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danmusic666 t1_jdato7f wrote

New high jump comin

239

mortredclay t1_jdcgyxy wrote

Nah, fare jumpers just gonna ride you real close when you card through.

Edit: Let's call it speed run.

45

AbsentEmpire t1_jddqcrd wrote

Naw they'll just get a $5 glass breaker and smash out the door since there will 100% be no SEPTA police anywhere near the train or station.

They should have just bought the gates that NJT has, they work pretty well, and incorporating tap in tap out would solve a lot obvious exploits that already happen with the wheelchair gates.

21

[deleted] t1_jdaxmzg wrote

[deleted]

167

DanHassler0 t1_jdaya82 wrote

Yup, most recently to allow for NFC open payments, which was the entire plan when Septa key was envisioned many years ago. Although in their defense technology has changed and an upgrade really isn't unexpected.

The only issue is they still haven't launched NFC open payments.

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CerealJello t1_jdclzo2 wrote

After taking the NYC subway with OMNY payment, NFC payments can't come soon enough. I just hope they don't do something stupid like in DC where you still need to pay $2 to activate a "virtual card". The $5 fee for SEPTA key cards is a joke when the cards have a set expiration date.

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DanHassler0 t1_jdcndr0 wrote

The $5 is fully refunded when you register your card. I believe you can technically do it twice, so theoretically by the time you need a third card they should be using NFC open payments.

19

CerealJello t1_jdcnkep wrote

I keep two extra cards on hand for guests, and I've already had one card expire, so I'm well past the limit. This would obviously not have been an issue if we could do multiple taps. The eTix on the app kind of fixes this problem, but I haven't tried it out with multiple riders yet.

12

Hanger-on t1_jdcr8fs wrote

I think you can do it for two active Key Cards per email address. I have 4 of them at home, just registered under different gmail accounts so I could get the refund.

4

prettylittlearrow t1_jdds30s wrote

They stopped refunding the $5 FWIW

4

DanHassler0 t1_jdi1zjj wrote

"Please note, it costs $4.95 to get a Key card. As an incentive to protect your Pass or Travel Wallet funds, against loss or theft, SEPTA offers a reimbursement when you register a new Key card. If you register your Key card within 30 days of the purchase date, the $4.95 fee will automatically be applied to your Key card Travel Wallet which can be used immediately to pay for individual rides or towards the future purchase of any pass. Limited to two cards per customer account. You can register your card online at SEPTAKey.org or by calling the Key Customer Call Center at 1-855-567-3782."

https://www.iseptaphilly.com/key#:~:text=Plus%20SEPTA%20will%20reimburse%20the,your%20Key%20card%20Travel%20Wallet.

Are you sure? The website still says they refund you.

3

prettylittlearrow t1_jdni4qg wrote

I've tried a few times to register and it didn't refund me, I've had friends say the same when they tried. it's SEPTA, who knows at this point lol

2

mortgagepants t1_jdcpqdn wrote

i was in dc two weeks ago. paid an extra two dollars for a 2 dollar ride. if you want people to take transit as a choice, a one time paper ticket should be an option.

6

thecw t1_jdi1m52 wrote

The SEPTA Key Twitter account has been saying NFC is in testing and coming soon now that Tix is launched.

1

[deleted] t1_jdbffxi wrote

[deleted]

47

FordMaverickFan t1_jdbrt9w wrote

Yea shame that Boston, NYC, Chicago and Camden didn't have a fully functioning system before the Key RFP was even posted.

To your point no one at SEPTA suffered any consequences for the millions in overruns and missed deadlines.

33

mortgagepants t1_jdcpynl wrote

this is my biggest beef too. septa has no problem hopping on the MBTA project for their double decker trains, but a fare system that will impact every rider? of course that's the time to blaze a trail.

anyone know the company who has the contract? maybe they're connected in some way with the septa board members.

7

thecw t1_jdi1vbo wrote

It was originally Xerox, not sure if it still is. The big problem was that Xerox had never done a fare system before, but they were the lowest bidder.

3

reggitor t1_jdc0xxs wrote

The bigger the corporation, the closer it gets to the government

16

eyevarz t1_jdcl60b wrote

Gotta support small business every chance you’ve got.

