Data Source: Albert Heijn's website (ah.nl)
Tools used: Python to scrape and analyze the data; PowerPoint to manually create the table in the picture

Full video can be found at: https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak

It also includes the top cheapest sources of protein for foods with:

• at least 40% protein
• at least 20% protein and at most 20% carbs
• no restrictions on macros

Excellent info, especially with the multiple categories. Great work.

Thank you!

Great info!

I'll just add, anyone serious about dieting should look into the different forms of macronutrients and how they can affect you. I usually recommend bodybuilding forums/websites, even if you're not into lifting weights, as that's where you'll find a lot of dedicated science and information while avoiding a lot of the pseudoscience designed to strip you of more money than body fat. Don't get me wrong, that's still very much prevalent. But it tends to have a lot more information:bullshit ratio than websites dedicated to dieting.

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I'd like to see the data if it took into account calories. So calories per gram of protein. A lot of cheap and plant based options come with a high calorie count.

Neat! I’d like to see a 2d chart with price per 100g protein versus % protein by weight.
Split peas would still reign, but would divide the breads and legumes.

Civilization was mostly built on grains and legumes. You can get a large amount of nutrients just from whole brown rice and lentils, for example.

I'm very impressed. If you haven't, you should post to /Eatcheap and /Frugal. I think that you make a very good case through the data that there are real benefits for most of us to replace meat with plant products, even if not completely. It is a very good complement to those who try to make ethical or environmental appeals, and might be more effective for many who watch your video.

You can see it in the video :)

https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak

timestamp 6:05

Oh I meant % protein by net weight, not by calorie. It would be similar, I’m sure, but like getting 200g of protein from red lentils requires <900g of lentils, but 200g of protein from sliced bread would require eating nearly a kilo and a half of bread.

Those Brits are a step ahead with their Beans On Toast.

Very handy, might wanna repost that in r/thenetherlands if I were you.

Wellicht nog meer vergelijkingen? Op basis van vitaminen, bijvoorbeeld?

Thank you very much for the suggestion! I will check them out

great video, really well laid out analysis and fantastic editing/animations. You deserve more than 44 subscribers!

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Sorry, but before i watch video wanted to clarify: did you take into account protein quality? Not all protein is equal in foods, selecting highest per 100g foods wont mean you will get that amount if quality is low

Hi, protein quality was out of scope for this video (there was no available data for that)

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That video, and this analysis in general, is perhaps the highest quality piece of content I've ever seen on this subreddit. To anyone reading this, please take a moment to consider if this post is worth upvoting. Even if you're someone who doesn't normally upvote or downvote posts, I'd urge you to do it this time around. It deserves it.

I see, dont take my critisim personally- i dont think thats a useful video. Whats the point of knowing most protein efficency per money spent if as end result that efficency doesnt translate to protein your body actually uses.

And if you allow me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestible_Indispensable_Amino_Acid_ScoreThats the start point for usefulness of proteins

Nice, I considered do something similar for comparing product prices. How did you build your dataset?

Just to say I really appreciate your comment! Thanks :)

The video explains it, but I scraped the data from the supermarket's website. The code is open source, you can find the link in the youtube video description

Worth noting that lentils etc would need to be cooked and would be much higher in weight similar to rice because of all the water they would absorb, So while price is accurate I think they would be closer to 20g protein per 200-300 grams of cooked lentils.

As an AH-regular and with a protein focused diet this is extremely useful, thanks!

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Liked and subscribed. Great work!

Peas are amazing. I could eat split pea soup once a week easy.

I’d like to see an amino acids profile metric. Foods that contain all nine essential amino acids tend to be animal protein.

You can get them all from a vegan diet, but you’ll be eating considerably more and thus spending more.

I will for the 900th time state my opinion that neither vegan or animal inclusive diets are the solution to mitigating our food consumption energy impact; getting people to only eat what they need is; people tend to consume far more calories in a day than they need and most of them aren’t even aware of this.

But hey, pretending that you’re having a positive impact is fun.

Edit: Holy hell. Alright, I’m just gonna stick to my 1000cal-less-than-the-avg-American-diet (remember kids, calories are energy, and that energy comes from somewhere) and leave you all to your totally helpful virtual soap boxes.

Top 10 foods SWOLE VEGANS dont want you to know about!!!

