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Leolandleo t1_jamaynd wrote

passing is how you end up with your car in the bank. it requires quick acceleration & directional changes followed by a possible need to slowdown abruptly. ALL of these are no nos driving in snow.

in short Vermonters do the line because they know how to drive in Vermont.

191

anusty t1_jamo85v wrote

Pass everyone carefully and w/o panic; just need to know your car, tires and type of snow. Everything needs to be done in slow mo in the snow, but not how fast you go and always know your exit strategy. Been doing in rear, front, AWD and 4WD my whole life.

4

Leolandleo t1_jampt1k wrote

Good for you brave adventurer, thanks for sharing your superior wisdom with us mere mortal safe line drivers.

5

GaleTheThird t1_jamf3qk wrote

>it requires quick acceleration & directional changes followed by a possible need to slowdown abruptly.

Looks like this is on the highway, where that isn't the case as much

−27

Leolandleo t1_jamfbgn wrote

Ok you go ahead and pass, there is never been a snow accident on a highway.

20

GaleTheThird t1_jamh18d wrote

When did I say there had never been a snow accident on the highway? I'm just pointing out it's possible to ease into the other lane and slowly cruise past people on the highway, and there's not going to be the need to slam on the brakes and hop back into the lane for your direction.

−16

dinkboy30 t1_jamjzjx wrote

You drive like you want. I would prefer traveling in the safer clear lane as opposed to the unplowed lane. I’m in no hurry. The risk vs reward isn’t worth it for me. The folks that trailblaze those lanes just make it more dangerous for the one’s driving safely. Enjoy the 5-10 minutes you shave off your commute.

3

GaleTheThird t1_jammqso wrote

> You drive like you want. I would prefer traveling in the safer clear lane as opposed to the unplowed lane. I’m in no hurry.

Literally none of this is relevant to my point at all and the fact I can understand that passing on a highway doesn't "requires quick acceleration & directional changes followed by a possible need to slowdown abruptly" doesn't mean I'm going to pass when things look like the original picture.

−2

roborob11 t1_jamr849 wrote

Why not?

I mean, all you’ve done here is to make some kind of argument about passing in hazardous conditions. And you did it as a comment to a warning against doing just that. And now you say you wouldn’t pass if it looked like the picture.

HFS

2

GaleTheThird t1_jamvv44 wrote

> I mean, all you’ve done here is to make some kind of argument about passing in hazardous conditions.

It doesn't make sense to say it's hazardous because passing is an aggressive move when passing on a highway doesn't inherently require aggressive driving. Pass there would be dangerous even if you don't do anything of the things I quoted. It's hazardous because that lane is a slippery slush box, regardless of how you're driving in it.

I probably should've clarified more in my original post, but still.

0

watami66 t1_jamhvqw wrote

All of the cars in the bank along the highway every time icy and wintery road conditions are present disagree with you.

10

GaleTheThird t1_jamidou wrote

No, it actually doesn't? Being able to gently pass on the highway doesn't mean it's a great idea, or that you can't slide out even in the traveled lane.

−11

protein_factory t1_jam9cgj wrote

Cleared snow by the vehicle in front of you allowing for relatively more safe driving in their tire tracks. And if everyone is driving safely, there's no need to pass.

177

Ulimaatissaq OP t1_jam9g9s wrote

That makes sense!!

Thank you

Edit: tagging onto top comment, I’ve only seen this in Vermont! People in NY and Montana usually just pass.

Somethings aren’t as obvious to other people, no need to be mean!

We are all constantly learning :)

And I have learned this is a smarter and safer way to drive!

Thank you!

41

bigtimesauce t1_jamtkiw wrote

Vermonters are awful drivers, you’re gonna see a lot of this kind of thing.

−19

Maleficent_Rope_7844 t1_jao1g6h wrote

>you’re gonna see a lot of this kind of thing.

What, people not passing when road conditions don't permit it? That's literally the opposite of bad driving.

The passing lane shown in OP's photo looks dangerous to drive in at the 50+mph traffic is likely moving at.

7

bigtimesauce t1_jaooagx wrote

Everybody in this pic is in the passing lane

−2

Maleficent_Rope_7844 t1_jaorfa3 wrote

My mistake.

My point remains. Driving in that lane at 50+mph would be dangerous whether you're passing or being passed. Driving a safe speed in that lane (30-40?) would be dangerous if the passing lane was doing 50+.

