Submitted by Lahampsink t3_yhbsaz in worldnews
Comments
autotldr t1_iucx5pp wrote
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 92%. (I'm a bot)
> "The Americans are the only country that Israel is listening to," Ukrainian Ambassador to Israel Yevgen Korniychuck said in a phone call with The Hill from Tel Aviv.
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has sought to further convince Israel by raising the possibility that Russia could help Iran with its nuclear program.
> Korniychuck said the enforcement of sanctions on Russia by Israel is the second most important issue for him, behind acquiring military assistance from Israel.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Israel^#1 Russia^#2 Iran^#3 Israeli^#4 sanctions^#5
dr4kun t1_iucxbla wrote
What do you mean?
Sensitive-Pirate-461 t1_iucxspx wrote
Iran is testing it's weapons in Ukraine to see how effective they will be when Iran attacks Israel.
HighpriestIalu t1_iud0exy wrote
Israel has stated publicly they weren't getting involved up until Iran did, and even then it was lukewarm support at best
shush_neo t1_iud17pe wrote
Israel is in a tough spot here. If they support Ukraine then it's really easy for Russia to just hand Iran nukes. It wouldn't be the first time Russia supported Israel's enemies. They clearly have some sort of deal in place since Russia entered Syria.
Rampant_Moderator t1_iud6bwp wrote
Not even "should" but probably "will" IMO, this is a big open way for destroying all nuclear labs installations, drones factories, etc. Israel is pushing for it since years. On the top of that there's barely a revolt growing inthere. Chance it happen are big.
The one thing i rly hope is that people of Iran to not suffer from these actions.
I'm saying this because i remember Iraq war 2 in 2003 where electrical installations have beed destroyed leading the death of -alot- of civilians and children (water purification systems shutdown, cholera...).
Spudtron98 t1_iud6wxe wrote
Not particularly so, given that like 90% of those damn drones are being shot down by the outdated and depleted ex-Soviet AA hardware the Ukrainians are stuck with. Israel's air defence net is incredibly stringent, and their ability to mount counterstrikes would quickly silence the launchers.
Realeron t1_iud7knm wrote
It is selfish from zelenski to pressure for more robust commitment while ignoring the many irons Israel has on the fire, namely Iran's use of Syria as conduit of heavy weapons to hizballah in Lebanon, which it could not safely seek and destroy without coordination with Russia.
frosthowler t1_iudahsw wrote
Israel has sent a lot of aid and even opened a field hospital in Ukraine. They have given Russia nothing. The idea that it is neutral is ridiculous.
[deleted] t1_iudex6y wrote
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pepelepew111111 t1_iudhl3g wrote
The Israelis are already helping covertly. No matter what Zelensky says, the benefits of Israel getting actively and openly involved in a war far away from their own borders are far outweighed by the consequences. It would be a geopolitical nightmare at best. Worst case it could kick off more war in the Middle East between Israel and Russia, or Israel and Hezbollah, or Israel and Iran, or Israel and other Iranian proxies. Or even worse, between proxies and other proxies.
Never mind the economic fallout of more oil price instability in the face of a looming global recession. We need more war in the Middle East like we need more COVID.
bhuddistchipmonk t1_iudk4e9 wrote
Most of the Russians in Israel hate Russia. They fled to Israel because of persecution. Not to mention that a lot of immigrants in Israel are actually from Ukraine.
Israel has already chosen a side - they’ve been sending huge amounts of humanitarian aid to Ukraine, set up field hospitals, share intelligence, sent drone detection systems (through intermediaries in Poland).
The Palestinians on the other hand have openly chosen to side against the Ukrainians and have been visiting/paying homage to Putin.
logosfabula t1_iudk4si wrote
Hasn’t Isreal already stated they will send armaments to Ukraine?
bitcoins t1_iudmaly wrote
Also Ukraine has an abysmal record of voting against Israel in the UN. We are all for Ukraine over Russia but come on…
pepelepew111111 t1_iudmg8w wrote
That voting record no doubt will not be completely forgotten, yes.
omega3111 t1_iudnheb wrote
Exactly the opposite. The Russian that left to Israel are the ones that hate Russia. There is overwhelming opposition to Putin's action amongst Russians in Israel and Israelis in general.