Would be interesting to have a protein-quality column, given that only a percent of plant-based proteins are absorbed compared to protein from animals.

so you want to see calorie density, because the distribution of macro calories is with on the right

quality is also a very misleading brand for what it actually means quality refers to the similarity of the acid competition, which in a balanced diet is absolutely irrelevant, because your body is perfectly capable to convert one to another

Funfact: Yellow peasoup is what made the Swedish armies able to do mobile warfare against russia and the catholics during the 30year war. Every third Swedish male died in the wars, but ever since (over 200 years) the Swedish military has always served yellow-peasoup on Thursdays. As well as pancakes in later centuries.

Thank you both for the hints!

It's so good andso rich. Good Dutch split pea soup contains like three different types of meat. Let it cool in a bowl, flip it, and if you manage to get it out it will retain its shape fully.

And on the side we tend to eat rye bread topped with bacon...

Granted there are vegetarian options nowadays. But TIL those will still be protein rich thanks to the peas!

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Thank you!

The dank bread mix caught my eye.

Yeah, I know it’s “dark”.

from what i have seen briefly, top products in list of the video do not make a good balanced diet, but i could be wrong.

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I wonder where large packages of pressed soy beans/texturized soy/what ever you call it would end up ranking.

Iirc they typically have nearly 50% protein and get pretty affordable the more you buy at once. I think I've seen offers for 5kg at 5€/kg. Which would put them somewhere near the top.

But obviously you won't find 5kg packages in a normal store but only online.

Wow ! In the US it's more soupy. Made with chicken broth and cubed ham. A dab of sour cream in the soup bowl and a side of sourdough bread and butter is always good.

I always sneak a hunk of butter in the pan near the end for good measure.

This data makes sense. I was blown away when I discovered that the average hotdog has less protein than a slice of the cheap bread I typically buy from Walmart.

nice!

plz continue on the topic of food :D

really enjoyed your style!

Now you just need to categorize them by DIAAS score to get the best protein for money.

Shame none of them are high quality.

Don't post on eatcheapandhealthy because they ban you if you suggest steak is t cheap

The perfect combination of foods are legumes with grains. This gives you a higher bioavailability than meat. All over the world people combine lentils with grains.

It's because the DIAAS is completely useless https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33409931/

Bioavailability of foods can't be considered per food be außer humans eat more than one thing. Combining lentils with grains for example gives you a higher bioavailability than meat.

That's not how this works. We don't absorb protein. We take protein and break it down into amino acids. Amino acids are the same no matter the source. What matters is the distribution of amino acids in food. Combining grains and lentils for example gives you a better bioavailability than meat. There is no such thing as protein quality. We use amino acids and they are all the same.

Ah i was zoomed in on my screen and was hoping the whole wheat tiger bread was gonna be the one that wasn't vegan

Out of curiosity, how far down do you have to go to find the first all-meat protein source, like fish fillets or ground beef? Eggs?

Any chance you've got data for cheapest source of proteins with at least 20% protein and at most 20% carbs by percent of total weight rather than percent of total calories? I usually stick to meat and fish for my protein because it has a decent amount of protein, some fat and a lot of water so it's not too many calories per meal with good protein intake. Vegetable proteins often come with a lot of either carbs, fats, or both.

How about by amount of bioavailable protein?

So long as you get your protein from multiple sources (brown bread and beans, or peas and rice for example) you'll be fine in terms of "protein quality"

I was surprised by eggs- they are just 10% protein by weight. An average adult would need a dozen per day for protein.

Doing the Lord's work. Now let's do Wal-Mart.

They won't be swole if they're eating this stuff for protein.

Sure, you get protein, and sure, it's cheap, but you also get a ton of CALORIES.

That's the nice thing about "meat" as a protein source. For the amount of protein you get, you get relatively few calories.

Certainly a lot less than if you ate straight yellow split peas for the same amount of protein.

Me too :). Just finished some as a matter of fact

I really wish I could find a good source for this, all I know is animal foods have more bioavailable nutrients than plants in general

Fake-Tempura seitan jerky, all made from flour and some oil. Add salt and spices at your own likes.

Just made this halfways up, but going to cook it and try for myself.

Split peas: they're better than sliced bread.

Chicken breasts are on sale for $30 for 4kg CAD. That’s probably cheaper than most of those items.

Isn't their also a cost to prepare/cook most of the items?

