Comments
arbrady t1_j9o6jo7 wrote
Raising from $900 to $1385 and blaming it on EMS raises and inflation. That’s ridiculous.
nyxnars t1_j9o6y1w wrote
Deadass. EMTs get paid basically minimum wage
TheGabagoolKid t1_j9o7c0i wrote
I’ll just walk
UuuuSERnamee00911 t1_j9oaad2 wrote
Emts and medics around the city work 2-3 jobs and are never home 🙃 can't afford it.
knockatize t1_j9obvu2 wrote
Lots of “frequent flyers” out there who call for an ambulance any time they have the sniffles. The EMTs know the addresses by heart. Could be hypochondriacs, addicts, or just plain old idiots like people with COPD who continue to smoke.
They typically don’t pay so the taxpayer eats the cost.
Anybody know what FDNY frequent flyer policy is, if they have one? Or is it “you call, we haul” and who cares what the cost to taxpayers and legit patients is?
Grass8989 t1_j9oes22 wrote
Paramedics definitely don’t.
Edit: Paramedics literally don’t make minimum wage.
https://www.joinfdny.com/careers/ems/
This is publicly accessible information.
Grass8989 t1_j9oezpq wrote
Yup, correct. Ask any EMS worker how many of their 911 transports are truly emergencies. People treat ambulances like taxis, and it’s the people who do the right thing that eat the cost. Granted, most of the “frequent flyers” have Medicaid (they pay nothing regardless) so this may be a way for the city to try to get Medicaid reimbursements up from these people.
The_Lone_Apple t1_j9of4d7 wrote
Don't my taxes pay for these things?
WagwanDeezNutz t1_j9ofrfu wrote
Your specific taxes covered a gallon of diesel and 7 bucks worth of hand warmers
thisfilmkid t1_j9ogb0g wrote
Sounds like an issue for insurance companies to deal with……. Lol
I pay insurance to NOT have to pay for the ambulance when I need it, no?
And if you need to get to the emergency room, call an Uber …. If your life is not on the line.
bkornblith t1_j9ogq2x wrote
No your taxes go to Mayor Swagger’s entourage
TrekkerMcTrekkerface t1_j9ogrix wrote
EMTs need to make more
Ambulances should cost less
akmalhot t1_j9oj8r3 wrote
It's every mayors corruption .
Bdb funneld over a billion to hos wife's passion project that yielded no real results. Administrators out earned treatment providers by 2x. Corruption
Getting anything done in NYC requires bribes and corruption
P0stNutClarity t1_j9ol2m9 wrote
Your taxes are are being split between Ukraine and economic migrants in luxury hotels right now.
Metroncat t1_j9oltql wrote
I heard a story about a guy who drove to the hospital holding his intestines in his hands after his surgical sutures broke while laughing at a funny show. I think we’ll be seeing some of that if they make this price hike, since ambulance rides are already pricy.
Love_and_Squal0r t1_j9omu2c wrote
The most expensive taxi you'll ever take.
edaduas t1_j9oo2vu wrote
Took FDNY ambulance reluctantly once and the bill came out to around $1K for a two miles ride and two ice packs. That's some BS.
Backseat_boss t1_j9ooow8 wrote
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
sutisuc t1_j9op180 wrote
LOL where do you think you are? France?
manormortal t1_j9op7g0 wrote
So if I get hit by a car ill still have to take the bus to the hospital eh?
OGPants t1_j9oplgu wrote
How do you know your insurance won't charge you the difference as a copay?
LikesBallsDeep t1_j9orxks wrote
My city tax alone was over $6000. It should cover this shit.
York_Villain t1_j9otwxi wrote
I had a friend that slept in his truck three nights per week.
[deleted] t1_j9ov7ru wrote
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cakeversuspie t1_j9owq6q wrote
They should be fucking free. It is in almost every other CIVILIZED country
PSEL14 t1_j9oxtfi wrote
America is a joke , maybe if they didn’t spend 500b on military it would be come down 50% not up , I don’t get how you lot don’t protest about your military spending
[deleted] t1_j9oy1bc wrote
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Fresh720 t1_j9oyxzn wrote
Too busy working or distracting ourselves. There's a reason why so many people were in the streets protesting during the pandemic, lot of shit was locked down
PSEL14 t1_j9oz7it wrote
There comes a point when you shouldn’t / can’t ignore it
knockatize t1_j9ozl05 wrote
Wherever they are “free” (going forward, use “taxpayer funded” if you prize honesty and accuracy) such services are abused.
Sorry the ambulance crew couldn’t deal with your heart attack because they were busy tending to a drunk.
Criminalizing emergency services abuse would go a long way toward shutting down “frequent flyers” who call emergency services with minor complaints.
mikey-likes_it t1_j9p034v wrote
Why are we charging for rides in the first place. Aren’t our taxes paying for this?
Ryuuken1127 t1_j9p0tsa wrote
>they were busy tending to a drunk
Ah yes, someone overindulged, so therefore they shouldn't receive free emergency treatment because they're a shit stain on society. Let's continue the course of obliterating people into debt asking for emergency (or any kind of) healthcare.