1

deadliftothersup t1_japtfmc wrote

Yep, however that passing lane was carved, in real bad conditions you're almost certainly safe rolling in the groove rather than forging your own path. 18 wheelers are great for this because they can make new tracks easier than most cars and smaller trucks. Always enjoyed seeing one pass me and allowing me to follow the tracks in my beater car.

2

GrilledSpamSteaks t1_jam9v49 wrote

How can I easily hydroplane on snow and ice?

There, fixed it.

69

OhyouThiccc t1_jamac64 wrote

Just because it is snow and ice, doesn't mean you can't hydroplane. Maybe the word is wrong, but the concept is the same.

The tread of the tires are filling with snow and slush faster than the tread can displace it creating a plane in which you no longer have traction from that tire or tires. Thus, that is how it is easy.

2

Goldfishtml t1_jambwgo wrote

Better to do the line than the crash

47

edave22 t1_jam9mir wrote

Passing with ice and snow in the road is dangerous. The risk isn’t worth saving a few seconds on your commute. For most people anyway. Some people would risk their newborn to shave a few seconds off their drive.

46

lantonas t1_jarmavs wrote

You know what's more dangerous that passing?

Having a line of cars driving unreasonably slow.

−1

cpujockey t1_jambc7h wrote

> The risk isn’t worth saving a few seconds on your commute.

try telling that to some of the new vermonters that believe our roads are like Mass or NJ. They care not for anyones' safety. Essentially, you're in their way.

−4

[deleted] t1_jamat6e wrote

Is this really a question?

40

Ulimaatissaq OP t1_jamjjim wrote

Yes it is really, I’ve noticed this only in Vermont. NY people just pass, and when I lived in Montana people passed.

I’ve learned that this is a much smarter thing to do.

Thank you though :) sometimes things aren’t obvious to others who have lived other places!

11

RZRPRINCESS t1_jamlvgk wrote

It's a good legit question!

and it's awesome you want to learn why :)

4

4runnervtsh t1_jaz7x9y wrote

Moved here from out of state, and I thought it was weird too initially until I realized Vermont does much less pre-treatment of roads ahead of storms (if any), and there are generally less trucks out plowing than in more populis states. I never used to balk at driving in a snow storm, and I hate driving in snow storms here, and that's even after purchasing a 4x4 vehicle.

1

EccentricNarwhal t1_jamapgs wrote

We're in Vermont. Whats the rush?

In a hurry to crash?

33

trashtrucktoot t1_jamcpyf wrote

RE Rush, side rant :

I know you locals probably need to get to work but in late Septembers, on the back gravel roads, I'm going to drive at or below the limit. Adjust your commute time as needed.

1

EccentricNarwhal t1_jamd6qo wrote

Jokes on you. We already drive at or below the speed limit.

You must be new here...

17

SteveNashEm t1_jaminzz wrote

Just pull over when we come up behind you. We’ll give you a thank you wave. :)

4

throwaway9384929 t1_jaoautx wrote

Pull over then, these aren’t “back” roads, in a lot of towns these are our main roads, just because they are gravel doesn’t mean it’s for flatlanders to gawk at leaves

0

truckingon t1_jambabr wrote

I'm not in a hurry, especially with conditions like that. If you can't let go of the frustration of being stuck behind traffic that's moving slower than you'd like, how can you deal with the real frustrations in life?

33

powsandwich t1_jamknsh wrote

You presume most people can deal with real frustrations in life?

5

realmadrid111 t1_jamg0jq wrote

Seriously, often the lanes are NOT at all equally safe. You feel like everyone is going too slowly and you want to pass, but that left lane is much more snowy/slushy than the right. Suddenly you're hanging out there needing to speed up quite a bit and pass everyone, but realize that it doesn't feel as safe as it would in the right lane. Pair that with a sweeping right turn and you're suddenly white knuckled, trying not to fly off into the median. Worth it to save a minute or two?

23

GaleTheThird t1_jamh5sx wrote

> You feel like everyone is going too slowly and you want to pass, but that left lane is much more snowy/slushy than the right

Driving to work the other day when it was snowing I saw multiple people hop into the left lane to pass, sit there for 1-3 seconds, then merge right back in where they were. It was funny to watch

10

Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_jandfox wrote

This deserves way more votes! Time and time again I see this they whip out and forget that now one side of their cars tires are on a snow patch and whoops there they go sideways. Or they have 2 tires on the rumble strip (Rt.2 I'm looking at you) break traction and endup in the guardrail or worse. I just toot the horn and continue on with the familiar friendly one finger wave:)

2

gmgvt t1_jaru4cv wrote

Yep. Interested to see OP cite New Yorkers as an example of people who prefer to pass. Maybe they should know better? 'Cause I learned why "doing the line" is the way to go back in my heedless early 20s, after doing a 180 off the Northway from the left lane and needing a tow out of 2 feet of snow in the ditch. Turns out snow can unexpectedly drift, even the day after a storm.

