What could Jordan realistically threaten Israel with?

2022 is the year of jumping over red lines.

Another intifada. Not directly, of course, but it wouldn’t be at all difficult to light a spark of anger and let the violence commence.

Jordan doesn’t have that sort of juice anymore, Iran drank their milkshake a long time ago.

He's just talking, they're allies with Israel

Michael Jordan

Unleash the horde

[deleted]

Getting the Americans to support them in the event of a crisis over the Temple Mount.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Jordan is still on friendlier terms with Israel than a lot of other Arab countries. He's just being a politician and trying to appeal to his base which empathizes with Palestinian politics.

wtf is this propaganda?

[deleted]

The buzz is nethanyshu is planning to revive the Hashemite Kingdom proposal, of simply handing off the West Bank to Jordan (more like forcing them to take it at gunpoint). This is the response.

A non-aggression treaty dues not Allies make

Uh source?

Jordan isn't necessarily weak, they have the entire Arab League behind them which have gotten stronger ever since their last conflict.

Also not all Diplomacy is backed by Military Power.

Jordan doesn't want another Black September.

? Jordan recognizes Israel and has a peace treaty and agreements on border disputes for decades.

Saudi has barely started to acknowledge the chance of normal relations with Israel.

It's better than the alternative.

Dude that’s a war you need to avoid lol.

I think the King of Jordan is an ideal example of a secular Muslim leader, that i hope other mena countries can follow.

This will never happen. They tried and failed. There is only two viable solutions to the conflict. 1) two state solution, 2) one state solution but it will not be a Jewish nor islamic state.

This is true. The king didn’t play along with their shitty plan to “solve” the Palestinian conflict, so they decided to get rid of him (unsuccessfully). The American aid to Jordan stopped during that time. The saudi aid to Jordan also stopped. It was tough economically in Jordan during that time.

Everyone hates Netanyahu.

Netanyahu, if there ever was a Devil.

How about not an autocrat?

I doubt nethanyahu takes the idea all that seriously. He just wants to keep up appearances while he greenlights more settlements.

I thought he was going to prison

Something that I can't help but wonder, why is the idea of allowing Jews to pray at their most holy site such a red line? As far as I can see, there isn't any talk of forbidding Muslims from getting to do so, just of allowing Jews to do so as well.

Or you know, they could grow up and adopt real democracies without autocrat leaders

he's cool though because he had a cameo in an episode of star trek

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Abdullah_bin_al-Hussein

Totally an autocrat, don’t deny that. But certain parts of the Middle East is not ripe enough for full blown democracy (in the western sense). 50 years of bad educational system needs to be reversed first.

Who is forbidding them? The Western wall is entirely manned by Jewish worshippers. What they want to do is demolish the Aqsa mosque, which is one of the three most holly mosques in Islam, along with Mecca and Medina, for almost 1400 years.

This has been Israeli strategy for 30+ years. They want to keep the situation as is, while slowly ethnically cleansing Palestinians, and building more and more illegal settlements. This sort of worked for them in the past, the old world order, but won’t work in the currently forming new world order.

The middle east is so polarized, that democracies only are bringing out extremism. That's what Israel has Netenyahu for 20+ years. Muslim countries would be electing the same level of extremism, like the Iranian Ayatollahs. Don't think it would solve one thing.

This isn’t about growing up. The region is not just ripe enough for democracy. The education system for the past 50+ years has been all about memorization, not critical thinking. Certainly not critical thinking in politics. And definitely no criticism thinking of religion. The curriculums also over emphasize certain parts of history and completely erases others. Once these things get overhauled, and true political parties form, then we can talk about democracy.

https://www.axios.com/2021/04/04/jordan-crown-prince-hussein-coup

Roy Shaposhnik:I am an Israeli living in Europe. I never served in any role in the Israeli intelligence services," Shaposhnik told me. "I don’t have any knowledge of the events that took place in Jordan or of the people involved. I am a close personal friend of Prince Hamzah."