1

dwntwnleroybrwn t1_jdh9y4e wrote

Bullshit. Philly decision makers are borderline mentally deficit. Go to any major city around the world and you'll see technologies that can be easily leveraged. Hell, London has had phone tap to pay on busses for years.

Just another example of corrupt incompetent city leaders.

2

Odd_Push_307 t1_jddmy2k wrote

I don’t think that’s the issue people have. It’s that corporations are generally spending private money. It’s kind of a majorly huge difference.

1

PCPenhale t1_jdciryh wrote

And you still have to get your card scanned multiple times even though you’ve already scanned on the platform. Two things I’d love to see: Adding a septa pass to an electronic wallet, and/or paying via electronic wallet on the platform or trolley.

2

thecw t1_jdi1k8o wrote

The boopers are a modular component of the gate itself.

1

DanHassler0 t1_jday1uc wrote

I'm super excited to see Septa actually start doing something potentially meaningful and visible to help solve their problems. That is assuming these aren't delayed by many years like most other Septa projects, where is open/NFC payments that was promised years ago?

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Scumandvillany t1_jdb2j26 wrote

They passed the resolution in the last meeting. They're buying them, but they're buying them from the same company that designed septa key. Hopefully it goes well.

32

wallythegoose t1_jdb3sfq wrote

They should just contract the PATCO gate designer.

16

sigourneybeaver666 t1_jdb50zl wrote

Those are easy to just walk straight through.

3

changeorchange t1_jdb8q0x wrote

I rarely see people jumping the turnstile but every day I see multiple people going through the handicap gates on one swipe. These look the same as those but taller.

16

sigourneybeaver666 t1_jdcj03z wrote

I almost always see someone push their body weight into the glass and pry it open to go through. It looks relatively easy.

7

rndljfry t1_jdciyvs wrote

>I'm super excited to see Septa actually start doing something potentially meaningful and visible to help solve their problems.

I find it odd that the article says there are about 2,800 fare jumps in the year. At $2.50 per jump it seems like we are chasing about $7,000 in free subway rides.

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NoREEEEEEtilBrooklyn t1_jdcjhjn wrote

That sounds very, very low.

10

rndljfry t1_jdcvq6t wrote

Sure, and "reported" is obviously a huge consraint on that number.

At $2.50 per evasion and $925,000 for two stations' worth of gates, it seems like it's going to take a long time to recoup this investment.

3

AbsentEmpire t1_jdd72g4 wrote

The investment is more about keeping the problems that fair jumpers bring into system out of the system. The homeless drug addicts smoking crack on the subway drive away multiple more users than just their one fair.

5

rndljfry t1_jdd7tly wrote

>The homeless drug addicts smoking crack on the subway drive away multiple more users than just their one fair.

The thing about someone who can pull together enough money for a score is that they can pull together enough money for a fare if it gets them on the train for unlimited time.

3

AbsentEmpire t1_jdds7xf wrote

Yep, which is also why SEPTA needs to start kicking them off the system.

3

randym99 t1_jdd7los wrote

To be fare (ba-dum-tsh), that math isn't factoring any increase in ridership SEPTA might expect to experience from improving conditions on the trains (by say deterring homeless etc. from living in stations / on trains)

3

randym99 t1_jdd6hob wrote

I was at Cecil B Moore the other day, mid-day, and watched probably 10 people skinny past or hop over the turnstile in the span of like 10 minutes. Let's conservatively call it 10 jumps an hour at CBM, only consider 12 hours per day, and use the 2018 "weekday ridership" numbers by station from the BSL wiki. That's ~3.5% of total riders that aren't paying (and maybe higher since ridership is way down from 2018); does that sound directionally correct? Applying that to annual BSL + MFL ridership of ~35M (2022 stats; waaay tf down from pre-COVID haha wow) suggests an annual fare jump count of ~1.2M. At $2 per, that's $2.4M in evaded fare (assuming 100% of fare-jumpers turn into fare-payers) which is not close to immediate payback for these new gates. But I'm still for the move because it ought to significantly improve the SEPTA experience and hopefully help increase ridership.

