Submitted by _koopatroopa_ t3_z6850r in pittsburgh
Comments
mmphoto412 t1_iy03py7 wrote
“….We have 11 local businesses today”. Proceeds to name Floyd Mayweather boxing as a local business 😂😂
CasualFriday11 t1_iy170yk wrote
Ah yes, my favorite Local Owned business: Fine Wine and Good Spirits Premium Collection
citylifeadventures t1_iy01itv wrote
Oh let me guess - a Starbucks?! 🙄🙄🙄 Fits in perfectly with the Chipotle.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy01i51 wrote
There is a chain beer place coming soon. 😑
slayhern t1_iy0hbgq wrote
This is their first location outside of the DMV. Voodoo is more of a chain than them IMO.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy0lvs7 wrote
Voodoo isn’t moving to the terminal.
i_NaTaN t1_iy0dn2d wrote
Aslin? Wouldn't really call them a chain. Also, they make some of the best beers I've had
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy0lubq wrote
Pittsburgh has a great beer scene. I’d rather a local place be able to open a second location then a DC beer company come in.
i_NaTaN t1_iy0nk0j wrote
Still, compared to Chipotle and other actual chains, this is probably the best place they're adding.
floppgh t1_iy0mtr4 wrote
Just had aslin yesterday in dc not to impressive .
i_NaTaN t1_iy0np0z wrote
Ok well, what did you get? Their overall ratings would disagree with you because they are, in fact, impressive..
LazyBoi0736 t1_iy1sqma wrote
Primo hoagies is absolutely ass
Ok_Plane6153 t1_iy26xjw wrote
Went there once in August. Worst hoagie I ever had.
apackollamas t1_iy3gppu wrote
I disagree. I like their diablos. Little too much bread, but otherwise delicious.
Difficult-Ad-52 t1_iy35djt wrote
Thank you for saving me from my own curiosity. Looked like a decent setup walking past but hadn’t tried yet.
OwlEmoji t1_iy24dyb wrote
Have to shout out Hungry Cowgirl that opened there as well and it’s 2x the portions and flavor for 1/2 the price
Beeblebrox237 t1_iy1rfqs wrote
While I agree that we should support local businesses I have to confess that I've tried Peppis a few times now and have never enjoyed it, but I thought Primo was okay for the price.
timesuck t1_ixzybyt wrote
The Terminal sucks. It is our very own SoDoSoPa, bland boomer bait designed to lure pearl-clutching suburbanites into the city three times a year.
McCaffery lied about their plan and pulled the rug out from under from a purposefully ignorant Peduto administration and we ended up with a pair of big red lips outside of a Chipotle instead of a lively and sustainable community market.
But sure, Mayweather Wife Beater Boxing is a “local” business lmao whatever fuck them all
MikMcD1977 t1_ixzzyrx wrote
SoDoSoPa reference is killing me because this exactly what I said when construction began in the town home “community” located behind it. You are completely correct it is massively underwhelming.
w0jty t1_iy087ew wrote
Nailed it.
Been to many cities with awesome meatpacking/warehouse/etc parts of town with great industrial vibes and cool shops.
Was REALLY hoping for that here as the housing density has grown by leaps and bounds.
I’ll be curious if the suburbanites keep it afloat, or if all these chains will sink. I’ll punt my optimism that maybe we can get more local and interesting shops/restaurants 5 years out.
pAul2437 t1_iy0jzai wrote
These are right in line with the interests of the folks living in the bland apartments down there.
ffffff00000066ff33 t1_iy12sc7 wrote
Nothing like a chipotle to lure the suburbanites from their local…. Chipotles. Developers are scum.
ATribeCalledGreg t1_iy1i62z wrote
Poor cities needing to appropriate suburban culture to survive.
AmbientGravitas t1_iy0piwo wrote
Sounds like Station Square…
clivedelgreco t1_iy04p1r wrote
I could not have said it better myself. Hear hear!!
woodcuttersDaughter t1_iy062ct wrote
I first saw the Chipotle just the other day and felt disappointed and perplexed as to why someone thought the Strip needed such a thing.
ChrisBegeman t1_iy0sw8t wrote
The Strip District is a regional tourist destination. I live out in Westmoreland County, so I don't go into the Strip often, but when I do, it seems like at least half the time I am going with friends or relatives, many of whom used to be from the Pittsburgh region. As a tourist draw, I could see a case for chain restaurants. They came for the shopping but want cheap and/or predicable food.
woodcuttersDaughter t1_iy0uhq7 wrote
Is the local food not part of the tourist attraction? You can get Chipotle anywhere.