Shaposhnik, 41, was a political operative in the centrist Kadima party in Israel 15 years ago. He served as an adviser to then Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Later he went to the private sector and worked for U.S. businessman Erik Prince's security company. After several years he established his own company, RS Logistical Solutions, which provided services to the U.S. State Department and other governments around the world. Shaposhnik’s company also provided logistical services to Prince’s company as it was training Iraqi soldiers in Jordan. This is when he met Prince Hamzah through a mutual friend. The pair and their families became close friends.

Hey, I an just going by the article itself, wherein the Jordanian king mentions that Jews being allowed to pray on the Temple Mount is one of the Red Lines.

I see no mention of demolishing the third most holy Muslim site, merely of Jewish prayer at the 1st most holy site in Judaism?

Brother what the hell you on rn? And what’s it called lmao

Israel has policing in place at sights disallowing worship for Jews because it makes the hamas and their backers shit their pants, cry, and try to kill same Israelis citizens.

Easier to expect civility from your citizens and ask them to understand they can’t pray there for public safety as an appeasement effort or whatever than to let them go and risk them getting attacked or retaliatory attacks. Even if they shoot down almost all the incoming rockets and one lands with only property damage, and there’s an increase in attacks on civilians but for the most part increased spending and enforcement works, it’s just NOT worth it for praying at a holy site.

We’ll hol up now that’s one hell of a title there I feel like I can name at least 20 leaders from history far worse and I’m not even particularly knowledgeable regarding most cultures.

Lmao fucking what? Ight guys just move on

> What they want to do is demolish the Aqsa mosque

This libel is over 90 years old.

[removed]

[deleted]

Muslims and other non-Jews are allowed to pray at the Western Wall. That arson attack is often blamed on Jews(as usual) but was not even done by one. Israeli police and the Jordanian Waqf have been preventing Jews from praying on the Temple Mount, bringing religious paraphernalia etc. And you are making excuses.

[removed]

Good, 100% support Isreal!!!! For years i was wondering, why... now i see why!!! I think we need to double down!!!

[removed]

What’s funny is that the significance is mostly about conquering it from the Byzantines.

If Palestinians and Muslims hadn’t gotten left-coded decades ago, it would be obvious to everyone that this is insane, Confederate monument-level horseshit.

Literally the excuse used to ethnically cleanse Hebron in 1929.

Isn't there supposed to be a big war that destroys all those places, followed by the arrival of the kingdom of heaven? I say everybody take their munitions and patriotism to the Middle East and turn the deserts into crystal-glass palaces for the cockroaches to set up in once we're back with God.

War in the Middle East? Meh. Sorry chief, you're the Paris Hilton of conflicts. Way passe. We got other shit that we're into now. Try to keep up....

Because in the new world order noted multilateral institution rules enjoyers Russia and China will approve Israel “liquidating” the Palestinians? Or did you mean something else?

Honestly can’t think of a new world order where the likely outcome is Palestinians getting better treatment.

A reminder that radical Palestinians tried to depose the king in the 1970s, before traveling around the middle east and starting wars elsewhere with their army of Mujahideen.

Omg a wild unaware propaganda feaster

I feel like that's less likely than an outright Israeli annexation of the West Bank. Isn't part of the reason they want much of it is because it provides a security buffer? Without it, at its narrowest points, Israel is less than 10 miles wide.

Also, Jordan used to occupy the West Bank, and it makes the border look goofy as hell. Though, I imagine it'd be a bit more bordergore-ish if it happened again, with Israel nicking off the settlements.

Cockroaches actually wouldn’t survive after a nuclear war either

Methylpalestinate Salts

What did he say that is not correct?

Instead of rebutting you just insult him like a 5 year old?

A. Netanyahu is the one that pulled out of Gaza so i doubt he's pro the settlements it's more his coalition parties thing

B. If he's ever gonna do it it's gonna be cuz he'll have no choice because the indictment above his head and a way to get rid of it

I'm sure it was because Jordan tried to ethnically cleanse them and it's Jordan fault /s

Nuttinyohoo sucks. Everyone close to sanity hates him.