5

WikiSummarizerBot t1_jdd6jmz wrote

Broad Street Line

>The Broad Street Line (BSL), also known as the Broad Street subway (BSS), Orange Line, or Broad Line, is a subway line owned by the city of Philadelphia and operated by the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA). The line runs primarily north-south from the Fern Rock Transportation Center in North Philadelphia through Center City Philadelphia to NRG station at Pattison Avenue in South Philadelphia; the latter station provides access to the stadiums and arenas for the city's major professional sports teams at the South Philadelphia Sports Complex, about a quarter mile away.

^([ )^(F.A.Q)^( | )^(Opt Out)^( | )^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)^( | )^(GitHub)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)

−3

dirtymatt t1_jdd4nzy wrote

There's no way the number of fare jumps is that low. I see multiple on a daily basis, and it's not like I'm camping out there watching. This is just what I observe in the few seconds I'm near the turnstiles.

4

rndljfry t1_jdd69vm wrote

Of course it's under-reported, but people are also seriously overestimating how their personal experience relates to the whole picture.

2

dirtymatt t1_jddgset wrote

Let's just assume I'm right and that I see 2 fare jumpers per day. That's 10 a week, or about 520 per year. That's more than a sixth of the quoted number that one person is witnessing at one station in a small window of time. Admittedly, I'm primarily travelling during rush hour when there are more people travelling, and probably more fare jumps are happening during that time, but I just don't see any possible way the quoted number is close to accurate. It wouldn't shock me at all if the real number was 100x higher.

3

_token_black t1_jdd86fi wrote

There's usually somebody just sitting at the handicapped gate at Norristown to let people on the high speed line. Probably happens more than 2800 times in a year just there.

3

rndljfry t1_jdda7q2 wrote

It seems like that could be addressed for less than a million dollars if it’s so obvious, no?

2

AbsentEmpire t1_jdds1to wrote

Here's where SEPTA's getting that number:

>Nearly 2,800 fare evasion cases were reported on SEPTA last year — an increase of more than 800 from 2021. Busch said the new gates would more accurately track the number of fare evaders on the system.

>“Right now, we have the numbers to go on from police in terms of how many citations they’re issuing. We know that doesn’t fully capture the picture with fare evasion,” Busch added.

The reason it's low is because they have almost zero transit police on the system at any given time. So with that handful of transit cops they caught 2,800, which means you can easily multiply that number by 3 to get close to the real number of fair evasions.

2

mistersausage t1_jdf2nxt wrote

It says "cases" so I assume they mean prosecutions or tickets given out.

1

Scumandvillany t1_jdb2eq6 wrote

When did we get to the point of everything needing a pilot program? Like do half the stations this year and half next.

That said, I'm glad they're doing something.

I've been saying exclude and remove the smokers and shitters and shooters from transit. Septa is not and should not be responsible for the homeless population. Its seriously deterring lots of people from using the el. The worst is smoothbrain idiots out there defending or criticizing plans to do something about it, or making fun of people who talk about smoking or drug use like they're suburban babies. Get fucked with that attitude.

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Thot_P0cket t1_jdbt5c2 wrote

> When did we get to the point of everything needing a pilot program?

My favorite is still the pilot program for street sweeping. The Empire State Building was constructed in its entirety faster than Philadelphia can figure out how to tackle street sweeping.

36

LBITruckee t1_jdcaevo wrote

They need to go back to allowing cars to being towed before being ticketed.

13

LBITruckee t1_jdcabrp wrote

I moved near fishtown with the plan to take the train into the CC for work.

The train is one of, if not the worst, experiences I have ever had in Philly since moving here ten years ago. It’s a shit hole…literally. The homeless and junkies have taken the system over. They should make it impossible to access the stations without paying. All the homeless should be removed. As you said, it’s not the responsibility of septa to take care of the homeless population. I’m all for paying more in taxes to help house and feed people. There is zero reason why myself or anyone should feel unsafe at 3pm on a Tuesday taking the train.

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estellato12 t1_jdcjcuk wrote

I sometimes literally get off a stop or two early to avoid certain ones. Some of them you can’t even walk up the stairs.

7

Wuz314159 t1_jdatkcv wrote

$5million for fare evasion enforcement to recover $5,000 in lost fares?

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RiderRob t1_jdauk96 wrote

What is the value of increasing ridership by reducing crime on Septa? Helluva lot more than $5,000.