Sounds deliciously high in protein, yummy!

If you do go down the road of checking bodybuilding forums, I highly recommend starting with this thread on the bodybuilding.com forums where a bunch of bodybuilders get into a heated argument about how many days are in a week.

Is bread subsidized? Surprised it's cheaper than flour. The cheapest loaf of sliced bread at my grocery store in the US is around 500g and costs more than a 2.2kg bag of white flour (and just a bit less than a bag of whole wheat flour).

Amazing, like a little tribute to a meal that helped you out 😊

This graph is about cheap protein, not dense protein. Look up wheat gluten (22 g protein per 100 calories) or even soy curls (lower at 10 g per 100 calories, but still 40% from protein). The vegan hot dogs in my fridge have more protein per calorie than chicken.

It’s entirely possible to be swole, plant based, and whole food based

Source: frequent gym goer who really likes his legumes

Yeah that's why there's all those fat vegans running around.

The one factor this video is missing is the volume of food required to be consumed to get your 200g of protein. You are not likely to consume 2KG of yogurt to get your daily 200g of protein.

The yellow highlight on 20% protein reminded me of a certain website.😊

I love it but my guts… Well, you’re going to be smelling them.

Protein quality and processing matters. Gluten is still not considered perfectly safe if aswell you read the literature.

Plant proteins don’t have complete amino acid profiles, so it is important to research which vegan protein source contains what animo acids and combine sources accordingly.

All protein isn't equal, as not all components of food are bioavailable, and protein is broken down into amino acids.

I was planning on just watching a bit just to get the main info, but ended up watching the whole video. The data is so well organized, and the animations are really great. I'd have been interested to see the data on 30% or higher protein, I do imagine there might still have been a lot of vegan products present, for things like beans.

Please share the medical journal sources that explain why it's not perfectly safe. I've been eating lots of seitan over the last 25 years and, while I feel great, I may be racing to an early grave and not realize it! My health depends on your insights!

Also eager to learn why, contrary to every reputable nutritionist's input, I can't actually get high quality and complete protein through a diverse diet containing beans, legumes, grains, and vegetables. Must be a wild conspiracy in the medical community.

Weirdest thing I've seen in years. Data on bread protein. Boring, I'll stick to beans and chicken.

Source? Plant protein are less efficient as energy source but they are complete regarding necessary amino acids. Maybe you mean some modified amino acids which are not including in the indications for a healthy diet.

I had the idea to create an overview like this for ages, but i have no coding knowledge and didnt wanna get all the data manually. This is great, looking forward to more content!

> You are not likely to consume 2KG of yogurt to get your daily 200g of protein.

Watch me.

No seriously, I eat 500g of low fat plain yoghurt with whey protein powder a day and might be upping that even. Tastes good, is filling, low calories and high in protein.

But you also don't need 200g of protein unless you're already quite the unit. Around 150 will do and is probably even more than necessary for most beginner to intermediate lifters.

timestamp 3:56: https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak

Here you can see those numbers for some meats and eggs. However, I only showed those numbers for ranking of the cheapest source of protein without any restrictions on minimum protein percentage

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I did not make that table, but I shared the data with all the necessary fields to make that visualization. If you're comfortable with working with CSV files, you can find the data here: https://memeabledata.simple.ink/explore-data-96852e2f7c504e94925aa57c76987c8e

In this supermarket, chicken breast cost 9.49 EUR per 800g. In the end that's a price of 4.75 EUR per 100g of protein

Timestamp 4:01 - https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak?t=241

I dont like your tone, lady. I am open to rational discussion, but Your condescending tone is a warning that I will be wasting my time.

As far as I am concerned, You can get enough complete protein to live on a vegan diet. But I was referring to the vegan sausage specifically. To explain simply: the Amino acid profile is not as balanced as with meat, as atleast one amino acid (depending on plant it is derived from) is lacking compared to the rest. But still, I really wanna see the macros on your sausage; 'more protein per energy than chicken' seems really good, considering chicken breast is around a 80 protein/20 fat/0 carbs split already! But even in this case, from a nutrition standpoint, I'd stick to chicken breast, due to the amount of processing the sausage probably went through.

I dont trust nutritionists, especially not the publically outspoken ones. Nutritional science has a long history of public misinformation to the point of deception, lobbying and conflict of interest. I try to only rely on the information put out there by primary papers, whose methodology I find sound after reading them (so overwhelmingly no epidemiological studies to begin with) and find to have no conflict of interest in terms of funding especially (which might be utopian).