I didn't know about these eventsvsi thanks. I am shocked at how ungrateful the PLO was and how even back then they kept shooting themselves in the foot.

Thank god. Unclean bastards

He is the gift that keeps on giving.

Other than the giant part of the population that voted for him, presumably? Extreme right-wing populations vote in extreme right-wing governments.

Ethnically cleanse?

Umm Jordan is a state run by Arab people. There's no ethnic difference between a Palestinian and a Jordanian outside some regional cultural things. There's lots of Palestinian people living normal lives in Jordan.

Being a "Palestinian" at all is a reference to a political term, the refugees of the 1948 war were referred to as "Arabs."

Also, your history is wrong -- Arafat attempted assassination before Black September occurred. Black September happened because Arafat tried to kill the king of Jordan twice, and the end result was a civil war that then led Arafat's fighters to travel across borders, eventually sparking war in Syria and in Lebanon.

Interesting history but if you think it's an ethnic cleanse, akin to genocide, or whatever Israel is doing now, it's not. Not at all.

That’s not really how it works.

He is simply the most high profile person that the majority of representatives hate the least

He's giving a warning -- conflict will continue with Netanyahu. He's had nearly 15 years of being in power concurrent with Netanyahu, to make the assessment.

He's also responding to Hamas propaganda -- any push to limit Palestinian access to their holy sites will push the conflict to war, which... is true. As that's what led to the war the last time and this is specifically what Hamas is pushing, as they continue to try and make a bid to kick out Fatah in the West Bank.

You know, i look at the west right now and im not sure that we are as ripe for democracy as we thought

The events this year in Jenin and the West Bank suggest there's definitely interest in such a thing, particularly with the fact that that group there is nearly areligious and not really an ideological faction but interested nonetheless in harming Israelis.

It has been a disastrous year for the Palestinians, which is saying something.

Well yes, it is. But the Palestinians also believe in some straight from the book horseshit about Islam's third holiest site in the Dome of the Rock, so we get to see eternal struggle between two groups claiming mandates from god until they decide enough's enough or make it so the other doesn't exist.

Truly fun discussion.

That's a bunch of nonsense. Israel prevents Jews from praying at the temple mount because it's is against rabbinical law. The law is there to appease right wing rabbis, not hamas.

I suppose there is some truth in that, but the voters can't really wash their hands of the choice.

Well, from an American perspective, this is sectarian horseshit that has little place in polite conversation, let alone governance.

In a just world, this would have been resolved as all sides died of shame.

They're surrounded by enemy states - I'm sure they don't want more on that list lmfao

history? sure - in our lifetimes? easily the devil.

Same thing as before

He doesn't need to appeal to "his base" he's not a politician, he's a monarch.

No giant part of the population voted for Bibi. His coalition - not party - only edged out Lapid's coalition by a few Knesset seats. His majority is slim and unstable, as it was in his recent governments.

This. The only difference is the Heshamites typically ruled in Iraq and the Hejaz and have nothing to do with this particular geographic region of the Middle East.

Under Netanyahu Israel became a highly develped country, per capita GDP grew 60% and unemployement was 3.4%. I don't think he deserves all the credit for that but it's ridiculous to act like people have to be insane or right wing extremists to vote for him. If Trump had put up even half those GDP growth numbers he would have won the last election by a landslide.

The nation of Jordan exists with a king because the British wanted a king there, so long as the King would grant BP some oil rights.

I'm not sure there's really a plethora of people who are pro-monarchy, but apparently it works fine enough day to day that the people don't revolt and the US/Brits don't attempt to put a democracy there.

It's like, very literal. The Hashemites cut a deal with the British as Britain sacked the former Ottoman Empire, leading to that state being a near colony.

I don't feel like anyone can vote for a right-wing extremist and then abdicate responsibility for it. We have been down that path before.

The people who voted for Trump were simply grossly misguided.