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phljoe2 t1_jdc9j95 wrote

Exactly. Does anyone really think the criminals and troublemakers pay fares? Do you think the drug addicts load up their Septa Key Card wallets?

18

Scumandvillany t1_jdb2qim wrote

When they buy more the cost will go down per station. Fare evasion is a serious issue and most of the people jumping are causing problems on the trains. They need to be excluded and the trains should be for riders only. Septa is not and should not be a homeless shelter

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Wuz314159 t1_jdb6zgm wrote

Just make the trains free. Simple.

−25

Scumandvillany t1_jdb7ryb wrote

I guess you're gonna kick in the 600 million in missed revenue every year? The "free transit" take is Pollyanna at best, and irresponsible beyond belief. Not to mention that the ONLY people left on the El will be homeless addicts. It's absurd.

17

[deleted] t1_jdc9xsg wrote

I get that it doesn’t work but I really like the idea of spending other people’s money (evil laugh)

4

Diditforthevine69 t1_jdbewk5 wrote

They spend more setting up, running, updating (all out of date now), stopping, paying workers to sit at stops all to make people pay. 40% of septa income is via city not fare. Spend the money on septa cops or community safety officers.

Addicts and homeless are people too. Safety and payment are not the same. Free and safe can exist.

Edit: source https://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/2016/11/07/who-pays-for-septa/ and not most but 40% of revenue is from state

https://whyy.org/articles/ellison-septa-fare-free-opinion/amp/

−10

AbsentEmpire t1_jdcyrsc wrote

That's probably the worst thing that SEPTA could do, and would all but guarantee it gets turned into the mobile drug addict homeless shelter, driving ridership to near zero and seeing the abandonment of the system by the counties and state.

Why do hate public transportation so much?

1

wallythegoose t1_jdb47tw wrote

The fare system helps to prevent ne'er do wells from accessing the trains, a la regional rail and PATCO.

8

thespiff t1_jdca167 wrote

Where are you getting these numbers?

2

mr__moose t1_jdeq6ic wrote

No way are lost fares that low, I only ride the El 4x a week and I see people jumping the turnstile every single time I ride.

1

notnobodyspecial t1_jdb0riz wrote

Can't implement this without making ticketing quick and 100% reliable. SEPTA key sucks and the fare machines are unbearably slow.

If I'm faced with waiting 5 minutes to process a fare at a kiosk, and miss a train that likely won't come for another 20 minutes, then I'm sure as hell going to jump the gates.

Focus on safety, reliability and convenience, then fare evasion.

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estellato12 t1_jdcjh0d wrote

I mean I just have it auto reload on my phone every Monday and really have never had an issue with my card…

13

AnDraoi t1_jdcp8mk wrote

Yeah septa key is actually fairly good imo

10

notnobodyspecial t1_jdcmmpu wrote

I have my card auto reload as well - but not everyone has a septa key (tourists) and sometimes you need to buy a one off fare.

I've had a bunch of small issues with the card, it's nothing that you can't deal with but it's just a stupid waste of time that you shouldn't have to deal with.

3

tagged2high t1_jdb5ylx wrote

Now they'll just run in behind someone else (see the handicap turnstiles)

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APettyJ OP t1_jdb6cy1 wrote

"The gates, from Conduent Transport Solutions, include a 3D imaging system that can sound an alarm if someone tries to piggyback their way past the gate without paying. The sensors can also recognize wheelchairs, strollers and luggage."

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kellyoohh t1_jdc8mrg wrote

I don’t think many would be deterred by an alarm. I’ve seen turnstile jumpers look directly into the face of the SEPTA employee as they’re doing it, and just keep on going.

The most effective to me seemed to be the full body the turnstiles they installed in parts of 30th street, but I also hate them as they cause congestion so I don’t know.

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rndljfry t1_jdci3pz wrote

>The SEPTA board is set to approve a $925,000 contract for the 3D gates on Thursday, with delivery expected late this year.
>
>Nearly 2,800 fare evasion cases were reported on SEPTA last year — an increase of more than 800 from 2021. Busch said the new gates would more accurately track the number of fare evaders on the system.

Hmm... 2,8000 * 2.50 = $7,000

High tech 3D imaging gates at two subway stations: $925,000.

