Another mentally stable, responsible gun owner.

Married, lots of kids, nice area, nice house... I wonder what could have precipitated this.

Easy access to a gun makes even small mental crises into life threatening situations.

Thank god they had a guns and not mental health support

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I think this is the sort of person who would have figured out another way to do it though. I mean it was a standoff, it wasn't exactly impulsive

Standoffs can happen after something impulsive? How are the two related?

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Your gonna get a lot of hate here but man being cheated on can make your react very terrible. Maybe these guns escalate something that should have been at worst am argument

My brain instantly read "police shoots and kills wife", because of how many police killings there were on here recently.

One of the longest, deadliest standoffs in my hometown happened after a "model citizen" father flipped his shit when he found out CPS was investigating his son for abuse towards the kids in their foster care.

One phone call giving him the heads up the police were coming and he decided to shoot the first officer that showed up and her partner.

And this very case could be an example of that. He shot her while she was in her moving car, which seems more spontaneous than planned. Once he realizes how fucked he is, he panics and it becomes a standoff.

Why would they get hate for saying infidelity could be the cause of violence? While rational and well adjusted people won't resort to violence, I don't think anyone would argue that it's not a very emotionally charged situation with a lot of anger.

Hell, I got into an argument once on reddit with someone who said it's normal and common for people to get violent after being cheated on.

Or he could be an abusive piece of shit and she said she's done, which is more often the case

Anyway to site the news story without doxxing yourself?

Because gun nuts like to pretend that all "responsible" gun owners have iron-clad mental abilities and emotional control. It runs counter to their objective to admit that a legal gun owner could lose it in a moment of distress and use his legal firearm to murder someone.

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There is a big step between this:

> I mean arguably it is normal by virtue of being common that people become irrational and unconsolably emotional

And this:

> and yes even violent

Most people don't become violent even when they become irrationally angry. People that do, need some form of anger management. Violence in response to cheating is not common or normal, even though irrational anger is common and normal.

Okay so I got some details off because I actually don't live there but family was giving me a play by play... apparently officers showed up to interview the son.

https://www.wbtw.com/crime/pee-dee-crime/disbarred-lawyer-accused-of-shooting-7-florence-officers-in-ambush-argues-over-financial-need/

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Debt probably.

>Most people don't become violent even when they become irrationally angry.

I'll have to find some stats on that

>People that do, need some form of anger management.

No disagreement here. I work with addicts. Lots of them out of prison or fresh from anger management classes.

>Violence in response to cheating is not common or normal, even though irrational anger is common and normal.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/56a7/e2b8f13215977c181fa691aab6265f19b93e.pdf

I dunno man. Searching "infidelity intimate partner violence" makes it seem pretty common. I mean as far as causes of intimate partner violence.

Another victory for the wonderful 2A. More dead people dead at the hands of a law abiding citizen with a legal gun.

Edit: jhc, if you’re a 2A supporter or a gun nut and you want to respond to my comment with your support for gun owner rights, or the 2A, or profess your love for your shiny guns at least have the balls to leave your post up when it gets downvotes. I’ve had four responses, all deleted, one in less than 5 mins. If you don’t have the guts to state your position and support it, don’t make it.

Nah, probably a domestic abuser. She probably tried to leave and he killed her. The riskiest time to a womans life is when she tries to leave a domestic abuse situation. 3-4 women per day in the US are killed by male domestic violence.

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The husband probably has a history of being abusive or controlling. That kind of thing happens everywhere regardless of the family's wealth, house, neighborhood, or how happy they look in public. Domestic murder suicides seem to be all about power with the guy taking his wife's life. Maybe the wife was planning to divorce him for being an abusive ass and he couldn't let that happen so he did this without caring at all about what he was doing to his kids.

We had a father murder his ex-wife in a semi-wealthy suburb outside of Pittsburgh and then he shot himself all because his ex had dared to start dating 5 years after their divorce. I always felt so bad for their young kids who have to grow up now without their parents.

If you search for cases where cheating lead to violence, you're going to find a lot, but what you won't find is the vast majority that aren't newsworthy because no one goes crazy.

Another woman murdered by her male mate.

I won't dispute that. Both are certainly emotionally charged events and I can't find any statistics that break down the causes of IPH (intimate Partner Homicide).

As a woman, it makes me sad how scary men can be. :(

Even in countries without guns, intimate Partner Homicide happens far too frequently.

The causes are insecure and violent male partners. Nothing a female spouse does should result in her murder.

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Who are the ones doing the murdering though?

Like ignoring how tasteless your comment is it also neglects that men are responsible for the most physical damage in cases of domestic violence. So before you come onto a thread to just throw a woman's fears back at her I'd consider the sand on which you build your house.

I think the gut reaction to blame the murdered woman is the thing to be disgusted at here.

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A standoff seems like the result of an impulsive decision to me. A standoff has no real viable endgame so it's a result of a lack of planning. At least that's how my logic sees it

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Leaving is the most dangerous time for women and the time she is most likely to be murdered. However, the biggest indicator that she will be killed by her male partner is prior instances involving strangulation.

