method using purple paint makes it a lot easier. Not sure how well recognized that is yet.

Welcome to Pennsyltucky. In north central PA it's tractors and ATVs...

Honestly, if you are up against game lands and are not posting it, you are just asking for trouble. That is public land, people will have no idea (or care) where your line is

Get cameras and post signs and then prosecute.

I love when people say "kids these days". Kids never had respect for where they rode their quads. Back in the 80's we rode wherever we could' private, state land, wherever...

OP, having land that abuts State Game lands is even more reason to post your land. People might not know they crossed into private. Where I live almost everyone posts their property.

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State game lands are not open to atv riding. State forests only on designated trails.

If I’m remembering correct there is no ATV/UTV riding allowed in any PA Gamelands.

2 options before calling the police. Post your land up with signage. If that does not work, grab a chainsaw and block their access.

I really think we live in a world where our concerns are just way off. Nobody likes to see anyone having any kind of fun. I’m convinced Pa is home to mostly a bunch of grumpy old men and women.

It’s not allowed but goes largely un-enforced.

Trespassing is not “any kind of fun” dipshit.

Matters not if it isn't enforced.

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Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.

It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.

Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.

Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.

Just chiming in to say I respect you very much for not posting your private property and allowing hunters. Thanks. The world needs more people like you.

So you're argument is "stop being mad when people are inconsiderate pricks".

Nice take. Someday you may own property that you worked hard to purchase and maintain. Let us know how you feel then.

Haha...good bot.

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I do own my own house. I have fences and that keeps ppl out. I don’t come on to Reddit to cry about some ppl riding atvs pass my house.

Post your land, it’ll keep 99% of ATVs off your land.

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Get a camera. Put up private property and no trespassing signs that are plainly visible.

You also might want to talk to a lawyer.

Anyone on your property is potentially your liability. Although those ATV’s are supposed to be registered, titled and insured, it’s likely that some are not.

The DNR website states that all law enforcement in PA are authorized to enforce the Snowmobile/ATV law, including state police.

You might not want to call them, but if there’s an accident or an incident on your property they will need to respond. It’s their job to cover rural areas when there’s no local PD.

There also must be a sheriff’s office that’s in your county.

Gate the driveway and run a stainless steel cable through your fence posts around your perimeter.

Posted signs are a good idea as well but in reality won't stop them from cutting through your property if they want to, a strong perimeter defence will.

Add '90's & early 2000's too.

>Anyone on your property is potentially your liability. Although those ATV’s are supposed to be registered, titled and insured, it’s likely that some are not

^^ This^^.

IANAL, but almost certain if you don't have visible "Private property, NO atvs (+add what ever else)" signs, then YOU technically ARE responsible for "whatever happens" on said property. Might be worth the few hundo to consult w/property attorney, even if just for liability purposes.

I just want to stress this: blocking access with trees or other "normal", visible obstructions is 100% fine. Also do the purple paint thing and follow up with "no trespassing" signs.

There are a lot of SGL near me and in the off seasons I do a lot of hiking through there. There are several property owners, both private and industrial, that abut the SGLs and they are slathered with purple paint and signage. It is impossible to stumble onto their property accidentally.

Whenever posts like this come up, idiots will chime in with "hurr durr, hang a cable or piano wire across the trail, it's private property so legally you can do whatever you want". Do not listen to them. This is illegal. Regardless of whether or not it actually kills anyone, you'll wind up with criminal charges and a SUBSTANTIAL civil lawsuit, which you will unconditionally lose. Your homeowners insurance will not defend you.

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Oh yes, please do not boobytrap your property 😂

I live in the city I put up a fence for my dog

> Whenever posts like this come up, idiots will chime in with "hurr durr, hang a cable or piano wire across the trail, it's private property so legally you can do whatever you want". Do not listen to them. This is illegal. Regardless of whether or not it actually kills anyone, you'll wind up with criminal charges and a SUBSTANTIAL civil lawsuit, which you will unconditionally lose. Your homeowners insurance will not defend you.