MarcDVL t1_iudodsl wrote
The UNGA just voted on making Israel give up its nuclear weapons. Ukraine voted in favor of giving them up. You know, the same weapons that Ukraine gave up which allowed Russia to invade two decades later.
bitcoins t1_iudokuw wrote
What a strange world
Grey___Goo_MH t1_iudrb8o wrote
Wouldn’t put much hope on Israel doing anything besides bulldozing homes.
rgbhfg t1_iudrqri wrote
If Israel shoots down 99% and Iran launched 1000. That’s still 10 which hit their target.
Defense by itself isn’t the full picture. Also need offensive capabilities
rgbhfg t1_iudrtk9 wrote
Their military was formed by ex nazis.
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iudt9ih wrote
Ukraine decries Israel's decision to limit support to diplomatic, humanitarian, and military, but avoid providing significant weapon systems.
Yet Ukraine seems to have no issue voting against Israel at the UN, a policy whose reversal would be the absolute bare minimum they could do to support Israel back.
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iudtd8g wrote
Especially since today we got a painful reminder that Israel is still as anti-Israel as it was for decades.
Candelestine t1_iudthdg wrote
You make it sound like Israel is being asked to invade Iran. They just wanted to buy some Iron Dome. And the answer of "No, but here, have some radars." is a workable compromise, it's understandable that they wouldn't want to sell their entire cutting edge system.
May as well ask though, if they had said yes that'd be a pretty nice thing to set up around Kyiv, even if it drained their spare cash.
HiHoJufro t1_iudtx71 wrote
Yeah, I don't know why people don't count the condemnation, aid, field hospital, equipment, and accepting refugees as being supportive.
[deleted] t1_iuducag wrote
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Needsmorsleep t1_iudvbyr wrote
Zelensky is Jewish
Shplank t1_iudx6vp wrote
They never said that. All fake reports are coming from Ukraine and not from Israel.
Shplank t1_iudxicc wrote
He's married to a non-Jewish woman. His kids are not Jewish. Nobody in Israel care that he's specifically Jewish. Israel don't want to get involved in this.
Spudtron98 t1_iudy1fa wrote
At that point, it's extremely uneconomical. Iran relies on smuggled western components for those drones, and launching a thousand of them to land ten hits on targets that probably aren't even that vital is a bad trade.
[deleted] t1_iudya3k wrote
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xsv_compulsive t1_iudzbhc wrote
Consider that Zelensky releasing statements like this might not be what they seem at face value, there are sometimes many layers of psyops aimed at both sides of the war at the same time
Here's a fun one, why would Zelensky criticize Germany's lack of military aid even though they're one of the top three contributors? What message would that send to Ukrainians, to Germans, to Russians, to other allies
annadpk t1_iudznpr wrote
It won't. Israel survived this long because it put its interest first. From a foreign policy perspective, there is little gain. What has Ukraine done for Israel?
>Scott Lasensky, an Obama administration State Department official who is now a professor of Israel studies at the University of Maryland, said Israelis are predisposed to viewing Putin kindly because of his philosemitism — a friendliness toward Jews that upends centuries of antisemitic hostility from the tsars and then the Soviets.
>
>He recalled Putin visiting Israel in 2014, and meeting with his German language tutor, a Jewish woman who emigrated to Israel. (Putin would have needed German as a KGB officer stationed in East Germany.) “They wowed Putin,” Lasensky said of the Israeli government.
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>“It’s a different kind of relationship, and they’ve kept it on the warm side,” Lasensky said, noting that Russia allows Israelis visa-free travel, which the United States does not.
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>Notably, in 2014, when the US spurred a United Nations General Assembly resolution condemning Russia’s seizure of Crimea from Ukraine, Israel absented itself, breaking its practice of voting with the US even on the most obscure issues.
-wnr- t1_iue010t wrote
There's probably IP that Israel doesn't want to risk falling into Russia, and then by extension Iranian, hands. Instead they sold Ukraine radar systems and bombed a factory in Syrian making Iranian drone components, which seems like a fairly clear indicator of support.
r-reading-my-comment t1_iue1d5q wrote
Reddit encounters click bait: reddit attacks Ukraine in confusion.
Seriously, this is a non-story about political shower thoughts.
jisaacs1207 t1_iue1ino wrote
Imagine expecting a nation to do the right thing and push back against -as hard as they can- a country scaffolding the framework of WW3 (including horrendous human rights violations), and being allowed to keep your agency in politics.
