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hamsterfolly t1_jd6f8qz wrote

From the article:

The Justice Department has convinced a federal judge that former President Donald Trump used one of his defense attorneys in furtherance of a crime or fraud related to the existence of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

The finding – part of a major ruling Friday from Judge Beryl Howell of the DC District Court – makes clear for the first time that the Justice Department is arguing it has evidence that Trump may have committed a crime. And Howell ruled that prosecutors met the burden to overcome Trump’s right to shield discussions with his lawyers normally protected under attorney-client privilege.

The evidence would likely be significant in the obstruction probe being pursued by special counsel Jack Smith’s team. It also underscores how critical the testimony of Trump’s defense lawyers would be in the federal grand jury investigation.

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Lord_Sports t1_jd6finb wrote

Dude is guilty as hell. Lock him up already so we can continue without his Cult behaviors. He’s a Trader of the worst kind and if this was anyone else they would be in jail 10 times over already. Dam there’s enough proof to lock him up for good and I bet he won’t do a single day in jail. Sad really but I’m done hearing about this loser and his cult followers.

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Hot-Bint t1_jd6if58 wrote

Is Corcoran the lawyer or Christina Bobb?

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Berova t1_jd6iwe4 wrote

That noose sure getting tighter and tighter with each passing week.

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Projectrage t1_jd6liv4 wrote

Replying to hamsterfolly (#2,299,991)

I believe he will skate, but he’s screwed in Georgia state.

Please know we don’t want to martyr him, FYI Hitler went to prison and rose to power.

History doesn’t repeat, but rhymes pretty fucken well.

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Bernies_left_mitten t1_jd6q66x wrote

Replying to Hot-Bint (#2,300,691)

No worries! Other articles/sources indicate that the filing specifically states that Trump deliberately deceived the lawyers. Not quite sure if that means Corcoran is out of the hot seat or not, though.

Will be very interested to see what evidence they have to get this ruling, and what further evidence it yields. And/or lawyer's future testimonies.

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Hot-Bint t1_jd6qrnw wrote

Replying to Bernies_left_mitten (#2,300,754)

Yes (new evidence for ruling)! Why I said Christina Bobb as well, didn’t she sign off on the affidavit that all boxes had been accounted for in a search she didn’t oversee to the DOJ? What happened with that

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babysinblackandImblu t1_jd7fdoy wrote

This is obstruction and it’s a 20 year charge. This is extremely relevant. It takes away the attorney client privilege.

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Jim_from_GA t1_jd7ffp4 wrote

Replying to Berova (#2,300,252)

Pretty soon it is going to get so tight it will pass straight through his neck and he can walk away scot free.

They called Reagan the Teflon Man, but he had nothing on Trump. A pure rooky by comparison.

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bejammin075 t1_jd7hhng wrote

Replying to Lord_Sports (#2,300,010)

My F5 finger will get a workout this week for sure. I've kept my expectations for justice very low, especially since Mueller wimped out. But perhaps, finally, this time, the walls are closing in on this guy. Rational me says to still keep expectations low but emotional me can't help but be excited there might finally be some justice.

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N8CCRG t1_jd7ksdb wrote

The original ABC article has more details.

>Prosecutors in the special counsel's office have presented compelling preliminary evidence that former President Donald Trump knowingly and deliberately misled his own attorneys about his retention of classified materials after leaving office, a former top federal judge wrote Friday in a sealed filing, according to sources who described its contents to ABC News.

>U.S. Judge Beryl Howell, who on Friday stepped down as the D.C. district court's chief judge, wrote last week that prosecutors in special counsel Jack Smith's office had made a "prima facie showing that the former president had committed criminal violations," according to the sources, and that attorney-client privileges invoked by two of his lawyers could therefore be pierced.

>In her sealed filing, Howell ordered that Evan Corcoran, an attorney for Trump, should comply with a grand jury subpoena for testimony on six separate lines of inquiry over which he had previously asserted attorney-client privilege.

>Sources added that Howell also ordered Corcoran to hand over a number of records tied to what Howell described as Trump's alleged "criminal scheme," echoing prosecutors. Those records include handwritten notes, invoices, and transcriptions of personal audio recordings.