True but haven't we seen similar Arab leaders in that region who were equal in status get overthrown or deal with civil wars? Doubt he's scared of that, but he wants to seem like he cares about certain issues regardless. But Jordan isn't a threat to Israel anyway. We saw how the 6 day war went.

No, jordan was and still is a miserable police state. They were planning to drive out the PLO sooner or later, and since when do LGBT folks care for ruthless monarchs?

What's extreme right about Netanyahu?

It may not be the official agenda of the Israeli government for the time being. But many Israelis dream about the day that they do demolish it. The same Israelis that the government of Israel escorts atop the aqsa compound are the ones most excited for such destruction. Sooner or later some of them would try to raze it like in 1969

Lol. The fact that Israel (Netanyahu specifically) expands settlements is common knowledge and that you don't know that speaks to your knowledge on the matter. What is also common knowledge is that the areas the settlements are expanding to are not recognised by all the international community including Israel's closest allies. Just use Google, you can start with these:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1118122

https://press.un.org/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/israelpalestine-statement-spokesperson-settlement-expansion-and-situation-east-jerusalem_en

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/10/middleeast/israel-settlements-palestinians-intl/index.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

But of course when presented with facts you will either downvote or say it is fake news. Your mind is set regardless of indisputable evidence. Good luck and have a great day.

The Jewish religious disagreements are basically about entering certain places on the Mount, prayer has nothing to do with it and it's not Jews who commit or threaten violence in response. The Waqf wouldn't have the run of the place if these rules were enforced.

>bordergore

I don’t know which paradox game you are playing but I know it’s one of them

Ah yes, building settlements is now genocide.

Palestine is one of the world's fastest growing populations, you may call settlement building 'genocide', but it's almost as effective a form of genocide as charities. Settlement industries are overwhelmingly filled with Palestinians. About a third of all Palestinians work in Israeli settlements or industries.

So, sure, somehow building settlements and stimulating the Palestinian economy (though that isn't their goal, obviously) is genocide. I'm sure another 30 years of settlement building and unsustainable Palestinian population growth will fulfill the Zionist agenda... which is...?

It won't ever push it to war. If Jordan scraps the peace treaty, Israel will seize the Temple Mount from the Jordanian Waqf, and give it to the House of Saud in exchange for peace.

Hussein would need to be out of his mind to give Israel such a sweet casus belli to change the caretaker of Al-Aqsa and secure peace with Saudi Arabia, which is much more useful than peace with Jordan. Jordan is on the receiving end in every way, including their water crisis which is entirely saved by Israel.

left-coded? I have never heard this term, what do you mean by that?

you need to quit with the moonshine, or otherwise leave /r/worldnews for /r/conspiracy

I can find Americans that want to militarily conquer and annex the whole of Europe, that doesn't mean America or Americans want to conquer Europe.

He means war between Palestine and Israel, not war between Jordan and Israel. Jordan will never war with Israel again and you outlined the reasons why.

But you should add in that: war may also expose king of Jordan as being a national loser and fraud. He'll avoid war forever by result, there's nothing to gain.

Peace with Saudi Arabia probably exists under the table now. Only thing a treaty would do is announce it louder.

> it's is against rabbinical law.

I don't know where you heard it, but this is wrong. The Temple Mount is a large complex and the school of thought that the Holy of Holies could've been anywhere on it is fringe. There are countless places to worship that are considered safe.

More people think the Dome of the Rock is where the Holy of Holies stood (and that's controversial) than people who think it could've been anywhere. Israeli governments in the past have amplified these voices in order to convince mostly secular Jews who didn't know better to not go to the Temple Mount as tourists. Those who actually might be interested in praying understand the situation.

The incoming israeli police and public security minister is non other than ben gvir. Ben gvir used to have pictures of baruch Goldstein hanged around his house like some glorified saint. Go look up who Goldstein is and tell me what moonshine are the Israeli government on

Saddam Hussein? Ayatollah Khamenei? Vladimir Putin? Xin Jinping? Boris Johnson (as far as Brits perspective goes, destroying British influence and economy and possibly the union)? Donald Trump? King Saud? Gaddafi? 90% of African leaders? Anyone on either side in Myanmar?