Principles seem really expensive lol

17

estellato12 t1_jdcj40i wrote

i would like to atleast quadruple that number they provided lol. i think i can sit at one station for a day and see like 100 people hop haha

14

TheMauryShiow t1_jdckdpi wrote

Yeah reporting 2,800 fare evasion cases comes out to 7.7 fare jumps per day. I see around 3-5 every time I ride the subway, which is usually twice a day, sometimes thee times. What a hilariously low number that is.

10

rndljfry t1_jdd0hm8 wrote

at 10x the reported number we are approaching a $70k problem with a $975k "pilot program".

9

emlynhughes t1_jdd8pj4 wrote

The issue isn't really the fares. It's the other problems they cause on the subway that inconvenience other passengers.

1

rndljfry t1_jdd9u1m wrote

I wonder where they'll take their problems, then.

1

emlynhughes t1_jdda4ir wrote

This mentality of just selling out public transportation on this reddit always blows my mind.

Especially with something as important to a city as public transportation.

2

rndljfry t1_jddapkb wrote

I'm not sure what you mean. Once you kick them out of the subway, they hang around on the sidewalk next to the subway. Then people are still afraid to walk to the subway. Panhandlers go where there are people. Homeless people go where they can be comfortable. Kids cause trouble for laughs.

1

emlynhughes t1_jddb9e1 wrote

Maybe that should be addressed as well?

Not just turning the El into a homeless shelter or day care to save the rest of the city.

3

rndljfry t1_jddbtk1 wrote

I guess ultimately the idea that the fare-jumping is the root of the problem just really doesn't feel right to me. Subway upgrades are cool.

0

randym99 t1_jdd80m6 wrote

2,800 reported fare jumps works out to a single fare jump per week at each station on the BSL and MFL. That 2,800 number might very well be off by 100x, in which case $700k every year is an excellent payback.

0

rndljfry t1_jddb3i8 wrote

$975,000 for two stations.

Maybe if there were 195,000 jumps per station per year. That's 535/station/day.

0

randym99 t1_jddbyk8 wrote

195k per station per year would be a 1 year payback, ignoring all benefit from cleaning the system up for honest riders. I'd be thrilled with a 5 year payback, which would require preventing 39k fare jumps per year per station, which is like 4-5 fare jumps per hour, which is probably in the ballpark of the actual situation on the ground today.

2

hamdynasty t1_jdcp8pj wrote

People already on the platform trigger the exit mechanism so others can enter through the handicap gate. Sometimes it feels like half the riders haven't payed.

5

estellato12 t1_jdd1yc7 wrote

I think at some stations that actually is the correct stat, that only 50% pay. I can use 34th as an example, I do go to Drexel but always pay but definitely when going out at night, I don't think anyone else bothers to pay.

There is no SEPTA attendant and no real encouragement to pay, just out of good faith.

Also yeah everyday I leave city hall, someone comes in behind me on the handicap one haha.

3

rndljfry t1_jdczrwr wrote

so... maybe $28,000 dollars lost based on your feelings still leaves a pretty significant gap to $925,000 for 2 stations * the whole BSL and MFL networks, no?

1

estellato12 t1_jdd1l2t wrote

mainly I was just saying definitely more than 2.8k people hop each year (probably far more than 11,200 do), wasn't really commenting on the need.

however, I do think it is worth the investment. would certainly provide safer and cleaner platforms, which is a big reason why ridership is down. so factoring in more people actually paying (who knows how many people actually do hop, I would assume it is very high) and an increase in ridership, then you can maybe pay off the investment in a decade (which for infrastructure upgrades that is pretty decent). of course you would have to factor in yearly maintenance, but overall I do think these improved gates do a whole lot more than making sure people pay. I bet way more people would ride the subway if it was safer. No reason I should feel on edge at 3pm on a Thursday... or be walking past a pool of blood, etc. (yes that has happened).

I just hope that city also takes more time to address homelessness because it shouldn't be on SEPTA to be the only location where they can have any kind of shelter, and if the gates are improved and the housing/shelter need isn't met then we are in full a ton more issues.

5

rndljfry t1_jdd31ky wrote

I’m usually not one to discourage investing in long term improvements, I just find the case they’re making to be absurd based on these numbers. I guess I just wonder if “high-tech” is needed for this exact problem.