One would think, as a Jew myself, that Israel would understand the consequences of not doing your utmost to shutdown this down.
They came for the Ukrainians, I didn’t do as much as I could as it’s not me.
They came for Europe, I didn’t do as much as I could as it’s not me.
They came for neighboring nations, I didn’t do as much as I could as it’s not me.
Now they are knocking on my goddamned door and there is no one that CAN do anything to help me.
r-reading-my-comment t1_iue1oqq wrote
Well thank God this is a click bait article that's blowing random comments out of proportion.
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iue20ll wrote
What are you on about? If Ukraine wants to be anti-Israel, they should not demand Israel's support and rail on it for allegedly not providing any (despite the abundance of evidence of Israel's support). Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Certainly they shouldn't tell Israel that it should stand on the right side of history and then proceed to stand on the wrong side of history themselves at the UN.
r-reading-my-comment t1_iue2jyo wrote
His family in Israel probably cares, the Jerusalem post seemed to as well.
Here's some info, not all Israelis are conservative cunts. Many can actually use this thing called critical thinking.
Needsmorsleep t1_iue2oks wrote
By your definition you probably think Obama isn't black and nobody black in America thinks he's black or cares about him.
Really strange jew gate keeping you're doing. if anything you're being an anti-semite.
jisaacs1207 t1_iue2rho wrote
Israel regularly votes against the countries feeding it, and often outright defies them. It is called political agency-an important notion in national sovereignty.
r-reading-my-comment t1_iue2vzh wrote
Yes, we know the Ukrainian military was formed out of the Soviet Military./s
Seriously though, the only reason neo-Nazis had any military power was because some jackass invaded Crimea.
djazzie t1_iue39jv wrote
I mean, we’re probably going to see a big Covid spike this winter so….
rgbhfg t1_iue3ip6 wrote
Tell that to hezbola and those who died while under the protection of the iron dome
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iue3lx9 wrote
I'm not aware of such instance. Can you provide an example?
If the resolution at hand was consistent with Ukraine's current policies or Ukraine's vote in favor was driven by any security or political needs, fine. But it is neither consistent with its policies, nor does it assist it in any way. The resolution was passed in the UNGA, not UNSC, making it symbolical; was sponsored by some of the most pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine nations; and finally is about denuclearization of a country Ukraine depends on for assistance, while Ukraine itself suffers greatly from its own forced denuclearization.
kilobitch t1_iue4df0 wrote
Israel barely has enough Iron Dome batteries to protect itself. They aren’t selling them en masse on the open market. I think the US might possess 2 batteries. There’s no way Israel would risk their own safety by selling off currently deployed ID batteries to Ukraine or anyone else. And it’s a huge risk that it could be captured by Russia and intel on it then passed on to Iran.
Shplank t1_iue5wr5 wrote
In Orthodox Judaism, you're Jewish by the Mother.
Needsmorsleep t1_iue6nbc wrote
Last time I checked, his young children aren't President of Ukraine
Shplank t1_iue9dcf wrote
I'm saying that Israel don't care he's Jewish. It's a non issue.
falconzord t1_iuea8t2 wrote
What is they deployed it in Kyiv well beyond Russian reach? It would also let them test it out against Iranian weapons
intellifone t1_iuea9t4 wrote
Israel’s response: geopolitics is complicated. We don’t like the situation either but it’s anarchy out here.
kylorensgrandfather t1_iueanh1 wrote
Israel + Ukraine vs Russia + Iran.
My money is on Israel and Ukraine.
kilobitch t1_iueb2ik wrote
ID isn’t designed to intercept the kinds of missiles and drones Russia is using against Kyiv. It’s for short range rockets and artillery.
And again, they don’t have any to spare.
OtherUnameInShop t1_iuec24j wrote
Israel is an apartheid state
godel32 t1_iueeijg wrote
> Worst case it could kick off more war in the Middle East between Israel and Russia
So? After what the Ukrainian army did to them, Israel would easily be able to adequately defend itself.
vivainio t1_iueflnl wrote
Israel has survived this long because they have strong friends in the west
Apple_Pie_4vr t1_iuei244 wrote
This is on them….a small humanitarian hospital at the border just won’t cut it.