I really don't understand why Americans' first thought of any sort of free healthcare is "iTs gUnNa bE aBuSeD bY tHoSe wHo DoNt dEsErVe iT" (when in fact, they're the ones who probably need it the most)
squall571 t1_j9p12nw wrote
The hospital bill is even worse, cheaper to die in the US.
cakeversuspie t1_j9p2s9k wrote
>>they were busy tending to a drunk > >Ah yes, someone overindulged, so therefore they shouldn't receive free emergency treatment because they're a shit stain on society. Let's continue the course of obliterating people into debt asking for emergency (or any kind of) healthcare.
This is the part that kills me. Because A SMALL MINORITY of people may abuse the system, that means we need to keep the current system of people potentially using taxis to get to the hospital to avoid being financially crushed by a $1k bill from an ambulance ride.
ELONGATEDSNAIL t1_j9p36vs wrote
I used to be an EMT . There are frequent flyers with non emergency issues very often and they deff take up resources. Most of the time it's just elderly people who are on medicare. These people are usually poor and they use it as a way to get free medication. There are also people with mental illness who have some episode. Bringing them to a hospital does not really solve the issue but we have no other way to deal with these kinds of people besides the police. But the worst kind of people are the ones who are just trying to score narcotics. I didn't see that happen to often but i imagine it does in worse areas.
cakeversuspie t1_j9p3f28 wrote
>Wherever they are “free” (going forward, use “taxpayer funded” if you prize honesty and accuracy) such services are abused. > >Sorry the ambulance crew couldn’t deal with your heart attack because they were busy tending to a drunk. > >Criminalizing emergency services abuse would go a long way toward shutting down “frequent flyers” who call emergency services with minor complaints.
So your solution is...do nothing...because some people MIGHT abuse the system? So we should keep using the same system where people would rather take the risk on a cab ride than be saddled with potentially crippling debt for a medical emergency?
People abuse the welfare system too, but that still exists. And imo, if the welfare system prevents just ONE person/family from starving or being on the street, I am more than happy with my taxes going to that, even if there is abuse.
ike_tyson t1_j9p3jxx wrote
If you're not bleeding or vomiting call an Uber or a cab, it's cheaper.
thisfilmkid t1_j9p42oa wrote
That’s possible.
I have health care benefits from my company, and so hospital visits are $150.
Next open enrollment, they may increase the copay. But that’s IF I accept to rollover to the new medical benefits. I didn’t accept this year, so my benefits remained the same.
LikesBallsDeep t1_j9p47hh wrote
It's been a good decade for tech...
But yeah seriously, I know I'm not the median, but I'm also not a billionaire over here. There's over half a million people in NYC alone making my income or more and paying those taxes.
The problem here is never that there's no money for something, the sums allocated to various things in the city budget are mind blowing and not seen in any other city in the world. We just don't seem to get much for it.
NinjaCaviar t1_j9p58e9 wrote
Tbf it’s cheaper to die everywhere.
Pool_Shark t1_j9p5h1j wrote
Just find one person at the top who is being paid 7+ figures and cut their job and all the sudden the budget is there without screwing over citizens.
NinjaCaviar t1_j9p5huz wrote
Nobody who comes up in NYS is clean, it seems. Gotta get dirty to work the machine.
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9p5m2x wrote
Until they put in their 20 and get pension and free “Cadillac coverage” Heath care for the rest of their life. You’ll never meet so many retired 38 year olds.
Pool_Shark t1_j9p5szg wrote
System is abused regardless. Instead of costing citizens fine the abusers
[deleted] t1_j9p74jv wrote
Darrackodrama t1_j9p7eb9 wrote
Like find this money in taxes on wealthier New Yorkers and nypd cuts ffs
m1kasa4ckerman t1_j9p9g0r wrote
I love how Blade is cheaper than a quick ambulance ride
Mechanical_Nightmare t1_j9pa3af wrote
last year i sliced off part of my finger and was bleeding profusely but took a cab to the hospital for like $10 cause fuck that noise
bluelion70 t1_j9paedp wrote
At this point if I was in an accident, I’d rather just be left there to die than to receive medical attention and become a debt slave for the rest of my life.
shanninc t1_j9pbwiq wrote
I wish we spent 500b on military.
The 2023 federal direct budget for the military is $813b (which is more than they asked for).
That also doesn't include the hundreds of billions in state and local municipality police and corrections budgets.
PSEL14 t1_j9pc6ho wrote
It’s crazy , the way some people are living in America is crazy , extreme poverty . And then when they’re ill they can’t get the right health care it’s mental to me
PSEL14 t1_j9pcc0z wrote
I’d understand it to an extent of America was a poor country but it’s the complete opposite
iv2892 t1_j9pcdwu wrote
Sorry but our tax dollars have to be spent on Ukraine instead of our own citizens
iv2892 t1_j9pci6u wrote
If it wasn’t for the corruption and our money going into Ukraine we would have more money for this
Fresh720 t1_j9pcpmk wrote
Facts, there's a reason why they televised people getting beat on camera. Shit was a threat to the general population if they thought about protesting for anything. Even when you do it "the right way" there's almost no coverage on it making it useless.
T1mac t1_j9pcyja wrote
> That also doesn't include the hundreds of billions in state and local municipality police and corrections budgets.
It also doesn't include the Energy Dept and the nuclear stockpile for all those nuclear missiles.
Infinite_Carpenter t1_j9pd22n wrote
My wife was hit by a car while biking and a bystander called an ambulance. My wife refused treatment and we still got a $2000 bill. Mount Sinai told us there isn’t even an office we could call to contest the bill.