I also find it hard to believe that the crime that people are concerned about is stealing a $3 ride on the train. Gates aren’t going to stop people from fighting and doing drugs or whatever.

2

estellato12 t1_jdd856s wrote

I believe the gates do stop people from bringing that down onto the platforms. People also aren't going to pay to loiter on the platforms. It will make it so people using the transit, actually are there to use it. Of course there will still be crime, people littering, etc. but I would say this definitely would reduce it.

I know SEPTA likes to do a million pilot programs and not actually follow through but I think just comparing one station to with these to the rest would show their use. Of course this all assumes SEPTA decides to implement something properly.

2

rndljfry t1_jdd8v4t wrote

>People also aren't going to pay to loiter on the platforms.

For real, which people are jumping and standing on platforms indefinitely? I've only ever seen people rush through when the train pulls up so they aren't stuck standing there with nowhere to go.

1

estellato12 t1_jdefpnr wrote

I mean at the stations I use everyday they sure do, definitely contribute to most of the trash down there for sure. But I am sure it all depends on each station and area as well. Experiences can always vary

2

kellyoohh t1_jdckkuj wrote

Totally agree. They could probably save money by just placing SEPTA police at high-use stations. Or honestly a long list of literally anything else.

1

thebruns t1_jdcxefv wrote

MTA in NYC turned off the alarms at gates because they were basically on full time making the experience shit for everyone else

6

courageous_liquid t1_jdd6mru wrote

> full body the turnstiles

which aren't ADA compliant and cause issues in emergencies, those things are awful

1

Odd-Emergency5839 t1_jdje8mt wrote

The emergency doors in nyc have alarms too but people routinely hold them open despite the alarm sounding. So at a lot of stations they just disabled the alarm so it’s not constantly going off

2

sluman001 t1_jdbal43 wrote

These and a Septa cop at every station on the MFL. You don’t pay, you get tossed. You evade, you get arrested. Harsh, maybe but the shit needs to stop.

28

AbsentEmpire t1_jddhr57 wrote

Society doesn't function well when we fail to enforce our own rules and standards. That's how the situation here has gotten so shitty.

5

hdhcnsnd t1_jdax8wq wrote

Do this at all of the stations

27

APettyJ OP t1_jdaxfhj wrote

On both subway lines (BSL as well as MFL)

23

LBITruckee t1_jdc9tqy wrote

How about…. Get more transit police, get tap pay, clean the literal trash off the train, stop letting junkies shoot up on the train, stop letting people take actual shits on the train, stop letting people smoke on the train, stop delaying the trains….

If you’re so concerned about people not paying then actually get people to stop them in conjunction with better turnstiles.

22

Kenz0Cree t1_jdcytc0 wrote

If you only knew they have gotten big raises the last 2 contracts to basically stare at camera’s all day and the minimum needed patroling.

2

HarrowingChad t1_jdc89yn wrote

I rode the El for the first time in years and while waiting for the train to arrive at 2nd Street, people were just freely walking in and out of the handicapped-accessible turnstile. Guess what they were doing on the platform? Guess how many SEPTA employees or transit police were at the station?

16

teamgreen74 t1_jdcjcxi wrote

Maybe they should spend that money on making the fucking trains actually be on time for once. Stop raising fares to buy shit like this and fix the infrastructure that we have.

Ffs they are trains they drive on tracks so why isn’t it an automated system of self-driving trains like in other cities?

13

therealsteelydan t1_jdctyol wrote

I know it seems like a small barrier to automation but there's still the labor issue. I'm very pro-union but I draw the line at people working jobs that don't need to exist. NYC's L train is basically completely automated but they still have to have an operator and conductor because of the labor agreements. SEPTA can't even get rid of the token booth position, good luck ever getting rid of the operator position. And I'm slightly furious that I have to cross Spring Garden to enter to BSL because of a stupid labor contract (they can't open the turnstiles unless there's a token booth employee present).

7

mr__moose t1_jdeqqwz wrote

Lol the fucking booth operators that don't warn you when the train isn't running and just let you waste a fare? Fuck those useless assholes.

1

rossdowdell t1_jdau3lf wrote

They look like a urinal.

