Comments
ZippityZooZaZingZo t1_j026dmw wrote
Obviously.
PuritanSettler1620 t1_j027t8s wrote
That is the price of progress.
occasional_cynic t1_j027v6l wrote
Next headline "How Logan Airport exacerbates inequities among underserved communities." The author has a degree in "Rhetoric" from UCal Berkeley. I could not even make that up if I tried.
Also, East Boston destroyed part of Boston Harbor in the first place.
edit: whoa, guess the I angered the skinny-jeans/beanie cap wearing hipsters here.
asianyo t1_j028qjt wrote
Things change as the needs of society shift, more at 11
samueljbrewer1 t1_j02cka7 wrote
We can also look at decisions being made at our public spaces today and think about how they may impact our communities down the line. For instance, this morning Mayor Wu announced an action plan for Franklin Park: https://www.boston.gov/news/mayor-wu-announces-release-franklin-park-action-plan
SlightlyStoopkid t1_j02ejvf wrote
we should take logan airport, and push it somewhere else!
guitmusic12 t1_j02k47p wrote
Crush Newton
BUZZUKKA t1_j02kw7e wrote
What is the point of this article? Sorry but I don’t give a shit about green spaces when housing is so expensive. Drive 20 minutes west of Boston and there are hundreds of acres of green spaces. Also what is the city supposed to do shut down the airport and build a park there now.
blackdynomitesnewbag t1_j02l0hu wrote
The proximity of Logan is one of my favorite things about Boston
alohadave t1_j02nt91 wrote
Just do like Kansai airport and build an island out past Deer Island.
EventuallyUnrelated t1_j02o2hb wrote
You need to find more things to like then 😂
EventuallyUnrelated t1_j02oeiv wrote
You couldnt have actually read it asking this question, and you cant possible be dumb enough as to just suggest everyone drive west of boston... from East Boston????
rygo796 t1_j02oiei wrote
Even if you wanted to, there isn't anywhere in relatively close distance where you could realistically do it. Express Train to MHT or PVD might make them viable options.
It is a sad use of what would now be quite valuable real estate. Including homes under the flight path that are now less valuable.
hce692 t1_j02oipx wrote
Read the article tough guy. We should fix the environmental issues the state created for that community by putting Logan there.
Why do we study any history?? Because it will inform better decision making in the future. Not that difficult a concept
BUZZUKKA t1_j02pkpe wrote
Lol the article ended with the lady complaining about what east Boston might look like in the future. “Nobody in East Boston would be happy with that,” she said. “Not enough green space.” Idk id be happy with an increase in housing supply. Sure you don’t want to out west past 95 but there are parks and green spaces in so many of the suburbs of Boston.
EventuallyUnrelated t1_j02qtqg wrote
The suburbs that allow the least amount of housing? How does that help someone in East Boston? Geniuinely confused here not trying tp argue.
SkiingAway t1_j02r58q wrote
> Unlike most major airports, Logan remains located within the heart of a city neighborhood, which is still home to thousands of residents.
Except uh...many of them. They might be located further from downtown (or not), but many major airports are surrounded by heavily populated urban areas just like East Boston. Pretty sure if you go down the list of large hubs you'll wind up with more in that category than not. NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, SF/Oakland, etc.
Places like Denver where it's really out in the middle of nowhere are rare, and even having it out in the low-density burbs isn't that common.
Tall_olive t1_j02u54q wrote
No, you're trying to argue. There are parks and green spaces throughout Boston. It's not possible for everyone to have walking access to vast green spaces, not if you want to live in a city. East Boston has public transit just as the rest of Boston does, the green spaces Boston provides are accessible to Eastie residents.
BUZZUKKA t1_j02vhz9 wrote
Some of the suburbs of Boston have numerous multi-family neighborhoods (dorchester, Everett, Medford, Malden to name a few). These suburbs and others are the housing supply for boston. If someone built more housing in any of these suburbs or in east Boston it would help meet the insane demand for housing we are seeing in Boston. The Boston and greater boston area has 1000s of acres of already accessible greenery which is incredible considering the population of Boston. You can’t have the city life and also have every city have 100s of acres of parks.
ThePirateKing01 t1_j02wqyp wrote
Green spaces are important for the health and well-being of people who freaking live here. The pollution being put into the air by Logan is astounding
RailRoad_Candy t1_j02x01f wrote
So everyone wants green spaces, but also wants those green spaces to be bulldozed for housing. Putting an airport in a major city is bad because it lowered property values, causes noise pollution andthe land could be better used for more housing.