0

Ulimaatissaq OP t1_jaso5le wrote

Cite New Yorkers? Like an MLA Essay?

Jokes lol.

But my partner is from New York, and says this is something they’ve never seen before, and I’ve never seen it happen before coming from Montana.

So it was new to both of us! But we have learned it’s a safer way to drive. :)

1

VTPeWPeW247 t1_jamdole wrote

There’s a reason you regularly see SUVs with out of state plates in the ditches that line our roads. “Do as the locals do”, even if you don’t understand it.

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GaleTheThird t1_jamexu1 wrote

> “Do as the locals do”, even if you don’t understand it.

It's not like snowy roads are some phenomena unique to Vermont. Doubly so when the picture just looks like it's of a highway

−9

ratamadiddle t1_jamg49a wrote

Snowy roads aren’t a phenomenon unique to Vermont, but having the lowest auto insurance premiums is.

I wonder why that is. 😉

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GraniteGeekNH t1_jamiih9 wrote

Is that true - lowest premiums?

2

ratamadiddle t1_jamj02w wrote

A quick google search may steer you otherwise, but when looking at rates a little deeper, VT bounces between 1-3 in most cases.

Safer drivers, lower speeds, more of what you see in the pic above.

Certainly not a “Live free or die” mantra here.

4

random_vermonter t1_jampqd7 wrote

And yet, people bitch that we’re “too slow.” 🙄 Worth the lower premium to me!

0

[deleted] t1_jamig92 wrote

Tourists come to vermont generally from less snowy areas.

5

Formal_Coyote_5004 t1_jamtf4t wrote

Server in a tourist town here: can confirm. I have tables from Florida and other places with rental cars who are clearly freaked out about the road conditions. I give them my best advice, but i usually don’t have enough time to ask them specifics about their rental car. If I don’t have time for a step by step (I usually don’t) immediate advice for them in snowy conditions is DO NOT SLAM ON THE BRAKES! But yeah. Many people who come here aren’t used to the snow. I’m happy to give advice when I can because I don’t want anyone freaking out on the road.

1

GaleTheThird t1_jamiq1k wrote

Most of the out of staters driving in VT this time of year are going to be from other New England states or NY

−4

[deleted] t1_jamjyzx wrote

Yes, thank you for helping make my point.

2

GaleTheThird t1_jamm28e wrote

What? The bulk of NE/New York is completely comparable to VT when it comes to snow, if not worse

0

[deleted] t1_jamptb5 wrote

Most of the people who live up in the Adirondack’s are not driving to vermont to ski.

The vast majority of ski tourists come from MA, CT, NJ, downstate, etc.

1

Formal_Coyote_5004 t1_jamtj21 wrote

This really isn’t true. Read my comment above… there are many people from Southern states and overseas that come here too.

0

Goodunnn t1_jamdy0l wrote

Maybe the road conditions? Driving is a team sport

16

RandolphCarter15 t1_jamhw1h wrote

Did you take a picture during a snowstorm of people driving slowly wondering why they're not driving faster?

9

MontyoftheFuture t1_jamadcb wrote

I stay exclusively in the snowy lane. It’s much more interesting and easier to pass with fewer cars.

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WoodyMD t1_jamfsa0 wrote

My subaru says otherwise. Stay Sideways 🤙

5

wampastompa09 t1_jamjqd4 wrote

Well...I've been here all my life...and I have to have a lot of trust in whatever I'm driving to pass, and I have to feel the road. That said, it also takes serious weather for me to feel unsafe behind the wheel. There is also a difference between feeling unsafe, and doing something that puts other people at risk, too.

I grew up with people in my immediate orbit referring to the road as being "Greasy" or not. Because sometimes the roads feel that way. The car doesn't do what you want it to, regardless of how good your tires are, or how good of a driver you are, and your job is to keep it under control.

It doesn't matter if you have studs or not, if physics is against you. Studs work best when they can bite the pavement, if the only thing under your tire is snow+ice, take it slow if you have to be out. Studs help you go, they don't necessarily help you stop.