[deleted] t1_iuelvem wrote
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Ivanthegorilla t1_iuenfmg wrote
israel is scared of the Russian occupation in syria
PhillipIInd t1_iueo5wy wrote
100 of those drones is about the price of a cruise missile, it really isnt and thats the issue
hakenwithbacon t1_iuery86 wrote
Ukraine has a voting record against a lot of nations it seems to be asking for help from. Such as India.
BlackPriestOfSatan t1_iuesi3d wrote
No one wants to talk about this obviously. But this played out in the 1990s in Argentina and Yugoslavia.
I am no political expert but I do not know if one should be inviting nations to go out of their way to join a war. I would like for this to end immediately but it looks like this war is going to go on for a very long time. Very sad for the people going thru this. This is just terrible.
I am assuming anyone left in Ukraine or Russia is not able to leave. Very sad times ahead.
CamelSpotting t1_iuevax3 wrote
CamelSpotting t1_iuevsvf wrote
Everyone is anti-israel except the US and Israel knows exactly what they're doing wrong. This isn't them taking something personally.
Layer8_Workshop t1_iuexfi4 wrote
Because Germany was slow to provide lethal aid at the beginning of the war.
RNBQ4103 t1_iueynbz wrote
I am afraid Zelensky is ruffling a lot of feathers.
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phrostbyt t1_iuf279z wrote
as a Ukrainian Jew the UNGA vote really boggles my mind. i really want some reporter to ask Zelensky why they decided to vote against
CamelSpotting t1_iuf38pp wrote
That's still quite a bit cheaper than one jet and clears out some of their ammunition and tracking capacity so the jet has a better chance of getting through.
CamelSpotting t1_iuf3e2n wrote
Some, but not the sophisticated stuff.
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iuf3tj9 wrote
Me too. I support Ukraine and will keep supporting it regardless but I think Zelensky personally has some deficiencies that may harm his otherwise noble cause.
[deleted] t1_iuf4bai wrote
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CamelSpotting t1_iuf4ifi wrote
If they did that there wouldn't be any ambassadors left except the US. As it stands Israel is pretty ok with their actions and the consequences.
Harsimaja t1_iuf4qkz wrote
Germany pledged to send a zillion squillion, though
Layer8_Workshop t1_iuf6vfs wrote
Good to know that Israel prioritizes toothless UN resolutions over helping protect a fascist threat to the 5th largest Jewish population in Europe, with a Jewish president.
Is Israel unbelievably petty, or is the self-described national home of the Jewish people happy to see a rival for that title suffer a fascist invasion?
jisaacs1207 t1_iuf7423 wrote
The best examples of openly defying the countries supporting them would be the ongoing strikes on Palestine.
I don’t want to involve that in the thread outside of saying that supporting nations are not enthused about everything going on, and are open about it.
Still:
At the end of the day, the Jewish people have seen this type of thing before and know the outcome very well.
Regardless of any votes, the aid isn’t for just Ukraine-that is narrow minded and very short-term-thinking. There is another unstable warmonger in Europe that is commuting genocide. We know how this goes!
We also know that Jews always end up on the menu eventually in these cases.
jisaacs1207 t1_iuf7hn9 wrote
It’s important to note that you are an American citizen living in the USA. I’m unsure if you are a dual citizen somehow as that is illegal in Ukraine, but claiming to be a Ukrainian Jew is misleading if you are a voting American citizen.
Arrow2019x t1_iuf7l7u wrote
They didn't until the cold war though
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Zucc_Boi_ t1_iuf8uru wrote
Wanna also smell my underwear?
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iuf8zqs wrote
So Israel hasn't actually voted against its allies?
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iuf91lh wrote
Okay buddy.
calm_chowder t1_iuf9fhd wrote
If Russia attacked Israel you better believe a bunch of Middle East countries would join in. Israel has a population of 9 million people, slightly more people than live in New York City - not an endless supply of soldiers. They can't afford an unnecessary war or to lose any territory.
Shplank t1_iuf9zy5 wrote
So now Israel is the problem here ? Wonder why they don't want anything to do with Russians and Ukrainians .. Who butchered Jews in their lovely past
FisterMister22 t1_iufagbt wrote
Hezbollah hasn't killed any Israelis since the iron dome became operational.
Common_Ad_6362 t1_iufasdz wrote
It's also likely propaganda and some AA batteries being fired at homemade rockets coming from a third world country.
jisaacs1207 t1_iufb9u5 wrote
If you want to be pedantic, fine. Otherwise:
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-698743/amp
https://www.axios.com/2022/02/27/us-protests-israel-refusal-condemn-russia-un
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2032486/amp
Israel failed to the toe the line of their supporters.