Thus it would have been better to build this thing out west of 128 or 495 where green space would have been bulldozed for the airport and the surrounding property values would have dropped. Got it.
Dude, you live in a city, an expensive city. One of the great things about greater Boston is that its so darn small. So its virtually nothing to go get your green area fix outside the city.
But yes, paradise lost. Its happened all over the country. Look at central and western mass, beautiful old homes literally feet from main roads, rivers and lakes too toxic to eat the fish from, great woods for hiking and hunting bulldozed to put up a Target plaza with a 110 Grill and whatnot. Yeah, it sucks.
As for the whole anti-government and rebellious aspect of the article, I'm sorry but if Rage Against the Machine was Millenial or GenZ the lyrics would be "F$## YOU YOU BETTER DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU!!" So that whole aspect of the story isnt needed.
Finally, the environmentalism aspect, when people stop buying goods from India, South East Asia (countries we've killed our manufacturing for and essentially exported slavery) I may start to believe that people give a crap about the environment. Until then, buying goods that have to cross the Pacific on a ship that burns 12 gallons of fuel for every foot it moves is a HUGE indicator that people dont actuallu care about the environment.
Its sad, yes its a bit of paradise lost, and its not stopping.
NameNumber7 t1_j02y4ri wrote
Agreed, I'm about halfway through. It is important to understand that we can try to not repeat past mistakes. I think people are equating this article with "poor people, woke mob complaining about economic instituion that brings billions to state" and not about trying to do better where possible.
It is also humanizing to recognize what challenges face people from now and the past.
winter_bluebird t1_j030844 wrote
I mean, you could do what Milan did. They have an in-town airport and they decided to build a new international airport in the middle of fucking nowhere. End result: twenty years and 9 BILLION EUROS later no one uses the hard to get to airport and they are expanding the in-town airport instead.
Proximity is key. There are things that can be improved, namely car transit to and from the airport and, potentially, a better MBTA connection than the silver line, but Logan is one of the most convenient major airports in the US.
SnooMaps7887 t1_j030a7j wrote
Why did you put rhetoric in parentheses?
FitzwilliamTDarcy t1_j031iml wrote
Yeah that’s a weird thing to say.
EventuallyUnrelated t1_j031xkh wrote
I wasnt talking to you, I was talking to the person who suggested people in East Boston drive to West of Boston (which is insane). And yeah we could absolutely have more green space in every community. This whole "not possible" is BS.
Tricky-Pea2794 t1_j032plk wrote
[deleted] t1_j032rdk wrote
[deleted]
winter_bluebird t1_j034rcy wrote
That's why I'm responding to the comment above mine? The comment that says " I'm not sure what could be done now though, other than build a new airport elsewhere".
EventuallyUnrelated t1_j035fyb wrote
Responding to wrong thread my b
BUZZUKKA t1_j0371zy wrote
There are green spaces throughout Boston
SkiingAway t1_j03859e wrote
Or more locally, Montreal tried this (Mirabel).
Failed so hard that it's no longer used for passenger service at all and half of it is now used for motorsports.
Realistically, it pretty much only works if you forcibly close the old airport (Stapleton/Denver), or if the old one is so limited that it really can't meet demand even if it stays in full operation (Midway/Chicago).
[deleted] t1_j039h3w wrote
BUZZUKKA t1_j03a37l wrote
Why is it insane to drive or take public transit to a green space? Idk where you are planning on making these green spaces. Last I checked most of the Boston/greater Boston area is developed.
2019hindsight t1_j03a3ms wrote
Hanscom airport is already owned by massport and is only like 6 miles from Boston.
nwsm t1_j03bffv wrote
Kansas City’s airport is in the middle of nowhere and it’s a fucking pain. I live in Eastie (closer to revere) and the convenience of Logan is awesome for me. But maybe others around me who don’t fly much would rather it gone which is fair.
Id_Solomon t1_j03c35u wrote
Would've been another mistake if they built a highway through Cambridge.
Thank goodness the residents from The Coast won that battle.
Fun Fact: If you don't know, you can actually go around the side of the Micro Center store and see the mural depiction of said battle.
BadRedditUsername t1_j03fot4 wrote
For how close it is, the transit connections aren’t very good. It’s a bit of a waste to deal with all the negative externalities of the close airport when the best way to get there is to drive.