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It doesn't have to be her who cheated. He could have been the cheater and got caught. It's just an emotionally charged time that leads violent people to be violent

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clearly you didn't read the article, because dude shot his wife while she was driving away. how would you think he'd do that with a knife?

He hangs out on redpill subs, so don’t expect much

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Considering the prevalence for domestic violence amongst police officers, it would be a totally honest mistake to make.

The 2A is a suicide pact.

I believe she owned a home healthcare business. If she asked for a divorce, that may have affected his bottom line greatly. I live nearby there. A woman was handcuffed and stabbed to death by her spouse not long ago around here, too.

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Walp not often I see things in my reddit feed right in my backyard. That's a really wealthy area this happened in.

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And overwhelmingly against the female partner.

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You already admitted you don’t have any evidence to back this claim up. You said “probably infidelity” implying that the wife drove the husband to this by an immoral act. That’s not “discussing triggering behaviors” that’s assuming that she cheated with zero evidence.

People like you who see accusations when there are none are exhausting. Have a good night.

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Do you understand though why people are downvoting and replying to you in this way?

The person you replied to asked “why did this happen?”

You replied “probably infidelity.” Which is the same as saying “probably something SHE did to HIM that caused this.”

You don’t know that it was infidelity- but you said it was probable that it was infidelity despite lack of evidence.

These are the issues with your comment.

Reminds me of that Donald Glover stand up routine from over a decade ago: "Guys have tons of crazy ex-girlfriend stories, but women don't have a lot of crazy ex stories. Because if their ex is crazy... they die"

And others immediately jumped to pre-existing domestic violence and her leaving. Both are equally without proof. Both are possible. But your automatic assumption that I have some kind of issue with women is problematic and I will not sit by and be slandered. This will be my last reply as this is not a productive conversation. Good night.

3-4 women are killed by the men in their lives per day in the US alone.

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It's 2-3 per week in the UK, while better, it is still unacceptably high.

We have 67 mil in the uk compared to americas 330 mil.

Yeah, the rates should probably be compared to individual states, or adjusted to a per Capita basis to compare.

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What part of the article made you think this wasn’t something impulsive? And which part talks about the accused as a person that makes you make the determination that this guy would’ve “found a way” to stop his fleeing wife from driving away without the use of a gun?

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Slash tires. Duh!

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Wealthy neighborhood yes but let’s not act like monroeville is a very affluent area lol

I wonder what the other 100 million gun owners would say. Stay ignorant

Considering how whenever I interact with gun owners online they’re always making “jokes” about shooting government officials or people they disagree with politically, probably give him a high five.

I’m not completely anti gun, but the average gun owner is one of the main reasons I’m so anti gun. They’re assholes at best, mass shooters in waiting at worst. Gun culture in the US is wack.

At least in Canada, income is negatively associated with domestic violence. Poor abusive people physically abuse their families. Rich abusive people verbally abuse their underlings at work. Maybe it's different in the United States.

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Yeah I was kinda confused after reading the title and realizing it wasn't posted in /r/pittsburgh but was in a main sub.

Fuck, that’s some heavy standup

As a man, this makes me sad how scary men can be

Monroeville is where Zach and Miri: Make a Porno was filmed and took place.

Yeah I don't hate men at all, I love you guys. I think our society is failing our men. :/

Eta: failing in some ways but there's so much forward momentum and hope. The sacred male is beautiful and intregal to everything and i believe in you and me too. 💜

England and Wales homicide rate 2021/22: 1.17 per 100,000 people.

England and Wales female homicide rate 0.33 per 100K

US homicide in 2021 7.8 per 100K

US female 1.4 per 100K

I done England and Wales because Scotland and NI report separately

Scotland 2021/22 homicide rate 1.0 per 100k

Scotland female 0.25 per 100K.

Yes but what's the homicide rate specifically involving intimate partner violence? The numbers me and the other poster were discussing were specifically intimate partner violence.

Cool. Can you tell me how he differs from the 2-3 other guys EVERY DAY who shoot their intimate partner to death?

I suppose they could all find a different way, but guns are what they choose.

Weird how that works.

Almost like it’s way easier to kill someone with a gun.

Especially when they are driving away like this poor woman was.

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The Scottish government handily mentions that 56% of female victims are killed by a partner/ex partner.

Which becomes a rate of 0.17 female homicide by partner/ex partner per 100K people.

England and Wales claims 62% of female homicide victims are killed by a partner/ex partner.

England and Wales 0.21 female killed by partner/ex partner per 100M

US 55% by partner/ex partner.

US 0.77 Female homicide by partner/ex partner per 100k

So about 3x as much as the UK.

Thanks for putting in the work!

While the UK numbers do show the US has a big problem, it's still too high in the UK too and serious work needs put into addressing the problem.

Imagine a country where you have unfettered gun access on your worst day. WCGW?

If it was the other way around we would be banning cast iron skillets.

They literally linked you to a scholarly research paper on it. No not everyone who gets cheated on gets violent. But amongst the subset of people prone to violence, infidelity can be a major trigger for a violent act.