ChrisBegeman t1_iy1otb2 wrote
I have had people from out of town want to go to Primanti's, Pamela's, and Deluca's because of seeing them on TV. Those seem to be the tourist attraction. The other restaurants are attractions for locals. I am sick of Primanti's personally.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy0tgjb wrote
Sucks to be the people eating at chipotle when they could be eating at Salem, Lucy’s or anywhere else.
verdesquared4533 t1_iy52pz8 wrote
Except that Chipotle will be open when Salem's, Lucy's, most other places are closed.
covertchipmunk t1_iy58y5g wrote
Salem's has pretty extensive hours, among other restaurants.
ThorThe12th t1_iy19y1n wrote
Yeah this is a bad take that ignores how urban areas function. The strip is not Pittsburgh’s fasting growing neighborhood because of out of townies visiting on the weekend. Like all parts of any urban area, the city of Pittsburgh and strip district included, most of the economic activity is done by locals.
ChrisBegeman t1_iy1psi9 wrote
Probably true. I work in the city out in the Bakery Square area, I don't live in the city. Oakland is the farthest west in Pittsburgh I like to get without a specific event, like a baseball game or show downtown. As someone that comes from out of town, I might over estimate the number of people who visit the Strip rather than are locals.
ThorThe12th t1_iy1umir wrote
I think that’s fair. You’re not a bad guy by any means, we’re all biased in such a way. I live about a two minute walk from market district in Shadyside and probably do 1/2 of my groceries in the strip and visit weekly or biweekly. Definitely glad to see people spending their money here no matter if they are from down the street or out of town though.
AirtimeAficionado t1_iy2xy06 wrote
It’s there, from Chipotle’s perspective, to serve the large and growing residential market in the Strip, currently around ~8,000 residents. I don’t think it was ever intended to be a draw for people, rather just there to serve the people that live there. That being said, it is still an uninspiring use of the space.
capt_lunatic t1_iy027jz wrote
The Strip District has one of the faster growing residential communities in the city, and the Terminal is their version of Pittsburgh Mills. All the sizzle, none of the substance. This place will be empty storefronts within years. It’s as if no one learned anything from Allegheny Center Mall, and the irreversible damage it caused to the North Side.
The most insufferable part of the article was “The Parking Problem” write up. Quit catering to the suburban population (yes, I know I’m one) and tailor this to the people within walking distance. Any redevelopment plan for the Strip District that doesn’t include turning Penn Ave in to a pedestrian shopping district is a big fat L.
eastlibertarian t1_iy07439 wrote
Hear hear. The half-assed attempt at making Smallman St really gets me--it added a bike lane that doesn't feel safe, it created angle parking that makes the street feel like a strip mall parking lot, and they painted bump outs for "traffic calming" that people just drive over or park in. They rebuilt the whole street from scratch and put in crappy temporary-feeling materials.
All that concrete and asphalt (with no Belgian block, brick, or stone) makes it feel so cheap and soulless. Combined with the focus on chain establishments, it's a real missed opportunity.
SavageGardner t1_iy0amxb wrote
Last year I was in that bike lane and some boomer in a convertebile drifted into it, spooking my SO who usually only rides on trails. I loudly said "mind the bike lane" and he lost his shit. He swerved over, slammed on his brakes, kept yelling at me, and eventually stopped to get out of his car and started coming at me.
They should have moved the parking closer to the road and protected the bike lane behind the parking. There's so much room for them to do that.
threwthelookinggrass t1_iy0d9b3 wrote
> They should have moved the parking closer to the road and protected the bike lane behind the parking. There’s so much room for them to do that.
It is not legal to build parking protected bike lanes in Pennsylvania, unfortunately.
SavageGardner t1_iy0ei57 wrote
I did not know that. Is there a reason for this? Sounds like something that should be changed.
threwthelookinggrass t1_iy0fa7u wrote
The law says something like cars must park within 12 inches of the curb. The legislature actually recently tried to change the law to allow for the creation of parking protected lanes, but republican senators sabotaged the bill. https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/protected-bike-lane-bill-named-for-a-pittsburgher-vetoed-over-late-gop-amendments/
superm455ive t1_iy1df67 wrote
That only applies to state owned roads like Forbes. Smallman is probably city or county, I highly doubt it’s a state road.