PSEL14 t1_j9pd8wk wrote
Completely agree , the media has a tight grip on everything , push a false narrative to go to wars to justify military spending etc , they don’t put out what they don’t want the general public knowing . Plus wouldn’t be surprised if they started arresting people if a protest happened and got out of there control
tekdemon t1_j9pdekt wrote
It’s extra bizarre since the FDNY is a taxpayer funded service to begin with.
shanninc t1_j9pdff1 wrote
Dang TIL. Looks to be about ~$60b a year
LeicaM6guy t1_j9pdr27 wrote
You joke, but I've got a hard and fast rule - unless I'm actively bleeding to death, I'm going to take a taxi. I just can't afford an ambulance.
LeicaM6guy t1_j9pdxpy wrote
You know we can drop dump-trucks full of money into Ukraine and have a decent health care system, right? We wouldn't even notice it, and it's not like they don't both deserve it.
cakeversuspie t1_j9pebha wrote
>If it wasn’t for the corruption and our money going into Ukraine we would have more money for this
You're not totally wrong in that statement. Other countries rely on our firepower and with that comes most of our country's budget going to things like aid and weapons for other countries that are currently in war time, but Americans VOTED for this. Also I love how you're using Ukraine as an example but didn't bring up other countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran where we also spent tons of money. So let's not pretend that if we weren't sending money to Ukraine that ALL OF A SUDDEN we would have money for things like healthcare and infrastructure.
Just so we're clear, I agree that we spend too much on war mongering and not enough on things I mentioned above. But just remember which politicians were voted in and what their priorities are, and I'll tell you this, it wasn't the progressives who actually fought for things like healthcare reform. It's not progressives who want to abolish unions and keep slave wages in this country. It's not progressives that want to deregulate industries and it's not progressives that are trying to bring back child labor.
knockatize t1_j9pem7v wrote
Might, my ass.
People DO abuse the system. A lot. And taxpayers pay for it all.
This is classic tragedy of the commons: a small but significant part of the population monopolizing and misusing services that are for the -entire- population, and going unpunished even in extreme cases.
First responders can let the frequent flyer know about the existing non-emergency programs for the caller, and either they get with the program or face fines and charges. These are existing programs in many jurisdictions.
But not New York City, it would appear.
Google “312 Riverside Drive” in Manhattan. It won’t show up on a map because it doesn’t exist, but it is the reported address for thousands of fake 911 calls.
From ONE guy. In this case, an old crackhead in a shelter. (That’s “older individual experiencing crackheadedness” for the exquisitely sensitive.)
Last I knew, he’s still at the shelter and still messing with 911.
Which seems to be okay by New York. One idiot Karen makes one racist 911 call about a birdwatcher and the politicians fall over themselves to pass something on bogus 911 calls involving a protected class.
But when it comes to the other hundreds of thousands of fake calls they don’t do dick.
JeffeBezos t1_j9peny1 wrote
That's a hot take.
Go back under the rock you came from.
BigDaddyBimbus t1_j9pesmt wrote
Ukraine has nothing to do with corporations fucking everyone over.
aguafiestas t1_j9pf8hf wrote
In 2016, FDNY did a hair over 1 million hospital transports (see here).
So you would probably need to cut around $500 million in administrator salary to make up this difference.
MyBlueBucket t1_j9pfy8n wrote
not sure why you're not more concerned about the fact that people forego medical treatment due to high medical costs. People abuse any system, but the current system punishes those who have actual medical emergencies. Ambulance rides shouldn't be a for profit business.
My mother passed out all of a sudden at home one morning and I was freaking out and called the ambulance. She didn't want to go on the ambulance because she didn't want to pay for the ride but I made her go on. Fortunately she was fine, but why should she be punished for possibly having a medical emergency? She got a bill in the mail for almost $1000.
You're more concerned about the abuse by a minority of people, but not the abuse done by corporations that want to suck the money out of people suffering from medical issues.
[deleted] t1_j9pg134 wrote
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Tatar_Kulchik t1_j9pgw35 wrote
Call the Attorney's General office. They got a $6K bill I received from a hospital reduced to $0 because it violated some law.
Also, don't have to call, you can fill out a form online and they will call you.
Tatar_Kulchik t1_j9phaea wrote
I once broke my arm and took an ambulance to the ER. THe ambulance didn't do anything for me- no medicine, nothing. Just a taxi. The doctor in the ER even said, 'unless bone is sticking out, even for broken bone just take a taxi'.
​
Luckily my insurance cost for ambulance ride is capped at $100 so wasn't the end of the world. But the price before insurance was actually $800
-wnr- t1_j9phhzv wrote
Are you arguing that they shouldn't be "tax payer funded", or that they should be "tax payer funded" but also come with more enforcement against abuse?
mikere t1_j9pi54f wrote
nah do the lyft wait and save if you need to go to the ER
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9pj9jr wrote
Let me know what other job offers the ridiculously good health plan (valued at $18,000/yr according to the tax forms) unlimited sick leave, no termination without a hearing, shift differentials, meal allowances, free training for your license and CDL, guaranteed annual raises, and a pension that vest in 5 years, to a punk 18 yo with no work experience and a GED.
It’s hard work at low pay. But jobs that don’t require you to purchase specialized education in advance generally are.