BadRedditUsername t1_j03ghoq wrote
I’d imagine the value of Logan’s real estate + economic potential of Boston without height restrictions and noise pollution would more than cover the cost of extending the Red Line to Hanscom with an express track, and potentially a commuter rail ring route which stops there as well. Only problem being that Concord NIMBYs would never allow it.
ThePirateKing01 t1_j03hdg8 wrote
Awesome dude, by chance how many are in wealthy areas vs poorer areas and how does a park in Brookline diminish air pollution in East Boston?
CHARLIE_CANT_READ t1_j03japu wrote
As much as I wish it was more frequent and actually a train the silver line is pretty convenient. It being free and dropping off on the paid side of south station makes visiting here a breeze compared to some airports. Don't get me fucking started on LaGuardia.
Conan776 t1_j03ktos wrote
Why bother building an island? In 20 years when all the world's coastal and island airports are under water, it might all be sea planes anyway.
BUZZUKKA t1_j03ltmh wrote
Lol they are throughout the city…. Look at a map. Parks throughout the city impact the air quality throughout the city. The cities in and around Boston don’t operate within a bubble
BsFan t1_j03m3gc wrote
If you fly as much as I do, it is a huge perk.
EventuallyUnrelated t1_j03n6lp wrote
Im not saying its not convenient. I live in the West End and can literally leave my house 45 mins before a flight. But one of my favorite things about Boston? No
winter_bluebird t1_j03p7i1 wrote
But Hanscom is a Delta airport to Logan’s Bravo. You’d have to triple it in size at least, at LEAST!, and reengineer that entire section of route 2 and the 95 exits. And never mind the actual Air Force base and Bedford neighborhoods to the north.
It’s not as easy as all that. Bravo airports require a lot of infrastructure.
winter_bluebird t1_j03pcmu wrote
Surprise! Hanscom is definitely not in Concord.
BsFan t1_j03qudo wrote
Gotcha. Yeah I would say it is one thing I love about Boston. Not my favorite thing.
man2010 t1_j03rl7d wrote
If you're calling Dorchester a suburb of Boston you should probably just sit this one out
BadRedditUsername t1_j03sh6d wrote
Surprise! Parts of it definitely are, not to mention the approach paths. https://i.imgur.com/BY0MVsE.jpg
BUZZUKKA t1_j03sn8l wrote
Neighborhood 🙄
winter_bluebird t1_j03ugvl wrote
You’re right! I forgot we have a corner of a runway. I live in Concord directly under the one of the current approach path, yeah. My husband is a pilot out of Hanscom.
There is no way that a red line expansion to Hanscom (hah) would be blocked by Concord NIMBYs, since it wouldn’t touch Concord in any way. It’s Arlington, Lexington, and Bedford that you’d have to deal with first.
I would happily take the red line all the way from Concord, by the way.
And you’d have to knock down like four Bedford neighborhoods and the entire HAFB if you wanted to ever turn Hanscom into a Bravo airport.
robthad t1_j03v7j4 wrote
Last time I went to New Orleans I flew in on the last day the airport was open. Flew home out of the new one. Istanbul just built a GIANT new airpot. So, it can be done.
Will it in Boston, though? Of course not.
Master_Dogs t1_j03xqjb wrote
The Minute Man even gives you a really awesome rail ROW to use. It's a lovely bikeway now and I'd hate to temporarily lose access during construction, but there's some really good potential to setup an alternative bikeway via Mass Ave (add protected bike lanes through Arlington and Lexington) as well as redo the entire bikeway after you complete the Red Line construction with a wider path, lights and better bike access/street crossings.
blackdynomitesnewbag t1_j041af6 wrote
Fly a better airline?
Psirocking t1_j045zst wrote
Trying to turn that back to rail would be the hardest NIMBY battle in history. Rail trails aren’t really made to create bike paths, they’re made to ensure trains don’t come back.
Psirocking t1_j0468f8 wrote
New Orleans didn’t move any runways though. Hell, they didn’t even have any public transportation that needed to be moved (seriously needing to take an Uber to get downtown there is so annoying)
navymmw t1_j049fpz wrote
Hanscom is far to small to even be close to a replacement for Logan. More runways, longer runways, more ramp space, and better access would be needed. Basically at that point they’d need to just re do the whole thing
navymmw t1_j049j4g wrote
Far more problems then just NIMBYS. Hanscom is far to small as it is it
navymmw t1_j049tmj wrote
Yup, they’d basically have to tear it all down and start from scratch to get that area even close to being a class bravo airport
devAcc123 t1_j04fvk6 wrote
Leaving work an hour early on a Friday and catching a flight to NYC 1 hr before departure time is lovely. Can leave my door at 4 and be in the ground at like 6 in NYC. Love it.