Absolutely ridiculous

It gone over the line more time than Donnie at the bowling alley

It's been socially coded as a left-wing issue.

Various forms of nationalism and religion don't have a natural coding. Nationalism of all kinds is just as easily coded as a right-wing concept and Islam was, prior to 9/11, hotly contested in the US between left and right, whether it was right- or left-wing depended on whether you were emphasizing Muslims as outsiders or as staunch social conservatives.

Yup he's right up there with the big boys. The only difference being his country is small.

[removed]

Regardless subtract 50 years of secular sense and rationality from west, you'll get middle east.

Some politicians arbitrarily decided that these areas should be free of Jews again like Jordan made them once, so they treat any Israeli construction there as a horrible provocation injurious to the prospects of peace. Edit: Without actually caring about the prospects of peace, if that wasn't clear.

A. That was Sharon, but Netanyahu did freeze Israeli construction in Area C for ten months in return for negotiation.

Your comment to the following one seems to have been hidden.

How lucky you must be living in a country devoid of sectarian bullshit in political and societal conversation.

[removed]

You should try it sometime.

[removed]

huh? where? I don't seem to see anything that seems to be missing

edit: oh wow, it was, opened with a private browser. I still see it. Since no mod contacted me and I definitely didn't break any rules, guess I'll repost it.

Edit2: I think it's just impossible to reply to him? Anything I post doesn't appear when I look at it at a private window

/u/PublicFurryAccount are you alive?

[removed]

[removed]

You probably blocked someone or was blocked by someone up thread.

You're giving him too much credit. He's merely a populist grifter of a politician and a professional conman

[deleted]

How? I'm talking to you just fine here. It's only that particular comment of yours that is shadow-banned/hidden. I can reply to it (blocks stop you from making the comment at all, doesn't make it hidden.)

Netanyahu isn't considered extreme. It's his current coalition partners who are well known extremists. This is due to other big parties refusing to form a coalition with him (stating his ongoing criminal court cases)

Weird. You never know what’s going on.

Lol! What planet do you live in?

Well multiple things are at play. One, china’s growing interest in the region. Two, Israel interest in normalizing with saudi. Three, growing strength and power of newly formed armed groups within west bank that will eventually be too much for Israel to “manage”. Four, growing number of countries siding with the Palestinians. Five, running an apartheid state can only last so much. I can go on and on…

Don’t get why the downvotes. These are facts.

[removed]

He is late by about 30+ years, could have worked out if they didn't push for Oslo Accords.
The Gunpoint is pointless now because Jordan is in no position to annex territory or receive migrants by all metrics even if it wanted it.

source: from Jordan

They got support by other middle east leaders that wanted the king gone.

Netanyahu is not a right-wing extremist. Israel is a parliamentary democracy, so parties must create coalitions that encapsulate as many parties as needed to take a majority of parliament.

Netanyahu is being boycotted by his traditional partners, the center & center-right.His partners are the religious parties (which aren't politically right or left, they are socially right) and the far right parties (which are politically hard right and socially not necessarily left or right--usually left).

So the problem is Netanyahu is selling out the country by creating a government consisting entirely of political fringes of society (except the Arab parties) + Likud, which is a center-right party. As far as politics go, it is equivalent to the Democrats in policy. Parties to the left of him are simply much more left than the Democrats.

You think nethanyahu cares? He’s been pretty transparent in his intentions. Hell, he’s the one who violated Oslo by allowing settlements to start being built.

Subsequent Israeli governments have declared they regard annexing all of the West Bank as undesirable, a hassle and expense. Nethanyahu wants to effectively annex up to half of it and leave the rest to rot.

Nethanyahu was the one who first authorized settlements in the 90’s

[removed]

Building illegal settlements they had promised to not build in international treaties

He would have done it years ago, would have caused global intervention from the resulting crisis. He had 15 years, the palestinians aren't going anywhere it's their home.
Israel also found out it's cheaper to let in workers behind the wall than importing jews from africa and housing them, a lot of things changed inside Israel just the last decade.