As if the hobos need encouragement.

10

APettyJ OP t1_jdauhkc wrote

Maybe this can keep them off the train, or at least help.

19

rossdowdell t1_jdav399 wrote

I asked a SEPTA official in December how they are getting on and off the platforms. He told me there are organized groups of people that go around helping them with fares.

That feels conspiratorial to me, but this official swore by his claim.

10

justaphage42 t1_jdb0h1z wrote

I mean, they don’t even need organized groups like…panhandling $2.50 seems pretty feasible to me.

17

Gobirds831 t1_jdb5vf8 wrote

If slam your quad/glutes hard enough into the turnstile it will turn and those slamming into them are hopped on drugs so they don’t feel a thing doing it

17

thespiff t1_jdc9vjk wrote

If you pull the turnstile towards you halfway (as if a person is exiting through it) it creates a gap that you can slip through discretely. This is what most adults who farejump do. Teens hop over.

11

schoschja t1_jdcvlub wrote

don't forget waving your hand at the sensor on the handicapped turnstile to make it think someone is exiting!

8

Tarantinotwin t1_jdb288p wrote

That septa cop was just bored on the job making stuff up. They just hop the turnstiles lol

9

APettyJ OP t1_jdavghe wrote

🤦🏾‍♂️

7

rossdowdell t1_jdbc7uz wrote

Because of my job, I've learned to remain implacable when told things that seem weird. But yeah, he got side eye when he said this.

2

Jabroni_Guy t1_jdbmz8m wrote

They can pee on it if it keeps them from bothering me on the train

1

rndljfry t1_jdcinwc wrote

>The gates, from Conduent Transport Solutions, include a 3D imaging system that can sound an alarm if someone tries to piggyback their way past the gate without paying. The sensors can also recognize wheelchairs, strollers and luggage.
>
>The SEPTA board is set to approve a $925,000 contract for the 3D gates on Thursday, with delivery expected late this year.
>
>Nearly 2,800 fare evasion cases were reported on SEPTA last year — an increase of more than 800 from 2021. Busch said the new gates would more accurately track the number of fare evaders on the system.

Is this number for the pilot program, meaning just the two stations?

So, nearly a million dollars to see if we can claw back roughly $7,000 in stolen subway rides per year?

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bushwhack227 t1_jdg5trf wrote

2800 reported cases. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number is 20x that.

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rndljfry t1_jdhjw3v wrote

the group has decided it's anywhere from 5x-100x. Looks like you're on the generous end lol

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malcolmfairmount t1_jdclmaz wrote

mmm how bout spending some money to get some actual security down there?

the number of people in my life willing to take the subway with me is dwindling

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[deleted] t1_jdd6dbw wrote

[deleted]

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APettyJ OP t1_jdi9914 wrote

Was it replaced? Read in another article same design used by French National Railways.

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Jabroni_Guy t1_jdbmv3s wrote

Would be great. Would keep a lot of the problem riders off.

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dotcom-jillionaire t1_jdcelag wrote

i wish you would step back from that fare evasion, my friend

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babywithahugedick t1_jdcoqws wrote

They'll protect their money before they protect their riders. Fuck SEPTA for this

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QuidProJoe2020 t1_jdcrd3o wrote

Lol ok so one person pays and holds it open.

Gonna see a lot of broken doors. Only way to stop turnstile jumpers is to enforce it or make the gates like the metal ones when you leave the subway.

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sirauron14 t1_jdcfnsy wrote

Waste of money… we need new trains not gates

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maspie_den t1_jdci42m wrote

Those panels will end up shot out within a week.

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Wilts3rdLeg t1_jdd1zyh wrote

I'd rather not crush needles under my shoes every morning , but this is fun investment I suppose

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AG1810 t1_jddfch8 wrote

6 people at a time will bulrush thru

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Gobirds831 t1_jdb5i3p wrote

Lol I don’t think nothing like a quick stop at K&A and some crystal meth will stop, god bless the soul, a homeless person who wants to break through the glass to get in the El

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nalgene_wilder t1_jddj4zx wrote

Yikes, talk about spending a dollar to save a dime. This seems like an extreme waste of resources

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AbsentEmpire t1_jddq351 wrote

The problem with these is that the doors are glass, they'll be busted out within a year.