For context, something that can be commonly assumed to be a 'booby trap' is illegal, no matter if you own the land or not.

Legally, if there’s no barrier to entry and no signage it’s not trespassing until you tell them not to enter your property yourself. At that point if they re enter your property, it’s trespassing. Put up signs and do the purple markers between them. Most responsible ATVers respect that sort of thing.

Let me guess: Minersville? I heard they recently started allowing them on the roads.

What about titty snares?

I am physically hurt by this pun.

What if I wanna bring my dog through your yard?

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Why don't you want people to have fun?

I live in an area that also doesn't have local cops, only PSP and from experience they largely do not care and never show up when you do call.

My work is done here!

warning shots

One of the few things that has stuck with me from law school and preparing for the bar lo these many years ago, is that there is a very low duty of care to trespassers upon your land, but there is a duty to warn of "known, man-made deathtraps", even to people on your land illegally. So, yeah, no booby-traps.

They’re also not allowed on roadways, but we see how well that works in Philly.

PA is becoming absolutely flooded with ATV traffic and someday something bad is gonna happen.

as do so many things

As a Philadelphian, I'm shocked at how much I relate to this problem, here it's city streets instead of private property and gamelands, but we have large groups of dirt bikes and ATVs mucking up traffic and scaring people every time the weather is nice. We have a ton of cops, but they're unable or unwilling to do anything about it. Wish you luck.

> Btw you pay taxes so you pay for the state police.

Nah, that PSP budget is paid for from the motor vehicle fund, which is supposed to be for critical infrastructure maintenance. Municipalities that don't pay for local cops and rely on PSP instead are robbing the state of crucial budget for reliability and safety on our roadways.

If you really don’t want anyone to come down your lane go online and order some “Danger radiation Hazard” signs. And post them where they would enter. I had to have them on my work vehicle and when we would work in the city I would put them in the windows and the ticket maids wouldn’t dare go near my vehicle or ticket me when the meter ran out. Worked like a charm for years.

Radiation Hazard Sign

If your property is close to or abuts PA game lands, put up signs and then contact the state game warden's office. If the riders are hunters they'll stop once they realize they can lose their license for such violations.

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If they are going on state game lands, call the game commission. Game wardens are law enforcement officers. Https://www.pgc.pa.gov

What if you put up adequate signage saying there are man-made deathtraps all over this property?

When I was a kid my helmet got caught by wire stretched between two trees. If I was standing two inches taller it would've hit my neck and not my helmet/goggles. Scariest thing that's ever happened to me on a bike

Part of it is paid for by the fund. The PSP absolutely has a budget built into the state budget separate from the MVF.

Thanks. Signage is probably the way to go. I hadn’t thought about a potential Google mapping issue.

Further North but it looks like a statewide issue.

They’re two totally different scenarios, tho I am not sure which is worse. If I were this guy, I’d be super pissed because they’re driving over my property and it’s pretty much only affecting me. On the other hand, the swarms of ATV and dirt bike riders that we have downtown are definitely much more dangerous.. but danger isn’t localized to my property and I might never even encounter the swarm personally. In both scenarios the likelihood they are armed is high.

Personally, I have no position on either issue because neither has arisen in a way that negatively impacts my life or the lives of anyone I know.

Thanks, we’re trying to be good neighbors.

Also openstreetmap.org

They let the public edit the database, they have trails, and other mapping software use their data. I've seen and edited out obsolete trail data.

Setting up booby traps is illegal. No matter what. When I say "known man made death traps", I mean something like the following (which is a case I actually had): A deep, but narrow trench cut on someone's land is covered by high grass that is cut at the end of the season and then the property got covered in snow, making the trench completely invisible. Man walks dog on the property (trespassing), dog got loose, while the guy was chasing the dog he fell into the trench and suffers serious injuries.

If you set up a bunch of punji traps on your property, not only are you going to get sued if someone gets injured, you're probably also going to get arrested, regardless of signage.