B0bb3r7 t1_iy16qrr wrote
I think that this is only the case for parallel parking. afaik, there is no 12-inch-from-curb requirement for other parking styles.
esotweetic t1_iy08jdo wrote
r/fuckcars would applaud you for this comment
username-1787 t1_iy0e8hx wrote
Unfortunately the city's plan for Penn ave in the strip is "more cars more parking"
trail-coffee t1_iy0pm87 wrote
praise the lord more parking, sometimes i have to do the loop TWICE to find a spot!
/s
Edit: no to mention have to walk a block or more to the first store i need
nopantsforfatties t1_iy25v0b wrote
That's what happens when you let a dude from Chicago in to "revitalize Pittsburgh" 🙄
AirtimeAficionado t1_iy2ydxg wrote
I don’t think it is going to do damage to the Strip like Allegheny Center, Allegheny Center was way more destructive to the surrounding neighborhood, eliminating significant buildings and creating a very weird neighborhood structure that was (and remains) confusing to navigate. The Terminal is just impacting one building that was already in disrepair. The businesses there don’t seem to have any appreciable impact on the Strip staples, and are completely different businesses in most cases.
As for its future, I agree that many of these businesses will fail in the long run, and that it will be an unsuccessful development. That being said, I don’t think the space will go to waste, and I think it is likely that it might be used in 5-10 years for the public market we all want. I view this development as just priming the pump for that, renovating the building and getting things ready for a better use once this development scheme fails.
DERBY_OWNERS_CLUB t1_iy1u6uz wrote
>This place will be empty storefronts within years.
This is a wildly off-base take of what you want to happen, not what will actually happen.
If the Strip can support half a dozen knock-off Steelers t-shirt shops, it can support a Chipotle.
Hi_Im_A t1_iy3ewc4 wrote
FWIW, parking is still relevant for those in walking distance. Living in a neighborhood where too many people are fighting for too little parking is a nightmare. It impacts you any time you need to leave your neighborhoods and come back, and it impacts the general safety and peace of trying to go about your day when the streets are overrun with angry drivers, increased accidents, etc.
nomadjames t1_iy0afvn wrote
I will not go to Post Gazzette page or pay for anything they do. What’s the article say? The terminal development has been one of my biggest let downs in Pittsburgh history.
Fooka03 t1_iy0duyb wrote
Yep, crossing the picket line is not cool.
nomadjames t1_iy0pb9g wrote
That and I don’t support spoiled shitty boomer trumptards. Someone flies that flag, I’ll never support anything they do.
dehehn t1_iy12846 wrote
Yeah. The article says many Strip District residents are disappointed. Interviews different people. Some want it to be more like the Reading Market in Philly. Some want high end stores like Gucci and Chanel. None want it to be Wine & Spirits, Virtual Golf and Chipotle.
ffffff00000066ff33 t1_iy12e2z wrote
The hollowing out of Pgh, as covered by those contributing to it. cool.
B0bb3r7 t1_iy15wp8 wrote
Thank you. Shame on the blocks.
sarahgrace93x t1_iy1ic5b wrote
If you have an iPhone you can turn on reader view and get past the paywall of their articles
SultanOfSwat0123 t1_iy2dm27 wrote
This is one of your biggest let downs? You’ve had an all around great Pittsburgh experience then lol
nomadjames t1_iy35s9h wrote
You ever been to the east side market in Cleveland?
SultanOfSwat0123 t1_iy42aaq wrote
Can’t say that I have. Is it worth it?
Edit: imagine downvoting this comment. Truly bizarre.
nomadjames t1_iy42i2u wrote
Yeah. And it will make you sad when you’re back in the strip looking at Chipotle.
SultanOfSwat0123 t1_iy438cl wrote
Lol there’s no disputing that. Chipotle is fun if you are a freshman in college because it’s like the cool thing to eat. And then you wake up and realize it’s blander than Eat n Park sober.
T-Hi t1_iy0kr3g wrote
I’m in for more of the open air, local culture, yinzer thing. You can go to 50 other strip malls to get that other crap. But unfortunately cash rules everything around us. Brace for the worst.
raoulduke007 t1_iy3c0ez wrote
CREAM
chuckie512 t1_iy00f27 wrote
Fuck the blocks.
mmphoto412 t1_iy03icm wrote
This is always a correct answer
esotweetic t1_iy085eo wrote
This project has been discussed since 2014 and has turned into a massive dissapointment. It could have been our Cleveland West side market. I just don’t know how any developer doesn’t see how well loved that is and conjure up this bs. Especially when it’s so comparable and close to our city. It should have been the first slide mentioned on the planning powerpoint presentation.
This is all well discussed in this sub and clearly is hated by the community.