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Good job with the pornhub color scheme.

I was specifically speaking in the context of muscle protein synthesis, not the bare minimum required to be healthy. The daily required amount is not enough to become “swole”, this can be seen in the daily value recommendation of 50g, anyone who lifts can tell you that is not enough. I am not claiming it to be impossible to be swole and vegan but you need to combine protein sources to get all amino acids required for muscle protein synthesis. There is a reason many popular vegan protein powders are a combination of sources (pea and rice normally). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723444/

Did you take into account that some proteins are more valuable than others?

Impressive work Luis, well done!

Some plant proteins do have a complete amino acid profile (soy, quinoa, buckwheat, hemp seeds, etc.), but for the ones that don't it's not that complicated getting sufficient quantities of all amino acids from plant foods. All plant foods contain all essential amino acids, but often in a lower proportion than one's dietary requirements (hence the 'incomplete' classification) - grains tend to have lysine as a limiting amino acid, while for beans it's methionine, so a grain + legume combination will get you a good amino acid profile.

Also copying a previous comment on bioavailability and quality of plant proteins:

> Plant protein sources do typically have lower PDCAAS and DIAAS scores, which is where the "low bioavailability" idea comes from, but this difference is almost entirely due to limiting amino acids rather than them not being digestible or absorbed. (Note that limiting amino acids does not mean the essential amino acid is not present, all plant foods contain all amino acids, it just means that the amino acid is present in a lower proportion than a person's dietary requirements.) If you're eating a variety of plant protein sources (literally just more than one really; something like rice and beans has a perfect or near-perfect PDCAAS score, for example) then this really shouldn't be an issue for you.

> In addition, when you look at the data on the outcome we're interested in (muscle mass gain) rather than getting bogged down in amino acid composition, postprandial muscle protein synthesis, measures of fecal/ileal digestibility, etc. plant proteins appear to be non-inferior to animal protein sources. This randomised controlled trial compared omnivores supplementing with whey protein to vegans supplementing with soy protein powder and found that when they were matched for protein (1.6 g/kg/day) and underwent resistance training, there was no difference in the improvements of muscle mass or strength.

> This review is really interesting and summarises the plant protein quality issue, and also covers the environmental aspects of different protein sources. Also this review covering the broader health and environmental issues of animal vs. plant proteins.

What are your thoughts on trials like this one that find when you look at the protein-related outcome we presumably care most about, muscle growth and strength, there are no significant differences between vegans and omnivores undergoing resistance training when matched for protein?

Oh my god, a title that asks a question, answered in the first millisecond of the video!? Heaven!

I don’t think working out twice a week for 12 weeks is enough to note any real difference in your one rep max leg press. I’d be interested to see a longer form study with a workout regime designed for muscle growth.

Do you happen to have a solid but accessible source on this? There's just sooooo much content on nutrition out there with all degrees of reliability and no easy way to filter the good from the absolutely made up

Great stuff! But vegan proteins are low quality as in they don't have high concentration of the important Amino acids that our body uses for muscle growth.

See other comment on this post dealing with the protein quality issue of plant-based proteins.

Do you have the same dataset but for meat?

I don't have a dataset filtered on meat only products. However, meat is part of the ranking for the scenario with at least 20% protein and at most 20% carbs:

timestamp 9:09 - https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak?t=549

More evidence to support that veganism doesn’t require privilege.

You are correct about the existence of complete plant proteins. There are studies that show an advantage in lean muscle mass gains for groups that consume animal based proteins https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7926405/#!po=29.1667

I definitely believe it is possible to gain significant lean mass on a plant based diet, it just requires more effort than an omnivorous diet in my opinion. I would be open to seeing studies that challenge the one I have sourced but I am paywalled from the one you have linked.

My original comment was just a warning to combine your plant protein sources wisely to achieve the best results. I did not mean for that to get lost in translation.

> Foods that contain all nine essential amino acids tend to be animal protein.

It's good that you can eat more than one one food per day then. Legitimately, what's the point of mentioning this when the simple combination of legume/vegetable and grain/nut/seed has all nine essential amino acids.

> You can get them all from a vegan diet, but you’ll be eating considerably more and thus spending more.