All that said....I pass sometimes. I also reserve the right to attempt a pass, and nope back into the more-travelled lane. Especially if my wife and kid are in the car.

Precious cargo changes how everyone drives (unless they are negligent). When I was driving my '94 Chevy as a college kid, I certainly drove that car a lot differently (and more recklessly...passing constantly on the highway, blowing donuts in parking lots, etc.) than how I drive now with my only car, with my only wife, and only child in it.

The stakes get higher when you realize what you have to lose. It is unlikely (unless in an emergency) that whatever you're trying to get to is so important that you must get there faster. You should have planned better if you're running late.

5

RoyalIndependence500 t1_jamz1y3 wrote

I’ve got studded tires, 180 lbs of sand in the truck bed and a 4x4 Tacoma and you will definitely see me driving slow on the roads. When my daughter was 16 she hydroplaned on a road, and hit and killed a new mother with a 4 month old baby in the car. She wasn’t driving over the speed limit, but she was driving faster than conditions allow. Let that sink in. Your 16 year old daughter killed a new mother. Now slow the fuck down people. And hug your kids.

6

Wesley__Willis t1_jaml2l5 wrote

When you do The Line, you’re overwhelmingly likely to get where you want to go. When you reject The Line you probably won’t (and then we have to rescue you). Don’t make driving in snow harder than it needs to be.

5

PM_Georgia_Okeefe t1_jamik8t wrote

Shitty weather conditions is not when you decide to pass.

3

wholeWheatButterfly t1_jamtvs3 wrote

In ideal conditions, it's really only safe to pass like 1-3 cars at a time, so once a line longer than that forms, the people in the back really can't safely pass.

But also part of driving in VT is keeping mental track of conditions that day and the few days before. If it's been below freezing over the past couple days, or rained and now it's below freezing, I'm always going to drive very carefully. There are many fatal crashes here every year, sometimes within a mile or so from where you live.

Once when I was a teen, a semi killed a car full of college tourists just minutes after I drove by the same spot. I've hit black ice before and thankfully it was a small patch and I was fine but it's scary!

It can be frustrating, especially if someone is driving more than 5 below the speed limit and conditions are ok to at least go the speed limit. But I have no doubt that slow drivers like this end up saving dozens of lives every year.

3

0fficerGeorgeGreen t1_jamj9f5 wrote

In conditions like this, you don't pass. But my problem is many VTers don't pass even in the summer and view 2-3 mph under the speed limit as the maximum they can afford until their car explodes.

2

lantonas t1_jarn2to wrote

I went to Rutland last month and both there and back on Route 4 through Killington I was following a car doing 40mph down the mountain riding their brakes the entire time. The roads were dry.

You do you I guess.

0

0fficerGeorgeGreen t1_jarpo93 wrote

I mean, your example is going down a mountain road. Obviously you want to be cautious in that scenario. That's a little different than traveling on a normal route and driving 40 in a 50 for no other reason than you forgot where the gas pedal was.

1

lantonas t1_jarq2as wrote

Riding your brakes down a "mountain" road (let's be honest, it's a 4.5% grade east and 3.5% grade west) to go 20% under the speed limit while the roads are completely clear and dry is reasonable?

1

0fficerGeorgeGreen t1_jartn7t wrote

I was never trying to talk about mountain roads. I'm only talking about VTers unwillingness to pass and how slow they drive. You're the one who brought up a person riding their brakes on a mountain road.

Are you trying to get in an argument or something? Every response you've given has been slightly off topic from my comment before and slightly confrontational. I hope you're having a good day.

1

Commercial_Case_7475 t1_jamkwmf wrote

Because we haven't been traumatized by superhuman-sized traffic jams. Out of staters feel like they need to pass because they're used to dealing with tons of traffic and long waits. We know it won't be long until we get to the next turn, so no need to risk our lives for a couple extra minutes.

2

anusty t1_jamntng wrote

That is a great question. Born in CT and raised in VT; slowest car rules VT roads with long lines of snaking traffic behind; weather only compounds it.

2

GR8fulmichgang t1_jamq2jm wrote

Who wants to be the douche that caused a multi car accident! Lol

2

fas51300 t1_jamrsz0 wrote

The slush in between lanes is scary

2

Tmatson t1_jamgj2e wrote

Only Flatlanders pass in snow

1

VegetableBeneficial t1_jamj6gs wrote

Have you ever tried passing on that? It’s a quick way to end up in a ditch

1

jtllpfm t1_jamjngl wrote

Someone else’s hurry has no impact on my desire to avoid smashing my car.