HOWEVER, the next point is:
McAffrey has quietly apparently been shopping the project. He doesn’t want to give negative press any room to flourish because it will only ruin resale value for a potential flip.
Now he feels he has to double down by insulating this bs with more bs in the form of “luxury” condos that are sold for $900,000 starting price or apartments that start at $1,500 for a studio.
From there he’ll likely flip the entire block to a hedgefund and be long gone for a solid ROI on investment.
The wheel never is broken and will continue to spin.
The Terminal should be a case study in business class that not all development is good.
P.S- are we not going to also talk about the fact they permitted Cochran to build a whole ass AUDI DEALERSHIP in the Strip?
pAul2437 t1_iy0d7c9 wrote
This was likely the most profitable move for mcafree . A community market doesn’t make money.
What was crappy was the city let them do it
Beginning_Physics_21 t1_iy1b3ou wrote
Not all development is good this is true. This particular development is truly abhorrent. It's exacerbated by the fact that half the population in this region is already mad they're making changes to the strip to begin with. A lot of the people I hear complain about it are people who haven't gone to the strip in 20-plus years like my mother-in-law but they just know change is bad.
As someone who lived in 15222 for a long time, it is crazy to me that it is better to leave all those buildings unused and vacant vs. putting something in there.
whyadamwhy t1_iy0bj08 wrote
It’s easy to blame McCaffrey, the developer, but his interest is in getting the business space filled up and generating revenue. I expect nothing more from a real estate mogul. If the city wanted local businesses in there then they should’ve included specific provisions for the types of businesses that they want. The URA failed us on this one.
Itsjustataco t1_iy0lbeo wrote
He should be blamed. Tax incentives and partnerships with ura are on the back of this project. A core reason for community support was that it was to be local business friendly.
If we put in a bunch of places available in a strip mall, it will just be another SoDo basic garbage place
whyadamwhy t1_iy0ljsc wrote
Then enforce it. He dgaf so you have to make him.
norealheroes t1_iy1ieho wrote
The URA’s entire mission seems to be to fail at everything
BigRig_theman t1_iy1hv08 wrote
Came here to ask this question. As an outsider, just looks like a bungled real estate deal by the URA. Probably would have been better to spin off a non profit cooperation for long term management. That’s how they run Eastern Market here in Detroit.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy018ym wrote
It’s super disappointing, even the state store has a bland stock. I thought for sure they would have a better selection of wine since The Strip is a hip neighborhood, but nope. I wish the few local businesses there the best of luck, but I hope this project fails for the owners who lied about their true intentions.
dolanbp t1_iy14z8x wrote
Been out of the burgh for a bit now... is Pennsylvania Libations still down there? And if so, between that, breweries, wineries... why evened need a state store?
Beeblebrox237 t1_iy1rmnn wrote
Yep, and it's still awesome.
Ernie077 t1_iy1l589 wrote
The closest state store to the strip is either downtown or lawernceville. It’s actually convenient for people who live/work in the strip to shop at.
dolanbp t1_iy1mgsv wrote
That... doesn't answer my question.
There are breweries, for beer. Wineries, for wine. And Pennsylvania Libations specializes in Pennsylvania craft liquors. Everything a state store offers is available through other merchants (yes, I know state stores don't sell beer).
The Strip has always been "the place" to go when you want local/specialty/ethnic items. You've got local butchers and groceries, specialty coffee, cigars, and spices, Asian, Italian, and Greek markets. How does a Wine and Spirits shop fit into that, when that niche is already filled, and filled better? If you really badly want big name liquor or wine, the bus to East Liberty picks up at Penn Station and gets you to a Fine Wine and Good Spirits in like 5-10 minutes. The shops you mentioned in L-ville and Downtown are a short bus/bike ride away. Your answer is one of laziness.
Edit: add to my comment that the top comment I replied to notes the stock at this new location is lacking, so what's the point anyway.
Hi_Im_A t1_iy3ekyb wrote
The state store is the only place to get alcohol from other places.
dolanbp t1_iy3glkm wrote
That logic doesn't follow with me. It's like saying that because Penn Mac doesn't sell Great Value pasta, there should be a Walmart in the Strip.
Hi_Im_A t1_iy3h5p3 wrote
I didn't say "there should be a FWGS in the Strip."
You said more than once that you can get everything you would get at the state store at PA Libations, and I pointed out the large category of things that make that untrue.
dolanbp t1_iy3j6oy wrote
The state store sells wine and liquor. PA Libations sells wine and liquor. Sure, that's somewhat reductionist, but its the truth. Complaining that a store doesn't carry everything that another store carries is a dead horse you'll never beat anything out of. If you want something from FWGS, there's four or five stores within a 5-15 minute commute of the strip by various transportation methods. If what you want is wine, there's even more options through grocery stores.