Yep, legume+grain is certainly going to cost more than meat.

The thickness in european traditional pea soups often comes from adding pork feet, pork tail or some other off-cut with a lot of gelatin. At least in Germany, probably also in the Netherlands.

Definitely! Adding bone makes it stiff when cooled down.

Way to funny

More that it's basically impossible to eat too many calories from vegetables.

That also makes it difficult to hit high protein goals though.

>Gluten is still not considered perfectly safe if aswell you read the literature.

trololololo?

If you don't consider gluten perfectly safe, you'd also have to not consider water perfectly safe.

I would have thought canned tuna would be there. Or peanut butter.

It is literally an ongoing scientific debate and I recommend actually reading the literature before stating 'facts' in such a tone.

When the downvoters don't even know why they are downvoting...

YOU! Yeah you. Downvoter. Stop it. You're a dumb lemming.

My point is that the leucine content generally is lower in plants and that's a limiting factor. Vegetables have a less ideal amino acid profile. As long as you get enough leucine you're good when it comes to muscle building.

Regarding the study you linked: if you look closer at the nutrient composition the protein intake and amino acid intake is roughly equal between the groups but the vegan group has a higher carb intake, and as we age we all become more or less carb intolerant and that's one of many drawbacks of a pure vegan diet. Other drawbacks are lack of micro nutrients that need to be taken through supplements unless extreme care is taken, and for practical reasons it's not easy to achieve compared with an omnivore diet.

Hehehe.....I got some free protein for ya....hehehe

It's donker

Peanut butter is a fat source, not a protein source. The calories from protein are like 12-15% but it's 70-ish percent fat.

now combine it with data for the specific amino acids to find the product with the cheapest protein and a complete amino acid profile

Wow you guys are getting hosed on chicken.

lots of gluten can lead to leaky gut

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This would be amazing if you could make it interactive with your own dietary constraints to sort the foods.

For instance, I'd like to get 125g of protein per day in a 2000 calorie diet, what foods fall in to that ratio and worth them by price.

Where were products like protein powders on the list?

I love this. I would be interested in seeing a second group underneath the first that benchmarks what typical meats cost. Like just how far from chicken or beef are we on this list?

You can get the data form the link in the video description (as a csv file, which you can open in excel/sheets and then filter+sort, it's pretty easy). I did so for your question and after google translate:

Valle del sole Black eye beans

Valle del sole Green lentils

Conimex Kecap manis

Valle del sole Red kidney beans

Valle del sole Kievite beans

Valle del sole Dark green lentils

Valle del sole Black beans

AH Kidney beans

De Zaanse Hoeve Low-fat stirred yoghurt

De Zaanse Hoeve Low-fat cottage cheese

Valle del sole Black mung split beans

Valle del sole Large Lima Beans - Giant bread beans

AH Organic Yellow split lentils

Valle del sole Green lentils

AH High-fiber carbohydrate multi-seeds half

De Zaanse Hoeve Low-fat cottage cheese

AH Organic Kidney Beans

AH Skinny French cottage cheese

AH White beans

AH Organic Vegan tofu natural

So yeah beans, lentils, low-fat yogurts, tofu. Prices per 100g of protein go up fairly steadily along this list, starting at 1.35 and up to 2.60EUR. Prices per 1000kcal are mostly 1-2EUR for the plants, with the dairy products closer to 3-4.

Armed with this data you can put vital wheat gluten in AP flour and make some great hamburgers that are 33% TVP and you have yourself a decently protein heavy delicious burger that are very cheap and not as terrible for you.

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I thought about it, but I decided not spend the time working on it, at least for now. The workaround to explore the CSV file yourself at: https://memeabledata.simple.ink/explore-data-96852e2f7c504e94925aa57c76987c8e

If you open the file on google sheets, add filters and filter the table based on your needs, that should do the trick!

Whey had a price per 100g of protein ranging from 5.65 to 7.00 EUR

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I believe you're looking at the wrong table.

at least 20% protein and at most 20% carbs -> timestamp 9:11

https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak?t=551

Good point there I missed about fat content. Thanks.

Not by weight, by calorie. Plus I'm not sure that's true. It doesn't have nearly any carbs and will usually have near even grams of fat to protein, like 5g of fat and 6g of protein. Since there are 9 calories per gram of fat and 4 calories per gram of protein that means of the about 70 calories 35% of them are protein.