-wnr- t1_j9pjdo6 wrote
We can very much afford what we're putting into Ukraine. Much of that value is the original sticker price of old or used equipment the US will replace anyway. The embarrassment of the Russian military is a huge windfall for the American defense industry. Poland alone tried to order 500 HIMARS which we can't even supply. All the weapons systems we sell will in turn generate billions in service contracts, eventual upgrades, and ammunition purchases that goes right back to the American economy.
Combine all that with neutering the Russian military and strengthening NATO unity; while putting zero American troops in harm's way. This has been the bargain of the century.
Neckwrecker t1_j9pjmh8 wrote
>Ukraine has nothing to do with corporations fucking everyone over.
It does have a little to do with it (defense contractors).
Constant_Speech_15 t1_j9plq53 wrote
Will this trickle down to emt pay, no matter, I'll call an uber, faster and cheaper.... even if i have to pay to have the cab cleaned
TranquilSeaOtter t1_j9plr8h wrote
I bet you're the first person to screech about communism when people talk about universal healthcare.
cakeversuspie t1_j9pm1ei wrote
This person gets it! Thank you!
StreamA7X t1_j9pm8wa wrote
It’s not unlimited sick leave
casicua t1_j9pmny4 wrote
Just take it from the NYPD budget, they’re useless anyway.
Scout-Penguin t1_j9pmp97 wrote
Literally 85% of the funding, over $300mm, for FDNY EMS is from non-tax sources; so, EMS in NYC is substantially based on a cost-recovery model.
Scout-Penguin t1_j9po1mv wrote
No; your taxes only pay for about 15% of the cost of FDNY EMS; the rest is funded through cost recovery.
PsychologicalLie1116 t1_j9po5vf wrote
How much do other ambulances cost?
atyppo t1_j9po7ft wrote
Highest taxes in the nation aren't already enough? How about cutting some bloat in government for once and giving the EMTs a raise from literal poverty wages?
knockatize t1_j9ponnc wrote
It is is partly a taxpayer funded service and should remain as such, but that can’t be defined as unlimited services to everyone everywhere forever.
There has to be a “shit list” for people who misuse the service, so that it’s still available for people with legit needs.
oceanblue966 t1_j9porgq wrote
Pension is tier 6 that isnt worth shit
epaulet-eva t1_j9pp6ez wrote
“Our raises were minuscule compared to what other first responders got,” he told The Post on Wednesday, referring to the $4,000 increase that raised the starting salary for an FDNY EMT to $39,386 in fiscal year 2022.”
This salary is shameful.
Even more shameful is using this meager increase to justify a huge bump in costs to people with no options or means to choose anything different. You can’t exactly shop around if you’re in cardiac arrest.
[deleted] t1_j9ppl7r wrote
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Butthole_Please t1_j9ppvjn wrote
Yea man. If it wasn’t for this pesky Ukraine situation taking up a tiny percent of our military budget we would have incredible healthcare coverage.
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9pq945 wrote
Ok fair. However you can get a light duty position that can last multiple years.
Grass8989 t1_j9pqcz3 wrote
Does this budget include the money that we send to foreign ally’s?
knockatize t1_j9pqh5r wrote
They will cost less once the widespread abuse of the system is addressed.
24,000 bogus 911 calls from one person?
Thousands of calls from one person to the same nonexistent address?
On top of the usual deluge of frequent flyers, cranks, pranks, Karens, and lonely old people?
If nothing is done, that’s as good as condoning it.
If FDNY and every other first responder agency doesn’t have a chronic-caller strategy that results in the bogus calls stopping, that’s failure.
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9pqoq5 wrote
Yeah, contribute 3% of your wages, get 50% for life starting at 55 or 80% if you wait till 60. What a travesty.
09-24-11 t1_j9pr6mb wrote
Hey guess what mr whatabout we STILL wouldn’t put money into social programs if we weren’t involved in Ukraine. That’s people our politicans value corporations over people. Wake up.
oceanblue966 t1_j9prw63 wrote
You're doing the exact same job, for a lower salary (adjusted for inflation), and a lower retirement package. You are sustaining tiers 1, 2, 3, and 4 while they no longer pay into the plan, and they are getting the long end of the stick. You get far better returns in a 401k, and no public job offers 403b matching.
"Guaranteed annual raises" = "1% raise, 3% if you get the best rating in the organization".
Its not a fair system, but it had to be done, because NYS and other states are realizing the pension system is NOT sustainable, but they are obligated to do whatever it takes (including fucking over current public employees) to fund those who have retired and moved to Florida, not even paying NYS taxes anymore, who are earning 100k+ a year on a pension.
jeffsayno t1_j9przkw wrote
and quicker
GnomeChomski t1_j9ps72x wrote
The person you're replying to is a 'fiscal conserv-'...I mean he's a fucking racist.
elkmeateater t1_j9pswlg wrote
It just means they get to bill more to medicaid. A large portion of EMS calls are drunk and or drug OD from the homeless who have no insurance. When they get to the hospital they get emergency medicaid which is then billed to the state.
[deleted] t1_j9pt3nb wrote
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GnomeChomski t1_j9ptl5y wrote
Racist assholes are convinced by carlson tucker that 'some people' are leeches on the system...and are gonna take their donut.
Jerund t1_j9pv29j wrote
If you are part of nycer, even if you retire in NYS, you don’t have to pay state tax. Doesn’t matter if they go to Florida or not.