1

Legitimate-Art2634 t1_jamr8wu wrote

The answer here is because they drive worst than rhode islanders.

1

PrestigiousBrush4388 t1_jamtqe0 wrote

The best thing to do is pull over when you see a line of cars behind you. Drive appropriately for your experience, your car, and the conditions, but pull off into a gas station or onto a side street to let the others pass.

1

Ulimaatissaq OP t1_jamtz8y wrote

This is the highway :)

1

PrestigiousBrush4388 t1_jamujl1 wrote

I can always find a place to pull over. I mean, if you had flashing blue lights behind you, wouldn’t you find a way? You can also put on your hazards and just tuck off to the side.

0

Briko03 t1_jan367h wrote

I wish excessively slow drivers would move out of the way on occasion though. It’s tough when you are stuck behind an extremely slow person and your only option is to wait.

1

Cap1691 t1_jan3o2c wrote

Just a note specific to today; it was as much ice as it was snow. It also appears to have come as a complete surprise to all Upper Valley road crew as the roads were primarily unplowed and untreated.

1

Agitated-Box-6640 t1_jan8fwu wrote

Yet Vermont has almost double the highway deaths (per capita) than New York. So much arrogance and lack of knowledge in this post.

1

HardTacoKit t1_janb0kr wrote

Not when adjusted for miles driven

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state

2

Agitated-Box-6640 t1_janbwuf wrote

Maybe this will help you…

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−1

HardTacoKit t1_jaoy3dq wrote

You have been a redditor for a year and have negative comment karma. Now I know why.

I hope you aren’t this much of a piece of shit in real life, but you probably are.

2

Traditional_Lab_5468 t1_janewn8 wrote

The passing lane has much more snow accumulated on it. I'd rather drive safely than drive fast, so I stay in the cleared tracks of the vehicles in front of me.

1

RMTWHODAT t1_janu2i3 wrote

Don't be riding up on the bumper ahead of you though. Dang.

1

Left-Link5070 t1_jao68zz wrote

Because we are not New York. That’s why.

1

The_Observer_Effect t1_jao9eln wrote

Because less of them are impatient, aggressive people than folks who come from less pleasant parts of the United States.

1

PBJIsGood1 t1_jaonbmk wrote

This snow is heavy with slush. It’s very easy to spin your tires in it. 4 wheel drive / snow tires or not.

1

Velveteenrocket t1_jap6fj7 wrote

Because those commercials showing cars bounding through 4 feet of snow is bullcrap

1

Smeedge_Kilgannon t1_japv9j6 wrote

Why is it always out of state plates off the road in the median?

1

aprilmoonflower t1_jarziib wrote

You mean the line where they tailgate you? (I have never seen this as much in other states as Vermont)

1

Ulimaatissaq OP t1_jam8lxo wrote

I am the passenger, and we are driving for the conditions if you mention speed.

−1

wut_the_phuck t1_jam9nc2 wrote

If you were to try and pass someone you will most likely slide off the road. The mere fact of turning to get in another lane will cause your tires to slide.

If you stay in the path of tire marks you are less likely to hydroplane.

21

lantonas t1_jarnjfv wrote

People that think they are going to slide off the road every time they change lanes so they never change lanes are the reason that people never change lanes.

1

fhadley t1_jamdoqy wrote

It's so you know not to drive at all when it's snowing out. Go nowhere, stay inside. Outdoors is too dangerous

−1

Greta-COVID-19 t1_janvt7w wrote

Because you outta staters don’t know that it’s the rule here that you must pull over if you have 5 cars behind you.

When it’s only in-state drivers, this does not happen. If you are clogging up the flow of traffic GTF out of the way, please.

−1

Ulimaatissaq OP t1_janxp5j wrote

I’m not pulling over into more slush, and going off the side of the road.

This is the highway, already going 35-40 and they can go around.

We were in the slow lane.

Edit: that would be even more dangerous in this situation, because everyone would have to move over into MORE slush to get around you.

0

skook1986 t1_jao95di wrote

Why do aggressive Flatlander Chads from out of state come here and cause the majority of accidents in the winter time because they have no fucking clue how to drive in the snow?

−1

Ulimaatissaq OP t1_jaoe9l7 wrote

I joined The Line, but I do understand where you’re coming from.

1

random_vermonter t1_jampg46 wrote

Why do people make threads that trash Vermonters?

−2