The FWGS is just an example of the bigger problem though. Specialty shops are the reason people shop at the strip. They don't go there to buy bottles of big name wine and a Chipotle burrito bowl. Suburban shopping malls have that. We've seen this sort of thing done before at Allegheny Center Mall, Southside Works, at Station Square, at The Waterfront. We need to stop making urban centers designed for suburban people.
Ernie077 t1_iy55jyp wrote
You said you’ve been out of the Burgh for a few years. There has been an explosion of offices and apartments in the strip. People who work/live in the strip can walk to the liquor store at lunch/after work to pick up something not available at PA Libations.
dolanbp t1_iy5ij0m wrote
When I left (mid-covid), several were already built, but it looks like the wasteland between One Waterfront Place and Cork Factory has partially filled in. Is Railroad street useful yet? Does the trail go past 15th street now?
I can understand the need for a liquor store if the demographic has changed that much and the demand is there. What I don't understand are rhe other "suburban walkable mall" choices.
pAul2437 t1_iy1r6p7 wrote
People are lazy
mckills t1_iy0llub wrote
Chain stores, tons of parking, shitty bike infrastructure. Yep, it sucks.
TeeAre10 t1_iy1ti4o wrote
And which local business is able to pay for the astronomical rent?
Aethenil t1_iy0358d wrote
I like the plant store that's in there. Everything else seems mostly out of place. It doesn't make a lot of sense when compared to the neighborhood as a whole because the businesses there don't seem to be made for the residents.
The article makes comparisons to Ross and Robinson. I kinda agree. I also think both those suburbs have better businesses of those kinds. The city should be able to capitalize on its natural differences from the suburbs and build accordingly...not try and mimic them.
BurghPuppies t1_iy0hqnd wrote
It’s so interesting to read people’s thoughts on what “should” be in the Terminal. One poster said it should have speciality shops and eateries, while dismissing the shops & eateries that are there. Another said it should be Chanel, Prada, or Burberry; trust me folks, those brands pick where THEY want to go, the Strip is a LONG way from being a destination for them.
My favorite, though, is decrying the lack of local businesses without knowing which businesses, if any, have inquired about space there. What would you all like, a Brighton Hot Dogs shop? A local tanning shop? A locally owned Supercuts?
Premium retail space in malls all over the US is vacant, of course this is going to fill up slowly. And bad news, long time Strip residents — you’re not the target demographic. It’s the 25-38 childless residents who moved from the West Coast, NY, and Chicago into all those new buildings you hate.
pedantic_comments t1_iy0yn1h wrote
There was an article about how they baited White Whale and gave the space to a chain.
I don’t think anyone would think twice about this space if the developers didn’t fuck with local businesses in addition to not renting to them.
BurghPuppies t1_iy0ztju wrote
Hadn’t seen that, definitely playing winner take all real estate there. I’m not familiar with White Whale, but I’m sure Posman’s has deeper pockets… which certainly goes against the narrative the landlord is pushing. Either way, a bookstore will be gone in <3 years anyway because people (especially that demographic) download books instead of buying actual paper.
pedantic_comments t1_iy10lm6 wrote
White Whale is expanding and hosting readings and a coffee bar. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
BurghPuppies t1_iy15juv wrote
Maybe I don’t, I mean, I did say I wasn’t familiar with them.
But having been in the book business for over 15 years, maybe I do. It’s been a few years, but things haven’t changed that much. With a low ticket product like that, especially when going against online sales and an industry leader that discounts bestsellers heavily, you need foot traffic & lots of it. We’ll see.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy0lp01 wrote
I think a mix of local shops and eateries would be nice. Citygrows, Pip & Lola and Herbert’s Pharmacy are a great start, but let’s keep adding actual local places not locally own franchises.
BurghPuppies t1_iy0m4t0 wrote
I’m fine with that, but it takes two to tango. Let’s see what local businesses step up, too.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy0mk6j wrote
As I said in another comment, the rent is probably astronomical for a small local businesses or startup. I don’t think it is a matter of small businesses stepping up so much as the landlord has made it impossible.
BurghPuppies t1_iy0nbgg wrote
That’s why some of us live in Carrick, and some of us live in Fox Chapel. The landlord is trying to get tenants that suit their new space and their emerging demographic. If they charge cheap rent they get airbrush T-shirt shops like Pittsburgh Mills or Century III. Plus, they get to make money too.