This all comes with the admonishment that this is not legal advice and you should not rely on it for anything except, maybe, entertainment purposes.

Unfortunately, that's what the rest of us experience with our local cops most of the time.

If they're riding in the gamelands, call the game commission. Then it's not a waste of resources, it's a utilization of resources.

In Schuylkill County, the wardens are pretty active and helpful.

They may have been lost or had a reason they needed to get to a real road ASAP. I was up in Snowshoe RTT and got off trail once and ended up on someone’s private road by accident. I got out of there as quickly and quietly as possible. I get lost around my house on my dirtbike all the time. This also happened to me on my mountain bike, and I just had to get to a road since I was miles off course and getting really thirsty. Hopefully this was a one time event for you.

That paint fades so fast, it is nearly impossible to see. Use weatherproof signs.

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Circling a cop car, taunting them to do something.

People learn from what they see. Riots burning centers of cities. Buildings looted, and burned with no consequences.

The mayor,Kinney has told the Philly cops not to chase or harass ATV’s on the streets of Philly

I do I just don’t want my dog to runaway….. other wise as long as you’re not fucking my shit up have fun be young

Signs are not a legal protection. ie: Beware Attack Dog.

Guess what, if that dog attacks an intruder, he can sue you for damages, signage or not.

Waste of their time. They will come out tell you to post the property if that doesn’t work then block access and put up cameras. They can’t do anything without knowing who it was catching them in the act.

For the vast majority of the state, that is simply not true. ATV's on PA gamelands is actually one of the most heavily enforced things on the gamelands. You do not want to fuck around with that.

Wow scary signs! Good advice!

I figured booby traps would be illegal, but I was curious about the legality of signage a duty of care.

i will second this. In many high atv traffic areas there can be unwritten rules between land owners that posted signs are for other uses... hunting, etc... and atv trails are open for all unless specifically posted. for example, in the area we own land, posted signs are essentially ignored outside of hunting season, and between a few dozen landowners there is a huge network of atv trails that goes through all the different properties. during hunting season, we know to stay to our own properties.

now, you put up a "no atv's past this point" sign... well, then things change. that means you dont ride on that property, or down that trail unless you have permission.

so id suggest putting up a sign specific saying no ATV/UTV's first. might you get a couple random morons? sure. but that is going to happen no matter what outdoor activity people are doing. hiking, biking, hunting, atvs...

As someone who works very closely with trail data and OpenStreetMap, please go in to open street map and mark trails that are actually private as private! If you need help, have any questions, or just want someone else to make the actual edits, please message me, or go on /r/OpenStreetMap

Safe to say they are talking about state forests. 90% of people use state game, state forest, and state park interchangeably, as for 90% of the people, the differences don't matter..

Nothing like Maine, they are more common in fall and spring than cars as it is the locals enjoying the absence of tourists on the road. I live miles down a dirt road and the four wheelers are past my drive everyday but respect my signs blocking my tote roads to vehicles. My dogs run the property as well so they did discourage people from coming up the drive .

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to booby trap your yard, lol.

> but we have large groups of dirt bikes and ATVs mucking up traffic

That's cause they're super easy to steal or even buy since they don't require registration, and those dopes probably don't have driver's licenses. It's super easy to out run and maneuver cops on a dirt bike.

Not to be a dick but you don’t freeload. PA has the highest gas taxes in the nation and PSP OT racked up policing places like where you live is where the majority of that tax revenue goes to.

As far as your problem…unfortunately, signage and fencing are your only options.

Depends on the people who taught them to ride. I’ve ridden with people who asked for permission before even stepping foot on land, picked up trash and fixed things as they went. There’s good riders out there.

I’m saying kids because that’s the issue my area is having is kids tearing up and destroying equipment which is causing land that old timers rode on to get closed down.

There were over 10,000 arrests stemming from the protests last summer but you ignore that because you just want to bitch

Purple paint?