He did do it almost thirty years ago when he authorized the first settlements. The intent is to effectively colonize large parts of the west bank to the point that once any formal negotiation over border lines happens the Palestinians and the rest of the world won’t have any real choice but to just accept a redrawn boundary.

> while slowly ethnically cleansing Palestinians

Building homes built on land purchased legally (though through shell companies that pretend to be Arabs, because it's illegal to sell land to Jews in Palestine) is just harder to make it sound villainous than shouting about "ethnic cleansing" over and over using the firehose of falsehood

You said "handover the west bank at gunpoint" in top comment.
It's the other way around as you came around, Oslo was done to push Jordan out, now Palestinians are Israel's barbeque.

> and give it to the House of Saud in exchange for peace

I've been following Israeli politics my whole life and never even considered that a possibility until you posted it, what a novel concept

Y’all ate so much propaganda you live in a different reality wow

That’s just really not true. At best it’s a misunderstanding of existing context born from ignorance

If someone looks at the sky and tells me it’s green I’m not gonna waste my fucking time educating them on wave lengths and photon interactions with components of our atmosphere. Because it takes an intentionally dishonest person to arrive at the conclusion in the first place, so they’re not going to simply rectify a misunderstanding.

You’re ignoring literal historical events and context and taking a skewed perspective at face value. Russia and the former Arab brotherhood have done an absolutely remarkable job of destroying the west’s common knowledge and agreement when it comes to history.

Jews get evicted by a third party -> Israel wants to populate and build infrastructure -> a bunch of morons think it’s somehow genocide. Apparently Jews have to take every punch laying down and if they try to return to previous lands it’s completely different and immoral. But a bunch of people deserve their land which they did not live on previously because the Iran-Russia block said so.

>which aren't politically right or left, they are socially right

So politically right then, because they're politicians.

You uhhh know Israel wanted to disengage from the conflict multiple times, tried to give land back to Jordan, literally pulled out of varying areas? When they did that the surrounding neighbors that tell idiots in the west that Israel is keeping the Palestinians down either barred Palestinian refugees or marked them as second class citizens without the privileges of certain professions and benefits. The other nations surrounding them want it to keep going as it means a preoccupied and weaker Israel. There’s a reason the other border states don’t want to create a porous border for the Palestinians and came up with the idea of right of return to a nation of Palestine that didn’t exist prior. It allows them to funnel weaponry, money, and propaganda to extend the conflict without taking on responsibilities. You think Egypt, Syria, Jordan, etc give a fuck about Palestinians? No. They have so much at their disposal and have had so many options to do literally any better than they did. Instead they stole the flames and throw Palestinian youth at the meat grinder.

Sounds like you don’t even know what the second intifada is ??

Sure buddy.

You are who you decide to become compatriots with. A man who empowers extremists is himself an extremist, as an extremist is merely anyone who acts to advance extremist goals.

All other definitions are sophistry.

Moreover, Netanyahu did not partner with extremists because his traditional partners boycotted him, he partnered with extremists because he was willing to do so in order to hold power.

The option to simply accept that he would be unable to form a governing coalition was always on the table, but when faced with a choice between embracing extremism and losing the ability to form government, he chose extremism.

I understand your comprehension of political ideologies is single-dimensional and tunneled, but please at least try to educate yourself.

You may start your reading here on socially left ideologies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism

And here's socially right ideologies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatism

As far as politically left or right, that means in reference to the state's notion of left/right politics. In Israel, politically, alternative left is reserved for jihadists and other anti-Zionists, the left is reserved for the Zionist peace-optimistic camp, the right is reserved for the Zionist peace-pessimistic camp, and the alternative right is reserved for the pro-settlements camp.