There are other examples of similar, but that is a fairly recent time.
Then, of course there is stuff like this:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/30/israel
To answer your question directly, other than outwardly defying and not supporting their supporters, it looks like you’re right about the voting.
My point, excluding the voting, stands however.
Both Israel and Ukraine rely on foreign powers, Israel for much longer than Ukraine. Both countries express their own agency in politics as is their right.
We are in the brink of a world war and genocide is being committed under our noses. “But they voted against us so…” shouldn’t even be on the table.
Especially not for cultures that have been the victim of genocide in the past. There were many reasons given to not become directly involved in ending the holocaust, and I’m glad empathy and rationality won out.
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Nileghi t1_iufc0iw wrote
they werent friends with the west until the end of the 60s, long after they survived their most dangerous and existantial wars.
CamelSpotting t1_iufc9bo wrote
It's honestly infantilizing to pretend Israel doesn't know where they stand.
PurpleSUMFan t1_iufczzq wrote
No way 90% of these drones are getting shot down unless its with AAA (anti-aircraft-artillery). These drones leave a very small cross-section for radars to pick up.
PurpleSUMFan t1_iufd650 wrote
Hasn't hezbollah not gone to war with Israel though after 2006? Or am I wrong and they have done attacks?
watson895 t1_iufd9m7 wrote
Israel is pretty much the ideal country when it comes to missile defense. Very small, dense and with a small area where rocket attacks originate. Ukraine would needs orders of magnitude more batteries to get the same results.
watson895 t1_iufdqw8 wrote
What does Russia have a fuck load of that Iran really wants. And could send towards Israel? How many shitty drones would they trade for a dozen of those?
phrostbyt t1_iufe54e wrote
OK Ukrainian-born jew if that makes you feel better?
PurpleSUMFan t1_iufe9qr wrote
I understand the US didn't really help israel much until eisenhower came in but weren't the british and french tight with israel, to the point that the brits and french made a plan with israel of how to deal with the suez canal crisis that involved israel invading and then the other 2 coming in to pretend to break up the fight while actually holding it?
horsemagicians t1_iuffgdc wrote
Lol what a dumbass response. “We have had thousands of civilians and soldiers die at the hands of Russia, even though we’re winning. So you should just accept the same fate by helping us.”
horsemagicians t1_iuffv1y wrote
What a weird fucking thing to do.
jisaacs1207 t1_iufg5rc wrote
So you’re an American Jew with Ukrainian heritage questioning the motives of a foreign leader. That hits differently than being a Ukrainian Jew questioning the motives of your leader while living in Ukraine- that is all I am saying.
[deleted] t1_iufgkrl wrote
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phrostbyt t1_iufgmdx wrote
I was born in Ukrainian SSR. I identity as a Ukrainian jew (I have other identities as well) I don't understand why you care anyway. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. Scanning people's accounts is just strange behavior
dect60 t1_iufgx54 wrote
When faced with an evil megalomaniac like Putin who is determined to wipe you from the face of the earth, rustled jimmies and ruffled feathers are fair game.
RNBQ4103 t1_iufhmvt wrote
Review the comic invincible, when the demon detective is banished to Hell by Cecil because he could not be pragmatic.
Zelensky is risking a lot of backstabbing because he does not respect the interests of others.
jisaacs1207 t1_iufjfnk wrote
Everyone can have an opinion on anything they want, some hold more weight than others based on their circumstances and backgrounds.
You misleading people to think you have more personal experience than you do, and trying to trigger empathy, then being upset about being called out isn’t uncommon behavior. It is the exact reason websites exist to quickly check people out, though.
It is also why post history exists on your profile.
garrettj100 t1_iufjsck wrote
Not for nothing but the Israelis just blew up an Iranian drone factory. That’s them getting involved, along an axis they can justify, without directly escalating in Ukraine. After all RUSSIA ISN’T USING IRANIAN DRONES RIGHT?