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Yeah, it doesn't have anything to do with the point they're trying to make.

Leave the first time a partner is abusive.

Staying is choosing to risk your life.

That is like 8 miles from me. I didn’t watch the news today. Insane

‘Remember Christine? Christine was crazy!’

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Unfortunately, leaving is often what triggers these escalations.

Why not both! (guns and not mental health support)

-Republicans

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Should be Moronville, be a man they say, manup they say, men don't cry they say

I live close to here, Monroeville is a pretty meh place with a history of gun violence, particularly the famous Monroeville mall.

No. These situations are triggered when victims leave after sustained abuse. Leaving early saves your life. The longer you stay, the riskier leaving becomes.

I just realized someone I'm distant friends with but never liked is exactly like this.

Certain things make more sense.

Except that’s not really true.

It’s true women are more likely to be murdered by their partners, but the vast majority of even crazy men don’t kill their partners.

Imagine if they did. There are so many crazy men around that if they were killing their partners like that women wouldn’t only be 20% of homicide victims.

Many women have crazy boyfriend stories.

There’s too many men like this

thanks for letting us know that a joke from a stand up set isn’t 100% accurate. i was very convinced before your comment

The home I grew up in is a 5 minute drive from this.

and in that neighborhood there was a murder suicide just like this in the late 80s or early 90s or something. no swat team though lmao.

I'm back in Delmont on the edge of Pennsyltucky. Might as well be ritzy to me lmao.

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What responsible gun owner was responsible for a gun crime this time?

Woah woah woah… let’s not confuse mental health disorders with CRIMINAL effing behavior, friend.

Then why mention it at all on a serious news article if it’s mostly BS?

are you new to reddit? you’d be extremely hard-pressed to find any thread with over 100 comments that doesn’t have a single joke, let alone one that is actually relevant to the subject of the post. “fact checking” a joke that is not meant to be taken literally, that no one is taking literally, is just dumb

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Tbh men are failing themselves to a certain extent. Society has a hand in it, but personal responsibility exists.

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How is society failing man?

Dawn of the Dead (1978) was filmed in the Monroeville Mall.

It's changed in the past 40 years, but it's still recognizable.

A yes, so the next time someone holds you at gunpoint you just walk away and won't get shot.

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Did you even bother to read the article? He was dead when they got there.

Tiger Woods enters the chat

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Dead by mental health support or guns?

Domestic abusers tend to like the nice optics of normalcy

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Where was the good guy with a gun

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You've mis-interpreted that statement.

So sick and tired of gun nut cowards.

Perhaps that wouldn’t have been the case if he had mental health support instead of guns.

Are you saying that mental illness plays zero possible role in someone murder-suiciding their family?

Really unfortunate what happened here. Just a fucking coward killing his wife.

I could never imagine taking my firearm and harming my family. I never will either. This dude was trash.

I don’t get why we can’t have both? Like mental health support and the right to bear arms?

Edit: lol the downvoting is why I can’t take some of y’all serious.

I mean that’s what he is insinuating.

It’s ironic how when I go to the gun range I always run into the best group of people but when a redditor says he met a few gun owners they were the columbine kids….

I think it’s just funny

One doesn’t preclude the other, it’s more an argument against how wildly disproportionate access to either is prioritized, as well as the difference on how each is stigmatized vs normalized.

Sure I could somewhat agree with that.

If we had an amendment that everyone had the right to free mental health, then I could see your point.

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Well, that’s the exact point that argument makes. Only one is a guaranteed constitutional right, it’s not a choice of one or the other but mental health needs to be treated as important as it is from an institutional and legislative perspective instead of doing the “mental health is important” argument carousel every time any article like this crops up. We’re not really getting anywhere with it as a country because legislators are too unwilling to take action.

Yeah no I agree. It sucks that allot times when I vote for someone. They have my allignment of things I value for something’s but not all things. For example I definitely value 2A very high but it so hard to get a politician that is Pro 2A and for actively trying to get better access to mental health programs. Where if I go to the other side they can pretty often be active in the mental health action but are very anti 2A. Some 3rd party would be great but have no chance to win sadly.

I believe the point here is that it doesn’t normally START like that. I’ve known a lot of women who stayed with a guy long after the little warning signs started piling up because they can fix him or he just gets like that sometimes but she knows he really loves her.

It never gets better in that situation. Never.

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You can't change your DNA. Get mad. Shake your fist at your gods. Won't matter one bit. Your DNA will continue to make another cell based on the original for as long as you live.

A loss of status is what usually proceeds family killings. It could have been some kind of financial pressure.

This may be technically true, but you really don’t understand how abusive situations work, or people who are stuck in them.

An armed society is a polite society… or that’s what the lying republicans tell me

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As a human, this makes me sad how scary men can be.

Men? I think humans in general are scary. I don’t think this exclusive to men…

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Even if it was infidelity on her part it doesn't excuse taking someone's life. Even if your partner cheats on you it doesn't mean you can just kill them. Domestic abuse or infidelity its still just as bad to kill someone.