It’s a calculated risk, because my gut tells me they’ve overpriced themselves during this real estate price explosion. But it’s a business.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy0nknd wrote
You’re acting like the landlord doesn’t have a say over applicants. “This airbrush t- shirt shop applied, have to let them in!” 😂
BurghPuppies t1_iy0nv5n wrote
Of course they do, but so did C3 & the Mills. Setting the rent high is a business calculation. We’ll see how far their standards fall if they can’t fill those spaces. Could become Penn Ave.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy0u5s8 wrote
Those are malls in random suburbs. The Strip has been a destination for how long? They have built countless luxury apartments in the neighborhood over the last decade. I highly doubt this is going to turn into the Pittsburgh Mills anytime soon.
BurghPuppies t1_iy0w10f wrote
I didn’t say it was going to, I said there’s a reason rents are high and showed an example of what happens when landlords get desperate for tenants and lower both rent & standards. And I commented further up in the thread about the new housing and demographic, and how that’s the reason for the high rent.
And while the Strip is a destination, there’s really only one street that’s even close to a retail destination. Two different things.
thecrowfly t1_iy1wp66 wrote
I would like a Brighton Hot Dog shop there.
TnT54321 t1_iy10gkk wrote
At least the Asian food hall is in the works, definitely looking forward to that
LostEnroute t1_iy8swi3 wrote
Excuse me, this is supposed to be a negative comments only thread.
ancrm114d t1_iy05de1 wrote
I would like to see more of a market and local flavor. But I'm glad it was not torn down or left to rot. Smaller local businesses I'm sure were more hesitant to expand during the pandemic.
I'm hoping time will lead to a better outcome but I'd bet we are going to see more of the same for a while.
Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_iy061gg wrote
More likely small businesses can’t afford the rent and that is why they have stayed away
Upset_Mess t1_iy2iswi wrote
It's sad how it goes. Quirky, awesome businesses thrive, neighborhood becomes popular, landlords get greedy, out goes the coolness because the only businesses that can afford to pay the rent are chains. Oakland is a good example.
guyonlinepgh t1_iy0purt wrote
It's a missed opportunity, but from decades ago. It could have been converted into a public market the way Seattle, Toronto, Vancouver, Milwaukee, etc etc have. I'm happy the building isn't sitting empty any longer, but it's essentially been turned into a mall.
pAul2437 t1_iy14vi4 wrote
It was a public market a decade ago
clivedelgreco t1_iy0qlyq wrote
They should write a second version of this article using real Pittsburgher quotes from this thread. If you want everyone to know how the local public feels about this atrocity, look no further than this comment thread.
jimbo_kun t1_iy1befi wrote
Oh yes, Reddit is a completely unbiased sample of the general population for pretty much any topic.
ATribeCalledGreg t1_iy1iuhd wrote
Reddit is not representative of Pittsburgh by a long shot.
put_the_ux_in_sux t1_iy08ef1 wrote
It would have just been better to leave it as an abandoned shithole that let grifters illegally price gouge parking on public right of way. /s
JeansbyWeen t1_iy0jj2h wrote
Such a bummer to see a great idea go so poorly. I live in Denver now (thankfully moving back in less than 2 weeks) and there’s a few places like this out here, and they’re great, but Denver also loves local business and that’s why they work so well. You only see local restaurants and breweries open up, and the bars that serve the main population of patrons serve only local beers. I can also see how people don’t like the aesthetic of this kind of place in Pittsburgh or the strip specifically.
DreadSocialistOrwell t1_iy2878j wrote
- Mayweather Boxing + Fitness
Hurray, let's bring a women beater's business to Pittsburgh!
- Posman books
Oh, yeah, they had ice cream so an outside retailer won out over local retailers for that space. I remember that news article from a couple years ago.
Reminds of me of the South Side Works.
ComprehensiveCat7515 t1_iy3iuzq wrote
Yeah, agreed that the revamped terminal is a strip mall. I had expectations that it would be closer to Phillys Reading Terminal but alas corporate greed always wins.
thecrowfly t1_iy1llvg wrote
So judging from this thread yinz would be against a Dave n Busters moving in?
ScrumGuz t1_iy29oi6 wrote
There is one in Homestead. Why would Pittsburgh need another D&B's?
thecrowfly t1_iy3eapa wrote
NM, I'm thinking that the old Whole Foods location is better suited anyway.
cinnamongirl_77 t1_iy1lx4t wrote
Was really hoping for something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or North Market in Columbus OH. Those places are filled with local shopping, eating and drinking. I’m hopeful it will get better with time!