Shoot first ask questions later

OP isn’t crying. He’s asking advice to deal with it. Feel free to scroll past it.

In small towns there are municipal permits for atvs and designated roads, mostly dirt. Farmers can also take pretty much anything on a road up to even children driving trucks.

Yes. As an alternative to posting the traditional no hunting signs, you can use purple blazes on the trees to indicate it’s no hunting.

Thanks. Didnt know!

Also safe to say that the guy who’s property abuts the land may know what he’s talking about.

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It’s anywhere between 1/2 to 1/3 depending on how much the give out of the general fund(which is where the majority of the rest comes from)

I did not know they had their own reddit - thanks.

where are you? mt jewett?

Post it "NO MOTOR VEHICLES"

just the fact that he used the word "abuts" was enough to get my vote of confidence lol

I’m over in Susquehanna County.

I put signs, and tried all the civil ways. Then placed huge rocks blocking the paths that led into my yard. They just found new ways. What did work however is being in the right place at the right time and horse collaring the lead rider off the back of his quad. At first tensions were high for obvious reasons, then we worked it out. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE ANSWER, just saying what eventually worked for me.

yeah. its really a silly thing to nitpick in general. OP didnt even suggest that the atv riding was happening on the state owned land, or if the riding is on the state land, that it was being done legally. it was basically a completely non relevant detail.

>I don't want to post my place because it abuts the Gamelands.

this is a glaring part of your post that i dont understand. ...but I want to. I guess i just dont get your reasoning. not saying you are wrong, im just wondering what your motivation NOT to post the property is? Is it that you dont want the eye sore of posted signs facing serene wilderness? if so... just focus the signs to where the problem trail is. no need to do the whole propertyline if you dont want to.

Gl hf

What should you do about it? Go about your business wtf ?

Definitely check openstreetmap. A lot of other apps will use openstreetmap data, so if there's a trail on there it will show up elsewhere. If it's your property you can delete the trails or mark them as private.

I don’t want to limit hunting access due to the high whitetail numbers. I think I will follow the advice about no motor vehicles signs and check those maps.

When I was a toddler, I would tape cd’s to a string and string them across doorways. My thought being that the holes were nipple sized and they’d catch some boobies. I was convinced booby traps were for actual boobies

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I've been curious about this! I've been seeing purple paint EVERYWHERE and have been thinking "there's no way that this is ALL owned by a single person" lololol

100% this post. Block their access. Completely your right to do so with your land.

Wait so purple just means no hunting, not no tresspassing?

Aluminum/plastic signs on eBay are cheaper and longer lasting vs purple paint. I agree.

So...you can't dig a hole on your own property?

Yeah, call the commission, they love busting people for this kind of stuff.

> I just want to stress this: blocking access with trees or other "normal", visible obstructions is 100% fine. Also do the purple paint thing and follow up with "no trespassing" signs.

Also, take pictures of this when you do it. Later, if you put up the obstructions (trees, fences) and some idiot gets hurt, you can say that you marked the trails ahead of putting up the blockades.

It's a special purple paint btw it can't be any type of purple.

Well no hunting/trespassing. I know it from the hunting part but it can be used for both.

Stand you ground laws exist you know as well. Intruders can't sue if they have no life.

I get where you're coming from, but it's more than money. I'd rather have state cops patrolling the rural areas than extremely underfunded local agencies that are deputizing anyone who can carry a gun.

That's been policy since at least somewhere around 2010-2011, maybe earlier. I remember because where I was living at the time had a lot of dirtbike/ATV activity. The cops chased one, the ATV driver hit and injured/killed a pedestrian trying to flee, and now here we are.