Then it takes 90 minutes to get anywhere from LGA or JFK but besides the point
clubspadina t1_j04h7wm wrote
Lets all fly from Worcester?
KSF_WHSPhysics t1_j04hjm6 wrote
Theres the silver line, the blue line, the mbta ferry, park and ride, uber, taxi, water taxi. I get that theres no trains but ffs im not sure what else they can do to improve it.
Zashiony t1_j04jxcz wrote
Blue Line isn't really a direct connection, though. Having to take a shuttle to reach it makes it a much bigger pain.
​
Uber and taxi are also commonplace at every airport. Not like you can say that that's something that makes Logan better.
McFlyParadox t1_j04ki2d wrote
Straight into the harbor, I say! There is room, and it would mesh with the spirit of past major construction projects.
KSF_WHSPhysics t1_j04ktbm wrote
Every US airport. Plenty of countries/cities around the world where uber is banned. Never had trouble getting a taxi to be fair, but when theres no uber to compete with they get to bend you over the table
SHSFilmClub t1_j04r4r3 wrote
Heathrow, Atlanta, Tokyo Narita?
SHSFilmClub t1_j04rbmv wrote
NEU_Throwaway1 t1_j04ttia wrote
Hell, some of the lights on the Canarsie approach to JFK are located on buildings lol.
NEU_Throwaway1 t1_j04u74k wrote
If that convinces them to build a true high speed rail line to Worcester then go for it lol.
brufleth t1_j04ua7t wrote
This... Isn't true.
https://i.redd.it/dystgqo9miez.png
There have been all kinds of ways of showing it over the years, but Boston's situation is unusual.
Ruleseventysix t1_j04uj95 wrote
Let's make flying out of the area needlessly difficult is what you're saying, especially during winter. Or you're making more of a case for Tf Green.
brufleth t1_j04w164 wrote
Most of us have to go to that far away one and it sucks. I've been to Milan on business but never been to Milan.
brufleth t1_j04wmqn wrote
Proximity to the airport is part of what makes Boston valuable.
xx9e02 t1_j04wqdb wrote
This is also a pretty inaccurate way of looking at it. Sure it may be the shortest distance from the geographical center of the city, but that doesn't mean all of these other cities neighborhoods aren't densely populated with sprawl. Take San Diego for example, they cannot expand that airport because the highrise sprawl basically goes right up next to it. Same with HNL and SJC. The list goes on... there are actually very few on that list that if you actually go in and look at their situations individually you'll find they are removed from dense areas (SMF, BWI, AUS, etc.)
brufleth t1_j04xikj wrote
Then find a different list with different metrics. There was another one I saw recently about the transit times and again Boston is near the shortest.
I travel quite a bit and Logan is close, quick, and easy to Boston. Most places are not at all.
xx9e02 t1_j04yg8l wrote
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm fully on the side of close convenient access to an airport. I'm done trying to drive 45 min - 1.5 hr just to make it to the airport (ATL, SFO).
I think the factor in play here is that there is a transit system connecting the airport to downtown in a reasonable manner, where as many other places do not have that flexibility of car vs. transit vs. uber/taxi, at least from my personal observations around the country.
brufleth t1_j04zmry wrote
Logan is close and easy to access. On top of that it's actually a good airport. Huge perk if you fly regularly.
SkiingAway t1_j05202p wrote
No, you're misunderstanding the point.
Your graph is how far they are from the downtown of the largest urban center in their region. Not the population density of the area where they are.
You're entirely correct - most airports are not as close to the largest city center of the metro area as Boston's.
However, this doesn't mean that they aren't located in a dense urban area regardless.
For example, your graph says Newark Airport (EWR) is >10 miles from the city center of NYC. Sure, this is true.
However, it's located right next to two of the largest cities in NJ, Newark and Elizabeth, with the runways coming within 2 miles of both of their city centers, and high population densities to match.
Broadly, this is very similar to the environment of East Boston and the level of impact on the population, and certainly as much "within the heart of a city neighborhood" in terms of location as Logan is.
The same is true of NYC's other airports and my other examples.