John-Depth t1_iufk4le wrote
>Israel regularly votes against the countries feeding it
What countries does it vote against that are "feeding" it?
phrostbyt t1_iufknkq wrote
No it's just weird. i didn't post to elicit empathy, i posted to question Zelensky's decisions. if i wanted to be some kind of propaganda bot, i would just make a new account. and i do have personal experience. i was born there, i've lived there, i've been back there many times since. i still have family there. you're just being an asshole
jisaacs1207 t1_iufl1u2 wrote
Please check the comments a couple down-links included. Israel consistently defies nations that have been giving them billions in support and technology-both through abstaining or directly going against them.
This is fine. Israel is a sovereign nation and isn’t obliged to always follow demands, similar to Ukraine.
jisaacs1207 t1_iuflj8z wrote
Your right to an opinion doesn’t translate to a right to not have it put under fair scrutiny.
As someone who was bombed, and fled under gunfire in Kharkiv, excuse me for not taking what you say very seriously after being led to believe you were in similar circumstances.
phrostbyt t1_iuflq6p wrote
i never said i was living in Ukraine. you're not living there either. my family fled as refugees, so did yours. just different circumstances
dect60 t1_iufm9bh wrote
First order of business is to survive an existential threat, second order of business is to deal with the fallout. See Churchill at al.
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Fortifical t1_iufmh9h wrote
Israel has a deal in place. No arms to Ukraine and Georgia and in return Russia won't sell to Iran. Break that and Iran will be supplied with as much as it can afford. Now, we've seen these Russian weapons in action and maybe there isn't so much to worry about. And I doubt the Russians will have any arms to spare for a long time. Might be worth changing stance. Why worry about some dusty rockets when Iran is making advanced drones? It would certainly make sense to have Ukraine on your side if Iran does go all out one day. They'll have many trained soldiers and mercenaries. Not to mention innovative and war proven arms.
SeaworthinessFew2418 t1_iufr5kp wrote
More like showing them off in Ukraine so they can sell them on the open market, similar to how bayraktar gave a bunch of their drones to Ukraine as basically free advertisement.
International arms sales is a multi-billion dollar industry that every country wants to get a cut of. Iran's market is all those third world countries who can't buy expensive American weapons because of either high cost, or because they plan on using them for all the wrong reasons.
TheGazelle t1_iufrfjf wrote
And unlike Ukraine, Israel doesn't really share any borders with reliable allies that could be depended upon to support them.
The only reason they haven't been directly attacked in a while is because it went really poorly for the attackers the last few times, and Israel has since ensured that its military is the biggest, baddest dog on the block - by necessity.
[deleted] t1_iufs6yy wrote
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John-Depth t1_iufubd9 wrote
>This is fine. Israel is a sovereign nation and isn’t obliged to always follow demands, similar to Ukraine.
I don't think it's comparable. As you already acknowledged, Israel does not vote against countries that support it. By "Straight up defies", it seems like you mean to say "did not do everything the said state wanted them to do", or simply abstained from a UN vote. Perhaps, it's even less of a deal then voting against a state in the UN.
A more apt comparison to Ukraine would be if Israel would consistently vote against a state while demanding it should get military support from it. or on the inverse, if Ukraine refused to vote as Israel says in a specific resolution because it goes against their interest. This is not the case.
k_elo t1_iufv61y wrote
Narrayor: needs are heard. More war and more covid coming right up.
edc667 t1_iufv8h1 wrote
>So? After what the Ukrainian army did to them, Israel would easily be able to adequately defend itself.
Here's a simple explanation:
More war = more death = not good
Timely_Leading_7651 t1_iufx15w wrote
They wont have to be scared of it if they help ukraine make russia pull all their troop into ukraine instead of syria
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IsraeliDonut t1_iufzcku wrote
Israel has been aiding Ukraine for several months now
IsraeliDonut t1_iufzfye wrote
Agreed, they want support but don’t want to support Israel in even minuscule ways
IsraeliDonut t1_iufzhex wrote
What human rights violations?
IsraeliDonut t1_iufzj7v wrote
You don’t do your own research?
jisaacs1207 t1_iufzrlk wrote
Abstaining is voting against, by way of … well, how voting works in this situation. Furthermore, Israel consistently does exactly what it’s supporting nations asks it to not do regarding how the conflict with its neighbors is being handled.
Both Ukraine and Israel are nations that are being propped up, Israel having been for a very long time. The reason for this is that both nations have very unfriendly neighbors that would sooner absorb their territory and that dismisses their sovereignty.
The big difference here is that the Israel has much more experience, are more mature in their existence, have been propped up long enough to build a defense network, and understands the stakes. Jews know, intimately, the result of madmen annexing their neighbors with genocidal intent.