Gladhands t1_iy4h31w wrote
None of those places could get built today
LazyBoi0736 t1_iy1spib wrote
I used to work security for that building I get her point but she needs to remember where she’s at…primantis is literally across the street, there’s 4 resturants also across the street plus the STRIP DISTRICT not even a block away
Gladhands t1_iy4gi65 wrote
The terminal sucks, but I can’t get upset about it. It’s better than the crumbling warehouses that were there before, and the developers can only fill it with the tenants who are willing to pay the rent.
markelwayne t1_iy1ygil wrote
People complaining about being able to buy burrito bowls in the strip district need to absolutely get a life. It’s the most trivial thing. And besides, for people who live or work in the strip district it’s an ok option for relatively cheap food if you’re in a hurry for like lunch
montani t1_iy224dm wrote
Ever since the public market left the terminal has been an empty turd. I don’t know what’s going to happen but I’d guess people making a trip to the strip aren’t going for chipotle, so if chipotle survives it’s down to the people who moved close the there anyway. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t think one has anything to do with the other and maybe they both do fine or maybe the new stuff dies but I don’t think the old strip is going to be hurt by this.
ravia t1_iy2gyfq wrote
One thing is that, like the South Side Works area on East Carson, the new developments tend to have a problem with store fronts, IMO. Store fronts that grow naturally are just riddled with specificity, a unique look, due to vastly different conditions of building, signage, etc. If you look at the signage in the Terminal development, it looks like they adhere to some restrictions on size of sign, sign font, etc., for example. It creates a kind of monotone, and it can even obscure businesses that are there. E.g., in the South Side, the waffle place, or Paint with a Twist (or whatever it's called). These signs/storefronts just don't stand out enough.
I don't know how they could do it otherwise but I bet they could. Have it less finished, and require the businesses to finish the storefront more themselves. Even if it's shoddy, it would look more natural and unique.
LostEnroute t1_iy8stno wrote
Anything that prevents a permanent vinyl sign hanging from some nails is good, IMO.
ravia t1_iybuyi4 wrote
And yet, the finest markets in, say, NYC include some pretty shoddy storefronts.
MikeFromPitt5 t1_iy18oxy wrote
I thought Reading Street Terminal in Philly or Faneuil Hall in Boston would be great!!
its-saute t1_iy1j1iw wrote
So over the years as I have watched the Terminal develop I really had hoped it was going the direction of a very similar development in DC called Union Market. Union Market is really popular, all local shops, packed during the week and on weekends, it is in an industrial district and the building itself is much like the Terminal. I’m not sure why the Pittsburgh development wasn’t able to go in this direction Union Market
SWPenn t1_iy1l6q2 wrote
The deal was that the Penn Avenue merchants/grocers/bakers/ fish markets/cheese shops did not want the terminal to be filled with shops in direct competition. That's why it's not like Union Market or Reading Terminal. Stores that would be in those markets already line Penn Avenue.
its-saute t1_iy1lyra wrote
Ok…we’ll then I’m at a loss as to why everyone is complaining that chain stores are coming in? If the local businesses didn’t want any more local competition there…then what were they supposed to put in there…?
SWPenn t1_iy376qy wrote
That was my thought, too. It's been well documented over the years that any plan to make the Terminal a public market was a nonstarter and the Penn Avenue merchants would have fought it. So the developer looked for other businesses that would add to the variety without taking business away from Penn Avenue.
DreadSocialistOrwell t1_iy2blm1 wrote
Chain stores are there because McCaffrey flat out lied to the URA and toyed with local businesses like White Whale while attracting chain stores
pAul2437 t1_iy1re9a wrote
It was a market years ago and failed.
DreadSocialistOrwell t1_iy2cokr wrote
What you're failing to tell people is how neglected The Produce Terminal was by the URA before McCaffrey came in with all his promises. I doubt you actually stepped foot in there when it was a market. (Hint: it was a shithole)
So stop saying that it just failed. It couldn't attract businesses then because it was a bad investment for those businesses. It's a bad investment now because it's hilariously overpriced because the URA has a shitty history of going with developers who just want to gouge or take advantage of the older low costs to flip and sell.
Pre-redevelopment, the whole thing was setup to fail and be easy to shutter once a developer signed on to the project.
The building was falling into disrepair, the URA only offered month-to-month leases (not sure for how long it was, but the URA ran the building since the 1980s). So really, how does any business make at least a yearly plan or multi-year plan if the URA is going to suddenly not allow a lease renewal and you have to move your business?