Ordie100 t1_j053c7i wrote
I live in Eastie, about a 10 minute walk from Logan, sure the noise is ever present but as a frequent flyer being able to literally walk to the airport is a real selling point
SkiingAway t1_j054ca6 wrote
It's not that zero airports are located out in the middle of nowhere, it's that the premise that it's the norm for airports to be out there is misleading at best.
I will admit that I had more of the North American context in mind, as other countries do land-use and planning in very different ways.
> Tokyo Narita?
Haneda does double the volume and is both very close to Tokyo's "center" and in an extremely urban setting.
SHSFilmClub t1_j054iov wrote
Huh for the longest time I thought Haneda was domestic only
The_Moustache t1_j05hm4o wrote
I work for a major airline and theres a 0% chance I would ever move from TF Green to Boston.
Its just the better choice in every way other than the fact that its a little pricier and there are slightly less connections
A320neo t1_j05hwp1 wrote
Both NRT and HND have international flights, but Narita has more of them. JAL7/8 is BOS-NRT.
Gfkr2630 t1_j06me5e wrote
Worcester airport is on the wrong side of the city and difficult to reach. Had it been built on the east side it would be much more user friendly.
Gfkr2630 t1_j06mo9g wrote
Many years ago there was talk of a big new airport around Uxbridge.
scarylarry2150 t1_j06re9w wrote
> Kansas City’s airport is in the middle of nowhere and it’s a fucking pain.
I fly to KC about once a year to visit extended family and this is easily my least favorite part. Gotta either budget an extra $100+ for ubers to & from the airport, or convince someone to make a 60-90 minute round-trip to come pick me up and then again to drop me off. Visited Denver this past summer and it was a similar situation.
Master_Dogs t1_j06rjg2 wrote
> Trying to turn that back to rail would be the hardest NIMBY battle in history.
Yeah I didn't say it would be easy, and that's why I mentioned having an alternative bikeway via Mass Ave bike lanes. Some of which already exist but aren't protected.
> Rail trails aren’t really made to create bike paths, they’re made to ensure trains don’t come back.
No. They're meant to do a number of things:
- better utilize an underutilized public space. no different from putting a park on a town/city owned parking lot that isn't used fully.
- create cycling routes to provide an alternative commute/travel option. this can actually improve traffic in some cases (see this bloomberg article with examples of bike lanes in NYC)
- land bank the space so it can be reactivated a rail corridor later on. specifically in the case of the Minute Man the MBTA still owns the land and leases it to the towns which it passes through. the majority of rail trails I'm aware of do something similar, where the State leases the land on a long term basis (99 years or whatever) but adds a clause that they'll take it back if needed. the bike to the sea trail has this kind of setup as well.
In this case, with the MBTA owning the land it's just a matter of the State government having some balls and providing residents with alternative routes and improvements to please them. Ultimately if the State wants to, they can just bulldoze the path and throw down some rails. See this recent thread on how they did that with Logan, or how they almost did that with the Inner Belt and definitely did so with the Pike and 93.
ConfusedYeti17 t1_j06uv8i wrote
Can we talk about how assembly row is ruining Malden/Medford travel
empire299 t1_j06xor0 wrote
I was thinking about this after finishing white lotus season 2 last night - how would you (safely) walk into Logan? Isn’t it all highways and everything else fenced off? Or are there dedicated pedestrian paths to/from Logan I’ve never seen (since I don’t walk there :))
Ordie100 t1_j06z1fz wrote
It's hard to find, no real signage or anything, but there's a link to the harborwalk by Porzio Park, from there sidewalks take you to Terminal A (from there you can keep going on the sidewalk or get on a shuttle bus to the right terminal). You can even stop off at the very well hidden 9/11 Memorial on your way.
There's also a path that goes from the Blue Line Airport stop to Terminal E, so if you lived on that side of Eastie you can walk over the tracks at airport station and then walk in that way.
The whole place isn't particularly well designed for pedestrians but I was surprised the first time I did it at the completeness of the sidewalks and pedestrian signals at traffic lights
nwsm t1_j0723hr wrote
There are roads with sidewalks around the airport, one of which leads to the bus terminal. Not sure exactly the route but it’s possible.
OgTyber t1_j0a52lp wrote
This was a great article. I'm 25 and grew up in eastie. I'm considered obese, and had asthma when I was younger. Hopefully I won't die from cancer before I live my life. It's has been on my mind recently, because planes have been flying over me dumping their fuel all over my community.
kevalry t1_j01znty wrote
So… we should eliminate Logan Airport and move it elsewhere??