StreamA7X t1_j9pv4vm wrote
You are correct. However, light duty caps you at 40 hour work weeks. Which basically destroys your paycheck because there is no overtime in it. You are correct though it definitely is hard work for low pay, and the insurance and benefits are pretty good.
flyingtamale t1_j9pw004 wrote
Don’t you have a Nassau County Secessionist meeting to be at?
ReadyExamination5239 t1_j9pwfms wrote
No, they go for “Send Rats Packing .”
oceanblue966 t1_j9pxmgc wrote
I was referring to property taxes (which generally fund public salaries), but I didn't know that. Thank you.
MyBlueBucket t1_j9pzedy wrote
you mean the "fuck you, I got mine" party? Yeah was pretty obvious lol
buzzybanjo t1_j9pzy97 wrote
both… both is good
spacelyspocet79 t1_j9q2rxn wrote
Ahhh yes greed ass corp wants to raise it
[deleted] t1_j9q2zzu wrote
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chug84 t1_j9q432y wrote
You sound mad you couldn't pass their test.
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9q4lac wrote
I’m vested thanks.
soaponsoaponsoap t1_j9q5pqt wrote
Yup. I work as a waitress in SoHo and one of my coworkers previously worked as an EMT making $18.75. He quit and is now working as a server / bartender making more money.
chug84 t1_j9q62px wrote
Vested in what exactly?
[deleted] t1_j9q7gqh wrote
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wanderaxb t1_j9qaewg wrote
This is interesting. I once called 911 for a violent homeless man on a subway platform and they said they’d dispatch an ambulance and not police. Kinda felt like EMTs wouldn’t be equipped for the violent aspect, and police wouldn’t be equipped for the potentially mentally ill aspect. I wonder if cases like this affect emergency response efficiency and cost.
Infinite_Carpenter t1_j9qarl3 wrote
The driver’s insurance paid it but that’s good to know.
TwoBehindTheEyes t1_j9qauyt wrote
We did spend 500b on the military last year, it's just that it was the Ukrainian military
P0stNutClarity t1_j9qaym2 wrote
Not too many rocks in Brooklyn. Try the Bronx maybe
P0stNutClarity t1_j9qb304 wrote
I’m from Brooklyn 🫡 geographically on LI but not politically so no.
TwoBehindTheEyes t1_j9qb5yh wrote
Over 500bil spent so far in the Ukraine, not exactly tiny regardless of if you support the spend or not. Proxy wars aren't cheap
[deleted] t1_j9qcuqi wrote
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OhGoodOhMan t1_j9qdojb wrote
Not even close. The US spends $4.3T annually on healthcare, which you might notice is several times larger than the defense budget, even if you include things like aid to Ukraine.
The problem is the lack of financial efficiency in American healthcare. We spend far more per person yet have worse health (using life expectancy as a proxy) compared to all other highly developed nations.
Commercial-Impress74 t1_j9qefb1 wrote
A ride in atl cost me 1500$ idk
Jimmy_kong253 t1_j9qeh3x wrote
Man can you imagine if the NYPD and FDNY justified raising property taxes by saying the firefighters and the police got a raise oh the cops and firefighters union's and their friends in the media would be having a blood vessel explode. Why does the FDNY hate their EMS division so much? Because it seems to be an ongoing thing since they took over EMS back in the day
Sparrow186 t1_j9qgjuw wrote
We’re too busy propping up European countries who can’t put up the coin to defend themselves. Waste of fucking cash.
deckerthehalls t1_j9qgwzj wrote
The billing varies by agency. Some places won't bill you at all unless you actually get transported to the hospital, and others will bill you just for being seen.
Infinite_Carpenter t1_j9qhmqd wrote
Yeah, I don’t think they touched her.
SharpCookie232 t1_j9qk8zn wrote
This is the way. Same for education.
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9qm41d wrote
You sound mad bro.
donttouchthirdrail t1_j9qo916 wrote
How is 1/9th of the city getting an ambulance ride. That’s an insane number
[deleted] t1_j9qodnx wrote
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bigfatwhitebitch t1_j9qopr1 wrote
Please do just walk. If you're able to walk you don't need an ambulance. Ambulance is in a life saving emergency, not a taxi ride.
aguafiestas t1_j9qoutv wrote
It is a very high number, but it probably has a smaller number of individuals getting multiple transports.
Looking a little more closely, I think this includes more than emergency ambulance transports. It says there are 1,121 "total 9-1-1- ambulance tours" per day, which rounds out to 409,165 per year. Which is a lot, but also a lot less than the 1,092,752 "hospital transports" listed. So that larger number presumably includes non-emergency transports (and potentially lower levels of care than a full ambulance).
edaduas t1_j9qp9rd wrote
They don't even transport you unless you sign first. In fact, if the ambulance is on the scene for you and you don't want their service, you've to sign a release form basically saying you refused their service.
MonteXristo t1_j9qpm72 wrote
Interesting. I broke my Tibia a few years back and didn’t sign anything. And they never sent me the bill. Did get a free hit of morphine tho 👍
raynernycz t1_j9qqlw9 wrote
Seriously, I know people that have actually driven to the hospital or taken ubers for emergencies. THIS IS AMERICA.
medievalkitty2 t1_j9qrsil wrote
NY passed a bill earlier this year that prohibits surprise medical billing. If you are in a situation where you do not have control over which doctor ends up being your provider - say a hospital anesthesiologist - you are not on the hook for their bill.