Only parts of the building were open, probably only the parts that were structurally sound, so that if part of the building did collapse, nobody would be killed.
The whole thing was a joke 10+ years ago. That's why it failed.
pAul2437 t1_iy3e5h4 wrote
It wasn’t a shithole lol. The main problem was lack of infrastructure
. It wasn’t financially viable because of incompetence and/or didn’t make business sense.
PGHENGR t1_iy27fhm wrote
Thank you!!! Came here to say the same thing.
nopantsforfatties t1_iy259wl wrote
Again, you can lease a store space in Ross Park Mall for the same price or cheaper than a terminal space. There are zero local small businesses that are cool that can afford 10k/mo rent. Literally, I can go to Williamsburg and find a similar retail space for the same price - and that's Brooklyn. Either make the rent cheaper or embrace the Chipotle.
PGHENGR t1_iy27akr wrote
Does no one remember the actual open air market that was there and didn’t do well obviously? I’m so sick of people bitching. If you don’t like what’s being developed, go develop something yourself! No one is stopping you. Cue the downvotes…
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S4ltyInt3ractions t1_iy3hrdd wrote
This jabroni from Chicago got his 99 year lease all he has to do is purposely tank it for a few years claim the write off then say he can't fulfill the promises and he has to rent it to target.
knucklekneck t1_iy6zrzc wrote
They should have opened the buildings up, made them safe to walk around in for kids disabled etc. and then done something like turn it into a space with benches something like the NY Highline where they converted old train tracks into a park and you don't have to buy anything to just be there. The retail could have just been market style stands. Its overdone and unfortunately doomed to failure. Does anyone even go to the backside of it facing the condo monotony?
morbidhoagie t1_iy1tk89 wrote
The strip has been getting worse and worse over the past 5 years or so. It used to be a good spot for night life on top of all the businesses along the strip. Now they bring all these big chains in and ruin the only thing that makes the strip fun by detracting from the local businesses and put a bow on it with art statues and stuff. What a disappointment.
Ok_Establishment4906 t1_iy4c2a1 wrote
They should’ve converted it into a Time Out market hall. Been to a few worldwide and they are spot on. Rotating vendors make it a different experience each time. Look at what Baltimore did with their food halls - one is even in a converted repair shop/garage. Missed opportunity, no wonder they call it flyover country.
[deleted] t1_iy4vlau wrote
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johnmccain2004 t1_iy1q41y wrote
Truthfully it’s the strip. It hasn’t been real local business for decades. Go to Millvale, Bloomfield, Lawrenceville for some real homegrown talented retail and cooking. I have never fucked with the strip when Ross Park Mall is always less busy
Jahya69 t1_iy1qip3 wrote
Keep in mind that development in this case comes from Chicago or Columbus and that's pretty much all you need to know
djcryptik t1_iy0a5jv wrote
Chain stores and Suburbanites are= lame+Stinkie
Urban chads and local, soulful business= good+nice
I said my piece, Chrissy
djcryptik t1_iy0kfo1 wrote
Lmoa suburban roaches mad
StickyRicky17 t1_iy0i7s2 wrote
I'm glad that there will finally be something worthwhile in the Strip District. I'll probably make a trek, or two into town to patronize these establishments. That is, if the gun violence calms down a bit, and if the parking situation gets better.
Itsjustataco t1_iy0kxez wrote
Most of them are available anywhere
StickyRicky17 t1_iy0na5j wrote
I know, but it's just cool to go into the city sometimes. It's a whole other vibe. I'd definitely rather live in like a Cranberry, or a Wexford. Places like that are way safer, and cleaner. However, the occasional trip into the city is cool for a grittier vibe.
Anotherburner42069 t1_iy0uens wrote
Stay there please and keep the fuck out of the city
StickyRicky17 t1_iy0v2ih wrote
How's come?
kevin0carl t1_iy1gqx1 wrote
Buddy most people on here live in the city. Everyday I wake up, hop on the T and then come in to the city. It’s not gritty it’s neighborly and vibrant. This is home for a lot of people not just the place for your gritty play dates. It’s always disappointing to see historic neighborhoods turned into play places for suburbanites who whine about parking.
StickyRicky17 t1_iy1nwwq wrote
I'm sure that the owners, and franchisees of these businesses don't mind me, and my boys bringing our fat stacks into the city limits to spread around.
evenflowf t1_iy013m3 wrote
The fact that they are opening chain businesses that are competition for locally owned stores in the strip is bullshit. Go to Peppis instead of primo hoagies and Edgar's instead of chipotle. Heard there's a chain coffee shop opening soon too.