SEPTA yet again is also contracting with a company with little to no experience and a history of failure to deliver. What SEPTA should be doing is buying NJT gates, they'll be cheaper, and they'll work better.

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APettyJ OP t1_jdi94fu wrote

Apparently this design of gate is being used by SNCF (National Rail Network of France). If it's good enough for the TGV...🤷🏾‍♂️

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FormerHoagie t1_jdfaksx wrote

Yesterday everyone was saying Septa should install new systems to stop fare jumpers. Now most of the posts are either saying it won’t work or it costs too much. No pleasing Reddit

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jwillystyle77 t1_jdfmi89 wrote

Make it free and use the money they don’t spend not picking up trash.

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Darius_Banner t1_jdcbsaz wrote

Just get rid of them and do honor system. The salaries of patrol people will be less than maintaining these, and double as safety patrol. Many metro systems do this effectively.

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mr__moose t1_jdeqz2x wrote

It's already on the honor system, and I feel like a jackass for being honest.

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Diditforthevine69 t1_jdbegv8 wrote

40% of their funding is via the city… they spend so much to get people to pay. I say we just make it free. I honestly think it would save them money.

Id share sources but im lazy and it wont do anything

*regional rail can still charge ig

Edit: source https://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/2016/11/07/who-pays-for-septa/ 40% not most from state

https://whyy.org/articles/ellison-septa-fare-free-opinion/amp/

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Jabroni_Guy t1_jdbqu9s wrote

I’d rather it be safe then free. Monetarily as it relates to the MFL not as a general sentiment lol. Safety is a part of freedom too though

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Diditforthevine69 t1_jdcrfzy wrote

I do not know you but i would assume you are not struggling financially like 23% of our population. There are many who can’t make it to their doctors appointments because they do not have the resources to make it there.

I agree safety is part of freedom. I think we can do both like over 100 cities have already implemented throughout the country.

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wailwoader t1_jdb6loq wrote

How about make public transportation free. No gates at all.

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APettyJ OP t1_jdbaay9 wrote

Still need something to help keep lines safe and clean.

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Diditforthevine69 t1_jdbfvgy wrote

All the costs for trying figure out how people can pay… spend it on safety teams..

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RainbowCrown71 t1_jdbu91u wrote

Los Angeles tried safety teams. Hasn’t worked at all: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-14/horror-the-deadly-use-of-drugs-on-metro-trains

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Diditforthevine69 t1_jdcs8hj wrote

Interesting article. Maybe safety teams is not the answer maybe it is septa police but currently we have things in place to force people to pay. And currently we have an issue with drug use and homelessness on trains. Why is this any different?

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ForeverNick1 t1_jdaxgbc wrote

Leave it to septa to spend millions on what, 10k of lost revenue? What they should do is get their buses to run on time

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APettyJ OP t1_jdaxn03 wrote

Although the article cites fare recovery, this may be more about doing a better job keeping problem users from accessing the system. That could boost safety and cleanliness, and get more people to use the line.

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ForeverNick1 t1_jdb3vdr wrote

If they’re more focused on that then more patrols at main stations such as the Frankford or 8th and Market. I’ve seen more fare hoppers at those stations that anywhere when I was riding

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AbsentEmpire t1_jdczj35 wrote

Or they could install un-jumpable fair gates at all stations to keep the problematics out of the system, and use police to handle keeping them from loitering in the stations and using them as restrooms and drug dens.

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adwvn t1_jdb3lsf wrote

Of course , neoliberals are not fans of comments like this

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markskull t1_jdb6102 wrote

Seriously, I'm with you on this.

Is fare evasion REALLY this prevalent? Has it ever been so bad that we needed this for the subway in the last 20 years? This seems most like a solution looking for a problem rather than an actual fix.

There's no way SEPTA is losing even half of what these things are going to cost over 5 years. This doesn't make me think the system is safer just that I now have to waste more time trying to get through the turnstile.

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AbsentEmpire t1_jddqxma wrote

Yes it's prevalent and blantent. The claimed number is 100% an undercount.

However the bigger issue is not so much the lost fair (which is a problem ), but rather the problems that fair evaders bring onto the system that drivers away more riders compounding the problem and decreasing ridership.

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