But yes, an egg will have 6-8g of protein so to get 100g you'd need to eat over a dozen.

If by swole you mean gargantuanly fat, then sure.

There actually are quite a few. A huge amount of vegan food is highly processed trash, and things like onion rings are vegan.

The scrawny grey vegan comes from the fact that if you do eat mostly plants and don't pile on things like oils it's very difficult to get both high protein and balanced nutrition while also getting a good amount of calories, so they end up looking malnourished. This could mostly be corrected with some resistance training and a daily vegan blend protein powder with some oils in the foods though.

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Look how you cant be swole with a vegan diet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian

mmm, that looks good. l’ll have the Abdij broodmix donker please.

In the video you can see this at timestamp 4:09 https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak?t=249

Note: This is only shown for the ranking with no restrictions on macronutrients (no limit of min 20% protein)

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could you share a recipe please

Great video!

It looks like you're comparing dry mass of grains to wet mass of meat in the video. I assume masses are based on wet weight for both vegetables and meat? I think it's important to consider that while the cost per 100 g might be lower for vegan sources, the sheer amount of the product you'd need to consume to obtain the same amount of protein as meat sources is much higher.

For example, eating 1000 g of spinach for 20 g of protein makes it an incredibly inefficient and effectively impossible source of protein. Aiming for 100 g of protein per day, you'd need to eat 5 kg of spinach, which would be both unpleasant and difficult for most! That one doesn't work out as a great value either, as this would cost you 5.45€.

In comparison, wheat flour is very cheap, but since it comes as a dry good you'd need to add at least 50% of the mass of flour as water to make it consumable (e.g. as bread). That effectively reduces the amount of protein (and calories) consumed by 33%. Still a good value, but you'd need to consume 1363 g of bread to meet that need. Reasonable. However, that would amount to 3420 kCal of calories to consume 100 g of protein, far above the average daily caloric need for most. Additionally, that would mean you'd be missing out on many nutrients necessary from other foods.

Split peas certainly come out better. Most recipes seem to call for a 1.5:1 ratio of water to peas by volume, which works out to 2.8:1 ratio by mass. Assuming some loss to evaporation, let's say maybe 2:1. For 100 g of protein, you'd then need to eat ~1000 g of wet peas. Doable, though that's a lot of peas! Better be prepared for that much fibre. That adds up to 1955 kCal, which is roughly the daily caloric need for the average person. Doesn't leave a lot of room for additional stuff. If you reduce the amount of peas to accommodate other things, you will need to lower your protein intake. Which is fine for most people, where 60-80 g of protein is around the target intake amount.

Sounds like peas are a real winner for the balance of protein and calories. I suppose that's why they're such a popular food item globally, especially since they can be grown in quantity and are easy to dry, store, and prepare.

But our chicken doesn't get hosed with chlorine.

What was the price of eggs?

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3.60 EUR/100g protein

Price for eggs and meat can be found at timestamp 4:09: https://youtu.be/mJs8L3oSmak?t=249

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I love that a thread from 2008 is still up in all its stupid glory in the year 2023. Warms my heart.

It can if that's a thing your body does! If that's how your body reacts to gluten you shouldn't eat too much. But if your body doesn't have that reaction, there's no problem. You might as well tell everyone to avoid strawberries because some people are allergic to strawberries.

Are you saying the vegan obesity rate is the same as the omnivore obesity rate?

Of the 20+ vegans I know, the ones that are overweight or scrawny were already that way before they turned vegan. The rest of us are energetic, fit, and have plenty of muscle tone. I feel like if I were unhealthy, a doctor would have said something to me about it some time over the last 25 years (especially during pregnancy).

I'm not sure how much protein you think a person needs to eat every day to maintain a healthy (non body builder) muscle weight. But the number of vegan body builders demonstrates you can get ripped on plants if you put your mind to it.

If you have a high protein goal for the sake of getting jacked, you're going to need a specialized diet anyway, regardless of whether you eat meat. Body builders aren't going to TGI Fridays and eating pizza like a regular American omnivore.

No, I said nothing even close to your delusional rant.

Feeding a chicken a diet of processed corn product and antibiotics: Not processed, totally natural. Mushing a bunch of plants together in a tube shape: Disgustingly processed, inherently unhealthy.

Plant sausage is a bit salty, so it's a good thing no vegan sits around just eating fake sausage.