Erazmuz t1_j9qvhr4 wrote
You're misinterpreting what that means. Of the 1,425,719 reported calls for "medical emergencies", 1,092,752 resulted in a transport to the hospital.
FDNY does not provide non-emergency interfacility transport service. In New York City, non-emergency ambulance services are provided by private ambulance companies or a hospital's own EMS department.
It actually is that busy. It's not that a ninth of the population uses an ambulance a year, there are just some individuals who are hyper-utilizers.
Anecdotally, every paramedic or EMT will have regulars that we know very well. These are individuals often with poor healthcare literacy and chronic conditions that they are either unable or unwilling to address in a more appropriate setting than an ER. Then there's also the regular drunks, homeless people just trying to get a bed and a sandwich, you get the idea.
iv2892 t1_j9qvnes wrote
Im not exclusively blaming it on the Ukraine situation, but we always seem to have money for wars and stuff we don’t really need . Yes , we need a strong military but is not fair when other countries don’t cheap in nearly as much per citizen
_Maxolotl t1_j9qvsel wrote
If you're conscious and don't have a life threatening injury, don't give them your ID. No ID, no bill. Patients bill of rights mandates treatment regardless.
iv2892 t1_j9qw70p wrote
Not really , I think healthcare is one of those things we can do better .
_Maxolotl t1_j9qwar1 wrote
> and nypd cuts ffs
they already suggested cutting some bloat in government.
_Maxolotl t1_j9qwe4h wrote
we're not a civilized country.
09-24-11 t1_j9qwl0j wrote
Fair point and one you probably should have led with
chug84 t1_j9qwql2 wrote
Quite the contrary. I find it comical that clowns like you always suggest that civil servants are living the highlife, have the best medical insurance known to mankind, have the fattest pensions, etc. If you think they have it so good and all retire by 38, why not take the test and join them? Answer is you're either too dumb to pass the test and/or don't have the balls to do what they do.
_Maxolotl t1_j9qxmzk wrote
Tens of thousands of bureaucrats are employed by the government to do the job of determining whether or not people are "deserving" of government services, so that trash like you can be satisfied that people you disapprove of aren't getting help.
If we fired them all, we'd have a lot more money to spend on providing universal free emergency care.
monkeyballs2 t1_j9qxtt4 wrote
Lol reminds me of that time i stabbed myself through the hand and drove the two miles to the hospital but had to pull over to throw up and faint on the way.. it was such a minor injury and it didn’t occur to me to even get an uber.. id pretty much need someone hovering over me with the clear paddles to consent to an ambulance lol
aguafiestas t1_j9qymra wrote
Then what do you think is the discrepancy between their being over twice as many “hospital transports” as “9-1-1 ambulance tours?” Ambulance rides that start with something other than an emergency call?
ActualBlueCheckMark t1_j9r0vih wrote
People in the US abuse ambulance services.
Edit: Downvotes because you privileged fucks don’t know any EMTs.
JustinVieber t1_j9r33nd wrote
We're giving out secondhand equipment to NATO allies who then pass on last gen stuff to the Ukrainians. The destruction we are inflicting on Russia is so cost-efficient it's practically free. Not to mention all of the MIC deals it's generated for the US after the world learned how hard our weapons slap.
Erazmuz t1_j9r44vs wrote
An ambulance tour is a shift, not a transport. For whatever reason, it's always been called a tour. Units run for either 8 or 12 hour tours. It's just referring to how many units are run. Any unit will do multiple calls a tour.
knockatize t1_j9r4cip wrote
Not getting help?
First responders have to provide some kind of service to people they know full well are delusional because they've dealt with their shit thousands of times.
"One man with a cellphone has created enough havoc to be hauled over and over into court, but not enough to warrant a prison cell. He knows it’s wrong, and he apologizes to the judge, but he won’t stop*."*
...but whose cases account for countless hours in court, counseling sessions, medical appointments and other city services."
And we're on the hook for all of it. For everybody else in a city of 8 million who pulls this crap. Eventually some first responders figure out the calls are bogus but there's lots of turnover so it's a lesson that has to be repeatedly and expensively learned.
Services? There are craploads of services.
The services that work are the ones where he's put in a secure facility. With no phone.
volkommm t1_j9r4jkp wrote
Please articulate why?
[deleted] t1_j9r4rsz wrote
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cakeversuspie t1_j9r4ugn wrote
Ahh, so because some people abuse it, that means we should let others suffer by slapping them with $1k debt.
Do you think people in other countries don't also abuse it? I don't see those countries trying to charge over $1k for an ambulance.
Why do you people lack so much empathy?
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9r5709 wrote
If you don’t understand the benefits are factually incredible, I suggest you stock shelves at Target for 20 years and see what it gets you.
cantcountnoaccount t1_j9r58vl wrote
Vested in my NYCERS pension.
knockatize t1_j9r5tyd wrote
It is nowhere near a small minority of the total responses - and that's the problem.
That "small minority" is responsible for a big mess.
While many 911 calls do merit an emergency police response, unnecessarily dispatching armed officers to calls where their presence is unnecessary is more than just an ineffective use of safety resources; it can also create substantially adverse outcomes for communities of color, individuals with behavioral health disorders and disabilities, and other groups who have been disproportionately affected by the American criminal justice system.