As you may guess--or not, considering your comment leaves little hopes in that respect--this spectrum of left to right in no way corresponds to the ideologies professed by social liberalism or conservatism. A different order is required in order to redistribute those camps across a social liberalism/conservatism spectrum. And, indeed, split them up into new camps completely, as there are communists in the same camp as the jihadists, which are very much incompatible ideologies.

Many 'left-wing' politicians are socially conservatist and many 'right-wing' politicians are socially liberal.

1. China doesn’t give a fuck about Palestinians. China will support whatever group gives it what it wants. Maybe that is the Palestinians, maybe it isn’t but China cares less about abstract human rights issues than the collective west. Maybe China has so far been supportive of Palestinians thus far but it seems implausible to me China “cares” about it one way or the other. I honestly believe the US political class cares more about Palestinians than the Chinese one.
2. Israel may want to normalize with Saudi, but it wants to exist more. Unless you are predicting Saudi leading an Arab block into a hegemonic position like the U.S. has now (and that idea is far fetched) it seems hard for me to believe this one changes things.
3. I would be surprised if Palestinian armed groups become powerful enough to meaningfully impede Israel’s freedom of action. Clearly it would be nice for them if they could do that, but it’s not as though Israel’s army is sclerotic in the same way Russia’s has turned out to be.
4. “Growing numbers of countries” - really I’ve seen a lot of liberal westerners get more upset about the treatment of Palestine. I’m honestly not aware of a different change in support. What are you referring to?
5. For the sake of discussion, let’s agree Israel is an apartheid state notwithstanding the fact there is a Palestinian party in Israel and Israeli citizen Palestinians can vote. What makes that inherently unstable? In South Africa’s case it was a humanitarian motivated set of sanctions, which I believe were led by the collective west as far as I can tell. In this new world order you have referenced without defining it, do you expect China to embargo Israel? As discussed that seems unlikely to me.

You know Jordan could have just taken the West Bank back? But they don’t want refugees they just want the status quo. You know Egypt could VASTLY do so much more as a bordering state given the absence of security risk… except they keep the border insultingly locked and tell everyone it’s the jews. The Palestinians’ other regional neighbors do not give a flying fuck about them and are very aware of how little sense the claim to Israel’s land makes. But if it gets Palestinians to kill themselves trying to kill Israelites then that’s a win for them because it further strains Israel’s resources as well as international image.

I genuinely do not understand how people can come to such strong opinions and conclusions without taking the time to read up on the matter when what’s at stake is literal human lives and suffering. What do you want Israel to do? Their offer for separate states was rejected, they pulled out and let their guard down which was met with the second intifada, and they have asked Jordan to literally take some of the area to help. The Palestinians neighbors that they are told are their brothers shut them in and give them weapons and funding under the condition that they attack Israel. It’s just sad

None of these are tangible explanations in the sense that there are worthwhile historical parallels to compare them to. You hate the west and Jews and are grasping at thin air for more copium. Chinese interest? Good god the Palestinians are fucked if China gains a stronghold in the area. They’re literally ethnically cleansing their Muslim population as we speak.

“Yo someone sold me this ima build a house”

“That’s illegal”

Alright pal

[removed]

“Jordan’s king” would have been a lot less confusing of a title and wouldn’t have made me think Michael Jordan was wading into international politics.

Well, the fact that you thought he's going to prison is the outcome of mind engineering your media's well producing.

He's on trial. He's not convicted (yet, or not at all we'll know in years), the cases against him are slowly falling apart

I am not ignoring anything. He said something and I responded with facts. These are not opinions, they are facts. Just saying something did not happen does not erase it from history unfortunately.

What you mention above about taking it lying down is your opinion. I am not giving my opinion but responding to him with facts. Simple.

EUIV, but I wanna get into HoI4, and the TNO mod.

He chose to save his own arse in court by seizing power (democratically). He's an opportunist. He lacks any extremist ideal to be considered one. He's a grifter. A common thief

The PLO seems to play the role of a useful fool more than anything. Useful to Israel, that is.

Honestly outright annexation might be coming. It feels like international support for a two state solution has all but vanished.