Aid with the intent of immediately ending what is, again, cultivating should not being contingent on anything. I would not deny my neighbor water if their house was on fire, even if their vote against my interest. Doing so is just not Jewish culture. Pragmatism alone would warn that fires spread.
IsraeliDonut t1_iufzs98 wrote
Which votes are you talking about?
jisaacs1207 t1_iug014n wrote
Please check the comments further down.
jisaacs1207 t1_iug0nk3 wrote
Russia is attempting genocide, in several forms. It is castrating, raping, and murdering men, women, and children. It is stealing children, it is creating a famine… the list goes on. I mean, the reports are pretty public at this point as are videos.
I really hope you’re not arguing about the substance of all this evidence.
Nileghi t1_iug1liu wrote
yes, but the US quickly told them to break up with Israel after this incident. The Suez crisis was the last time France and Britain started acting like the superpowers they used to be, and it was a good introduction to them to the superpowers of tommorow USA and Soviet Union.
The USA then proceeded to impose an arms embargo on the entire region, including Israel. Israel then started its own military industrial complex made out of scrap metal.
Its how worldwide global names such as the Uzi came about. A humble weapon constructed in a desert out of scrap metal that won wars.
All_Work_All_Play t1_iug3ljy wrote
I still don't understand why everyone cares what Israel does. But geopolitics isn't my forte by any metric.
spaceshiploser t1_iug4itx wrote
LOL have we forgotten what happened to the Jewish communities in Europe?? we don’t owe you shit. If you’re so Jewish come live in Israel
DarkWangster t1_iug7651 wrote
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IsraeliDonut t1_iug7sj0 wrote
You can just tell me a few
TunaCanTheMan t1_iug7tgr wrote
The audacity and lack of self awareness for Europeans to make foreign policy demands and try to guilt trip Jews truly is astounding.
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spaceshiploser t1_iuga9xg wrote
Yea you’re telling me.. I have family that escaped from Ukraine during WWII. Some didn’t. Those who did are still alive. To be asking them to give their tax money back to the place that killed their families is really hard to describe with words the feeling that evokes
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jisaacs1207 t1_iugbh65 wrote
Would abstaining on the condemnation of Russia’s invasion during its initial stages, despite being urged to by their supporters, work for you? That is the most recent I can think of offhand.
Please don’t argue that abstaining is not the same as voting against. You asked when they voted against their supporting nations, and the choice to abstain worked directly against the condemnations.
https://www.axios.com/2022/02/27/us-protests-israel-refusal-condemn-russia-un
IsraeliDonut t1_iugbr1o wrote
Sure, but Russia doesn’t really feed Israel
Ok_Magician7814 t1_iugf1fq wrote
Agree but you left out it’s powerful big brother watching over it
jisaacs1207 t1_iugfqzy wrote
No, but the US is one of the nations that does. Israel’s defiance towards the US is my point. It seems like we are miscommunicating.
Israel voted against a country that props it up. Ukraine is requesting aid from a country it voted against. Both are perfectly fine, and a good thing. The purpose of voting, or abstaining, is an expression of national interest.
Humanitarian aid and defense should not be a tool of extortion to levy fealty-especially not in the case of attempted genocide.
The topic of genocide is and should be sensitive to the Jewish people, and we should be exceptionally forceful in preventing it at all costs. It really doesn’t matter who the victim is, there should be no greater advocate for the victims of attempted genocide. This is a “no expense spared,” type of situation.
IsraeliDonut t1_iugfybu wrote
Ok, But you said they voted against the hand that feeds them
jisaacs1207 t1_iuggamk wrote
Oh, I see the problem-it’s linguistic. By, “voted against,” I mean they, “voted against the will of.”
By abstaining, they voted against the will of the United States, one of their main contributors.
I see you thought I meant they condemned Russia, which they didn’t do back in February. Israel chose to remain neutral, not condemn the invasion, and irked their western supporters.
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iughhlh wrote
The one that stayed out of its earliest, most important wars thinking it would lose?
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iughui3 wrote
But Zelenskiy sure is quick to invoke how similar he thinks the two nations are in their victimhood. “The Russians had the audacity to bomb the Holocaust memorial we have ^(and we took part in)”
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iugi5kc wrote
That’s their strategy via Hamas and PIJ. overwhelm the iron dome with rockets and some will get through. They sent over 4000 during the most recent major barrage.