Did anybody in this thread ever think that maybe there was a progressive reason for not being a damn fool about people who abuse the system?
GrayWing121 t1_j9r61x4 wrote
We heard you the first time
holiday1020 t1_j9r68ef wrote
I dont see many private companies operating around the city
chug84 t1_j9r7tw5 wrote
Sure you are 😅
chug84 t1_j9r89jx wrote
You say you're "vested" yet half of this bullshit you spewed is straight cap 😅🤣
ActualBlueCheckMark t1_j9r8r27 wrote
They get cut off in other countries or charged for it when they do.
This isn’t empathy, it is limited resources, when anyone can just order up an ambulance for any reason, they won’t be around for people who really need them.
Where is your empathy for those people?
aguafiestas t1_j9r9vjw wrote
Hmm okay, thanks for clearing that up.
knockatize t1_j9ra186 wrote
Being drunk is rarely a 911-level emergency requiring ambulance response. Not unless somebody is driving drunk or aspirating on their own vomit.
And nobody needs EMT response multiple times daily.
RChickenMan t1_j9rbjao wrote
> going forward, use “taxpayer funded” if you prize honesty and accuracy
You can't truly expect the general population to integrate conservative talking points into their everyday speech. It's widely understood that "free" in the context of government services does indeed refer to taxpayer-funded. This whole "it's not free it's taxpayer-funded" thing isn't the "gotcha" that you think it is.
RChickenMan t1_j9rc3mf wrote
Also there have been laws recently which overhaul if and how medical billing can affect your credit report. If a medical collection does end up on your credit report, it must be completely removed and your credit score completely restored as soon as it's paid off. So there's basically no reason to ever pay any medical bill unless it's in collections. My strategy is to ignore any and all medical bills and use my credit report as a "master medical bill" and only pay those in collections (and even then, only the ones which are "fair and square," so to speak).
scienceguy43 t1_j9rd9st wrote
Literally like taxis. There are people who call an ambulance to get them across town because it is cheaper than Uber.
knockatize t1_j9rdh6r wrote
Fine, call them free if you'd like.
You still can't endlessly dump false-alarm and non-emergency calls on EMTs and expect them to sit there and take it. Not for any wage.
You also don't want cops responding to non-emergencies, do you? That's the leftist talking point, but when some eager beaver fresh out of the academy arrives on the scene because such is the insistence of the Reddit masses, don't be shocked when a mentally-ill repeat caller who should have been in an inpatient facility gets plugged.
deckerthehalls t1_j9recea wrote
You also get double billed for hospitals because FDNY bills for an NYC ambulance in addition to the actual hospital. I forgot how exactly the bill looks.
C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9riefw wrote
Lol, the city literally just cut retiree’s heathcare. What ‘Cadillac’ plan are you referring to? Medicare Advantage?
C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9ritft wrote
I get that it isn’t, but no other emergency service charges you for it. You don’t get a bill when you need a cop, you don’t get a bill when your house is on fire, but you get a bill if you have a medical emergency.
C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9rix6y wrote
So why don’t we do that, instead of charging everybody?
_Maxolotl t1_j9rrmdt wrote
see above
nickelflow t1_j9rtppw wrote
Yes, paramedics don’t make minimum wage. But their salary is still not the best compared to the COL in NYC.
1martini t1_j9s4w99 wrote
Because when you send an EMS bill to most people (ie people that aren't abusing the ambulance service) it gets sent to insurance and paid or paid out of pocket. However, when the ambulance picks up a john doe who doesn't have their insurance and never even provides a real name or contact information, there's nobody to send a bill too. You can't "just charge the people abusing it" because it's not a service that gets denied if people don't pay.
​
See u/knockatize's post. You think someone who calls thousands of ambulances actually pays for each call? How about somebody who overdoses in the street?
oy_says_ake t1_j9safsw wrote
It seems likely that these increased fees reflect increased real costs for the city.
in late 2021 nyc ems employees agreed a new contract covering june 2018 - july 2022. The back pay for the new agreement’s raises gets paid out lump sum.
The point: The city quoted the net cost of that agreement for fy24 as $73.7 million. The post article we’re commenting on says the new fees will raise ~$16 million in fy24. So even with raised fees we’re still $57 million short of covering our new labor costs.
And remember, now they’re out of contract again, so you can already begin factoring in the eventual raise they’ll be getting with back pay to july 2022.
Beyond that ambulances themselves have been in drastic shortage, which probably increases our maintenance costs substantially and increases the per unit cost of any ambulances we are able to buy.
tgblack t1_j9sep8t wrote
Careful, don’t give them any ideas!
Sad-Principle3781 t1_j9sf6so wrote
That's hilarious. I'd say look on the bright side. Less people calling an ambulance for frivolous trips or calling a less expensive ride for themselves.
SuperTaco12 t1_j9sn853 wrote
Its crazy bc rn one ambulance ride is more than the monthly wage of an ems
knockatize t1_j9srr4j wrote
It’s not empathy people lack. It’s money.
The taxpayer is not a bottomless source of cash to set on fire. Especially not on behalf of people who should have been in custody all along, be it inpatient or plain old jail.
Metroncat t1_j9su6nz wrote
Many people who call an ambulance for frivolous trips, don’t have any money to pay for them in the first place. Once, in the span of a week, I saw an ambulance pick up a homeless dude, who ended up on back on the street the next day in a hospital gown. A few days later, they picked him up again. That is just one week.
ryanohkay t1_j9t626h wrote
If taking an ambulance in NYC with Medicaid had $100 copay, EMS call volume and NYC would drop by half at least.