I have a feeling people are going to be unearthing revelations about Trump's corruption and crimes for decades after he's gone.

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Darkframemaster43 t1_jd7ohok wrote

Replying to N8CCRG (#2,302,640)

The ABC article really is much better than the CNN one. It has actual quotes from the sealed order and goes into more details about the actual process, beyond what you're highlighting. The only thing that seems to really be missing from both is what the actual evidence is, as opposed to a description, which is bizarre if you're going to go so far as to make direct quotes of the order.

My guess on the evidence based on what's been in the news is a narrative that Trump was always aware that he had classified information since I believe the SC heard testimony that Trump oversaw the packing process of his documents. That or someone who did pack the documents said they knew they packed classified documents and told Trump as such.

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Tinker107 t1_jd7rwra wrote

A crooked orange douchebag AND a crooked lawyer?

We’re gonna need a MUCH bigger corn popper.

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black_flag_4ever t1_jd7uogx wrote

The guy has gone unpunished for so long he thought he could do anything.

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DasKleineFerkell t1_jd7ut8h wrote

Somebody, ease, finally have the balls to file charges on any of the dozens of crimes that fucking idiot has committed

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billpalto t1_jd7xail wrote

The evidence in this case is overwhelming. If any one of us had even one Top Secret/SCI document, we'd be in jail already.

Trump had dozens of them. When asked to give them back, he said they were his. When subpoena'ed, he gave some back and tried to hide the rest. He and his lawyers lied and claimed they gave them all back.

Then the FBI raided and found a bunch more. And video shows Trump was moving them around to try to hide them, even after that.

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Speedly t1_jd7xr0b wrote

Did the Justice Department rep just hand the judge a piece of paper that said, "of course he did?"

I feel like "convinces" is too strong a word for this. It's like telling someone that fire is hot, and then claiming that you "convinced" them of it.

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Sweatytubesock t1_jd81747 wrote

Fraud and crime is like breathing to DJT. Literally his life blood.

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Colonel_Angus_ t1_jd841ur wrote

At this point I'm thinking DJTb will be the first President presiding from a prison cell

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billpalto t1_jd84yrc wrote

We have to assume that Trump shared the information with the Russians. We aren't going to hear about how much damage that does to national security though, because they won't want to publicize what secrets were breached.

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Yusbhere t1_jd85fvv wrote

That’s a great step forward, but at this pace this entire trump trash experience will be swept under the rug where American justice is for sale to all that can afford it. I’m hopeful a take down of this mobster trump will be in short order now, much of the public is losing confidence in our justice system and win at any cost even if you have to lie type attorneys.

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NerdyV1xen t1_jd86fu6 wrote

This shit is ridiculous. Just arrest him already, how much more evidence do they need???

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1d0m1n4t3 t1_jd88zhz wrote

Replying to Projectrage (#2,300,443)

My two cents that isn't even worth that much. He will get inedited but it will take years to wrap up. In the mean time the GOP will shelf him for 2024, then Trump will run independently and split the Republican's vote between him and the GOPs candidate, thus allowing the Dems to put in who ever they want.

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DrummerGuy06 t1_jd89cs0 wrote

Replying to bejammin075 (#2,302,360)

Mueller was essentially told in the beginning he wasn't allowed to find Trump "guilty," so all he could say is "he's definitely NOT innocent; quite the opposite."

He won't ever see jail time because we're too feckless and cowardly to actually put a treasonous former President in jail for actually inciting an insurrection. They'll at-most sink his Presidential campaign and basically make him sign something that says he'll never run for office again if he wants to remain solvent.

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SkullLeader t1_jd89iso wrote

Replying to Speedly (#2,303,668)

Call it what you will, but prosecutors apparently gave the judge sufficient evidence to make him rule that the crime-fraud exception to attorney/client privilege should apply in this instance. That normally requires something more than just the prosecutor's say-so, and most judges (who are themselves attorneys, after all) pretty much consider the privilege to be close to sacrosanct - so setting it aside is not something they normally take lightly.