Other than soy, no one plant protein has all 9 amino acids that the body needs from food. That's why the first rule of a vegan diet is "get protein from multiple sources."

Please share these primary sources that demonstrate the points you're trying to make about a plant-based diet being unhealthy.

>lean muscle mass gains for groups that consume animal based proteins

The difference in the study you linked is very small, to the extent that it is only really relevant if you're a professional bodybuilder. The average gym goer won't see much of a difference. If they're really worried about it, they could supplement their diet with protein powder (though it won't be necessary).

Its much more important that you have an optimal training regimen than worrying about where your protein comes from.

Cool but really sending the wrong message. Half the list is bread lol.

Cheap ain’t healthy.

I don't think Haricot beans are that high if I'm correct though

Calorie surplus is necessary for muscle gain. If you're starving your body of calories, you body will utilize other sources of energy within your body when exercising (i.e. fat and muscle)

>Feeding a chicken a diet of processed corn product and antibiotics: Not processed, totally natural. Mushing a bunch of plants together in a tube shape: Disgustingly processed, inherently unhealthy.

Thats why you buy organic chicken. Double points if you get your protein from all kinds of sources, not just animals. If your sausage actually only contains a few things without added sugar or seed oils or additives, that would be great. The backside won’t tell you about how it is processing other than that though. If it really has better macros than chicken ontop of that, then I would be throroughly amazed.

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>Plant sausage is a bit salty, so it's a good thing no vegan sits around just eating fake sausage. Other than soy, no one plant protein has all 9 amino acids that the body needs from food.

Afaik quinoa is more complete than soy, which is limited in sulphur containing amino acids. Though not exactly relevant if combined with other sources.

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>That's why the first rule of a vegan diet is "get protein from multiple sources."

I know; I somewhat stated this myself in my last comment. Yet it is still far easier to get the things You need from an omnivore diet.

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>Please share these primary sources that demonstrate the points you're trying to make about a plant-based diet being unhealthy.

I have never claimed this. Let me reiterate yet another time: I was solely referring to my opinion that highly processed vegan replacement products are not the ideal food (see above). To add: usually the burden of proof lies with the one challenging the status quo. The status quo for nutrition science is that we know absolutely nothing other than a few select things. Even if I wanted to, I cannot fully disprove a plant-based diet being healthy as much as you cannot prove it is healthy as of right now. Same goes for any other diet. Nutrition science is inherently extremely complex as variables are plenty and longterm study/protocol adherence is bad. We just are not there yet and claiming anything else is just an ideology at this point.

okay but this is a table

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It's like 2x more, not 10x, right? Or am I doing the exchanges and stuff wrong?

The point isn't to compare one specific product to one specific product; you compare a holistic diet with a holistic diet. If I got 50%+ of my protein from seitan sausage, cautioning against processed foods might be relevant, but nobody actually eats that way. (Also, what harm does physically processing foods in machines actually do? Adding salt in the factory and running it through an extruder is no worse than adding salt at home.)

What percent of the chicken an omnivore eats is organic? Do people who say "I only eat organic chicken and beef from my uncle's special farm" never eat at restaurants or friends' houses? Never buy TV dinners? Omnivores seem to enjoy comparing the best theoretical meat-based diet with the worst theoretical plant-based diet, regardless of how people actually eat.

You kicked off this thread with "Gluten is still not considered perfectly safe if as well you read the literature," and are now not providing links to the literature that you told me to read. I'm asking for evidence that gluten is "not safe."

This is a well-put synopsis. Whenever I'm carousing these sort of posts, I'm blown away by the emotional connection people form with their diet. It's by no means a new phenomenon; most ancient cultures literally worshipped what they ate.

Although meat is delicious, it is incredibly inefficient. If we put more effort into developing and promoting vegetarian sources of protein, all the resources waisted on livestock could be put to better use.

This recipe looks good:

https://www.thespruceeats.com/traditional-dutch-split-pea-soup-1129011

Oh thank you so much!

For every ex strongman or muscleman you list with a vegan diet I can list 2 dozen more with an omnivore diet.

Wheat gluten is not edible by itself. I don't see anyone out there chugging powdered wheat gluten.

So go ahead and make it into something even remotely edible, then we'll talk about protein to calories split.

So you are telling me there are generally more meat eaters then vegans? Crazy