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iugikdr wrote
IsraeliDonut t1_iuging1 wrote
What about all the aid Israel has given Ukraine?
Ok_Magician7814 t1_iugjbml wrote
The one that to date has given it hundreds of billions of dollars of aid money, not to mention ongoing military support
aomukai t1_iugpvug wrote
To be fair though, India is shady as fuck.
aomukai t1_iugqe32 wrote
No. They were sending helmets. Germany was unwilling to send weapons at that time. Do your homework before you confidently state BS.
idontagreewitu t1_iugrnf0 wrote
> This article makes no mention of that.
Probably because if it did, then it wouldn't make Ukraine seem more pathetic and needing of help, and make Israel look like a bad guy when everyone should be helping Ukraine.
APsWhoopinRoom t1_iugs4wf wrote
Honestly I'm surprised they didn't do that prior to mobilizing conscripts. What good is Syria to Russia at this point?
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iugtgkw wrote
So yes, the one that gives that aid money with the caveat that it must be spent on American weapons that will then get battle tested, unless it’s spent on technology and intelligence that also benefits America. But I’m not sure what ongoing military support you mean since you’re mentioning that separately from aid money.
StayAtHomeDuck t1_iugud3j wrote
Not true, there was one successful ATGM ambush in 2015 on the Israeli border.
Zucc_Boi_ t1_iugvxq0 wrote
>If you want to be pedantic, fine. Otherwise:
>https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-698743/amp
>https://www.axios.com/2022/02/27/us-protests-israel-refusal-condemn-russia-un
>https://www.arabnews.com/node/2032486/amp
>Israel failed to the toe the line of their supporters.
>There are other examples of similar, but that is a fairly recent time.
>Then, of course there is stuff like this:
You failed to address the fact that this (all are one case, not 3) was anticipated and coordinated with the US when Israel was seen as a potential mediator. As soon as mediation efforts broke down, Israel immediately switched to harshly criticizing Russia. But before any criticism, Israel was already providing Ukraine with humanitarian and material support.
Ukraine's decision, on the other hand, came as a surprise to everyone, and unlike Israel it did not abstain, but outright supported the resolution when the entire west didn't.
>Then, of course there is stuff like this:
>https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/30/israel
How is that related to anything? Israel is defending itself, and so is Ukraine.
>My point, excluding the voting, stands however.
>Both Israel and Ukraine rely on foreign powers, Israel for much longer than Ukraine. Both countries express their own agency in politics as is their right.
>We are in the brink of a world war and genocide is being committed under our noses. “But they voted against us so…” shouldn’t even be on the table.
>Especially not for cultures that have been the victim of genocide in the past. There were many reasons given to not become directly involved in ending the holocaust, and I’m glad empathy and rationality won out.
Your point does not stand, because your only argument was proven to be false. Israel does not vote against its own allies, and does not go against them when it seeks their help, therefore Ukraine shouldn't antagonize its allies either. You can say it's just a vote, but it's also an expression of one's policies, and Ukraine is decidedly anti-Israel.
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prof_atlas t1_iuh2s9c wrote
I hear you. People shouldn't fall into divisive headline traps.
The West is very well aligned, and Israel's interests are aligned with the West's.
It doesn't pay to go further down this rabbit hole.
Labor_Zionist t1_iuh4rqq wrote
Which we are thankful for, but you can't base the existence of your country on a single ally. The US didn't always support Israel and there is no guarantee it will always continue to do so.
KomnenosMyBeloved t1_iuh59xd wrote
They literally just voted against us having nuclear weapons in the UNGA, tell them to either stfu or return support to us.
KomnenosMyBeloved t1_iuh5ozw wrote
My bets are on that you aren't even Israeli
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Sensitive-Pirate-461 t1_iuhbutb wrote
Its an up vote from me.
TheGazelle t1_iuhhf2u wrote
Yes, the one which is half a world away and wouldn't really have any safe path to get supplies in should put surrounding nations decide it's in their best interest to fuck with Israel again.
godel32 t1_iuhw4qq wrote
Now imagine the isolationists saying the same thing in the US in 1939.
godel32 t1_iuhwctt wrote
Now put your words into the isolationists in the US in 1939 who were afraid of the US getting involved in the war against Hitler.
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