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SkullLeader t1_jd8bzqx wrote

We're talking about an obese, out of shape 76-year old man who can barely walk down a ramp unassisted and who's diet consists mainly of diet coke and McDonalds. At this rate, the guy could easily pass away before the first trial is even scheduled. Prosecutors seem content to take their sweet, sweet time. If this guy dies before seeing the inside of a jail cell, it will be a massive catastrophe that will demonstrate that someone like him can escape accountability for all his crimes, and will embolden all the would-be Trump 2.0's that are out there waiting in the wings.

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nola_throwaway53826 t1_jd8i6p4 wrote

Replying to Projectrage (#2,300,443)

He may not be screwed in Georgia. The state is working on a law, Georgia House Bill 231, to remove prosecutors and district attorneys from their posts.

Copied from CNN: House Bill 231 would create the "Prosecuting Attorneys Oversight Commission, which shall have the power to discipline, remove, and cause involuntary retirement of appointed or elected district attorneys or solicitors-general."

So Trump may skate charges in Georgia once this becomes law and they remove the prosecutor.

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Dvusmnd t1_jd8mf78 wrote

Replying to Hot-Bint (#2,300,220)

Bobb is on the hook for this too. She signed the affidavit stating there was no TS/SCI docs at MAL, but weeks later, Bickety-Bam if there weren’t in fact TS/SCI docs at MAL to the surprise of no one.

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dogsent t1_jd8mfti wrote

Replying to hamsterfolly (#2,299,991)

Trump abused Michael Cohen and we see how that turned out, so far. If Trump’s lawyers turn on him in the documents case that could be the testimony that convicts Trump on those charges.

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justforthearticles20 t1_jd8rbzw wrote

All of Trump's attorneys are over their heads in Crime/Fraud and have been since Fred was in charge. That includes every lawyer that worked for him when he was President*.

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willit1016 t1_jd8s4of wrote

maybe because they are all criminals everyone.

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jeremyjack3333 t1_jd96ya7 wrote

Replying to Picture-unrelated (#2,301,572)

Just watch AP for the stories as they come out, they usually have an overarching rundown and they also don't editorialize much if at all.

AP is non-profit, consistently ranks the best in media bias rankings year after year, and has been around for almost 200 years.

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RollerDude347 t1_jd99etx wrote

Replying to blackbeautybyseven (#2,304,399)

Hitler wasn't really that smart. He had a few smart people around him but in the end he mostly chose crazy, yes-men to listen to. I mean think about his strategy going into the war. It was basically just... hit them really fast before they can react. "They" being most of the other world powers all at once. He started losing as soon as the opposition forces got their feet under themselves.

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TirayShell t1_jd9i18x wrote

I get the feeling that once one indictment / arraignment goes down, there will be a lot to follow especially once folks understand that the fascist militia is not going to burn cities down to rescue this guy.

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Chadmartigan t1_jd9p7g4 wrote

Replying to Burnbrook (#2,302,059)

Yeah, for that reason I'm doubtful that Trump will actually see the inside of a prison cell. Even a straightforward case like the Stormy Daniels thing could be stretched out to two years pretty easily. Trump is 76 (77 in a few months), and nature abhors 300-pound septuagenarians.

That said, it's enough for me that he spends the rest of his life dodging process servers and sitting in courtrooms/lawyers' offices, burning his supporters' money all the while. At this point, any sentence would be a pittance compared to the harm he has caused. So at this point, I just want the process to be as personally miserable as possible while causing the maximum amount of damage to his party and his base.

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BadMedAdvice t1_jda1luv wrote

Replying to 1d0m1n4t3 (#2,304,554)

Counting on the republicans to screw themselves is how trump got in office in the first place. They will absolutely rally around whoever wins the primary. They do not care about choosing the best candidate, or any other silly concepts like competence. Only about doing whatever it takes to hurt you.

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BadMedAdvice t1_jda2ljc wrote

Replying to SkullLeader (#2,304,836)

And the 2.0s will be right to think so. That he's gone so long without consequences is evidence that the system is broken. That there's so many that still support trump shows that it may not be possible or worth fixing.

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