I'll agree that Philly is a total shitshow right now but it can't all be laid at Kenney's/Krasner's feet. PPD has been completely useless for a looooong time. Living at that same place I heard a woman get kidnapped, screaming for her life as her voice faded away with the vehicle she'd been dragged into. I called 911 several times with no answer so I called the police district. Their reaction was literally "what do you want us to do about it?" This was over ten years ago. Around the same time I was robbed at gunpoint west of Drexel campus and the police insisted on filing it as a theft, not a robbery. I can go on and on and on.

edit: and for the record I voted for both of them and I'm really disappointed in them both. I'm seriously disappointed in our city from top to bottom, honestly

That's fine, then start taxing those areas that want to do that. Wolf was trying to do that but the state wasn't having it.

It's annoying because the rest of the state is footing the bill even more than we already do from a pool of money that's desperately needed. When Leslie was still the PennDOT Sec, she told me PennDOT would need TRIPLE the funding they currently have just to tread water on bridge maintenance (and like 50% of our bridges are structurally deficient as it is).

And now they have even less because some small towns want police and don't want to pay for it.

I see more game taken by folks that don’t use atv/utv’s than those that do. You can’t sneak up on game with a loud motor echoing around.

Yeah, I mean there are models out there that other states use to manage the law in large rural areas. This isn't rocket science.

But like I'm saying, the problem with making it the responsibility of, say, county sheriffs is that county sheriffs offices end up becoming corrupt as fuck and people get hurt. Imagine predatory sheriffs offices detaining tourists from the city, rinse, repeat.

There's got to be a better way.

Allentown banned them, but there aren't enough police to enforce the apprehension of riders.

You can always block them in if you know where the trail ends, wait and talk to them about driving through.

Game lands as well as DCNR lands...

Some steel, iron or.metal pipes buried in the ground. Cement them in as well as fill them with cement. Have them sticking out at least 3-4 feet, make sure you paint them, yellow or other noticeable color. UTVs are huge now so you can keep them about 2 1/2- 3 feet apart... post the property, purple paint on the trees and tell anyone you see its private. Get some game cameras up to catch those who skirt through....

Nobody said that. But you do need to make it so that a reasonable person (even one who was trespassing) wouldn't fall in it accidentally. Because lots of trespass is legal and sometimes even required.

If you get caught up in my neck of the literal woods, you’re FUCKED.

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to be snarky, just don't understand sometimes😅

My morbid curiosity has gotten to me. What happened to the trespasser?

One word: caltrops

I'm having a hard time believing this easy breezy attitude considering you're last comment you threatened to kill me

Move

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The paint itself is not special, it's where and how it is applied.

https://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/centers/private-forests/news/the-201cpurple-paint-law201d-a-new-way-to-post-your-property

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Was it intended to be some kind of booby trap or was it just like a drainage ditch?

I know someone who died that way. Awful

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Signage, cameras, and gates

Nope, doesn't matter.

Because others can enter someone else’s property without criminal intent, the law views setting up a booby trap as going beyond defense and into endangering the lives of others.

It's apparently against the Geneva convention too.

That is what the district attorney will call "Exhibit A".

The spring/summer after my first winter in my house, I had to put up a fence, strategically placed boulders and have trees planted around my property to keep people off.

I opted to forego calling local police or ask people to stop, ect. Dealing with small town folks can be tricky, and every town has their own unwritten social rules. Since I own this home and knew I plan to live here probably forever, I wanted to keep things smooth and not ruffle feathers as the "newcomer."
I was also single young woman at the time. I didn't want to set myself up for any trouble, either. Paying for some landscaping was easiest and seemed natural for a new homeowner to do anyway. I haven't had any problems with people coming on my property since.

I've been caught in those more than once. Funny thing is you don't really try to get out too fast.

sadly, there's not a whole lot that can be done about it. The state is starting facilitate it with programs to interconnect public trails and every municipality where I live has passed laws to allow them and snowmobiles on roads. All summer I get a steady stream of side by sides past my house at all hours.

🤷‍♂️ its legal people do it regularly. sure you internet lubbers probably think thats wrong but how much do you really care. I say let them rip up the guy who asks reddit what to do's lawn. or he could put up a sign. it might be good to consider maybe theyve been riding there for their whole lives. either way i was very surprised nobody suggested warning shots.