C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9t7ylt wrote
Why not have that law on the books, but charge those who abuse it either financially or criminally? I’d rather it be free and the abuse that’s rampant now continues, versus the current rampant abuse in addition to charging people who have the audacity to give their real name and insurance info, ya know?
1martini t1_j9t8k1s wrote
How do you charge someone financially or criminally though? If they won't give you any information, your options are to either release them and never see any money, or call the police and never see any money; not to mention the countless legal and ethical issues with trying to legally charge people who use medical services.
​
It's not just people who call 911 for fun, it's drug addicts who repeatedly overdose and will never pay, and people without health insurance who call an ambulance and go to the ER for routine issues. You can't just deny care because they won't pay, there's an obligation, both legally and ethically, to treat and stabalize them, yet you're never going to see a dime from them.
polski71 t1_j9tbkw4 wrote
Slept in my car in the station parking lot March 2020. Was stupid common.
polski71 t1_j9tbu80 wrote
And you don’t get a choice for city ambulance (fdny) or non city (mt sinai, presby etc). I know for fdny there’s supposed to only be a bill for complete transports, but I always wondered if the rules were different for voluntary hospital units. It’s closest available unit when you dial 911 so it’s a dice roll if that’s fdny, or other
deckerthehalls t1_j9te86x wrote
Correct. The voluntary hospitals generally service the immediate area around them, but they can go pretty far depending on the agency. I mean I've been sent to entirely different boros while I'm working. You could call 911 in Manhattan and get a hospital unit from Queens or Brooklyn depending on what it is and where and what units are available.
Generally speaking though, the billing issue varies by agency. I know that Northwell ambulances do not bill unless you're transported. Pretty sure NYU and Presby are like that too. I guess Mount Sinai and others bill for RMA/AMA (refused medical attention). You can get around that by literally saying "no thanks I'm good" and walking away from them if you don't want help. Altho if you or someone else called an ambulance for you, chances are that there's something concerning and you should at least be evaluated if not transported. For me, I'd have to be unconscious to go by ambulance bc I'm stubborn.
EMS providers vary widely tho. I'll say that. Sometimes you get an excellent crew. Other times you're getting Dumb and Dumber. The EMS system in NYC and nationwide is hemorrhaging from the inside. We lost a LOT of great people before and during COVID, and it's hard to recruit good people now too. People don't wanna work in this profession anymore bc of the poor treatment and pay that we get. I don't regret my time in EMS tho.
DirtySkell t1_j9tf0ww wrote
I can personally name at least 5 patients of mine whom go to the hospital via ambulance at least 5 times a week. It's usually not even with the Fire Department but a voluntary ambulance instead which I believe isn't included in that cited metric.
C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9tlwqe wrote
I don’t think anyone is saying deny care to people. I think it’s that if it’s determined to be medically egregious to call an ambulance for something, then they’ll be charged for it.
Either way, even if they didn’t implement that, it doesn’t change the amount of abusive 911 calls in the system, so why punish those who carry insurance or give their real info? Seems by not making it free for all, it continues to encourage those who abuse the system to use it while discouraging those who might truly need it - a worst of both worlds situation, right?
someliskguy t1_j9ts3ty wrote
Next up: FDNY adds Square terminal with 20% suggested tip.
twozerothreeeight t1_j9uhjck wrote
"ambulance tours" is an indication of the amount of units on the road. FDNY or hospital based 911 ambulances work, AFAIK, 8 or 12 hour tours. So a unit that is scheduled for 3 8 hour tours, that is actually in service for those tours, would be credited for 3 per day, or at total of 1095 per year.
I know it sounds weird, but when I worked in EMS they treated the different tours like they were entirely separate units. Performance metrics were measured and reported per individual tour.
twozerothreeeight t1_j9uhmpk wrote
A few people take a lot of trips to the hospital.
RChickenMan t1_j9uur0i wrote
Well no, but you also can't expect people to sit there and take it when vast swaths of our society are unable to afford access to medical care?
knockatize t1_j9uykmz wrote
Tell it to the people who waste emergency response resources, and the politicians who enable them. A whole lot of access opens up then, but politicians don’t want to be in the position of saying “no” to anybody.
kinovelo t1_j9wzloc wrote
No, after 5 years, they make well over $120K all-in comp when you include pensions and fringe benefits, which are equal to over 100% of the base salary. And before you try to argue with me, I’d be completely fine with all EMTs making $100K if they eliminate all pensions, replacing it with a max 5% 401K match, and only paid up to $1K a month in subsidies to healthcare plans that you could buy at market rate on the NY State healthcare marketplace, which would stop after they stopped working.
OneYungGun t1_ja4yxql wrote
Pretty crazy. Hatzola EMS has faster response times than FDNY, doesn't charge, and doesn't pay it's workers, they are volunteers.
Maybe more communities and neighborhoods ought to adopt a volunteer model rather than the model which has been failing for decades.
[deleted] t1_ja6wxcf wrote
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Dalybrad2323 t1_ja6x00f wrote
Even if it was completely free you still shouldn’t be calling 911 for a cut on your finger
[deleted] t1_ja6x1lm wrote
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[deleted] t1_jacqil9 wrote
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